Best graphic of the 16 bit era..

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

They haven't "proved" anything - they posted nothing on 94, and the 95 numbers exclude the summer and fall figures. Why? Because if you had the summer and fall figures for 94 and 95, you'd see the Genesis and SNES figures posted for winter/spring 95 ARE INDEED POOR FIGURES.

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Keep changing bullshit around to sound like you're right. You said that the 32X performed poorly in the winter and spring of the following year, because nobody buys consoles during that time period. The sales charts clearly showed that the SNES and Genesis were capable of moving over 250,000 units within 2 months in 1994 and in 1995. If anyone gave a shit about the 32X, it should have sold at least 50k a month, during that same time period, but it couldn't even muster 30k.

Anyone that thought the 32X was going to be a raging success, was clearly in denial. Even the better supported Sega CD only managed to sell several million units world-wide.

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I'm just going to quit reading this thread... too many fanboy posts that don't prove anything more than the fact that they're fanbois.

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Fanboy of what? Facts?

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Originally Posted by sheath

Alright then. So, holiday season 1994 it was "clear" that the Jaguar wasn't going to make it. Do you think the 32X's fairly successful launch had anything to do with that?

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I'm pretty sure that the shitty library of games had more to do with the demise of the Jaguar, than the 32X. As a fan of Atari, even I didn't get one until I could get a cheap bundle and the games at a discount.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Keep changing bullshit around to sound like you're right. You said that the 32X performed poorly in the winter and spring of the following year, because nobody buys consoles during that time period. The sales charts clearly showed that the SNES and Genesis were capable of moving over 250,000 units within 2 months in 1994 and in 1995. If anyone gave a shit about the 32X, it should have sold at least 50k a month, during that same time period, but it couldn't even muster 30k.

Anyone that thought the 32X was going to be a raging success, was clearly in denial. Even the better supported Sega CD only managed to sell several million units world-wide.

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We don't know several things. Was the Japanese Saturn launch preventing more SH-2s from being allocated to making more 32X units? Did that contribute to a post launch shortage of 32X units that is absolutely common to the game industry? Did the early Western Saturn crush any chances of the 32X being sold as a Genesis peripheral? The world may never know with discussions like these as the dominant platform.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I'm pretty sure that the shitty library of games had more to do with the demise of the Jaguar, than the 32X. As a fan of Atari, even I didn't get one until I could get a cheap bundle and the games at a discount.

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I actually chose between the Jaguar and 32X November of 1994 and I know I am not alone. The Jaguar seemed technically superior, but the 32X didn't require any extra controllers to be purchased and was significantly cheaper besides. Also, unlike many actual console launches, the 32X had games at launch that I wanted to play and were either exclusive or best for the add-on.

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I'm just going to quit reading this thread... too many fanboy posts that don't prove anything more than the fact that they're fanbois.

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Ah, now, don't be like that. There's a simple solution that will allow you to keep reading this thread without subjecting yourself to fanboy posts: stop reading your own. Try instead reading gamevet's, j_factor's, Thenewguy's, or mine.
:D

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Originally Posted by sheath

We don't know several things. Was the Japanese Saturn launch preventing more SH-2s from being allocated to making more 32X units? Did that contribute to a post launch shortage of 32X units that is absolutely common to the game industry? Did the early Western Saturn crush any chances of the 32X being sold as a Genesis peripheral? The world may never know with discussions like these as the dominant platform.

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It was claimed that the remaining 150k of 32X units were shipped in the winter of 95. Sega had said that they would sell 600,000 32X units during the 1994 holiday season, but were 100K short in supply. If those 100-150K units were indeed shipped in late January of 1995, the point is kind of moot.

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I actually chose between the Jaguar and 32X November of 1994 and I know I am not alone. The Jaguar seemed technically superior, but the 32X didn't require any extra controllers to be purchased and was significantly cheaper besides. Also, unlike many actual console launches, the 32X had games at launch that I wanted to play and were either exclusive or best for the add-on.

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I wanted to play Tempest 2000, Doom and Alien Vs. Predator on the Jag. On the 32X, I wanted to play Star Wars Arcade, Knuckes Chaotix, Space Harrier and Shadow Squadron. These were pretty good titles, but I didn't see any of them as a killer app for dropping the cash down, especially when I needed to save up for the upcoming Playstation and Saturn. Yes, I did see the Playstation and Saturn in imports shops in 1994, so the thought of buying either the 32X or Jag wasn't really there.

SNES wasn't being dumped at the beginning of 1995, Rare's games Donkey Kong Country 2, and Killer Instinct were both released late that year and chalked up sales of millions.

Sheath knows this is nonsense anyway because all the magazines he posted in the 32X retro-inspection thread have the average SNES price in May of 1995 as $99.95, and there's an advert in June of 1995 for a 2nd hand mail order company which is offering to buy 2nd hand SNES' and Genesis' in for $40 a pop.

sheath didn't say or concur that the Genesis or SNES were being dumped in Winter of 1995. I also don't know that they weren't being price cut at retailers at that time though. I remember a lot of things being chopped down in price in January-February of 1995, but I only recall buying 32X games around that time.

Also, the 32X and Jaguar were as far from being predicted as abortions as peripherals and consoles get.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They released Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island for the SNES in 1997.

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It came out in the summer of 1995

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Originally Posted by sheath

sheath didn't say or concur that the Genesis or SNES were being dumped in Winter of 1995.

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I too would enjoy wrongly ascribing words to sheath. If memory serves he has said upon oath that the 32X was designed to double as a hibachi, the Playstation lid reminds him of the Eucharist, and ostriches make ideal wives.

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I also don't know that they weren't being price cut at retailers at that time though.

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Would such a reduction prove anything either way? It could be interpreted as liquidation or it could equally be interpreted as proof licensing fees were so solid Nintendo would gain by reaching more customers through a lowered hardware price.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

It came out in the summer of 1995

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My mistake, or rather the sources mistake. ;)


These, on the other hand, were published from 1996 to 1999.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_games


■Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 1996
■Kirby Super Star - 1996
■Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! - 1996
■Ken Griffey Jr.'s Winning Run - 1996
■Tetris Attack - 1996
■Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu - 1996
■Marvelous: Another Treasure Island - 1996
■Kirby's Dream Land 3 - 1997
■Heisei Shin Onigashima - 1997
■Space Invaders - 1997
■Wrecking Crew '98 - 1998
■Famicom Tantei Club Part II: Ushiro ni Tatsu Shōjo - 1998
■Kirby no Kirakira Kizzu - 1998
■Sutte Hakkun - 1998
■Zoo-tto Mahjong! - 1998
■Power Soukoban - 1999
■Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 - 1999

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Originally Posted by StarMist

I too would enjoy wrongly ascribing words to sheath. If memory serves he has said upon oath that the 32X was designed to double as a hibachi, the Playstation lid reminds him of the Eucharist, and ostriches make ideal wives.

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You silly fan, I didn't say the Playstation lid reminds me of the Eucharist. I said it was the grayest! That is in relation to the puke yellow most NES and SNES consoles ended up. And ditches do cause semis to jack knife you silly guy.

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Originally Posted by StarMist

Would such a reduction prove anything either way? It could be interpreted as liquidation or it could equally be interpreted as proof licensing fees were so solid Nintendo would gain by reaching more customers through a lowered hardware price.

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Chilly and I will have to secretly consort about this. I'll post about it later if we come up with anything.

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Originally Posted by StarMist

Would such a reduction prove anything either way? It could be interpreted as liquidation or it could equally be interpreted as proof licensing fees were so solid Nintendo would gain by reaching more customers through a lowered hardware price.

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Or it was simply due to competition between the SNES and Genesis. Or lowered costs. The SNES and Genesis were still in stores until mid 1999 and the MSRP was gradually reduced all the way down to $30 at that late date. So the idea that they were liquidating the systems in January 1995 seems a fanciful notion.

I'm surprised no one mention Wild guns for Snes, this has got to be up there. I would say Paprium (if it counts) beats it though.

Outside of Neo-Geo obviously.

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Originally Posted by Edek

I'm surprised no one mention Wild guns for Snes, this has got to be up there. I would say Paprium (if it counts) beats it though.

Outside of Neo-Geo obviously.

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Even by SNES standards the mirroring is excessive. The pixelart is great and it it has pretty nice coloring instead of wasting the color flexibility on drab schemes.

But it's also a small game and has minimal animation.

Bumping a 9 year old thread. Honestly I looked this thread over out of a moment of boredom and I only had one minor gripe about it.



Who the fuck decided it would be a great idea to compare Virtua Racing on the Genesis to Starfox?

They are two totally different types of games. I want to punch someone in the nuts for trying to make an argument about this.

Well we've got to talk about something other than Paprium eh? The Starfox/Virtua Racing comparison people are making is obviously because both games are polygon and used an added chip but ye agreed its a bit daft to compare them.

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Originally Posted by Edek

I'm surprised no one mention Wild guns for Snes, this has got to be up there. I would say Paprium (if it counts) beats it though.

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On its place (in the sense of a work by the same developer) I would choose Mobile Suit Gundam Wing: Endless Duel.
It has the caveat of the black borders on top and bottom yet it's a quite impressive looking game regardless.

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Originally Posted by Folco

On its place (in the sense of a work by the same developer) I would choose Mobile Suit Gundam Wing: Endless Duel.
It has the caveat of the black borders on top and bottom yet it's a quite impressive looking game regardless.

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It's very obvious that they designed a game around the sprite size bottleneck, but it's the perfect license for and genre for it.

The presentation is some of the very best for a SFC game, many backgrounds are ideal for major mirroring yet the don't abuse it, lots of variety of assets, high quality cinematic art... although the hardware can do a game like that it's still hard to believe that typical cuts weren't made to save on cart size.

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Who the fuck decided it would be a great idea to compare Virtua Racing on the Genesis to Starfox?

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This isn't a gameplay or genre comparison thread. The topic is graphics. Both those games have crude polygonal visuals and aren't pretty by 16-bit standards.

At least Virtua Racing has some decent style and looks better than Checkered Flag for Jaguar.

Starfox looks better than Cybermorph. SEGA and Nintendo are so good at art styles even when very limited. They knew the right balance.

Ah, yes, talking about graphics in games definitely seems like a thing of the past. Like I do remember playing those old games on Atari (-like) computers and not liking them because they were ugly and definitely not interesting. So when Genesis came along it was a feast for the eyes. Perhaps the most graphically memorable games were Terminator 2 Arcade Game and Jungle Strike.

But I still remember one conversation from the 90s where one of my friends insisted that the navigator head in The Secret of Monkey Island was the best of computer graphics ever, which I ended up playing on a friend's old Atari ST computer.

The Atari ST was very good for 3D polygon graphics more so than the Mega Drive or even the Amiga in a few cases. I remember being amazing at how good the 3D was in F29 - Retaliator, Jimmy White's Snooker and Midwinter
More so for the time, they were made.

It's quite amazing to think how well a lot of British programmers were for early 3D polygon graphics in the mid 80 to early 90's

Vroom was fantastic on the Atari ST, using sprites and 3D polygon's it's one of the fastest 16-bit racers. The game was later rebadged and tickled up to F1 and got a good MegaDrive port.

I alway's liked the Bitmap Brothers graphics on the Amiga and ST, that detailed almost metallic look especially with the limited on screen colours of those machines. They never looked as impressive when ported to consoles for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Sut

Vroom was fantastic on the Atari ST, using sprites and 3D polygon's it's one of the fastest 16-bit racers. The game was later rebadged and tickled up to F1 and got a good MegaDrive port.

I alway's liked the Bitmap Brothers graphics on the Amiga and ST, that detailed almost metallic look especially with the limited on screen colours of those machines. They never looked as impressive when ported to consoles for some reason.

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Yeah, Bitman Brother's was ace. I so miss the days of 8 bit and 16-bit microcomputers

skimming here & saw some excellent examples - did Pulseman come up? was always impressed by the visuals of the early levels on that one

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

The Atari ST was very good for 3D polygon graphics more so than the Mega Drive or even the Amiga in a few cases. I remember being amazing at how good the 3D was in F29 - Retaliator, Jimmy White's Snooker and Midwinter
More so for the time, they were made.

It's quite amazing to think how well a lot of British programmers were for early 3D polygon graphics in the mid 80 to early 90's

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That's why I was amazed when it played "Monkey Island", I couldn't believe it was the same computer because my friend always had some ugly games like some billiards and Moon Patrol, the height was Rambo 3. And he was dying to play games on my Mega Drive, although I learned a few days ago that Atari even had Out Run on it. I don't get why he never had any better games.

If only I could go back in time in the 1990s and give myself some of these $20 computers that you can buy anywhere now with all of the best 16-bit games on it.

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Originally Posted by Carl Sagan

That's why I was amazed when it played "Monkey Island", I couldn't believe it was the same computer because my friend always had some ugly games like some billiards and Moon Patrol, the height was Rambo 3. And he was dying to play games on my Mega Drive, although I learned a few days ago that Atari even had Out Run on it. I don't get why he never had any better games.

If only I could go back in time in the 1990s and give myself some of these $20 computers that you can buy anywhere now with all of the best 16-bit games on it.

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Well the ST was never really that good for sprite based graphics compared to the Amiga, never mind the Mega Drive. It was 3D polygons where one saw some really impressive stuff, which while looking primitive now, back in the late 80s it was really impressive.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Well the ST was never really that good for sprite based graphics compared to the Amiga, never mind the Mega Drive. It was 3D polygons where one saw some really impressive stuff, which while looking primitive now, back in the late 80s it was really impressive.

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It depends on what Atari ST and Amiga we are talking about. The Atari 520 ST had an advantage with it's 8 Mhz 68000 CPU, over the 7 Mhz CPU in the Amiga 500. The top tier Amiga's had really fast CPUs and the AGA chipset.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

It depends on what Atari ST and Amiga we are talking about. The Atari 520 ST had an advantage with it's 8 Mhz 68000K CPU, over the 7 Mhz CPU in the Amiga 500. The top tier Amiga's had really fast CPUs and the AGA chipset.

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Let's keep things in perspective. People aren't talking about the top tire Amiga's used to make Babylon 5, or Atari TT but the Amiga 500/600 range Vs the Atari ST/E which is what most microcomputer gamers would be playing on in the late 80's and 90's. One saw really good 3D polygons on both and in a few cases faster ones on the ST; but always letdown in the sound dept. But it was so amazing to see the 3D stuff on both machines and pioneering in a lot of ways, given how far behind Japan and their consoles were for 3D polygons.

I remember is school us linking up 2 units to play Stunt Car Racer in 2 player mode, long before anyone spoke of the link up cable for the PS. I ever remember some reviews of Alpha Waves saying it was the worst 1st 3D platform game, amazing times

I remember hooking 2 Atari ST's to play Falcon head to head back in the day. It was great fun and looked awesome, no console could do that afaik.

That said the Atari really was purely for Sensible Soccer, the best footy game of all time :)

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

given how far behind Japan and their consoles were for 3D polygons.

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Japan had their share of 3D polygon pioneers as well. Winning Run in the arcades (probably the most technically impressive 1988 game) and Star Cruiser on the 16-bit home computers are some of the examples.