GameTrailers Top 10 First-Person Shooters of all time

Sure, graphically it hasn't aged well but back in 1997 there was nothing like it. Quake was just a Doom Clone with a real 3D engine. Yes, it was a great game. But Goldeneye was a much more advanced game overall. I agree that it hasn't aged well though and that's why they should make a remake similar to Perfect Dark XBLA.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Sure, graphically it hasn't aged well but back in 1997 there was nothing like it.

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Me thinks you didn't play much PC in 1997.

I can remember some of my friends with N64s going bonkers over Goldeneye when it came out. I took a look at it, played it for a bit, and let my friends keep playing while I watched knowing that there were better FPS games on the PC.

Christuserloeser's Top 10 First-Person Shooters of all time

would probably look like this:
11. Wolfenstein 3D (32X)
10. Quake III Arena (Dreamcast)
9. Quake (N64)
8. Quake DC (Dreamcast)
7. Doom (PS1)
6. Doom 64 (N64)
5. Wolfenstein 3D (Jaguar)
4. Doom 2 (PC)
3. Quake (PC)
2. Doom (PC)
1. Wolfenstein 3D (PC)

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Originally Posted by Breetai

Me thinks you didn't play much PC in 1997.

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You think wrong. I played almost every major PC FPS before Goldeneye. Wolf3D, Doom, Duke 3D, Blood, Quake, Turok (that was both N64 and PC)... all great games.

But its the Sniper rifle, the non-linear mission objectives, the existence of an AI (not great but better than nothing and good for the time), the fact that you could hit every different part of the body (with different results, introducing headshots), the realistic level design, the introduction of proper stealth in the genre and tons of little details like silencers, CCTV cameras that alerted enemies, the most detailed hit-box ever, the way you could control the weapon and crosshair independently from the camera and even vehicles (you could drive a tank at some point), that made Goldeneye special in 1997. Oh and lets not forget real dual analog controls.

If you could do all this things together in PC FPS games before Goldeneye, then i will admit defeat and stop defending it.

While i agree about most of the above points, and that Golden Eye was quite unique back then, I personally never enjoyed it. I admit a good part of this is the controls, To this day i still cannot get myself to play a FPS with a controller. Feels totally awkward.
Back then when it was the awesome new thing, i remember thinking how i thought it sucked, and my opinion has not really changed. I always preferred the more old school FPS. A shame they dont make them like that anymore. ( to a few exception )
I understand why golden eye should be in that list, but seriously #1 feels to me like an insult, especially with DooM #9....

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Originally Posted by Soulis

You think wrong. I played almost every major PC FPS before Goldeneye. Wolf3D, Doom, Duke 3D, Blood, Quake, Turok (that was both N64 and PC)... all great games.

But its the Sniper rifle, the non-linear mission objectives, the existence of an AI (not great but better than nothing and good for the time), the fact that you could hit every different part of the body (with different results, introducing headshots), the realistic level design, the introduction of proper stealth in the genre and tons of little details like silencers, CCTV cameras that alerted enemies, the most detailed hit-box ever, the way you could control the weapon and crosshair independently from the camera and even vehicles (you could drive a tank at some point), that made Goldeneye special in 1997. Oh and lets not forget real dual analog controls.

If you could do all this things together in PC FPS games before Goldeneye, then i will admit defeat and stop defending it.

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Headshots and stuff were in Team Fortress; before Goldeneye came out. AI was, of course, in various games before Goldeneye. Non-linear missions were in System Shock in 1994 (you could include Daggerfall here as well, if you want to count it as an FPS). 'Realistic' level designs were in tons of games before Goldeneye. Proper stealth? Haha, I have no idea. CCTV cameras were in Duke 3D and were interactive. Weapon and crosshair being independent of the camera were in prior games; I think Quake II. I forget if the first Quake did that. Keyboard/mouse>dual analog controller.

So, there you go, pretty much everything Goldeneye did was done elsewhere. I don't know every example, but I'm pretty sure you could find them with some research and others chiming in.

Goldeneye was the first to put it all together on a home console. :)

And after all that, I'm really not much of an FPS guy. :D

The CCTV cameras in Duke 3D weren't alerting enemies. Weapons (and the camera) and crosshair weren't independent in Quake games (also Quake 2 came after Goldeneye). System Shock 1 counts as an FPS? Dunno... i'd say its less FPS than Metroid Prime is. The keyboard vs Dual analog doesn't counter the fact that Goldeneye was the first FPS that had dual analog in console FPS genre. I will agree about the rest and i will also add that Goldeneye wasn't the first game that had a sniper rifle but it was the first FPS that used it in the way all shooters use it since.

And like you just said, all these things together into 1 game right? That was exactly the reason why Goldeneye was so good. Because it didn't have just one different feature/gimmick to rely on. It had tons of features/little stuff that it successfully combined. And there are many other features this game had that i didn't mention in my previous post...

I used to be an FPS guy. I don't care about FPS games today though because of their linear/hand holding fashion.:shame:

How did Goldeneye have Dual Analog?

Another for the list is Dark Forces. That was mega-cool.

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Originally Posted by sheath

How did Goldeneye have Dual Analog?

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Goldeneye has a ton of different control options, including one which lets you use two N64 controllers at once for dual analogue, the N64 controller's weird versatility is what makes it possible, the controllers can be held in a multitude of ways.

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Originally Posted by Thenewguy

Goldeneye has a ton of different control options, including one which lets you use two N64 controllers at once for dual analogue, the N64 controller's weird versatility is what makes it possible, the controllers can be held in a multitude of ways.

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Wow, that seems cumbersome. The only way I can figure that would work would only allow the Z trigger to be pressed. I guess you have to sit one controller down to change weapons. Digital movement buttons are perfectly in line with typical (superior?) PC FPS controls, so I really don't see the point of dual analog for FPS. I can even play Battlefield 2 with a Dreamcast gamepad and a keyboard nearby about as well as I can play it with a Mouse/KB or 360 Pad, which is not highly competitive in any case.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Wow, that seems cumbersome. The only way I can figure that would work would only allow the Z trigger to be pressed. I guess you have to sit one controller down to change weapons. Digital movement buttons are perfectly in line with typical (superior?) PC FPS controls, so I really don't see the point of dual analog for FPS.

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It isn't perfect, and I agree about the analogue movement not really being that required (I don't know about anyone else, but I'm always running at full speed in most fps' anyway, I don't remember any occasions were I needed to creep forwards slowly), but its not really that cumbersome to be honest, at least not for me, I can easily reach the A button whilst holding the controller from the middle handle (just checked).

Yeah, if one of the face buttons can be hit on both controllers that ought to be just about enough to cycle weapons, shoot and jump. Does Goldeneye make you reload?

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Originally Posted by sheath

Yeah, if one of the face buttons can be hit on both controllers that ought to be just about enough to cycle weapons, shoot and jump. Does Goldeneye make you reload?

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Reloading might be a problem for some people, I'm ok as I can reach the B button with my left thumb, but my thumbs are pretty long to be honest, cycling through weapons reload them too, but that would be less than optimal.

I actually prefer using the normal Turok/Dreamcast set-up anyway :)

Though that might just be due to me not used to having my hands free.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

You think wrong. I played almost every major PC FPS before Goldeneye. Wolf3D, Doom, Duke 3D, Blood, Quake, Turok (that was both N64 and PC)... all great games.

But its the Sniper rifle, the non-linear mission objectives, the existence of an AI (not great but better than nothing and good for the time), the fact that you could hit every different part of the body (with different results, introducing headshots), the realistic level design, the introduction of proper stealth in the genre and tons of little details like silencers, CCTV cameras that alerted enemies, the most detailed hit-box ever, the way you could control the weapon and crosshair independently from the camera and even vehicles (you could drive a tank at some point), that made Goldeneye special in 1997. Oh and lets not forget real dual analog controls.

If you could do all this things together in PC FPS games before Goldeneye, then i will admit defeat and stop defending it.

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Turok was never a major PC FPS, to begin with (smells like someone who was introduced to gaming by the N64)...

Along with all those "wonders" you listed, you forgot to mention the very slow movement (just compare it to the other FPS of the same era), low framerate, horrible fog and the annoying/lame health screen which appears when you get hit.

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Originally Posted by Breetai

Headshots and stuff were in Team Fortress; before Goldeneye came out. AI was, of course, in various games before Goldeneye. Non-linear missions were in System Shock in 1994 (you could include Daggerfall here as well, if you want to count it as an FPS). 'Realistic' level designs were in tons of games before Goldeneye. Proper stealth? Haha, I have no idea. CCTV cameras were in Duke 3D and were interactive. Weapon and crosshair being independent of the camera were in prior games; I think Quake II. I forget if the first Quake did that. Keyboard/mouse>dual analog controller.

So, there you go, pretty much everything Goldeneye did was done elsewhere. I don't know every example, but I'm pretty sure you could find them with some research and others chiming in.

Goldeneye was the first to put it all together on a home console. :)

And after all that, I'm really not much of an FPS guy. :D

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Thanks for this post... I thought I was on drugs before reading this.
Rep'ed.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

The keyboard vs Dual analog doesn't counter the fact that Goldeneye was the first FPS that had dual analog in console FPS genre.

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Fact: Descent, on the PS1, had dual analog support using one single controller in early 1996; Goldeneye was released in August 1997. Descent Maximum also offers dual analog support and precedes Goldeneye's release.

On top of that, you'll have a hard time trying to open doors and access the inventory with two controllers in Goldeneye.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I will agree about the rest and i will also add that Goldeneye wasn't the first game that had a sniper rifle but it was the first FPS that used it in the way all shooters use it since.

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You ignored what Breetai said and/or you never played Team Fortress and/or you think Team Fortress isn't a FPS...

Team Fortress (running on Quake engine), released in August 1996:

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Originally Posted by sheath

How did Goldeneye have Dual Analog?

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"Ok, here's how it's done.

Goldeneye:

Plug in second controller to second port. Start game, then pause and go to controls. Go past 1.4 and you'll see 2.1 and 2.2 and etc. This allows you to use both controllers. The only difference between 2.1 and 2.2 and etc, is what the joysticks and Z button does. The Z buttons alternates between firing and aiming. The joysticks alternate between looking and moving. It's weird at first, but soon it becomes easy.

Perfect Dark:

Same thing, but do it on the menu screen. I do not think it works on challenge mode since it is two-player enabled. This only works on single player modes (this needs further testing).

Robotron 64:

Very easy. Have second controller plugged in, and enter game. It plays just like a normal space shooting game. Controller 1 moves, controller 2 fires. Multiplayer dual analog does work. You just need 4 controllers in all.

Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer:

I couldn't get this to work. It's been verified this does work, but I couldn't get it working myself. Might be issues with emu.

I did make a video with the things I tried. I'll post it soon for anybody interested."

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Another for the list is Dark Forces. That was mega-cool.

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This.

Shogo was also surely better than several games in that list.