Genre by Genre: Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation worldwide libraries comparison

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05-30-2013, 06:10 PM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I was considering including Legends, but I'm not sure if we should consider that a 2D Fighter or some kind of 3D/2D Hybrid beat'em up.

Either way, Saturn version is better for this game.
05-30-2013, 06:11 PM
The Jackal

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Sorry, got it confused with GT Final Bout.

Final Bout is trash, but I have a small soft spot for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I was considering including Legends, but I'm not sure if we should consider that a 2D Fighter or some kind of 3D/2D Hybrid beat'em up.

It plays on a 2D field, so I'd count it as a 2D fighter.
05-30-2013, 06:12 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

By matter of sheer frame rate I'd say that's true. Though the PS1 version does play faster even though it's choppier if I remember correctly.

I guess the question to ask then is does anyone mind if we include DBZ Legends as a 2D Fighter for both systems?
05-30-2013, 06:12 PM
profholt82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

I hate sticks though and I do know about 3rd party pads but what 3rd party pads emulate a 6 button layout and is actually good?

Well, I own these 2, and love them both. I use them for almost all PS1,2 & 3 games that do not require the analog sticks.

This is the Street Fighter 15th Anniversary Controller for the PS2.
http://www.orang3.net/store/welcome/...nt_imgs/07.jpg

And this is the Street Fighter x Tekken fightpad for the PS3. It's personally more comfortable for me than the PS2 one. It obviously has a USB connection so it only works with the PS3, but I often play my PS1 games on the PS3.
http://ugrgaming.com/wp-content/uplo...s3-1.jpg?w=300

They are both wired as I try to avoid wireless controllers for fighting games because there tends to be some lag in the response time. Also, they are available in other styles if these don’t strike your fancy.
05-30-2013, 06:13 PM
j_factor

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

You could probably also put Marvel vs Capcom on the PS1's list. While not a very good port of the Arcade and no where near as good as the Dreamcast port, it's still a fighter that the Saturn doesn't have.

That's a bit silly. It's a bad port and shouldn't count for shit. That's like putting Grandia II on a list of PS2 games. I don't care if the discussion is PS2 vs. Xbox, Grandia II is a Dreamcast game and we should all just pretend the PS2 version doesn't exist.
05-30-2013, 06:24 PM
Da_Shocker

Quote:

Originally Posted by profholt82

Well, I own these 2, and love them both. I use them for almost all PS1,2 & 3 games that do not require the analog sticks.

This is the Street Fighter 15th Anniversary Controller for the PS2.
http://www.orang3.net/store/welcome/...nt_imgs/07.jpg

And this is the Street Fighter x Tekken fightpad for the PS3. It's personally more comfortable for me than the PS2 one. It obviously has a USB connection so it only works with the PS3, but I often play my PS1 games on the PS3.
http://ugrgaming.com/wp-content/uplo...s3-1.jpg?w=300

They are both wired as I try to avoid wireless controllers for fighting games because there tends to be some lag in the response time. Also, they are available in other styles if these don’t strike your fancy.

I was kinda hoping for stuff on the PSx. I do own the Guile controller for the XBox and it well it still sucks compared to the Saturn pad. Hell I hated the DC version too. I do own a USB Saturn controller but I don't think it worked well on the PS2 games on the PS3.

*edit*
I will check for that PS3 pad as it looks nice as hell.
05-30-2013, 08:51 PM
sheath

I've got very little to offer in the way of knowledge of the Japanese or PAL libraries, but I can at least contribute 2D fighters for both systems chronologically and mention whether or not I have seen them recommended over the years.

Recommended: Yes
Not Recommended: Blank
Disqualified: No

1995
Saturn:
Dark Legend Yes
Primal Rage
Street Fighter the Movie

PS1:
Mortal Kombat 3 No
Primal Rage
WWF Wrestlemania the Arcade Game

1996
Saturn:
Galaxy Fight Yes
Golden Axe The Duel Yes
Mortal Kombat II No
Night Warriors: Dark Stalkers' Revenge Yes
Street Fighter Alpha Yes
Street Fighter Alpha 2 Yes
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 Yes
WWF Wrestlemania the Arcade Game
X-Men: Children of the Atom Yes

PS1:
Dark Stalkers: The Night Warriors
King of Fighters '95
Mortal Kombat Trilogy Yes
Stret Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha 2

1997
Saturn:
Marvel Super Heroes Yes
Mortal Kombat Trilogy Yes
Street Fighter Collection Yes

PS1:
Dragon Ball GT Final Bout
Marvel Super Heroes
Street Fighter Collection 2
05-30-2013, 08:59 PM
Barone

People, don't keep yourselves from commenting about any details or anything related to the games already listed. I pretend to add the valuable info in a column of "notes" about each version of these game (yes, the lists will be converted into tables at the right time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by profholt82

All right, cool topic, Barone.

Thanks! :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by profholt82

I'll weigh in for the PSX. As far as 2D fighters on the system go, I can only vouch for the NTSC releases, but of those, I have played the vast majority of them and I think these 5 are the best on the system:

Those are very good suggestions, thanks.
Capcom vs. SNK Pro is a bit down IMO due to the loading times but, yes, I also had some very good moments playing it with my friends.
Guilty Gear is a very good game which sometimes people just forget about...

Samurai Shodown III framerate and animation cuts are below par IMO. Especially considering the availability of the Saturn version. I think I'll keep this one out, for the sake of the quality in these lists. But, no, it's not abysmal neither as bad as Garou Densetsu 3 on the Saturn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

I'd do a shooter list but I really don't care for most arcade ports on 32 bit consoles so I don't have enough experience to talk. Radiant Silvergun + Panzer Dragoon Zwei are enough to sway me to the saturn, together with better versions of TF V and Soukyugurentai (slowdown ruins the PS1 version). Ray Storm is slightly better on the PS1 but the Saturn version is competent enough (I'd say it's a mirror of the TF V case). Philosoma and G Darius are pretty cool too as is Cotton Boomerang on the Saturn.

The right time will come for the shooter's discussion and your suggestions will be considered for sure. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

SFA3 on PS1 was a smashing port and one of my fave games on the systems.

Dragon Ball Z Shin Butoden has a PS1 counterpart: DBZ Ultimate Battle 22, which came first. It's absolute horseshit, mixing low res 2D fighters in some of the most ugliest, blandest looking 3D backdrops I've ever seen.

Shin Butoden takes all the characters from the PS1 effort, revamps the fighting engine, adds more shine, throws in a ton of extra modes, and best of all: it uses 2D backgrounds. It's still not much of a good game, but it's light-years in front of the PSX version.

Ultimate Battle saw a late 2002 release in the West after it's original 1996 Japanese release; Shin Butoden remained Japan-only.

EDIT: There's also Dragon Ball Z: The Legend/s, which is not a standard fighter, but it's 2D and you fight in it. Also the best DBZ game of that era (imo).

Great stuff man! Thanks for the info!
The good ones will be added, for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I think there is a PS1 and possibly even a 3DO port of the Sailor Moon Fighter as well.

Yes, yes. To be honest, I think the 3DO version looks a bit better. But I need a bit more time to judge those versions properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I agree with Darkstalkers 3 and Street Fighter Alpha 3 for the PS1. While they are obviously not as good as the Saturn versions, they are still competent Fighters and pretty solid ports if you don't want to dish out money for the Saturn ports. Same with Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter collection. While the Saturn ports are again better, in this case the differences are marginal. It's kind of the mirror instance of Mortal Kombat Trilogy. Street Fighter Alpha 2 is leaps and bounds better on the Saturn over the PS1, but miraculously Capcom somehow made the port of Alpha 2 Gold a bit better to make it an acceptable alternative I'd say. The Saturn port is still better for the most part, but some of the more glaring issues with the PS1 port of Alpha 2 were fixed if I remember correctly.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

You could probably also put Marvel vs Capcom on the PS1's list. While not a very good port of the Arcade and no where near as good as the Dreamcast port, it's still a fighter that the Saturn doesn't have.

I think it's a decent enough conversion for the hardware. No abysmal loadings, frame cuts or slowdowns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by profholt82

On a side note, I see that some are complaining about the PS d-pad for fighting games. Obviously the Saturn controller is superior to the PS controller for fighting games, I don't think anyone can argue that point. However, the controller argument should be a moot point when comparing titles due to the simple fact that one can always use a fighting pad or arcade stick to play the games (I know I do). The games should be judged on their own merit, not by the stock controllers of each respective system.

This.
Of course, it's value to complain about the default 1st party controller of the system, however, we are talking about the software side of things here. If the game has bad controls is one thing, if your controller is bad is another thing.
If a game has flaws in the way it process the inputs, like when some specials are almost impossible to perform in one specific version of the game regardless the controller used, then it's a game flaw; also like when a game lacks analog controller support when it should have.
Better default layout for certain games is also good to point in some cases. The Saturn controller doesn't have the better layout in all cases IMO (despite its far superior construction quality and design), like for MK and SNK games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

If we were including Dreamcast then I'd agree the PS1 port shouldn't be mentioned. But with just Saturn and PS1 I'd say the PS1 does put up a pretty good fight here. While the Saturn port is obviously the better port if not the best port ever, there's no shame in owning the PS1 port.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

I hate sticks though and I do know about 3rd party pads but what 3rd party pads emulate a 6 button layout and is actually good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by profholt82

Well, I own these 2, and love them both. I use them for almost all PS1,2 & 3 games that do not require the analog sticks.

With the standard PS1 layout, I'd recommend:
- ASCII Specialized Pad (there are different specific names depending on the region but go by this picture):
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...pscc4c72c5.jpg
Minded prices on ebay (not considering shipment): 1$-20$ (Japanese version usually starts at $15)
Availability: Common.

- Sunsoft Sunstation:
http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/img309.auc...tbpqr80255.jpg
Minded prices on ebay (not considering shipment): 10$-30$ (Japanese version usually starts at $15 as well)
Availability: Not rare, not common.
Comments: This one has better construction quality and feels more comfort than the ASCII one; I love this pad. Very close and smooth action buttons, it's a dream for SNK fighters.
It also has programmable turbo and auto fire for each button, as well as 3 programmable buttons for special moves (those aren't very useful though).
It's my default pad for most of 2D PS1 games.

6-button layout (not mentioned yet):
- Hori Fighting Commander 2-Way
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/...controller.jpg
Minded prices on ebay (not considering shipment): 15$-40$ (Japanese version usually starts at $20)
Availability: Hard to come by for good prices but not very rare.
Comments: Japanese version is made in Japan, UK version is made in China; so the first has a bit better construction quality but it's not a big difference. The D-Pad feels a bit cheap but it works great and it's small, so it's easy to perform full circle or half-circle moves. There's a switch you can use to exchange the mapping of L and R button, THIS makes a HUGE difference in favor of this controller. Also, its design provides better weight balance than the 10B model. The separation of the action button is larger than I would like, as in most of the Hori controllers of any console, but this one is still better than the 10B model in this regard as well. The buttons are small and the design of the controller actually allows you to reach all buttons easily.
Lacks turbo and auto-fire options.
This is my default controller for Capcom fighters on the PS1.

- Hori Fighting Commander 10B
http://oi43.tinypic.com/wvwl6b.jpg
Minded prices on ebay (not considering shipment): 25$-50$
Availability: Very hard to come by for good prices. Rare.
Comments: At first, it will look like the ultimate 2D pad for the PS1. It has 10 buttons, turbo and auto-fire switches for each one and looks great... But then you play with it and you realize it has a few flaws, even compared with the simpler 2-Way model: weight of the controller is a bit unbalanced so it's not so comfortable to hold for a long time; despite the 10 buttons, the actions are L1 and R1 and can't be remapped which will cause problems with some games; to handle it is a bit awkward for fighting games and you can't squeeze it as much as you can with the 2-Way model. More fail-prone than the 2-Way model as well.
Still a good controller but not as good as it appears to be.

- PS2 Neo Geo Pad
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...5-13101115.jpg
Minded prices on ebay (not considering shipment): 30$-60$
Availability: Very hard to come by for good prices. Kinda common but mostly pricey
Comments: It's like the Neo Geo CD pad with 6-button layout. The microswitched directional controller is not recommended to all sorts of 2D games IMO though, it's mostly a fighting/shooter only controller, I find it too smooth (which leads you to imprecise moves) for 2D platformers; for an example.
Some people will find this the best option of all, especially the Neo Geo CD owners, but I really didn't like ti all that much. Actually, I had better results trying to pull off moves using the Sunstation pad with SNK games.
Also, it shares the same problem of the 10B controller: you'll be stuck with L1 and R1 as the face buttons and, actually, it's even worse here since you have only 8 buttons this time.
Construction quality is superb though and it does look sexy as hell (pictures don't do it any justice IMO).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I guess the question to ask then is does anyone mind if we include DBZ Legends as a 2D Fighter for both systems?

I think it's a good addition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_factor

That's a bit silly. It's a bad port and shouldn't count for shit. That's like putting Grandia II on a list of PS2 games. I don't care if the discussion is PS2 vs. Xbox, Grandia II is a Dreamcast game and we should all just pretend the PS2 version doesn't exist.

Bad port? I don't think so... It's bare bones, yes, but the first X-Men fighting game is what I would call a bad port on the PS1.
By your logic, we should also remove MK3 and UMK3 from all Mega Drive and SNES lists since they have much better ports on the PS1 and Saturn.

However, I think you have to consider the hardware capabilities here and the Dreamcast is a console from another generation, I don't think a direct comparison is valid. Also, most of the gameplay is retained by the PS1 port.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheath

I've got very little to offer in the way of knowledge of the Japanese or PAL libraries, but I can at least contribute 2D fighters for both systems chronologically and mention whether or not I have seen them recommended over the years.

Good one! Thanks a lot!

What's the problem with MK3 on the PS1?

Also, couldn't we let the WWF Wrestlemania game for a 2D Wrestling genre despite it being a black MK-sheep?
05-30-2013, 09:05 PM
Barone

Also, what you guys think about the Saturn version of Ragnagard?
I think we should include that one as well.
05-30-2013, 09:06 PM
sheath

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

Good one! Thanks a lot!

What's the problem with MK3 on the PS1?

Also, couldn't we let the WWF Wrestlemania game for a 2D Wrestling genre despite it being a black MK-sheep?

If I recall MK3 was shot down repeatedly for excessive load times and nothing really remarkable over the 16-bit iterations gameplay wise. I always thought that should be leveled at all of the PS1 and Saturn MK games, but people praise the other ones. I'm okay with moving Wrestlemania Arcade over to a pure wrastlin' game, it just plays more like a fighting game.
05-30-2013, 09:15 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Well, I can understand some not wanting Marvel vs Capcom in there. The main feature of the game, tag-team fighting, is missing after all. However in this situation we don't really have an alternative for that specific game.

And I looked more into the Sailor Moon game. The 3DO one is actually a different game, its based on Sailor Moon S, not SuperS. And you are right about it looking nicer, it actually uses hand-drawn sprites that match the Anime. The Saturn/PS1 game for some reason uses god awful CGI sprites that look ridiculous. If the Saturn and PS1 game used hand-drawn sprites that matched the source material they would instantly go up in quality.

I don't see any problems with including Mortal Kombat 3 for the Playstation. But if we include the Wrestlemania Arcade game we should probably include the Saturn port of it as well as WWF In Your House for both.

I don't have a problem with including Ragnagard if you want to. But I'm not sure about how the quality of it really stacks up. I haven't really played it and it looks like one of those cheesy digitized fighters from the 90's. Though I guess if we are including games like Primal Rage we might as well include Ragnagard.
05-30-2013, 09:28 PM
MrSega

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

If we were including Dreamcast then I'd agree the PS1 port shouldn't be mentioned. But with just Saturn and PS1 I'd say the PS1 does put up a pretty good fight here. While the Saturn port is obviously the better port if not the best port ever, there's no shame in owning the PS1 port.

The Saturn port makes use of the 4MB cart and has some impressive animation. Since the DC port is pretty damn easy to find, there's no point in investing on the PS1 version unless you don't care for SEGA systems.
05-30-2013, 09:29 PM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheath

If I recall MK3 was shot down repeatedly for excessive load times and nothing really remarkable over the 16-bit iterations gameplay wise. I always thought that should be leveled at all of the PS1 and Saturn MK games, but people praise the other ones. I'm okay with moving Wrestlemania Arcade over to a pure wrastlin' game, it just plays more like a fighting game.

Funny that you got such input since UMK3 Saturn is just a port of PS1's MK3 with some tweaks to look like UMK3 (AI keeps being from MK3, which actually is a big plus since the Arcade one was pretty lame, cheap and hard as balls). UMK3 on the Saturn has the very same (if not longer) loading times of PS1 MK3, so, I don't get it. And we are talking about around 10 secs to load the fight and no additional loadings between rounds; I've seen a lot worse.
About the content, yes, as all other 32-bit MK ports, PS1 Mk3 left several things out (round announcer samples, for an example) but, still, it delivers major upgrades compared to the 16-bit ports; just look at the backgrounds (I think all parallax layers are there, to not talk about the colors), characters sprites and listen to the far superior quality sfx and voices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Well, I can understand some not wanting Marvel vs Capcom in there. The main feature of the game, tag-team fighting, is missing after all. However in this situation we don't really have an alternative for that specific game.

Yes, it's a difficult decision.
I think we should include it, but I'll put it along with the borderline ones for being just a bare bones port and missing the true tag-team mode (Wiki says: The port, however, contains a "crossover" mode that allows tag team play with identical teams (the character player 1 chooses, becomes the partner for the opposite). This version also offers three exclusive bonuses that aren't presented in the Dreamcast version; beating the game with Mega Man allows him to use the Magnetic Shockwave super attack teased in his ending, an ending collection, and an art gallery.). I'll also include notes about the lacking modes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

And I looked more into the Sailor Moon game. The 3DO one is actually a different game, its based on Sailor Moon S, not SuperS. And you are right about it looking nicer, it actually uses hand-drawn sprites that match the Anime.

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

The Saturn/PS1 game for some reason uses god awful CGI sprites that look ridiculous. If the Saturn and PS1 game used hand-drawn sprites that matched the source material they would instantly go up in quality.

Yep.
Should we keep the game or drop it from both lists?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I don't see any problems with including Mortal Kombat 3 for the Playstation. But if we include the Wrestlemania Arcade game we should probably include the Saturn port of it as well as WWF In Your House for both.

WWF In Your House? No, please, God, noooooooooooooo... hehe Yeah, it's THAT bad.
Yes, both versions of WWF Arcade have their ups and downs, both worth listing, but the PS1's is better overall; even if for the almost half-length loading times when compared to the Saturn's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I don't have a problem with including Ragnagard if you want to. But I'm not sure about how the quality of it really stacks up. I haven't really played it and it looks like one of those cheesy digitized fighters from the 90's. Though I guess if we are including games like Primal Rage we might as well include Ragnagard.

Primal Rage is already there. But only the Saturn version qualifies IMO (PS1 version has some awful loadings, inferior colors and other stuff).
Ragnagard's CG models do look dated and cheesy as hell, but, hey, it plays great and the Saturn version has some extras.
05-30-2013, 09:31 PM
TrekkiesUnite118

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSega

The Saturn port makes use of the 4MB cart and has some impressive animation. Since the DC port is pretty damn easy to find, there's no point in investing on the PS1 version unless you don't care for SEGA systems.

Yes, we know. But this topic is comparing ONLY the Saturn and Playstation libraries. The Dreamcast version is completely irrelevant here. Please learn to read.

@Barone
I'd say keep the Sailor Moon game for both as it is an interesting oddity for Sailor Moon fans to say the least. Put it in the borderline list.
05-30-2013, 09:35 PM
Barone

DC version is also said to be inferior to the Saturn in terms of gameplay (something wrong with hit detection boxes AFAIK).

Thanks, Trekkies.

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