Tommy Tallarico told that in an interview.
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Tommy Tallarico told that in an interview.
Were there any games that did ambient musical scores on the Megadrive? That would be something the YM2612 is well suited for, being FM and all. Ecco 2 is the only example I can think of. The title track was spine-chilling.
You're having a laugh right . 1st off I should play system 16 game on here with regards to the SNES and say it doesn't sound like that for real, but hey its ok to post music videos of Mega Drive games right ?.Quote:
Because we all know the Genesis can't do Electric Guitars and Drums well at all.
2) if you think that a Electric Guitars then god help us all.
The Mega Drive just couldn't this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHdWKzfbrk
or this
Yeah all us Elitits boats about own a Mega Drive and a Stereo TV Its living the dream and the high life for sure lol.Quote:
You still sound like an elitist jerk but you probably don't care about it,
Stereo Tv's had a headphone socket too . I know no-one that shells out on a expensive amp only to then use Headphones . So I'll take no lectures off you when it comes to Sound or what it is to be a Mega Drive fans thanksQuote:
Um headphones can benefit from an amp too
No I'm not the one saying who can comment on here or isn't a SEGA fan.Quote:
So are you the one entitled to define what is to be a Sega fan
And you're not nick picking ? I take it irony is beyond you tooQuote:
Or smart enough to nitpick a typo like that while you can barely
Play a Wondermega and hear the difference the Game mode dps mode with make to any Mega Drive and Mega CD game - When it comes to sound in ones Mega CD and Mega Drive games, the Wondermega is in a class of its own and of coruse, it's by far the best looking 16 bit system ever made . And like the real SEGA fan one is, I made sure to buy the SEGA model and not the JVC one;)Quote:
Just like any good stereo will do, but with more options
And we can take you seriously ?Quote:
Rock/Metal is by far one of those.
I can't take TA seriously, he is arguing these things, and it shows he doesn't actually know what he is talking about.
Techno I'll give you that, but Rock isn't Techno and the Mega Drive had a time trying to complete with Snes and Amgia when playing electric Guitars. But by all means post me tech demo from youtube to prove otherwise
Tim Follin doesn't count. The only recording of a Tim Follin song on the MD is off a crappy model 2 and it still sounds great. The guitars sound pretty close to that too.
So we can only compare music done by the same composer on both systems ? .Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Oh Here the MD utterly pathetic try at playing the same track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhUEou4G7oA
Yeah we didn't see much Tim Follin on the MD but there again he wasn't a fan of the chip and both he and Chris Huelsbeck weren't impressed with MS sound hardware in comparison to the Amiga and SNES . Shame as when it came to Techno Chris Huelsbeck was really good. Still at least SEGA fans got to enjoy Tim Follin talent on the DC with his epic work on Ecco
That actually sounds pretty impressive to me (knowing the hardware limitations), only the drums are a little weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And any synth track only sounds good if it plays the strength of the underlying hardware. Compare the tunes of Aladdin in Megadrive vs Amiga, the Amiga versions are godawful. Possibly because the Alan Menken originals had a very high level of polyphony, so a 6+1 channel chip was more suitable than a 4 channel one... but even the original compositions are trash on the Amiga, and the sound sample choices are questionable too.
No, I specifically said Tim Follin. He was a master of every piece of sound hardware he could get his hands on, whatever other composer you compare him to will not be fair. It's like comparing something made by God to something made by the local village idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
This is him on the MD (recorded off a model 2, so it sounds poor, but nobody disagrees the model 2 genesis sounds shitty):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyEbu8cmMg
It sounds freaking amazing.
Both suffer to the Snes version (ok its not the same version) and I really didn't think the MD version of Aladdin sounded great for music (sound effects are better mind) and it kicked both the Snes and Amiga for graphics granted. But me MD ports of Amgia games suffered greatly when it came to sound , rather than the other way around - Games like Desert Strike sounded way better on the Amgia than MD and Amiga ports to the MD like Speedball 2, GODS, Louts II, Xenon II, Cannon Fodder suffered greatly in music dept.Quote:
Compare the tunes of Aladdin in Megadrive vs Amiga, the Amiga
1) Why is ok for you and rest of the system 16 faithful to post videos of Mega Drive and never say it doesn't sound like that for real, unlike the moment any posts a Snes music video ?And yet again a link to a game that never came out , love itQuote:
This is him on the MD (recorded off a model 2, so it sounds poor, but nobody disagrees the model 2 genesis sounds shitty)
2) Yeah the track sounds great Tim Follin is brilliant - You want me to post the interview with him on the Snes and MD sound ?. I have it somewhere and he's not the biggest fan of the MD sound (though hardly a knocker of it ) and said the SNES was way better for sound in his opinion
When the SNES was used right the MD just couldn't compete
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM-4V12JLbk
Yes, Amiga ports to MD were crap, but so were MD ports to Amiga... exactly my point. The best quality games, both visually and audio wise, were the ones intended to be created for said hardware, not ported to it. Aladdin was made for the MD and then ported to Amiga and PC, and surprise surprise, the MD version was the best.
And the SNES version of Aladdin was trash. Yes, a different game by a different company, but regardless of that it was just a trash game.
Sound wise John Madden lost nothing, The likes of Desert Strike (much better sound effects ), Chuck Rock 2 sounded way better on the Amiga for music imo. When it came to Amiga music on the Mega Drive it lost out big timeQuote:
but so were MD ports to Amiga... exactly my point
Because the source of the video has been stated to have been recorded off a model 2. There's a guy with a backup tape of the game, hopefully he'll get in contact with someone about it so they can extract the sound driver (which should be awesome) and the music.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
What game are we talking about? I can do a recording off my Genesis 1 in no time if we just want a better sample.
Anyway, since we're posting bad examples of Genesis guitars:
Most SNES OSTs on youtube are recorded off emulators. Worse yet they are usually recorded off ZSNES or old versions of SNES9x. And Worse yet, those emulators also enhance the audio with better filters than the SNES had. So you end up with a track that sounds cleaner that it does on a real SNES, and sometimes not accurate. Basically poor SNES emulators make the audio sound better than it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Genesis stuff on youtube is a bit different. There seems to be more recorded from real hardware or from soundtrack CDs that came from real hardware. The rest that come from emulation suffer from an opposite effect. Most Genesis emulators sound worse than real hardware. This results in more garbled and scratchy sounding samples, more whiny FM, and sometimes nonexistant PSG.
As for the Dracula Battle in Castlevania 4, that has to be by far the worst final boss theme in the entire series. Where's the Energy? Where's the excitement? You're fighting freaking Dracula in a fight to the death for crying out loud. And the best the composer could come up with was some calm ambient noise? And it still suffers from low quality muffled samples. It doesn't sound like real instruments at all. It instead sounds like a warbly Keyboard under 50 feet of pillows. Thank god we never had that on the Genesis.
Ok. Keep on linking to games that never came out or to tech demo decades latter - Think I'll stick to actual games that came out at the timeQuote:
There's a guy with a backup tape of the game
Okay, well, what about:
Ghouls N Ghosts - Bee(s) 638 KB MP3 - 1989
Musha - Level 5 4705 KB MP3 - 1990
Forgotten Worlds - Level 6 2193 KB MP3 - 1990
Batman - Level 1 2820 KB MP3 - 1990
And you never post links to Emu's running MD games ? like the sytem 16 faithful; In the Batman and Robin MD tread emu shows its hand, but hey that's ok its MD, not the SNES. While some us so called non SEGA fans on the other hand play the 'original' game on the 'actual' HardwareQuote:
Most SNES OSTs on youtube are recorded off emulators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgIbbh4-lk
It's coming to the stage where I'll have to pull my SNES out for attic and start uploading vids
Speaking of which here some great samples on a MD game and not a emu or ROM in sight
? I've already said I like the music in Ghost N Ghouls better than the Arcade and Snes spin off . Like the music in Musha and FW too , think the music in Batman isn't that hot myself .Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
And while is lost out a bit with Amgia I love the MD version of the Battle Squadron music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCfuJXowCww
As I said, there are more real hardware videos on youtube for Genesis tracks. There's also the fact that most Genesis emulators make games sound worse than they do on real hardware. They don't enhance the audio, if anything they make it worse. SNES emulators enhance the audio. So those SNES emulator recordings are giving a false impression of SNES audio. It makes it sound cleaner and crisper than it really is. It hides the flaws and only shows the good. Genesis emulators tend to have the opposite effect. They make the flaws more pronounced and hide the good. If you notice, when people post a very bad emulator recording of a Genesis track, people jump up and point this out as well. Some of the better Genesis emulators like Fusion though do sound acceptable. The only acceptable SNES emulators for sound that I know of are bSNES and the latest version of SNES9x. Unfortunately most SNES emulator recordings on youtube are using ZSNES or old versions of SNES9x.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You seem to be taking things here out of context and severely twisting them to the point of being ridiculous. No one here said anything about playing a game on an emulator using roms made you a better Sega fan. That's your stupid mind twisting comments about the Everdrive and bad SNES emulators.
Can't believe people don't post this track more often...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iknefj-NY3I
Absolutely wails, and piddles over the Snes version from a great height, the Megadrive Urban Strike ver. sounds more polished than Desert & Jungle Strike to my ears, sounds like they hit the sweet spot with emulating Guitar distortion.
I will admit however the SNES version should have sounded better, and seems like a half arsed job in comparison.
But as a guitarist I much prefer the Megadrive's Guitar snyth tones, so much more gnarly sounding. Sounds close to that nasty garage band guitar sound like The Stooges.
SNES ver. for comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCDIX9rrW5U
You were making examples of symphonic/ambient tracks and tracks wit guitars as the main instrument. These were all production level games on the Genesis/MD that do a great job with the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Oh please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And yes, I brought in a completely unofficial cover. Bringing it into this because the YM2612 and TI PSG can without a doubt, truly pull this off.
And knowing that we all know the YM2612's DAC can sound far less muffled than the SPC on the SNES, those drum samples do sound far more edgy on the YM2612.
I brought this into the equation because you wanted to compare original games for both consoles, but SF was never on the Genesis, and thus you tried an unfair comparison, so I brought this comeback. I'd love to see TmEE basically port that song and then we can run it on REAL hardware.
That's fan made so it's powered by magical faerie unicorns that have nothing to do with the Megadrive, obviously.
So is Pier Solar, and that has a lot of great music. ;)
The problem here seems to be your ignorance on the subject in general. The track you are talking about here was the one and only example of a Mega Drive tune by Tim Follin, the very same composer of a SNES tune you linked to a page earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Like already has been mentioned: Even if you do not agree with other people's opinions, there are indeed some facts that are not up for debate - i.e. real hardware sounds better than emulation when it comes to MD, vice versa for SNES (due to it being PCM based, not FM based). Model 2 MD sounds awful due to its mixing circuit, i.e. hardware issues introduced when redesigning the MD's audio hardware.
A fair comparison compares real hardware only, preferably MD1 vs SNES.
PS: I would agree to the following statement: SNES is more pleasant to the ears on average (at least for Western developed software), MD is better in its theoretical possibilities (having three different types of sound generators vs one).
Personally I think that basically everything that's just slightly above mediocrity on MD wipes the floor with the better, even the best stuff on SNES.
What a load of excuses and a little rich from that loves to use emu vids when it suits , not least when it comes to Saturn . Btw I don't use emu for my SEGA stuff mate, for the last time !Quote:
It hides the flaws and only shows the good. Genesis emulators tend to have the opposite effect. They make the flaws more pronounced and hide the good. If you notice, when people post a very bad emulator
LOL. Looking how it sounds poor in comparison (the 2nd stage sounds like a Master system game) , I should point out and say it doesn't sound like that for real . How about posting videos on real Mega Drive games running on actual Hardware .Quote:
Oh please.
When it came to Electronic guitars and drum samples the MD suffered in comparison to the Snes and Amiga imo.Quote:
You were making examples of symphonic/ambient tracks and tracks wit guitars as the main instrument
Funny they both sound like pish to me . How about you post a vid of Desert Strike running on the MD, Amgia and Snes and still try and make out the MD versions sound bestQuote:
sounds more polished than Desert & Jungle Strike to my ears
TA - Anti FM, Pro DSP.
Electric guitars on SNES? LOL! They sound more like an electric buzzing sound more than a guitar. The MD can at least sound more than that, even though it doesn't like an electric guitar itself.
It's not a load of excuses TA, it's a cold hard fact with Emulation. FM Synth is harder to emulate than ADPCM. Throw in that an emulator on a PC can use hardware to further enhance ADPCM and it's pretty clear that an SNES emulator will benefit from enhancements that PC offers and FM Synth emulation will suffer.
As for Emulation, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I prefer emulation, I never said I love to use emulation videos, nor did I accuse you of using emulation. Where emulation came up was when you posted a video of an SNES tune that was clearly enhanced by emulation. I typically try to use real hardware videos if I can. If I have to use an emulator video, I try to make sure it's one that's at least accurate.
Also, I might as well just slip this in right here:
One thing to remember is that people have different preferences/tastes in music, and that can influence what they think of the sound from old consoles. For example, I prefer wavetable music to FM synth, mainly because synthesized music just doesn't do it for me. So even if the samples are low rate and filtered, I still like them better because they sound "real" as opposed to synthetic. That's just my taste. That's why I spend no time at all on FM music on the MD and all my time on tracker music on the 32X - I like that kind of music better. Because of that, I think the music IN GENERAL on the SNES better because it uses the kind of music I prefer - wavetable tracker music. Now I do like many songs from MD games, but in general, I don't care for FM music, so I don't care for much of the MD music... again, IN GENERAL. There are always specific examples of exceptions for any rule.
But don't you know? TA's opinion is fact!
I have stated once in this thread already it's all matter of opinion, and in my opinion I like FM music better.
And this wasn't really an FM vs PCM debate to begin with. It was TA claiming that the Genesis sucks at doing PCM, which isn't really true.
You know, the big difference between MD and SNES tunes in general is that SNES sound is very soft, so much that it becomes muddy, while MD uses sharp, loud sounds, almost too sharp and loud (except for the tracks where the musicians didn't bother to figure out their own instruments, there it just sounds primitive).
And again, a well-made FM music completely trashes 99% of everything on the SNES. Alisia Dragoon and Streets of Rage 2 practically destroy the entire SNES library music wise.
MEANWHILE ON THE PC IN 1992Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTwtyjepPo
Pure FM sound, sounds 10x better than almost anything on the SNES.
This is what the MD really sounds like (all real model 1 hardware):
Sounds substantially better than emulation. Only TA could reach the conclusion that drums are better on the SNES.
In response to a few pages back, Tim Follin didn't write the music for ANY MD games, except that one unused track from Time Trax. That was it.
In response to MD guitars not being good, I've made some of my own guitars for it, and I've recieved a lot of compliments about them.
Here is two examples. Also, I only used drums that were used in official MD games.