Fan-made tech demo of Starfox on the Genesis

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03-14-2013, 03:39 PM
matteus

Just needs some nice music to it ;) This is the best youtube seemed to have on offer lol

http://youtu.be/P7W3_MQ2qtY
03-15-2013, 12:37 AM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stef

The 256 horizontal resolution is practical for several reasons and also the 256x160 resolution is already quite wide, 280x146 is very close to 2:1 !!

Ah, right . . . Star Fox was already intended to use a window with close to 4:3 aspect.
Just switching to H40 would be the ticket then . . . less jaggy pixels, closer to square (especially for 50 Hz users), and no column scroll artifacts. (you get a horizontal boarder too, of course) The window aspect ratio on-screen should be pretty close to the SNES's 224x190 in that case too, just smaller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matteus

Just needs some nice music to it ;) This is the best youtube seemed to have on offer lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=P7W3_MQ2qtY

Sonicthejackrabbit had 2 or 3 other attempts, but he removed those videos for some reason and this is the only one there now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fr_rZKb92Y

He never got the percussion right IMO (initially just using unfiltered SNES samples . . . or actually adding distortion in one case iirc), but I liked the instrument choices better in some of the others. I'm not a fan of some of the Thunderforce IV instruments he used in the "revised" version, or the drums.

However, his conversion of Titania was my favorite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KQ4LkUYKcE

Fortuna was OK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0axSZryHl0

Macbeth not so much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPRC7hquQc

Credits theme was pretty good though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-1kgu-Ubfc

And he also did the opposite with a Star Fox instrument remix of Metal Squad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU34_VngstI

I kind of like that one actually . . . though I'm not really a fan of the instrumentation in the original MD arrangement of that game. (too grating . . . this mix is at times too -and the same instruments in particular too)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheath

No matter what, the Genesis game needs to have the highest quality short "bleh bbbdududbuh" samples for proper Muppet jib-jab.

Heh, sonicthejackrabbit also did some Star Fox SFX conversion demos for the Genesis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsEqosHSHEw
03-15-2013, 01:53 AM
TrekkiesUnite118

I wonder if you could just rip some of the key samples from the SNES game and use Stefs 4 channel PCM sound driver and use FM/PSG for the rest. Just because it was typically used for Drums and voices doesn't mean you couldn't use it for String and Guitar samples.
03-15-2013, 03:00 AM
TmEE

His driver does not do sample scaling, so you cannot play sounds at different pitches.
03-15-2013, 08:46 PM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by TmEE

His driver does not do sample scaling, so you cannot play sounds at different pitches.

You could pre-sample a few notes, but that's going to eat up ROM really fast.

If you dropped to 1 channel, you could vary the sample rate rather than scaling, but that doesn't really help here anyway given the trade-offs of havng 1 channel. Probably just better top optimize for PCM/DPCM samples at fixed pitch along with FM and PSG. (most of star fox' instruments work well as FM, and those that don't could be dealt with by re-arranging things a little . . . good arrangements should probably sound better than the SNES counterparts, even the orchestral stuff)\

Also, if you did have a scaled sample driver on the MD, it'd be better to use higher quality samples than the SNES originals. :p (same thing for the fixed-pitch samples you'd want to use with Stef's driver)

I suppose another question would be whether Stef wants to keep things down to the original 1 MB of ROM the SNES game used . . . if you open up that limit, there's a lot more freedom. ;)
03-16-2013, 08:13 PM
Vector2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Why did Stef mention he had to use 64x64 in his demo?
Does it have anything to do with using column scroll?

With the polygon layer needing no scrolling at all, I don't see why 32x32 wouldn't be used to save VRAM space. Or is it just that the tool set Stef is using has 64x64 set up as the default?

I'm posting this here because maybe Stef will see and answer it in this thread.
03-17-2013, 09:13 AM
Stef

I missed this one...
I have to use 64x64 for the background and unfortunately you cannot set different plan size for A & B.
But even without the background, if i use VRAM double buffering I will need at least 64 vertical size plan for bitmap plan (as i switch between two 20 tiles height screen), then now if we want to use the H40 video mode we end up to 64x64 plan size even for the bitmap plan.

I don't care about using more than 1MB, up to 4MB is not a problem :)
03-18-2013, 12:17 PM
Pyron

Amazing , runing a bit slow w/o chip or another add on,
but super FX1 on star fox runs at 21 mhz and the motorola z6800 at 7,67
he made a good job and is accurate in comparison of original,
again i must say..

Amazing !!!!
03-18-2013, 08:30 PM
kool kitty89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stef

I missed this one...
I have to use 64x64 for the background and unfortunately you cannot set different plan size for A & B.
But even without the background, if i use VRAM double buffering I will need at least 64 vertical size plan for bitmap plan (as i switch between two 20 tiles height screen), then now if we want to use the H40 video mode we end up to 64x64 plan size even for the bitmap plan.

Chilly Willy mentioned you can also use unnecessary chunks of the tilemap tables for data, here: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post564265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Just because the map is 64x64 doesn't mean you HAVE to use ALL of it... if you never scroll the screen, you can use just the 40x28 part needed for a 320x224 display and use the rest for tiles or other things. The only parts of a tile map that needs valid values are the entries that will be displayed, which also depends on the scrolling used. If you only scrolled horizontally by one column before reseting, you'd only need to worry about the 41x28 entries. Add one row vertically and you'd only worry about 41x29 entries. I use 128x32 in a number of my demos, where the first 80 columns are used for double-buffering layer A, and the next 40 columns are used for an unscrolling layer B, with the last 8 columns being unused. It's all up to the programmer to make effective use of both the tile maps and the unused vram.

Quote:

I don't care about using more than 1MB, up to 4MB is not a problem :)

A lot of options there then, including for sound/music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyron

Amazing , runing a bit slow w/o chip or another add on,
but super FX1 on star fox runs at 21 mhz and the motorola z6800 at 7,67
he made a good job and is accurate in comparison of original,
again i must say..

Super FX1 runs at 10.79 MHz, Super FX2 runs at 21.48 MHz. And clock speed alone isn't a great metric for CPU performance. (that said, the multiply and divide performance of the Super FX is much faster than the 68000 -important for 3D geometry, but it's also very primitive and limited for some other things -and there's other bottlenecks on the SNES in general)
A lot of CPU resource is eaten up with actually drawing the screen.
03-18-2013, 08:38 PM
Thunderblaze16

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Super FX1 runs at 10.79 MHz, Super FX2 runs at 21.48 MHz. And clock speed alone isn't a great metric for CPU performance. (that said, the multiply and divide performance of the Super FX is much faster than the 68000 -important for 3D geometry, but it's also very primitive and limited for some other things -and there's other bottlenecks on the SNES in general)
A lot of CPU resource is eaten up with actually drawing the screen.

O RLY? The Super FX2 is faster than the Supr FX1 you say?

Well blow me down...
03-18-2013, 11:44 PM
madmax2069

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyron

Amazing , runing a bit slow w/o chip or another add on,
but super FX1 on star fox runs at 21 mhz and the motorola z6800 at 7,67
he made a good job and is accurate in comparison of original,
again i must say..

Amazing !!!!

There is no such thing as a z6800. And the CPUs in the Genesis are a 68000 and z80.

There is a bit of difference between the 6800 and 68000. The 6800 is a 8bit and the 68000 a 16/32bit hybrid
03-22-2013, 12:30 PM
Pyron

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmax2069

There is no such thing as a z6800. And the CPUs in the Genesis are a 68000 and z80.

There is a bit of difference between the 6800 and 68000. The 6800 is a 8bit and the 68000 a 16/32bit hybrid

just a error of typing dude relax
03-22-2013, 01:56 PM
Pyron

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Super FX1 runs at 10.79 MHz, Super FX2 runs at 21.48 MHz. And clock speed alone isn't a great metric for CPU performance. (that said, the multiply and divide performance of the Super FX is much faster than the 68000 -important for 3D geometry, but it's also very primitive and limited for some other things -and there's other bottlenecks on the SNES in general)

Sure, but in terms of snes, all adicional clock and features helps.

And sorry my mistake, i'm talking about doom and super fx2 in another topic and i changing the clocks here with this subject in mind, i know about the diferences of the chips.

Anyway... the job of this guys and another games in the end life of mega drive proves how strong the sega hardware is in the wise hands
03-22-2013, 05:46 PM
evilevoix

Maybe get some SVP chips on this and make the game fly.

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