Final Fantasy 8 had very good quality MIDI as well:
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Final Fantasy 8 had very good quality MIDI as well:
Thanks Kamahl, great link.
Listen to these guys, "32 x sounds bad, yes Segas sound bad, no q sound in 32 x, it just all sounds bad sounds, bad, bad". Don't they know voices were from Genesis for VF and stuff and it sounds clear as hell and yeah snes doom sounds better than 32 x doom but the 32 x games sounded good like VR, Star Wars and others. So they just show the non polygon games then just say "it sounds real bad" and dub it 5th worst console (it's an add on, not "console" yes ? It's not stand alone). Now I see what Joe means about bad reputation.
"Edgar Rieken 1 week ago
"You complain about the sound quality of the 32X but the audio quality of this video here is awful!"
Ha ha.
A shoutout to Chilly.
"madmax2069 1 week ago
Its not the console that sucks, it was the pinheads at Sega that dropped the ball. The 32x is a nice piece of kit, and its very capable in the correct hands, which only a few development teams was back in the day. A Guy named chilly Willy is one such capable developer. It didn't help that Sega was the ones that pulled the plug on the 32x or we might have more and better games for the 32x today."
General MIDI can sound great to awesome with a good arrangment of a good composition catering to the format (and sample set). Even the crappy windows softsynth implementation of the roland sample set can sound pretty good with the right composition.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
There's a lot of crappy sounding stuff too though, and I think that has both to do with the format limitations and the limits of MIDI composition software (there's more advanced techniques for making actual arrangements than basic MIDI composing programs might allow, but still within the standard)
This would be a rather extreme example, given the chip-synth style: http://battleofthebits.org/arena/Ent...undation/5026/
And on the note of the YT videos, there's a lot of plain General MIDI stuff that still won't sound consistently better using XGSynth instruments (or others) compared to Roland ones (Yamaha Drums tend to be better though). Customized re-arrangements are another matter, of course. (not to mention custom tracker/midi arrangements using OPL3 could have a hugely dramatic difference from the generic OPL3 GM driver :p )
SC-88 on games supporting General MIDI sounds great too. I like some of the MT-32 renditions better, but the GM versions are almost always at least competitive. (they're just good remixes/arrangements in general)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
PC MT-32 compositions tended to fare very well overall, and I'll bet a lot of that had to do with the default, out of the box software available for composing with it . . . why that would be better than Roland's later General MIDI tools, I'm not sure though. (the transition to GM was a little rougher at times compared to the 1988 MT-32 introduction) I'm also going to bet that tools/support for Adlib/SB programming was also a lot more limited. (and you saw a lot less of 3rd parties working around that either . . . and no significant Japanese or European support to implement the common advanced chip synth techniques either)
It varies in general, but in this case, Sega's internal documentation and tools really weren't consistently better than what 3rd parties had to work with. And in terms of actual hardware documentation issues, that would mean trial and error and a lot of reverse engineering to actual trouble shoot problems if a developer actually did care about investing in good sound programming. (things like the Z80 bank switching overhead problems would probably have been among those -and something that wouldn't manifest until you attempted a multi-channel PCM driver . . . that said, it should still have been somewhat obvious since coding a driver as such would all be low-level and the programmer should have been aware that the bank switching was done by a serial shift register instead of a latch)Quote:
Originally Posted by djvectorman
There might have been some tricks or tools that SoJ teams never shared, but (especially sound-wise) there's not that much they actually used that would have improved things. (not sure if SMPS was widely available through the SDK, but it still would have been unattractive to many developers who used GEMS -due to the much more programming intensive interface vs the MIDI support and other features that made composition easy for non-programmers using GEMS -plus other convenience like support for realtime listening to test music without having to compile tracks to working game code and flash that to a cart to test it)
Now, the top tier sound engines and arrangements/compositions (be it synth quality and/or samples) tended to be from a few 3rd parties and it would make a lot more sense that they'd keep those internal . . . licensing them for royalties might have been interesting too. Same goes for programming techniques to help with things, though I'm not even sure several of the better methods used in modern homebrew were even common among the better drivers (there's very little out there anywhere close to what Tiido or Stef's drivers support sample wise, including Stef's updated driver that compensates for bus contention by using a double back buffer for PCM mixing in Z80 RAM). That said, of the existing 3rd party drivers actually used widely internally, I think some of EA's drivers or the Krysalis driver would have been the best direct alternatives to GEMS in terms of high-level feature sets for composition as well as sample quality. (EA's drivers don't have too many great examples in general, but that may very well be more due to the composers actually working on the stuff than the drivers in general, and their PCM quality was above average -Matt Furniss's Krysalis stuff was consistently good though)
The driver used for Mega Turrican also might have been an interesting option.
Yes, it's definiely subjective, since IMO the speech on SFII SNES sounds terrible too . . . it sounds horribly muddy, muffled, and so hacked up that it sounds nothing like natural speech either. (low quality samples that are heavily limited and cut down in duration on top of that) The MD samples sound bad in their own way, but at least they just sound like low quality versions of the arcade samples (and of actual speech in general) . . . same goes for the sampled sound effects (actual lower quality recorded sounds on the MD, but weird hacked-up, pitch-shifted, reverb-riddled, muffled mess on the SNES)Quote:
Speech isn't that subjective imo, if you have a good ear you can tell what is good or bad or comparative quickly. Is it really subjective that sf2 on snes sound better than md ? Sounds better.
It's REALLY obvious when you hear them side by side in the superpcenginegrafx.net comparison.
I'm going to make a guess that the MD and PC Engine versions used a fair bit more ROM space for the speech/SFX samples than the SNES did (WW or Turbo -which sound basically the same). I'm also going to guess that Capcom crammed all samples into SPC RAM and didn't stream anything on the fly (probably reloading some samples between stages), so that would be a pretty severe limitation on its own. (just 64 kB for all the speech, SFX, and music samples)
Thanks for that. It's a shame their youtube account got shut down. (I guess some of the stuff wasn't covered by fair use -those comparison videos certainly were, so I imagine it was some of the other videos, maybe the full soundtrack uploads, that ran into trouble)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
X68000 would be one of the worst cases of all. ;p If bone stock, you've got just 1 ADPCM channel, and no practical way to software mix either, so really limiting. (even with PCE CD you can at least opt to do software PCM -and up to 10 bit resolution too) That's a problem with PC88/PC98 too, with the ADPCM channel issues. (YM2608 is pretty restrictive in that way)Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
PC . . . with the lowest common denominator being the 8-bit Sound blaster (mono 8-bit PCM up to 44 kHz -or 23 kHz for 1.x) and the little used internal ADPCM decoding, it's better than what the MD has (and a lot more CPU grunt is intended for pretty much any early 90s games -progressively more as time went on), but there really wasn't that much impressive sample wise on the PC (consistently) until the multimedia revolution period (not all MM games, mind you, but around that time in general) and even then a ton of stuff was still supporting adlib sfx options (even the original X-Wing did a lot of SFX in adlib and had an option to do all SFX as such . . . and had very low quality speech/SFX samples -and just 1 channel). I wouldn't say it was until 1994/95 that PCs had consistently "impressive" PCM usage as such. (even then you had games being outdone by the Amiga in some cases -including low sample rate MOD players used by ports of some Virgin games, albeit dedicated SFX channels so no cutting music, and at the same time you had Epic and some others pushing much better sounding MOD stuff and some actually decent/good use of FM synth too -Wacky Wheels would be near the top of nice chip-synth, in spite of no PCM in music -still a real shame that PC music didn't commonly mix samples with FM like MD games did, if not more so -like actual sample synth combined with FM)
There's tons of music composed with MIDI or a MIDI-like tracker interface of some sort . . . of course, General MIDI as a format isn't the same as MIDI drivers in general. (many old DOS games used MIDI based drivers that didn't correspond to General MIDI, same with MD games, and I'm not sure I'm sure some Amiga and ST game stuff used some sort of MIDI based stuff for composition/arrangements -many more probably used more proprietary trackers, and obviously music module)Quote:
I've said it elsewhere, but I pretty much can't stand MIDI of any kind. I've even downloaded decent quality MIDI renditions of some of my favorite Genesis tracks, and can't stand them. People around here complain about Doom 32X's music, but to me it sounds better than DOS Doom in most of the songs.
Mat Furniss's stuff on the MD was all done using a tracker based sound driver, and it's some of the best on the system. (if GEMS had been on par with Krysalis, things would have been a bit different :p)
The problem with GEMS music quality was both a limited feature set and limited instrument set, unless you were willing to do customized programming for it (which I'm pretty sure EWJ, EWJ2, and Comix Zone did), and they certainly could have designed a better MIDI based sound engine and a better software interface for that in general. (having some of the tricks/features -like paired-channel instruments and added software driven effects- would have helped a lot too) That was a problem for PC MIDI drivers too. (and something very few games ever broke the barrier of -lack of echo/reverb, vibrato, modulation, etc effects are the primary reason for that "bland" sound -you get the same problem with older PSG based sound stuff too, with really bland and basic tunes, but also a ton of Japanese and Euro chiptunes pushing way beyond that)
Great post overall, but it's not really subjective in this case as we pretty much all agree for sf2 the tg16 is best, snes is 2nd best and md version is the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
"Yes, it's definiely subjective, since IMO the speech on SFII SNES sounds terrible too"
That may be so, but it's better than md version yes ? Pound for pound.
Virtua Racing does all sound using the Genesis . . . there's very few 32x games that actually push the added sound hardware+CPU grunt as such, and a big part of that problem was the documenation. (early dev kits having bugs including non-working DMA for PWM channels, and later docs never fixed that, so you had to drive the DACs in software, eating up a lot of CPU time) Most games using PWM make such poor use of it that you gain very little (or nothing at all) over what the MD can do alone, but a few dedicate enough SH2 resource to sound that it makes the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by djvectorman
Now, whether Sega could have effectively invested in a better standardized sound driver (to replace GEMS) is another argument entirely, but an interesting one. (ie if they could have managed something even half as capable as what Tiido or Stef have managed, that would have been really significant)
That and/or some modest added hardware on-cart to help things. :p (good programming/documentation would always be important to make the best of that too, so you'd potentially have the crappy examples becoming more decent and the good or great examples becoming that much better -not necessarily even across the board since some developers would fair better in some areas than others . . . hell, Toy Story on the MD already included a bunch of samples what were only used in the intro/ending MOD music, but some basic DMA sound hardware on-cart might have facilitated in-game MOD music too -let alone a mix of FM and more advanced PCM usage . . . and potentially at better quality than the relatively crappy software MOD player Toy Story used)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRXlrYyFxSg
The 32x being bad from an actual technical/business standpoint has nothing to do with its actual design or what it's capable of and everything to do with Sega's overall situation at the time. As a retro console to collect for and homebrew develop for it's neat and quirky and a lot of fun, and from a historical perspective it's interesting in its own right, but at the same time it didn't make much sense with all things considered (from the perspective of early 1994 or mid 1994 for that matter) in the context of all of Sega's other developments at the time and (most specifically) Sega's obvious alternatives for filling the same targets for what the 32x has. (and I'm including the targets which make less sense in hindsight but still made decent sense in 1994 -so something that reasonable planning and organization should have dictated at the time with the given market alternatives -not to get into other hindsight about things Sega could have done prior to 1994 ;) )Quote:
Its not the console that sucks, it was the pinheads at Sega that dropped the ball. The 32x is a nice piece of kit, and its very capable in the correct hands, which only a few development teams was back in the day. A Guy named chilly Willy is one such capable developer. It didn't help that Sega was the ones that pulled the plug on the 32x or we might have more and better games for the 32x today."
That the premise of my thread here: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...32x-Make-Sense
I believe VF does too. I know the voices come out of Genesis (and sky and ground for graphics).Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Yeah but I played every 32 x game + chillys and overall they don't sound bad at all. Not all ALL like they make out in that video.Quote:
there's very few 32x games that actually push the added sound hardware+CPU grunt as such,
And again, that is a problem. Why didn't they just explain it correctly or revise the info and share ?Quote:
and a big part of that problem was the documenation. (early dev kits having bugs including non-working DMA for PWM channels, and later docs never fixed that, so you had to drive the DACs in software, eating up a lot of CPU time) Most games using PWM make such poor use of it that you gain very little (or nothing at all) over what the MD can do alone, but a few dedicate enough SH2 resource to sound that it makes the difference.
Well Stef just used a converter right ? Like taking wav and compress to 4 bit for Bad Apple?Quote:
Now, whether Sega could have effectively invested in a better standardized sound driver (to replace GEMS) is another argument entirely, but an interesting one. (ie if they could have managed something even half as capable as what Tiido or Stef have managed, that would have been really significant)
Exactly.Quote:
[b\(good programming/documentation would always be important to make the best of that too, so you'd potentially have the crappy examples becoming more decent and the good or great examples becoming that much better -not necessarily even across the board since some developers would fair better in some areas than others[/b] . . . hell, Toy Story on the MD already included a bunch of samples what were only used in the intro/ending MOD music, but some basic DMA sound hardware on-cart might have facilitated in-game MOD music too -let alone a mix of FM and more advanced PCM usage . . . and potentially at better quality than the relatively crappy software MOD player Toy Story used)
Agree.Quote:
The 32x being bad from an actual technical/business standpoint has nothing to do with its actual design or what it's capable of and everything to do with Sega's overall situation at the time.
Yes hopefully more games get "ported" to it.Quote:
As a retro console to collect for and homebrew develop for it's neat and quirky and a lot of fun
Agree.Quote:
, and from a historical perspective it's interesting in its own right, but at the same time it didn't make much sense with all things considered (from the perspective of early 1994 or mid 1994 for that matter) in the context of all of Sega's other developments at the time and (most specifically) Sega's obvious alternatives for filling the same targets for what the 32x has. (and I'm including the targets which make less sense in hindsight but still made decent sense in 1994 -so something that reasonable planning and organization should have dictated at the time with the given market alternatives -not to get into other hindsight about things Sega could have done prior to 1994 ;) )
That the premise of my thread here: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...32x-Make-Sense
I can't say I like the sound of either. If pressed, I'd perhaps favor the MD speech in SCE over WW/Turbo. They're both crap in different ways, so it's really a matter of what sort of degradation bothers you more.Quote:
Originally Posted by djvectorman
You decide: http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/sf...omp_sound.html
The only thing I can say definitively is that, on a pure technical level, the MD sound effects and speech are definitely closer to the arcade than the SNES.
In fact, compared to the arcade, the PCE and MD versions share relatively similar artifacting overall, the MD is just lower quality and more distorted (both from lower sample rate and playback issues). They did a good job optimizing the samples for the 7 kHz 5-bit playback used on the PCE.
For that reason, some people might actually prefer the SNES SFX over the PCE's due to the different sort of artifacting. (like if they mind some scratchy/static sound more than super low quality interpolated and heavily filtered -and hacked up/edited- samples on the SNES . . . there's actually quite a bit of distortion there too, but it's different -more obvious if you listen in an emulator with filter and interpolation enabled)
It's also interesting to not that with unfiltered (or moderately filtered) PCM playback, you've got a lot of control over the actual output quality via preprocessing. You could avoid a lot of artifacting or scratchiness by heavily pre-filtering the samples during conversion (on top of other optimization for better SNR you'd want to use regardless). So it's up to the developer to decide the preferred aesthetics of "muffled" vs "bright" and where to make the compromise. (on the Amiga, you also have some software control over external filtering, though preprocessing is the best option overall, particularly since it allows optimization on a per-sample basis rather than filtering everything)
It's also not just about sample rate or general quality of conversion either, but the type of sound being sampled or the tone/pitch of the speech, since some will sound inherently better than others in a given format. (some meriting prefiltering more than others, and/or working better in some formats than others too -high pitched sounds might fare better as 4-bit PCM than 8-bit PCM at 1/2 the sample rate, while lower pitched sounds may be the opposite, and once you get to a certain bitrate 8-bit would be better for everything -the latte happens somewhere around 40 kbps which would mean 20 kHz 4-bit vs 10 kHz 8-bit -and that's not getting into nonlinear PCM like ulaw or DPCM/ADPCM compression which have their own trade-offs too, including 4-bit linear PCM sounding better than 4-bit DPCM or ADPCM at low bitrates and more for some sounds than others)
Edit: Actually, the muffled (and less "scratchy") voices in SSFII on the MD is almost certainly directly related to preprocessing. The sound engine still has major problems with distorted playback though. (and that's the main source of artifacting there)
I was pretty sure VF did all samples (music and FX/speech) through the 32x's PWM, and checking in an emulator (Gens/GS), that definitely seems to be the case. I'm not sure why you think it uses the MD sound only . . . (all 32x sound is mixed into the Genesis through the cart slot, so PWM sounds will always be there even with the mixing cable unplugged).Quote:
Originally Posted by djvectorman
Limited resources, problematic communication, not to mention potential problems in translation (manufacturing and some of the debugging and hardware design was handled in Japan, so the language barrier was a problem . . . albeit in a more complex way than the typical "hardware designed in one region" one -like the MD/MCD/or Saturn where you just had the problem of translation errors compounding original errors or omissions in the Japanese documentation :p ) It wasn't a problem limited to 3rd parties either, but all developers. (no 32x game ever used DMA sound, and no homebrew prior to Chilly Willy's 32x DMA sound demos either . . . and only then because of sample code leaked from a Sega diagnostic cart that was dumped to the homebrew community)Quote:
And again, that is a problem. Why didn't they just explain it correctly or revise the info and share ?
Properly documenting hardware is a major investment, and for older, more primitive designs, it wasn't that big a deal for developers to figure out any quirks or bugs on their own until the 16-bit consoles came around (finally becoming complex enough to actually be problematic to manage all that reverse engineering) and it became a serious problem with every platform released thereafter. (a problem that was sometimes addressed well and other times not . . . or not addressed at all in the case of the Sega CD or early Saturn documenation -let alone actual tool sets)
Atari (or Flare) actually did a pretty decent job with documentation as such on the Jaguar, with many updates and revisions to the developer manual. They didn't do a great job with development tools (compilers and such), but they at least they kept an open dialog with developers and continually updated the docs for additional bugs and workarounds being discovered (as far as 3rd parties were willing to share). Had Atari had better management and funding, they probably would have invested more in developing more usable tools (including licensing from 3rd parties) as well and doing internal trouble shooting and workarounds. Of course, they at least never had a major language barrier to work with since all the documentation was English from day 1.
He had to code the converter software himself though, and that's in addition to any other preprocessing used to optimize that. And that's just the encoding end of things, not the sample playback engine, let alone an overall sound+music engine. (Bad Apple uses his sound engine, but it's not a demo of its overall capabilities . . . his can do 4 16 kHz 4-bit DPCM channels or 2 22 kHz 4-bit DPCM channels along with CPU time left over for music handling -using similar code for plain linear PCM handling could probably allow some other things and/or more time for music handling -Tiido's engine does 2 channel 22 kHz 8-bit PCM, and that's what Pier Solar uses)Quote:
Well Stef just used a converter right ? Like taking wav and compress to 4 bit for Bad Apple?
There's a demo of TmEE's (Tiido) driver here:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/...MFPLAY1234.BIN
You are the only person I saw or heard that mentioned they prefer a MD sf2 voice over SNES version. I'm not taking a shot at you here, but if you can't see too good and your opinion is there is no Moon or you can't hear too good and say all 3 sound the same in your opinion that don't mean it changes what's true. If you had to choose between SF2 (original version for SNES) or SF2CE (original MD version) what will you choose ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
I decided 20 years ago the snes voices were better between the snes and md version, it's obvious to me and almost everyone else, I still stand by that and today and I decided the tg16 version sounds the best of all 3 when I saw Kamahl post that link earlier today.Quote:
Instead of getting technical, just listen to how they are outputted and what sounds "best" when you hear them.Quote:
The only thing I can say definitively is that, on a pure technical level, the MD sound effects and speech are definitely closer to the arcade than the SNES. In fact, compared to the arcade, the PCE and MD versions share relatively similar artifacting overall, the MD is just lower quality and more distorted (both from lower sample rate and playback issues). They did a good job optimizing the samples for the 7 kHz 5-bit playback used on the PCE.
For that reason, some people might actually prefer the SNES SFX over the PCE's due to the different sort of artifacting. (like if they mind some scratchy/static sound more than super low quality interpolated and heavily filtered -and hacked up/edited- samples on the SNES . . . there's actually quite a bit of distortion there too, but it's different -more obvious if you listen in an emulator with filter and interpolation enabled)
Yeah.Quote:
It's also interesting to not that with unfiltered (or moderately filtered) PCM playback, you've got a lot of control over the actual output quality via preprocessing. You could avoid a lot of artifacting or scratchiness by heavily pre-filtering the samples during conversion (on top of other optimization for better SNR you'd want to use regardless). So it's up to the developer to decide the preferred aesthetics of "muffled" vs "bright" and where to make the compromise. (on the Amiga, you also have some software control over external filtering, though preprocessing is the best option overall, particularly since it allows optimization on a per-sample basis rather than filtering everything)
Yeah.Quote:
It's also not just about sample rate or general quality of conversion either, but the type of sound being sampled or the tone/pitch of the speech, since some will sound inherently better than others in a given format. (some meriting prefiltering more than others, and/or working better in some formats than others too -high pitched sounds might fare better as 4-bit PCM than 8-bit PCM at 1/2 the sample rate, while lower pitched sounds may be the opposite, and once you get to a certain bitrate 8-bit would be better for everything -the latte happens somewhere around 40 kbps which would mean 20 kHz 4-bit vs 10 kHz 8-bit -and that's not getting into nonlinear PCM like ulaw or DPCM/ADPCM compression which have their own trade-offs too, including 4-bit linear PCM sounding better than 4-bit DPCM or ADPCM at low bitrates and more for some sounds than others)
Okay, but the end result is almost everyone says sf2 snes voices are better than mds sf voices. And the tg16 is best of all 3.Quote:
Edit: Actually, the muffled (and less "scratchy") voices in SSFII on the MD is almost certainly directly related to preprocessing. The sound engine still has major problems with distorted playback though. (and that's the main source of artifacting there)
So VR does but VF doesn't ? Hear is why, @ 8:10 to end. Do you know that for a fact ? Why did sheath tell me last week and you tell me today VR has audio from Genesis, how do you know ? I'm curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Okay.Quote:
Limited resources, problematic communication, not to mention potential problems in translation (manufacturing and some of the debugging and hardware design was handled in Japan, so the language barrier was a problem . . . albeit in a more complex way than the typical "hardware designed in one region" one -like the MD/MCD/or Saturn where you just had the problem of translation errors compounding original errors or omissions in the Japanese documentation :p ) It wasn't a problem limited to 3rd parties either, but all developers. (no 32x game ever used DMA sound, and no homebrew prior to Chilly Willy's 32x DMA sound demos either . . . and only then because of sample code leaked from a Sega diagnostic cart that was dumped to the homebrew community)
Properly documenting hardware is a major investment, and for older, more primitive designs, it wasn't that big a deal for developers to figure out any quirks or bugs on their own until the 16-bit consoles came around (finally becoming complex enough to actually be problematic to manage all that reverse engineering) and it became a serious problem with every platform released thereafter. (a problem that was sometimes addressed well and other times not . . . or not addressed at all in the case of the Sega CD or early Saturn documenation -let alone actual tool sets)
Atari (or Flare) actually did a pretty decent job with documentation as such on the Jaguar, with many updates and revisions to the developer manual. They didn't do a great job with development tools (compilers and such), but they at least they kept an open dialog with developers and continually updated the docs for additional bugs and workarounds being discovered (as far as 3rd parties were willing to share). Had Atari had better management and funding, they probably would have invested more in developing more usable tools (including licensing from 3rd parties) as well and doing internal trouble shooting and workarounds. Of course, they at least never had a major language barrier to work with since all the documentation was English from day 1.
Thanks.Quote:
He had to code the converter software himself though, and that's in addition to any other preprocessing used to optimize that. And that's just the encoding end of things, not the sample playback engine, let alone an overall sound+music engine. (Bad Apple uses his sound engine, but it's not a demo of its overall capabilities . . . his can do 4 16 kHz 4-bit DPCM channels or 2 22 kHz 4-bit DPCM channels along with CPU time left over for music handling -using similar code for plain linear PCM handling could probably allow some other things and/or more time for music handling -Tiido's engine does 2 channel 22 kHz 8-bit PCM, and that's what Pier Solar uses)
There's a demo of TmEE's (Tiido) driver here:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/...MFPLAY1234.BIN
It was only Sega on their Shining Force fan hunt. I never received a single copyright violation notice until my account was suddenly deleted. I creayted a new account, but haven't had time to post much yet. I'm going to look for higher quality versions of videos that I might have before uploading anything. Most were limited by current youtube standards at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Damn, sorry to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
It might have something to do with where you frequent on the internet, but you have to take into consideration that the majority of people commenting online about 16-bit games are uninformed Nintendo fans and usually ignorant of non-Nintendo consoles. You should also be aware that in these kinds of comparisons, too many people don't actually pay attention to what they're listening to. Especially with music comparisons, most people ignore composition/performance and just wait for the familiar sound of their preferred console and how close anything is to that sound is the measure of how good anything is.Quote:
Originally Posted by djvectorman
It is very telling, and you are guilty of this, when people making superficial judgments in comparisons, can't quantify in detail the pros and cons, or worse, -cannot understand the flaws in their favorite and/or the more popular console, even when it is broken down for them. Rarely is it as cut and dry as one is "just good" and one is "just bad". Most people who say that a sound is bad on Genesis but great on SNES are only judging by "scratchiness". Beginning and end of judgment. There is no better example than SFII sample commentary. People heard scratchy voices (oblivious to the sound effects) when playing/watching the Genesis version and that was it, no need to even listen to the SNES version for comparison. Even though World Warrior (and later Turbo) for SNES had completely butchered, distorted, muffled and reverbed "voice" samples all along. Even when credit is given to the PC Engine versions voice samples (after most people figure out what the hell a PC Engine is), it's usually that they're (maybe) "a little clearer" than the SNES version. The difference of the actual clips is never noticed, no matter how radically different they are are. All that they're listening for is scratchiness/"clarity".
Take a clip like "Hadouken!"
Speed it up till it's unnatural sounding for timing and pitch, just to shorten the length.
Chop it up into thin slivers and isolate them, so all that's left is H....D...kn.
Drop the quality down but filter it with muffling.
Reverb it so it sounds like it is playing in a garbage can.
Echo a bunch of these hatchet jobs to stretch them out painfully further.
= Beautiful sounding samples
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take a sound clip, no matter how long and drawn out.
Do not edit it or mess up the speed/pitch or distort it in any way.
Lower the quality
= "crappy samples"
It's the same as the difference between these two pic-
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/mdsound1.pnghttp://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/snessound1.png
Unfortunately, most people will champion the beauty of the pic on the right, while trashing the quality of the pic to the left. Most unfortunate of all though, is that those who make up the majority honestly believe that popular opinion is the only true measure of anything and fact based discussion is for "fanboys".
I'm not basing it on popular opinion, I based it on my ears, which are great as an engineer.