Also, just to pwn TA for good, here's a Sonic 1 rom hack with a full PCM soundtrack running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0524ZyEm-I
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Also, just to pwn TA for good, here's a Sonic 1 rom hack with a full PCM soundtrack running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0524ZyEm-I
Silly Kamahl. Clearly that rom hack is not a real game and is cheating. Besides look, the Genesis is using all it's power to play that PCM music and now it can no longer draw the graphics and colors for Green Hill Zone!
In my opinion,nothing on the SNES touches what Sakimoto did with the Terpsichore driver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K82jkjCAgkgQuote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Touche
A farty trumpet vs synth guitar, that actually has vibrato and sustain like a real guitar.
No, SNES version still sounds shite.
Amiga one is pretty rad though, but its an entirely different arrangement.
And Amiga...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcJaph0D7UM
Wow, they kept that ROM size down below 32mbit (4Mbyte). That's freaking cool, I should try to load it up on the everdrive and see how it plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Here is the original tracks according to the Jester's Challenge download page.
Quote:
- Param Zone = Remix of DJ Ron - Dangerous (Cannan Land)
- Param Zone ICE = Toshio Shimizu and Tate Norio (Yasuo Yamate) - Last Resort (The Melting Pot)
- Invincible = Remix of Ultraworld - Northern Piano (Hardcore Piano Mix)
- Boss Theme = Tweaker - made exclusively for this hack
- Credits Theme = Unknown author - Fantazia 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raijin
Awesome, thanks for posting those links too. I was wondering if we needed a real hardware recording of the Tim Follin track from Time Trax.
I wouldn't put anything EA up for music awards on the Genesis. Yeah, the Amiga one blows them both away by the sounds of it. But wow does the SNES version stink it up. And what is it with SNES instruments that sound like they go off key at random points. Mortal Kombat II SNES does this too and seems like nobody notices.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC 15
Yeah I agree, the drums aren't very strong in those EA compositions, and the Amiga version is excellent technically though a little bit generic early house 90's sounding, nothing I haven't heard before after hearing loads of of Atari/Amiga cracks and warez.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
My main point was the guitar parts always sound more punchy.
FM instruments always have greater depth and clarity than samples in this generation. There's just no way around it, the ideal would have been to combine a sample processor with an FM processor from the time not one or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC 15
I liked amiga tunes in 90's but today the poor quality really hurts... if the composition are still awesome the low rate samples are just rubbish (as they are on SNES). This is the advantage of FM sound which generates sound at very high rate (53 Khz for the genesis's YM2612) and deliver very clean sound.
On this video they compare Mega Turrican soundtrack versus Turrican 3 ones :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAW1B3A_m_s
IMO the Mega Turrican soundtrack are far superior...
TA will just go :blah::blah: :blah: to all of this.
SNES electric guitar solo ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMoT4cWdFgc&feature=relmfu
Those sound like the bastard love children of Electric Guitars, Midi Trumpets, and Kazoos.
The biggest problem I have with some samples on the SNES is that some sounds lack the right timbre.
I thought the different between the Genesis and SNES in sound is that Genesis/MD/System16 uses a Yahama FM Sound chip which is actually the main CPU of the Mark III/Master System/System E while SNES used a custom PCM chip designed by Sony(which was the sole OEM for Super NES).
I personally would say, most Genesis games had better soundtracks. The MIDI quality was low key but just sounded more creative.
FACT: Super NES/Super F's main CPU was actually the proccessor of the Apple IIGS. It's a modified build designed and licensed by Sony.
http://placar.abril.com.br/wp-conten...ng-reuters.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
http://files.diadu.net/pictures/reac...1358747132.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
This..............is..................so.......... .....cool!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
That's it, the PCM on the MD wins.. New or old game, the hardware is still the same.
FM was a great idea, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
I think you got it backwards 'cause most of the powerful 16-bit arcade machines and high-end 16-bit computers (like the X68000) used FM-based sound systems.
Again, this a pure bs-Nintendo concept since all others were going in a different direction and, thankfully, without so much slowdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakon
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
This is what actually kills the SNES sound to me. No high frequencies == poor sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Yeah, Genesis Samurai Shodown has better voices and sfx than the Sega CD version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
The Ricoh chip sounds great when you use just a few samples though... Like in Snatcher, Space Adventure and Wing Commander when it's combined with the FM chip and it's used mostly for drums/percussion.
No, no... There's no need to nitpick since you give us tons of crap every time you post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I think you meant "DSP".Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The game mode works just like a stereo expander; today, many stereos have a similar function called "surround".
You don't have any settings there; it's a very simple DSP... Nothing special. Oh, well, you can add some "extra" bass but, again, no level adjustment.
No equalization settings either... IDK why you're talking about it like a magic audio system 'cause it's pretty basic stuff.
You really don't look like a "sound aficionado".
There's a lot of factors playing a more important role when you talk about audio in a gaming setup...
-Your stereo TV speakers probably don't hold a candle to sheath's old Pro-Logic setup, for an example. So you're probably missing a lot of frequencies and adding distortion to the audio so, probably, sheath has a better sounding setup using a cheap Genesis model 1 than you using the super expensive WonderMega.
-To use the same equalization for all games just makes no sense if you're a "sound aficionado". Any good stereo with an equalizer (fully adjustable or using several presets) will deliver better options to adjust the sound of the games than your WonderMega's DSP.
-The use of a subwoofer is much more effective to improve the low frequencies than, let's say, the "EX-Bass" button of your WonderMega.
-Despite bells and whistles, your WonderMega lacks a feature that my cheap MD model 1 + MCD model 2 setup has: I can adjust the volume of the MD sound independently, which is very useful for games like Space Adventure (where the music is just too loud during dialogues) and Lords of Thunder (where the FM sfx are too loud compared to the CDDA music volume).
...
Seriously, when I saw you eating evildragon's heart due to his mono TV I supposed that you would show us a setup using some vacuum tube amps/speakers or a proper equalizer like a Kenwood GE-7030 plugged in a good amplifier using some advanced DSP...
But, no, you just praised you stereo TV and your very simple WonderMega's DSP.
I really expected more from "the real SEGA fan".
Which Speedball 2 version are you talking about? 'Cause the Genesis version uses a shitty audio driver while the MD version (JP/EU) uses a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The intro music sounds a lot better on the MD version than on the Amiga IMO. Also, the MD version gives you the option to have music + sfx in game, unlike the Amiga version.
Legend of Galahad has music + sfx on the MD while Leander, on the Amiga, doesn't. It just sucks to play a platformer without sfx or music.
It's not always true.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
Alien 3 is better on the MD, both music and graphics; for an example.
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=701Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
System 16/Mega Drive Sound CPU: Z80 "Zilcon" 4 Mhz.
Mark III/Master System main CPU: Z80 "Zilcon" 8 MHZ.
Super NES's CPU:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_5A22
Rico.....Suave!
Um, z80 in master system is not 8mhz.
And the CPU is called zilog, not zilcon.
The Master System/Mark III CPU has a slower run and less memory than its Arcade Cousin System E, but the CPU is exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
Z80 was a popluar homebrew CPU used frequently during the 80s.
"Z80 was often used in coin-operated arcade games,[10] and was commonly used as the main CPU, sound or video coprocessors. Pac-Man arcade games feature a single Z80 as the main CPU.[55][56] Galaxian and arcade games such as King & Balloon and Check Man that use the Namco Galaxian boardset also use a Z80 as the main CPU.[57] Other Namco licensed arcade games such as Galaga and other games that use the Namco Galaga boardset such as Bosconian, Dig Dug, Xevious, and Super Xevious use three Z80 microprocessors running in parallel for the main CPU, graphics, and sound.[58]
It was also found in home video game consoles such as the ColecoVision,[59] Sega Master System[60] and Sega Game Gear video game consoles, as an audio co-processor in the Sega Mega Drive and as an audio controller and co-processor to the Motorola 68000 in the SNK Neo-Geo."
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
You said "Yahama" and it's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
You said: "Zilcon" and it's wrong.
You said: "It's a modified build designed and licensed by Sony" and it's wrong.
You said: "8Mhz" and it's wrong.
You're referring to the Genesis soundtracks as MIDI stuff and it makes no sense.
You're saying Yamaha YM2612 is the main CPU of the Sega Master system and you're wrong.
You're suggesting that Z80 and Yamaha YM2612 are the same thing and you're wrong.
You're suggesting that "Zilcon" and "Yahama" are the same thing and you're wrong.
You're pasting wikipedia content in a thread that was supposed to be a technical discussion; it doesn't sound good.
So, uh, maybe you should say something like: "I'm sorry.".
Dude I know what a z80 is. And you're still talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
It isn't an early game track, but this sure does a damn fine job demonstrating the superiority of FM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26La7kaZY7s
Here's a simple thing. How about you post a video or a link to a actual Mega Drive game released at retail at the time the Mega Drive was a going concern , That's only the only fair comparison one can do, since we're only comparing it to SNES games available at the time , or is fairness beyond this board too ?Quote:
Also, just to pwn TA for good, here's a Sonic 1 rom hack with a full PCM soundtrack running:
Nothing touch just pointing out the fact that the Snes and Amgia games sounded better with higher quality effects and better music , unlike most Amgia to Mega Drive games were the MD came out a 2nd best when it came to sound samples and music .Quote:
A farty trumpet vs synth guitar, that actually has vibrato and sustain like a real guitar
More like it . I agree Alien 3 and SOR sound brilliant and play to the MD strengths. Mega Drive was good at Techno, no really good for rock though .Quote:
This is what the MD really sounds like
Brining the PC into now ?, what that's fair . Back in 1992 I was playing this , much better music imo and no need for a £1000 PCQuote:
MEANWHILE ON THE PC IN 1992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH_RyuehxiQ
Of course its true, when it had to handle more than 1 channel - It would lose out , unless you can post a video of a actual Mega Drive that did well when the need came it for multi PCM samples .Quote:
It was TA claiming that the Genesis sucks at doing PCM, which isn't really true
Christ is someone was do the same with the Mega Drive or the Saturn you'll have to say . When it came to sound the MD lost out to thisQuote:
Also, I might as well just slip this in right here:
It doesn't matter if it came out at retail or not. The YM2612 didn't just sprout new DAC capabilities over night, just because a Everdrive was mated to it or something.
And that clip does quite well, demonstrate the PCM capabilities. It's the same hardware then, and the same hardware. What came out in software then doesn't mean anything. Just because people didn't program it right, we're supposed to hold that against an entire console? Fuck no!
ROCK ON SEGA!
How many times will people have to show you that the Genesis CAN do multi PCM fine, and how many times will I have to say to you, that Alien Soldier does 2 channel PCM and sounds good enough? Your standards of quality is way too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Enough of the multi PCM talk, just take it for what it is; the Genesis can do multi PCM and sound good if programmed correctly. This much should be obvious to anyone. Understand that if companies back then gave a damn about spending money to needlessly have higher quality PCM, they would I'm sure, but get it through your head, developers didn't care about that, especially at the expense of their money.
Oh, and by the way, yeah, that track from Super Metroid there could sound just fine on the Genesis, in fact, in my opinion it sound just as good. Thanks to GeckoYamori for that by the way.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMsrHCFXj0&t=4m14s
I'm done feeding the troll from this point forward. If anyone else wants to feed the troll too, then godspeed.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nwm2aQBjct...600/debate.jpg
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
What is this fine ?. It does it ok , but compared to SNES and Amiga it loses out and no I don't think the music or sound effects in Treasure Mega Drive games are that hot tbh- not compared the games they helped to make on the Snes with regards to Contra III, Axleay and Super CastlevaniaQuote:
CAN do multi PCM fine, and how many times will I have to say to you, that Alien Soldier does 2 channel PCM and sounds good enough
Of course it does , if you want to be fair and equal about it . Its funny this board screams blue murder when linking to a Snes game, but has no trouble linking to tech demos of Mega Drive games and the best part is those tech demo's are only doing what the Snes did in the 1991/2 decades latter and they still can't match the Snes for quality .Quote:
It doesn't matter if it came out at retail or not
And the Snes can do action games if programmed correctly, but NCL made it hardwork with a limiting CPU in just the same way SEGA made it hard for samples with its Mega Drive Sound board . Compare Mega CD games to Mega Drive games - Games like Fifa, Pitfall , Sensible Soccer, Bill Walsh college football benefit greatly from massively improved sound effects (not CD music) thanks to the Mega CD PCM chip and those were pretty standard ports and just showed what a difference a more capable chip can do for samples and just look at SEGA Arcades boards did they no use PCM sound chips - but listen to this board FM was the way to go, even in the 90's :pQuote:
Enough of the multi PCM talk, just take it for what it is; the Genesis can do multi PCM and sound good if programmed correctly
If core had never made scaling games for the sega cd, TA would be one of the many who claim that it added nothing but cd audio.
The art of debate , coming from you the 'mono' partisan American ? Irony at its peak I must say . The art of debate is to allows free speech, even if you happen not to share those views , But go back to your ROMS, mono TV and Fox News ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by evildragon
The Mega CD also added a PCM soundchip, CPU - Thought why SEGA added Scaling/Rotation support, CPU and a new Soundchip to Mega CD when this board knows better is quite beyond me .Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
No one here is stopping you from posting SNES tech demos. No one screamed at you for posting a video of an SNES game. We merely pointed out that the ones you posted were from inaccurate emulators that enhance the audio. On a real SNES it would sound worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
[/facepalm]Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSega
I don't think you need to be quoting anything from Wikipedia here, most of the people here know the hardware inside and out. Shouldn't you be researching about your Sega orbi or something?
I don't do it for the Saturn or the Mega CD or DC - I only post videos of actual finished games - Games where they have to run on retail hardware, need to handle and worry about player input and Cart/storage limits ect.. and more importantly where anyone can buy and experience them so they can see/hear and compare it for their self's . The only true and fair way to do it and anyone should be able to understand thatQuote:
No one here is stopping you from posting SNES tech demos
Now by all mean post back with videos of good Mega Drive music and samples I'm all for that and I really don't care if they emu links ( I like to see and hear good Mega Drive games) . Just please if you can keep it to actual games that were out at Retail and at the same time of the SNES or Amiga .
Here is some of the class stuff the Amiga could so
Homebrew is still running on real hardware. The Ever Drive just acts as a blank cartridge to put it on. It's not adding any hardware. It's still the same retail hardware that was available in 1988. The Z80 Sound Drivers people like TmEE write are 100% applicable to a real game situation. They are running 100% on the Z80, so there is absolutely no affect on the main CPU and in game performance. And the Cart size issue isn't an issue in this. Those tech demos are all well within the 4MB cart size limit.
This is what you don't seem to be getting here, you are saying homebrew is unfair because it doesn't take real game application into consideration. But what we are telling you is that the ones we are bringing up do in fact take that into consideration and can be used in a real game situation. The only one that wouldn't really work is the Wav Player.
On a somewhat related note I wonder how well the Genesis could handle playing the MOD file that the Atari ST version of Turrican II uses for the intro:
Howbrew is done decades latter in a lot of cases and if we were comparing Snes Homebrew to Mega Drive ones then it would be fair but we not and to me that's not fair at all. I rather compare like for like and to me that means Mega Drive games and Snes games out at the time of the machines were a going concern and were developers were working with the constraints and tools around at the time - That to me is fair and squareQuote:
Homebrew is still running on real hardware.
Why can't you hit back with Mega Drive games around at time, why do always have to run to Howbrew to try and prove a point ? That to me on its own is telling
Would just like to point out that the OP seemed to be interested in the question of System hardware pros and cons for purposes of homebrew programming. As long as they show what the given system can do running on unmodified hardware, he'd probably be OK with tech demos (regardless if those come from Genesis/MD or the SNES).
Just an observation.
Repped for basically owning TA for saying that. Since the OP didn't care, then his nonsense is now basically moot.. Yes! :owned:Quote:
Originally Posted by Armoured Priest