The Performance Dual Impact Gamepad for PS1 - Dualshock+neGcon Compatible Pad!

Printable View

02-10-2013, 03:53 AM
A Black Falcon

The Performance Dual Impact Gamepad for PS1 - Dualshock+neGcon Compatible Pad!

I got a Performance Dual Impact Gamepad, aka "Dual Impact Gamepad Colors" even though it's all grey so it isn't exactly very colorful, for the PS1 recently for $6. It's a pretty interesting gamepad -- for the most part it's just a decent Dual Shock clone, larger and not quite as well made as the real thing but very comfortable to hold due to its size, but it's got two unique features which make it a quite interesting controller to have.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...2L._SS500_.jpg
Mine looks like this, except it's all grey, instead of being multicolored like that one. It also says "Colors" on it to the right of the logo; this model doesn't. I assume that internally the two are the same, and the button layouts are definitely identical. The key is that little switch in the lower middle. It's got three settings. Left to right, they are Digital, Dual Analog, and Wheel (neGcon). This controller does have vibration feedback, and it works in any of the three modes in compatible games. (Note that there's also Dual Impact 2, which is a PS2 controller, and does not have the neGcon mode. That looks like just your standard PS2 clone pad.)

As for this one though, its unique features are:

-First, there's a neGcon (wheel) mode, so the controller's left analog stick works with games that are neGcon but not Dual Analog compatible, such as Wipeout XL or Motor Toon Grand Prix. That's awesome, it makes Wipeout XL almost feel like a new game! Worth it for that alone. Unfortunately it didn't work correctly with Hardcore 4X4, which is a game that supposedly supports the neGcon/wheel, but that game plays great with the below mode, so there's that at least. That's probably the game's fault, though, given that Wipeout XL, Motor Toon, etc. correctly recognize the pad as a wheel/neGcon.

One very interesting point here is that the Dual Impact's neGcon mode IS Vibration compatible. That means that yes, you can play a racing game in neGcon mode on this pad, with rumble. Cool! :) The neGcon and wheels like the Mad Catz wheel do not have vibration, but this does.

Also, after testing it (see the list below), I found that in neGcon mode, the Dual Impact has a smaller deadzone than it does in Dual Analog mode, which means that games like Crash Team Racing and Wipeout 3 control a little bit better in neGcon mode than they do in Dual Analog. I assume that this is because the Dual Shock has a big deadzone (a flaw the Dual Shock 2 and DS3/Sixaxis both share.), but it's cool that in neGcon mode it's a better stick.

The only real negative about this mode is that the buttons aren't labelled for the neGcon's unique button labels, they're only labelled as standard PS1 controller buttons, so you just have to memorize that in the wheel mode X is I, Square is II, Circle is A, Triangle is B, L1 or L2 are L, and R1 or R2 are R. It's not too hard to remember though. I'm sure a real neGcon might be better than this, but those are extremely rare in the US, so I'd have to get it from EBay and pay a whole lot more than I did... and anyway, having an analog gamepad controller that supports neGcon/wheel mode is pretty cool! See the end of the post for a full list of how the game works in my neGcon-compatible games.

-Second, Dual Analog mode. It works as you expect, just like a Dual Shock pretty much. About the only negative versus a real Dual Shock, apart from the build quality/design changes, is that this has older-style small shoulder buttons, not the larger L2/R2 buttons the Dual Shock added. Too bad. Other than that though, works fine.

-And last (well, first, but I'm going backwards), Digital mode. While mostly this is as you'd think -- decent (non-missing-center) d-pad and buttons -- but interestingly, it's got more than just that. The controller's other unique function is that the analog sticks -- yes, both of them -- emulate the d-pad in digital controller mode. They aren't analog of course, but still, it's pretty interesting, and sometimes good, to be able to play dpad-only games with the stick... pretty unique feature, you see that on PC gamepads of course, but I've never seen it on any console gamepads... a few special console controllers can do that, such as the Sega Mission Stick for the Saturn and the Sega Sports Pad (trackball) for the Master System, but not gamepads... except for this one.

And yes, some games are more fun with the analog stick acting as a dpad than they are in digital mode. I'd ay that about Hardcore 4x4, for instance; the neGcon mode may be sadly broken, but in Digital mode with the stick, it plays quite nicely.

So, overall, yeah, it's an interesting controller. I like it. And yes, even if it clearly doesn't feel as well built as a first-party controller is, it's not too fragile-feeling, and is comfortable to hold, more so than Sony controllers are for me -- I find the Playstation controller too small. The only thing it doesn't have is Dual Analog Joystick support -- you know, the full-sized, twin-stick joystick for the PS1, (Yes, there are some games that only have analog with that; the Sony Dual Analog Gamepad has a mode supporting it, but no other gamepad I know of for the system does that.) -- but apart from that it's got everything else. In the end the Dual Impact is a good gamepad that I'm happy I got, mostly for Wipeout XL (It's SO much better now! Sure I have the wheel, but that's useless for this game.), but also for some other games too, and for the "analog stick usable in dpad-only games" thing too. Interesting stuff.

Dual Impact/neGcon Compatibility List
--
There are(definitely incomplete) lists of negCon compatible games here:
http://www.rolling-start.com/forum/v....php?f=14&t=26 and here
http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/s...ffset,0/so,0a/
Of those, I list below my results when using the games I have with this controller. Note: I mean US releases of the games, not other ones. Also I would only care about games with twist support, of course; if it's just a "it uses the negcon but just the dpad", it's the same as it'd be with a regular controller.

Games with no Dual Shock support
--
Destruction Derby - Works fine.

Motor Toon Grand Prix - Works perfectly. Good controls this way, the game has no Dual Shock support.

Namco Museum Vol. 1 and Vol. 3 (in Pole Position and Pole Position II) - Works okay, though an actual wheel is better because of the much greater degree of motion -- with the Dual Impact, make VERY small movements if you want to not crash.

Ridge Racer Turbo (on R4 Bonus Disc) - Unfortunately, the Dual Impact doesn't work ingame with this game; the menus work, but it doesn't recognize it once you start playing. To get analog here, you need to use either a real neGcon, or a wheel like the Mad Catz wheel (the game does not have Dual Shock support).

TNN Motorsports Hardcore 4x4 - While my Mad Catz wheel works fine, so the game does have neGcon support, it doesn't work with this controller sadly -- left and right both turn you in lefthand circles, you can't go right.

Wipeout XL - Works perfectly, and is fantastic. This game doesn't have Dual Shock support, so something analog for it is essential! And an actual wheel is far too wide a turning radius for something like Wipeout; that may be better for car-racing games like Pole Position or Destruction Derby, but in a Wipeout game, you really want a stick like this one.

I can't find my copy of the original Wipeout, so I can't test that one. :(

Games with Dual Shock support (you may think that this would be identical to Dual Analog mode, but -- it's not! neGcon mode has a smaller deadzone than Dual Analog mode, so it makes it more precise than Dual Analog mode is in games that work with both. It's pretty cool, though this is more noticeable in some games than others, it's great!)
--
Atari Anniversary Edition Redux - Called "Wheel" mode ingame, this works for analog in paddle games like Warlords, Pong, and Super Breakout. Works fine.
Crash Team Racing - Works correctly in neGcon mode. Smaller deadzone is noticeable.
R4: Ridge Racer Type 4 - As with the RR Turbo Disc, it works in the menus, but not ingame. Bah!
Rollcage - Works correctly in neGcon mode. You can tell that the deadzone is smaller.
San Francisco Rush - Works correctly in neGcon mode.
Wipeout 3 - Works correctly in negCon mode. Smaller deadzone is noticeable.
Test Drive 4 - Works correctly in neGcon mode. This is awesome, because in Dual Analog mode, the game requirse you to use the right stick to accelerate/brake, and the left stick to move. I hate this control scheme, I want button acceleration/braking. You get that in neGcon mode. Awesome. :)
The Italian Job - Works correctly in neGcon mode.

etc., I'm not going to test every single driving game I have right now, though I may add to this list in the future as I test more games.

I do know some which definitely don't have neGcon support, though: Street Racer, JetMoto, and Dare Devil Derby 3D are digital-only for sure. Too bad. (JetMoto does have analog support in the PC version, but not on PS1.)

There are also some games that support the Dual Analog controller, but not the neGcon/wheel, such as JetMoto 2, Road Rash 3D, Driver, Circuit Breakers, and plenty more. Games where you need to tilt up and down, like Sled Storm, Moto Racer World Tour, the 1/2/3Xtreme series, etc., naturally also do not support a one-axis controller like this.

As for PS2 games, only a few support neGcon, but I do have Ridge Racer V. Even though R4 didn't work correctly with the Dual Impact, Ridge Racer V works perfectly with it. It's pretty much the same as regular analog control, but still, it's cool that it works.
02-11-2013, 12:11 AM
j_factor

When you say "Dual Analog" mode, does that mean Dual Shock type analog, or the original Dual Analog protocol that works with games like Descent?
02-11-2013, 02:26 AM
A Black Falcon

Dual Shock type analog, but that's not what Sony officially calls it, really. Look at the back of games with analog support -- they list it as "Analog Control Compatible". "Vibration Function Compatible" is listed separately. That's because the Dual Shock was not the first controller on the PS1 with either Analog [Gamepad] Control, or Vibration Function, so it wouldn't make sense to list it on the back like that. Also of course games may support one and not the other, and plenty do just that. In case you're wondering, Playstation Analog Joystick-compatible games say "Analog Joystick Compatible" on the back. neGcon compatible games, of course, usually say nothing at all outside of Japan; only a bare couple of games even mention the existence of their neGcon support in the Western boxes or manuals, but it wasn't cut from the games most of the time, it just isn't mentioned anywhere until you test it out and see whether it works. Japanese boxes, of course, are much more likely to mention the neGcon. They don't always, but certainly do more often than ours do anyway.

Anyway, the reason why I don't call it "Dual Shock" mode is because because the first controller with that mode was the Dual Analog Gamepad; that had three modes, one, green light mode, compatible with the Dual Analog Joystick (the giant twin joystick thing), and the other, red light mode, a new gamepad-only mode. The Japanese version of this also had single-motor rumble, but the Western ones had that removed. Mode three of course was light-off digital mode.

The Dual Shock controller redesigned the pad and removed green light (Dual Analog Joystick) mode, leaving just the red light and light-off modes. But its analog protocol is not new, and any games designed for the Dual Analog Gamepad's new analog mode also work on the Dualshock because it's the same thing. So I don't call it "Dual Shock" mode, because really, it isn't. Maybe I should say "Analog Gamepad" mode? (Note that I use similar terminology to this in my PS1 "game review summaries" thread...)

As I say in the review of the controller, unfortunately, the Dual Impact is NOT Analog Joystick compatible. I wish it was, that'd make it even more awesome, but it's not. Ah well.
02-17-2013, 12:32 PM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

I got a Performance Dual Impact Gamepad
As for this one though, its unique features are:

-First, there's a neGcon (wheel) mode, so the controller's left analog stick works with games that are neGcon but not Dual Analog compatible, such as Wipeout XL or Motor Toon Grand Prix. That's awesome, it makes Wipeout XL almost feel like a new game! Worth it for that alone. Unfortunately it didn't work correctly with Hardcore 4X4, which is a game that supposedly supports the neGcon/wheel, but that game plays great with the below mode, so there's that at least. That's probably the game's fault, though, given that Wipeout XL, Motor Toon, etc. correctly recognize the pad as a wheel/neGcon.

One very interesting point here is that the Dual Impact's neGcon mode IS Vibration compatible. That means that yes, you can play a racing game in neGcon mode on this pad, with rumble. Cool! :) The neGcon and wheels like the Mad Catz wheel do not have vibration, but this does.

Well, besides your usual self-assertiveness and will to produce walls of text, this is a good thread. Thanks.

Some steering wheels, like the Logic 3 Top Drive Plus support the negcon mode with vibration. Side-by-Side Special 2000 is a racing game where you'll only have full analog controls and vibration using such mode; but there are other examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Also, after testing it (see the list below), I found that in neGcon mode, the Dual Impact has a smaller deadzone than it does in Dual Analog mode, which means that games like Crash Team Racing and Wipeout 3 control a little bit better in neGcon mode than they do in Dual Analog. I assume that this is because the Dual Shock has a big deadzone (a flaw the Dual Shock 2 and DS3/Sixaxis both share.), but it's cool that in neGcon mode it's a better stick.

Dual Shock is an analog protocol for the masses, for the millions and millions of bad players out there, so you'll usually get a very big dead zone and very low sensitivity using it, just like sheath has been said. Dual Shock == shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Dual Impact/neGcon Compatibility List
--
There are(definitely incomplete) lists of negCon compatible games here:
http://www.rolling-start.com/forum/v....php?f=14&t=26 and here
http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/s...ffset,0/so,0a/
Of those, I list below my results when using the games I have with this controller. Note: I mean US releases of the games, not other ones.

Yeah, the actual available lists are really badly incomplete. I have an on going one which is 10000000000.4865% better than all others, but I'll never share it. Uh, bad joke, it's an awesome list but I'm going to finish it first before publishing it at gamepilgrimage.com
It has already consumed months and lots of burned CDs but I have discovered tons of compatible games even among the later ones which list the compatibility nowhere on the cover neither on the manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Also I would only care about games with twist support, of course; if it's just a "it uses the negcon but just the dpad", it's the same as it'd be with a regular controller.

Yes, that's the way I see it too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_factor

When you say "Dual Analog" mode, does that mean Dual Shock type analog, or the original Dual Analog protocol that works with games like Descent?

Yes, just another lame new "standardization"/labeling brought to you by A Black Falcon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Anyway, the reason why I don't call it "Dual Shock" mode is because

Because you like to be stubborn.

As for a Dual Analog and Dual Shock compatible controller, go for the Interact Barracuda II (which has the same construction quality of this one) which also has vibration feature, unlike the first Barracuda (but it has far better sticks IMO).
02-19-2013, 05:54 PM
A Black Falcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

Some steering wheels, like the Logic 3 Top Drive Plus support the negcon mode with vibration. Side-by-Side Special 2000 is a racing game where you'll only have full analog controls and vibration using such mode; but there are other examples.

Huh, that's interesting. Are there any wheels released in the US with this?

Quote:

Dual Shock is an analog protocol for the masses, for the millions and millions of bad players out there, so you'll usually get a very big dead zone and very low sensitivity using it, just like sheath has been said. Dual Shock == shite.

While this is true, it's still unfortunate, and making those sticks have such giant deadzones is awful and a bad decision.

Quote:

Yeah, the actual available lists are really badly incomplete. I have an on going one which is 10000000000.4865% better than all others, but I'll never share it. Uh, bad joke, it's an awesome list but I'm going to finish it first before publishing it at gamepilgrimage.com
It has already consumed months and lots of burned CDs but I have discovered tons of compatible games even among the later ones which list the compatibility nowhere on the cover neither on the manual.

Huh, really? I did test this with most of the racing games I have for PS1, despite what I said in the OP; the results are as listed. Still, I'd be interested in seeing this list, when complete.

Quote:

Yes, that's the way I see it too...

Unfortunately the people who made those lists I linked didn't seem to agree with that, which means that a bunch of games that really do not belong were listed there. I mean, no, the Tekken games do not have neGcon support. :lol:

Quote:

Yes, just another lame new "standardization"/labeling brought to you by A Black Falcon.

Um, no, I'm just agreeing with Sony, and obvious sense, that calling it the "Dual Shock", when that would leave out the Playstation Analog Gamepad and would confuse people into thinking that I mean both rumble AND analog support when in fact I only mean the former, would be a pretty bad idea.

Maybe I should always call it "Analog Control Compatible" or something, to stick with their terminology, but "Dual Shock" would certainly be the wrong term.

Quote:

Because you like to be stubborn.

No, because the other way would be confusing and inaccurate.

Quote:

As for a Dual Analog and Dual Shock compatible controller, go for the Interact Barracuda II (which has the same construction quality of this one) which also has vibration feature, unlike the first Barracuda (but it has far better sticks IMO).

Huh, looks decent. I might want one sometime.
05-17-2013, 02:10 AM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Huh, that's interesting. Are there any wheels released in the US with this?

Man, really sorry for such a delayed answer.. I really didn't see this post when the thread was kicking (I bet it stayed a few days in the mod limbo and returned when I was kinda off the forum)...
Anyway...

There's a lot of "rebranded" versions of the Logic 3 steering wheels and, so, you'll will find some weird looking wheels which seem to be just carbon copies of some Logic 3 models. I think this one is a carbon copy of Logic 3's Top Drive Plus:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OLD-STOC...item3a81008eec
If you want to check, this is the original Top Drive Plus (scroll down the description, it has several good quality pics) (Logic 3 seems to be marketed only in Europe; UK and Germany mostly):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151043706004...84.m1438.l2649

I think the price is off in the US listing though... I wouldn't pay more than $25 nowadays but maybe the seller will accept a much lower offer since that item has been constantly relisted for several months. It may be a great option for you given it's also N64 compatible.

Aside from the Logic 3 Top Drive Plus (which is N64/PS1 compatible; neGcon with vibration and jogCon modes also supported; "rally" style gear shifter), you have other two Logic 3 models with both neGcon with vibration and jogCon modes support: Top Drive Roadster (very hard to find) and Top Drive Sprinter (compact and cheaper version of the previous one; more common). There's also a half-assed Top Drive Sprinter version (the wheel is *identical*), actually Top Drive GTO, which doesn't have pedals included, but I think you can plug any Logic 3 Top Drive pedals in it and use them.

So, presenting,
Top Drive Sprinter (look at the third picture, the box says what you want) (PS1 only; F1-style paddle shifters):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130908584528...84.m1438.l2649

Top Drive Roadster (PS1/N64; F1-Style paddle shifters):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Drive-Ro...vip=true&rt=nc

I never saw US versions of those last two models, though. The Roadster has some rebranded versions in Europe, so you may find it one day in US, IDK...

There's also this weird-ass model at a crazy price on ebay US:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170685273368...84.m1438.l2649

sheath has another version with the same case and different brand which is N64/SAT/PS1 compatible. His version does have *some* rumble in neGcon mode but he said it's quite weak. Also, he's facing some compatibility problems/issues with the pedals. So IDK how much I could recommend that PS1-only model, but it looks interesting at first.

I also know that even some of the most expensive and "advanced" steering wheels released for the PS1 later in its life lack the negCon vibration mode... I'm talking about Mad Catz MC2 steering wheel (great calibration system, 270º of rotation - most of models of the time were 180º at best) and Interact Concept 4 (300º of rotation, fully re-programmable, superb construction quality, metal paddle shifters, etc...). Their owners were usually looking for top-of-the-line products and I've read a lot of complaining regarding the lack of vibration in neGcon mode, since Gran Turismo 2 was much better when played in such mode and most of those guys bought those wheels to play GT2.

A very "different" option would be to import a Logic 3 Top Drive Reactor from ebay UK (you usually can find them boxed or even new there for good prices and the device is light weight, so you can import it without much pain). It features both neGcon with vibration and JogCon compatibility but some people really hate RC-like controllers, so, it's just a comment not a recommendation.
This is a unboxed one located in US:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logic3-PS440...item20d286c2fe

That's all that I know by now, I hope this info is useful for you somehow 'cause it took me a lot of research to "build" it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

While this is true, it's still unfortunate, and making those sticks have such giant deadzones is awful and a bad decision.

They went really cheap with those Dual Shit controllers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Huh, really? I did test this with most of the racing games I have for PS1, despite what I said in the OP; the results are as listed. Still, I'd be interested in seeing this list, when complete.

Really. And it keeps growing every week.
Thanks for the interest, I'll let you know for sure when I have compiled and organized it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Unfortunately the people who made those lists I linked didn't seem to agree with that, which means that a bunch of games that really do not belong were listed there. I mean, no, the Tekken games do not have neGcon support. :lol:

lol, really...
The problem is that games like Tekken have the damn support logo in their back over of the Japanese release, for shame!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Um, no, I'm just agreeing with Sony, and obvious sense, that calling it the "Dual Shock", when that would leave out the Playstation Analog Gamepad and would confuse people into thinking that I mean both rumble AND analog support when in fact I only mean the former, would be a pretty bad idea.

Maybe I should always call it "Analog Control Compatible" or something, to stick with their terminology, but "Dual Shock" would certainly be the wrong term.

No, because the other way would be confusing and inaccurate.

They are confusing anyway, but I think the official terminology is already there so, why contribute even more to the mess?
I usually say: neGcon mode, analog joystick mode, dual shock mode. Those are different enough for me to remind myself about the meaning of each one. But, yes, the whole thing is a bag of cats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Huh, looks decent. I might want one sometime.

Really, go for the Barracuda 2, man, you won't regret. The buttons aren't painted with PS1 symbols, they're like the Dual Impact ones and I love that. Both 'cause they look neat IMO and also 'cause they will not age badly by losing the paint.
Barracuda 2 is also programmable and you can exchange the axis using a switch in the back of the controller.
It's perfect for playing Assault (included in Namco Museum Vol. 4, which supports the analog joystick but not the dual shock mode) and Wing Commander IV. I also have an on going/growing list for Analog Joystick compatible games.
05-26-2013, 01:53 AM
A Black Falcon

I can update that I got Rage Racer last month, and it works great with the Dual Impact Gamepad. :) It's another one of those games that has neGcon-only analog, so this is fantastic!

As for the above post, I think I'll respond to it later, but the Barracuda II... that would be nice, but what I really want is the real Playstation Analog Joystick. Problem is, it's expensive.
05-26-2013, 02:19 AM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

I can update that I got Rage Racer last month, and it works great with the Dual Impact Gamepad. :) It's another one of those games that has neGcon-only analog, so this is fantastic!

Most (like 90-95%) of the JP-developed racing games released prior to 1997 in Japan were neGcon compatible; thing is: many of them are obscure and never got released in the western countries OR they were released in US without mentioning any analog support since neGcon was never officially released in US. So, many people complain about controls in games like Rage Racer but they are actually using fucking d-pads to play while the game was totally designed around very precise analog controlling with neGcon.
Thus tons of good games got trashed or forgotten due to unfair reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

As for the above post, I think I'll respond to it later, but the Barracuda II... that would be nice, but what I really want is the real Playstation Analog Joystick. Problem is, it's expensive.

What do you consider expensive (I know about some compatible controllers, actually joysticks and other stuff which I could suggest)?
05-26-2013, 03:28 AM
A Black Falcon

For PS1 wheels, that's interesting information, but I doubt I'll buy any of them; I rarely use the wheels I do have (Saturn, PS1, PC), and with some games find the wheel actually harder than a controller... there are a few games that benefit from the wheel, and one better than my PS1 Mad Catz wheel would be great, but I don't use wheels enough to make me want to spend much on one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

Most (like 90-95%) of the JP-developed racing games released prior to 1997 in Japan were neGcon compatible; thing is: many of them are obscure and never got released in the western countries OR they were released in US without mentioning any analog support since neGcon was never officially released in US. So, many people complain about controls in games like Rage Racer but they are actually using fucking d-pads to play while the game was totally designed around very precise analog controlling with neGcon.
Thus tons of good games got trashed or forgotten due to unfair reasons.

Quite true. And yeah, it really is too bad when people bash a game because they were using the wrong controller for it (see Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Racing, or Hang-On GP for Saturn, for other examples of games massively improved by using the right controller...), but to be fair, when the controller isn't released here, or when a very poor job is done of telling people about it and what games it works with, it's understandable, unfortunately.

Also, as I detail in the OP, just because games have neGcon support doesn't mean that they work correctly with the Dual Impact; remember that R4 and the Ridge Racer Turbo Disc don't seem to work correctly with it. At least, I can't get the car to turn ingame with the thing. But in Rage Racer, it works correctly and is great. And yes, it hugely helps the game.

Quote:

What do you consider expensive (I know about some compatible controllers, actually joysticks and other stuff which I could suggest)?

I don't know... but I imagine anything import would be pricey, for shipping and such... and that thing is HUGE! That's going to cost. Combine that with the small number of games that work with it, and I haven't seriously considered buying a PS Analog Joystick yet. I want it eventually though... even if only a few games support it, it's enough to make me want one, and they'll surely be better with the stick than a gamepad like that one you suggest, I would think. Like, compare how Saturn Mission Stick games run on the 3D Controller: not nearly as well.

Quote:

Unfortunately the people who made those lists I linked didn't seem to agree with that, which means that a bunch of games that really do not belong were listed there. I mean, no, the Tekken games do not have neGcon support.
lol, really...
The problem is that games like Tekken have the damn support logo in their back over of the Japanese release, for shame!!!

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Quote:

They are confusing anyway, but I think the official terminology is already there so, why contribute even more to the mess?
I usually say: neGcon mode, analog joystick mode, dual shock mode. Those are different enough for me to remind myself about the meaning of each one. But, yes, the whole thing is a bag of cats.

So I should use "Analog Control Compatible", you mean? Eh, maybe I could do that. I mean, "Dual Shock", as I said, isn't specific enough. Does that mean rumble, or analog? With just that term it's not clear. And plenty of games support one of those but not the other. On US packaging they said "Analog Control Compatible" (with a picture of a gamepad, to distinguish it from the analog joystick compatible games with the picture of the stick), and "Vibration Feedback Compatible", I believe, for the two options.