And would recommend that everyone do the same. Here is my current desktop:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/334...81366x768s.png
Gentoo is very good it gives much more control over my system. I see a good performance increase.
Edit:404th post
Printable View
And would recommend that everyone do the same. Here is my current desktop:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/334...81366x768s.png
Gentoo is very good it gives much more control over my system. I see a good performance increase.
Edit:404th post
Yes, compile-your-own OS means it's tailored for your specific system, so it runs great! But it's too much work for many people. I run Xubuntu.
How does one even compile your own OS? That sounds like something you'd have to be a programmer to even begin knowing how to do.
By installing gentoo. It is not that hard just follow the install handbook http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecRob
It is like chilly willy said more work but the results can be rewarding. If you just want to get into linux I would recomend an *buntu based distro.
I highly recommend it for slower systems. I have an old 1GHz laptop that used to crawl, but with a Gentoo setup, it flies. If you want the most from a slower system, you really need to compile a custom kernel, and Gentoo makes that relatively easy compared to the alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
:D
Will this work under Wnidows 7 32-bit?
It can work next to win7 but not at the same time with it, unless you do VM business...
Why would you even want to do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWarrior
Yes if you use virtualbox or dual boot your PC that is what I do. I used grub as my bootloader configured as suchQuote:
Originally Posted by KnightWarrior
Most of the time people boot GNU/Linux then boot windoze using virtualbox.Code:Mordor yoda # cat /boot/grub/grub.conf
# This is a sample grub.conf for use with Genkernel, per the Gentoo handbook
# http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=10#doc_chap2
# If you are not using Genkernel and you need help creating this file, you
# should consult the handbook. Alternatively, consult the grub.conf.sample that
# is included with the Grub documentation.
default 0
timeout 30
#splashimage=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Gentoo Linux
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/kernel-3.7.9-gentoo root=/dev/sda7
title Gentoo Linux (resuce)
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/kernel-3.7.9-gentoo root=/dev/sda7 init=/bin/bb
title windoze 7
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1
That was my plan, to boot into Linux and then have a choice of whatever virtualized Windows I so desire.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
but alas, Linux dun like the ATI.
Windows doesn't either. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
The only decent ATI drivers EVER were for the old Mac PPC systems. The funniest driver "update" I ever saw for Windows was that version of Catalyst which WHEN the ATI board locked up, would time out and reset the card. :rofl:
Anywho, smart folks only buy nVidia, be it for linux or Windows. ;)
I mostly went with ATI because the mobo I chose had an ATI video onboard, then I added another ATI with 2x video out, so I could use my triple monitor setup.
Any good Nvidia cards that have 3x video out? If that exists I can just swap GPU cards and disable the onboard video.
Three video outs? I don't think so. Two is more normal, like with your ATI. I can see why you bought the ATI since the mobo had it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
Yeah, it's pretty hit and miss. My Radeon 6450 works perfectly in Ubuntu, but others have had issues with the same setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
I've used gentoo for some years on a USB flash drive to help me get into systems that were compromised by a virus or ID10T errors. It has been useful, but I haven't wanted to use it for my basic computer usage before. I guess I could spend some time tweaking and see, but I think I'd rather stick with standard XP if given the choice.
I wonder what the emulation scene is like for something like this, or gaming in general.
I'd rather install Arch than Gentoo these days, but I'm still a Debian guy.
I'm not running any web servers now, only desktop use on modern hardware, so no need for lean and efficient builds. I'd rather just use Windows 7 or 8 most of the time.
I am surprised to see that a few people who have used GNU/Linux prefer to use M$ windoze. I can not understand why anyone would want to use windoze it is not good at all. Windoze is too hard to use and stuff never works right. Also windoze has many viruses and security issues.
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002...mb_xlarge.jpegQuote:
Originally Posted by sega16
More of exaggerating. Either way though I all GNU/Linux based distros that I have used so far are better than windoze.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
Better at what? End user experience? Providing a posix compliant shell environment to work from? Being compatible with 3rd party software? It all depends on what you want to use it for, and the trade-off in security is almost a non-issue with how often and frequent Microsoft provides support & addresses issues that come up. Windows is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
"Windoze" "GNU/Linux" ... Let me guess, you're an FSF zealot. Yeah? :lol:
Oh, yeah, you're one of "those" guys. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
Windows serves a purpose. That purpose is rooted in practicality. Security issues aren't an issue when you take the right precautions. It's not like using a PC is like being responsible for protecting mission critical bank infrastructure.
I have worked for more than a few big tech corporations, and it always cracks me up to see the zealots preaching their biases against these non-issues. You sound like another one of those rebellious kids who just discovered free software and wants to stick it to the big evil Microsoft while preaching about the shiny new software toy you found.
M$, give me a fucking break. They're the first, the biggest and arguably still the best software company on the planet. Laugh at their corporate structure, laugh at Ballmer, but don't discredit their massive support footprint and their huge developer community support. They're still on top for a good reason. You would know this if you worked in enterprise environments and seen their real market.
Windoze has an user experience .... a bad one. Why does M$ windoze 7 need 1.5GB on boot. On Gentoo After Startx finishes and I launch lxtask I am still only using 55mb of ram. Because of the fact that windoze uses so much ram it swaps alot and runs slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
As time goes on there is more and more GNU/Linux software available both Free and commercial. Also wine will run many windoze only programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
Not really so much. I am not that hard-core about it. I will use something that is not free software without issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
Making computers cost over $100 and frustrating the user with crappy software is not a good purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I do not see much practicality in windoze and I do only purchases on the internet sometimes and I do not want my paypal to be hacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I just want to tell people that they don't have to deal with windoze and can use something better which is GNU/LinuxQuote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
No they are on top due to lock-in effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
You sound like you don't have any idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
Something better, you say. That's circumstantial, and for all practical purposes, is a fault which Linux isn't surpassing and a fight it isn't winning for the mainstream. I think hardcore linux zealots within the community is the main reason it's not taking off.
I haven't seen one point from you as to why Windows is not a practical and fully functional OS.
I'm no lover of Microsoft's bullshit, but I'm grounded in reality and have been shoulder to shoulder with enough hardcore free software neckbeards over the years that I can only roll my eyes at their disconnected purpose in life every time they open their mouths and spew bullshit. I can empathize, but that's as far as I'll go down that road. Linux, OpenBSD, OpenSolaris, & the GNU chain are all wonderful. I throw money at projects I like and support the cause of free software alternatives whenever I see a need to. I don't think Microsoft is literally Hitler though, that's the train of thought spawned by extremist fools who don't want to see the purpose Windows serves, and how well it does what it does, despite being commercial & restrictive.
The name of the game is progressiveness and the betterment of technology, it's great that free software is as progressive as commercial software, but going completely idealistic about it won't win any turf wars. The real world is about practicality, and it's more practical for many enterprises & end-users to use a functional jack of all trades OS like Windows that has a huge support scene and no learning curve, a fight that was lost a long time ago due to DOS.
You come here pissing on "Microsoft" and "Windows" as if it proves a point, other than you don't like the worlds most successful software corporation & useful product. To what end? Saying that you installed Gentoo, and it's better?
Gentoo is like Arch, the WORST kind of distro you can throw at the Windows market. It's practical if you want a lean and efficient tiny OS, but you would score more points by arguing for Ubuntu or Linux Mint on that angle. At least they provide the idiot-proof user environment you seem to think is valueless.
You don't see the practicality in windows... you don't want your paypal account hacked... What the fuck does that even mean? Phishing happens regardless of the OS you use, usually a fault of human stupidity or the web browser bleeding information.
This thread summarized:
"Hey guys! I use GNU/Linux! It's awesome! Windows sucks because it doesn't work at all and takes up an insignificant yet still larger amount of memory to run! Microsoft is Evil! Everybody should use GNU/Linux like me!"
Way wrong 1.5GB is alot more that 55mb lets do the math 1.5*1024=1536/55 windoze takes up 28 Times more ram and the startup time is way slower too. Also I am not saying that everyone should use GNU/Linux there is also Open-Solaris (now called Illumos) and BSD based operating systems (FreeBSD/netBSD/openBSD) and there are many more operating systems (I have just listed a few) I am open to all non-windows and non-apple Operating systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
And? How does that matter when the OS boots up in like 30 seconds? Why should anybody care when there's 4Gb+ Ram in the average PC these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
I worked with Sun, fucking around with and supporting their SPARC platforms all running Solaris. I fail to see how listing all these open source variants says anything to discredit Microsoft's Windows as a practical and solid platform.
Like I said, you sound like a rebellious kid who just discovered the free software scene, wanting to piss on Microsoft because they're the big evil bad guy.
I'm not going to argue about it though. Good luck with caring so much about irrelevant performance comparisons in a desktop setup, that you actually let it detrimentally effect your use of the English language. :ok:
Microsoft is BAD. Period. Anyone who argues otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. How bad is a matter of opinion, and many people are STUCK with Windows, like it or not. All you have to do is use any modern distro like Fedora or Ubuntu and you'll never like using Windows again, even if you HAVE to.
It's not just Windows, but EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT. They've all got that bloated buggy pain-in-the-ass quality that marks all MS products. Their support is only so-so, and you WILL need it if you use MS products regularly. I've never needed tech support for linux - of the few problems I've run into, a quick google is all that is ever needed to find the solution.
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Yeah, I could agree and empathize up until the point you dropped those two polarizing abominations into the conversation.
And as someone who has worked for Microsoft in the past, let me tell you a little secret about what the support agents use for Microsoft products.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
It begins with a G. Go ahead and guess. :lol:
You can argue all you want about not needing Linux tech support, you'd be hard pressed to find any on the consumer level anyway. Windows is shit, but it works. It works a lot better than Linux for most people. That's what a lot of neckbeards can't admit, that there's value within the slower, bloated, idiot proof and convenient ecosystem that Microsoft has rolled out.
Fedora is one of the worst things I have had my (dis)pleasure to use.... My productivity is zero on it, everything took way too many operations to do. But I got my homework done and happily wiped that HDD and put some Windows on it ^^
Windows is pretty bad, but it's that way by necessity. It's backwards compatible to the point of madness. I read the blog of one of the windows devs awhile back, they went through hell because developers used Windows API functions they weren't supposed to or used them in a way they weren't supposed to (that includes the Office devs).
To make matters worse, the Windows API is as terrible as you can possibly get. The NT kernel (very good, designed by folk who worked in VMS) is probably the best thing about windows, all the crap comes from the half-assed formerly DOS based side which the NT kernel has to support (which they have been cleaning up, it's why windows 8 is faster than 7).
Of course, that's not the whole story, windows is filled up the ass with bad design. Here's a few examples:
1. DLL Hell, because having a big reliance on shared libraries and no package management can only result in a mess.
2. WinSxS, because the best way to fix DLL Hell is by inventing a horrible hackish kludge.
3. Windows Installer, probably the worst piece of software ever devised. Overly complex, poorly implemented, horribly inefficient, lacking in features.
4. .Net, "Oh you have 4.5 installed, the whole 400 megs of it? You need 3.5 sorry, and you also have to disable 4.5 or it's not gonna work properly"
5. Windows Update, let's reboot 3 times for an update, 3rd time is the charm right?
6. The infiltration of internet explorer all over the system.
7. WPF, overly complex, only the buttons look remotely native for what was supposed to be the new "true" GUI library. The Ribbon for it came like a year after the WinAPI one, incompatible too. The MFC ribbon is also different, and also incompatible. Ridiculous.
8. The file copy process on Vista/7 (fixed in 8, was good in XP)
9. UAC (Vista one was too annoying, 7 one was useless and annoying due to the screen flash, 8 one is just useless)
That's just examples of poor core software, here's examples of bad policies:
1. Not being allowed to pack the D3D helper library with your software, means every software that uses it needs to run the freaking DirectX installer just for a few KB, even if it's already installed.
2. See above, but for microsoft's standard C++ library (i'm not sure if you're really not allowed to pack it, either way, tons of versions in Add/Remove Programs).
3. Constantly moving targets. WPF, Silverlight, VB6, Windows Forms, XNA, all pretty much deprecated. Constant reinventing of the Wheel.
4. Horribly inconsistent UIs (because not even microsoft follows their own guidelines)
5. Not microsoft's fault, but all the damn Auto Updaters. Only google chrome gets it right (lol google).
List would be twice as big if I were to list all the problems with Windows 8.
Fun part, even with all of this, Linux (any distro, besides an hypothetical one you setup yourself to fit your needs exactly) is worse. Biggest problem? I haven't used a single distro ever I could call stable (and if I could, it would be hopelessly outdated from the absolutely moronic idea of packing everything in version dependent repositories). There were always bugs everywhere. Some were fixed after upgrading, newer ones appeared.
If you had 4gb of ram and the os uses 1.5GB that is still 37.5% of the ram used by the os I have 3GB of ram so that is 50%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I just picked a random os that I have heard about. I have never used Solaris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I don't want to piss on M$ there are way too many buildings all across the world it would be too expensive to piss on M$ due to plan tickets and I would never be able to cover the whole building with piss it would take a very long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
How does this affect my usage of English?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
Fedora isn't for the average user because they like to keep it "cutting edge". If you're a cutting edge kinda guy, you'll LOVE Fedora. It DOES take a lot more work because it's cutting edge. Ubuntu's main flaw these days is Gnome, so go with Xubuntu instead as XFCE is much better than Gnome now. I run Xubuntu on all my systems, including the PS3 and old iMacs. Many folks prefer Mint to Ubuntu... but that makes one of the main reasons linux is better - if you hate, Hate, HATE a particular distro, there's a dozen more where that came from, and one will almost assuredly be more your taste. For example, Tiido HATES Fedora, while I only dislike the extra work from using cutting edge packages. So try something else. Take a weekend or two and get a number of different LiveCDs and see if one "speaks" to you.
By contrast, if Windows doesn't work for you, you're stuck. Plain and simple. There's NOTHING ELSE other than try older revisions and hope one works for you. That's what Tiido does. How's that Windows 98 working, Tiido? :D
I have three main reasons for not using Linux on my main computer...Quote:
Originally Posted by sega16
- Sony Vegas
- Photoshop
- AfterEffects
And it doesn't help that I've only ever had one wireless card that worked properly under any Linux distro and no, ndiswraper is not a good solution to this because I've had a ton of issues with it as well.
Windows has always worked right for me and I don't see how one could claim it's any harder to use the Linux. Going into the terminal to fix stuff is not what most consider easy.
I just don't think Linux is a good desktop OS.
Also, it's not the 90s. There is no reason to use "M$".
I have yet to find any practical applications for Linux. Finding programs in and of itself is ridiculously tedious, they all require millions of dependencies and it's difficult getting them installed correctly. Installing hardware drivers is a nightmare... Hell, even getting grub set up to play nice with other OSes is a huge pain in the ass. Linux is for college or university students who have nothing better to do with their lives.
Windows is awesome though, always has tons of programs, very rarely are DLL files an issue (even if they are, I can download them) and with the huge amount of backwards compatibility, there's always a way to get an old program working. Not to mention, Windows has been a massive gaming platform forever. There's always fun stuff to do with Windows long after it's normal usefulness has run out.
I see the purpose of a Linux desktop, if you want to configure a work station to feed you information, look good, and provide a sane way to get in and out of administrative tasks in a terminal. Ubuntu & Gnome project are taking steps toward making their software restrictive in functionality in an attempt to win over Windows and Mac users. There's nothing wrong with any of that, the alternatives and forks are still there to use. I'm a Debian guy, it's as "Cutting edge" as Fedora & it's core releases are designed so they don't look like a huge mess in user land. I never bothered going up beyond Fedora 16, it was just one broken piece of shit after another every time I installed it. I hope they fixed it by now, I won't ever bother with it again though. I was never a big fan of Solaris. Even when I worked with it, I preferred Linux. Although, it is less bloated, less cumbersome, and more secure by design. When they added ZFS & Zones in Solaris 10, it was something to appreciate just speaking as an IT geek.
All of that is irrelevant to a practical, every day use. Windows is a solid OS that runs on more hardware configurations out of the box than it should, and it does everything most people could want it to. It's got better support than anything else.
I say run what you like and works for you, be it Windows, Linux a Mac whatever. I find all the arguing about a bit odd. It's like arguing over how food tastes. If someone doesn't like pizza and I do its not my problem. I wouldn't pay any attention to Sega16. In fact if you were all smart you would just put him on your ignore list.
I run ubuntu myself but I just need stone solid setup, internet ,sound video, word processing, basic photo editing tools. Obviously its not going to cut it for a lot of people, more advanced users etc.
You sound like you haven't used linux since 2000. Finding programs and installing them and any dependencies is as easy as opening the package manager (Synaptic in Ubuntu), looking through a list (that can be ordered in many fashions and searched on), clicking a check box, and clicking install. Done. Ooooooooooo - that's SOOOOOOOOOOO hard!!! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
It's rare that a program isn't in the repository for the distro. And those are as simple to install as any Windows installer - open the window where you downloaded the file and double-click the file icon. Done.
FTFY ;) :DQuote:
Windows is awful though, always has tons of malware, very often DLL files are an issue (even if they are, I can't download them, except maybe from a couple dozen different places that all use different methods of installing once you've found and downloaded them) and with the lousy backwards compatibility, there's always a way to get an old program working badly. Not to mention, Windows has been a massive gaming platform for crap and shovelware. There's always fun stuff to do with Windows long after it's normal usefulness has run out, like figuring out just how many viruses have infected every single file.
I'm not gonna bother addressing any of that. I'm not an OS nerd, never have been. I just use what works.
Linux "works", you don't have to be an "OS nerd" to know that. Everything you stated in your first post sounds like you haven't used Linux in a LONG time; GRUB is easy to set-up, hardware drivers are now automatically detected and give you options to select an upgraded one, programs are now easily searchable, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Ubuntu (and all variants) generally starts with a generic driver, and when you get to the desktop, the update manager will alert you if proprietary drivers are available, ask if you want to install them, then do so. You never have to do anything more than click okay. The only time I've had to mess with GRUB was to make boot entries for hobby OSes like SkyOS and AROS. Linux installers have handled OSX and Windows since forever. :)
Most people are LUCKY Windows comes preinstalled - Windows can be an absolute PAIN to install. Most computers come with an image of Windows setup by the techs at the company that assembled the computer that covers just what is in the computer. You're usually okay if you insert a new board as that normally comes with a driver CD. But once you've changed the computer enough, that original Windows image CD for the computer won't work anymore - you'll need a generic Windows install disc, and that's when you run into Windows Install Hell. :D
Microsoft is just as greedy if not more greedy now there is no reason to stop using the word M$ in place of microsoft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Llama
Windows is as solid as glass on a window one rock thrown at it and it breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I cannot use my Yamaha sound cards in Linux... all the lovely synthesizer stuff is gone. Softsynths are not a solution or an option.