Phelios:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK3nhZvv_L4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdr9WGPvcog
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Barone - thanks for the kind words and the rep comment, man! I really appreciate it! :)
As far as this X-Men track, would you believe that I almost picked this one instead of Inside Avalon? Why? You guessed it...because this one also makes use of that same PSG mode. If you listen reeeeeaaally close at the 0:05 mark, you'll hear this fuzzy thing going on...yep...PSG. The little soloey thing at 0:09, you're right, it is PSG, and is really neat from a musical perspective. But from a technical perspective, it's just a pair of plain square waves, so it's actually pretty run of the mill that way.
For something that's a little bit more interesting a use of the hardware, may I suggest The Tundra Beast from Chakan the Forever Man. I had mentioned that the Periodic Noise mode could also be used for more in depth percussion than the plain white noise channel. Well, in this track, there's no DAC sampling at all, only FM and PSG. But what makes it interesting is that there is absolutely no FM percussion, and absolutely no PSG non-percussive instrumentation. 100% of the instruments are FM, and 100% of the percussion is PSG...in that enhanced periodic noise mode. It's the only Genesis track that I'm aware of to feature 100% PSG percussion...that, and it's just a really neat, eerie ambient piece:
If you like Genesis tracks with Genesis PSG square waves leads, then have I got a pair of real numbers for you: The first one is "Whirlwind" from Shinobi III. The entire solo is nothing but plain PSG square waves (the little tinkly sounds at the very beginning, which also reappear later are also PSG, but again, are just plain square).
The second one is "In the Bar" (Stage 1-2) from Streets of Rage 2. Same idea, PSG solo over FM (and DAC) everything else. Enjoy!
Actually, you'll probably like this one too. It features a call-and-respond between PSG and FM. There's a melody run on the PSG at 0:50 followed by more or less the same run by the FM at 1:13. They also trade off for the background arpeggio during those runs. When the PSG is soloing, the FM is doing the arpeggio, and when the FM takes over the lead, the PSG takes over the arpeggio. You do get to hear the PSG before 0:50, including on a short solo at 0:22, but it's at 0:50 that things get the most interesting.
Here's Stage 4 from Shadow Squadron. Yes, this is a 32X game, and yes, the 32X did add a few extra channels, but no, this game is not using them for musical purposes, so this is just straight Genesis sound hardware you're hearing:
p.s. The reason I chose the other X-Men track rather than this one is because you can hear the periodic PSG so much better in that other track. And honestly, I like how atmospheric it is. Different strokes for different folks, but I actually like the Inside Avalon track better than the Inside the Temple track, though they're both great! :)
I absolutely love PSG square leads over FM bass/instruments and sampled drums. It embodies the type of sound I like the most in Genesis music.
Whirlwind from shinobi III is simply epic and certainly amongst my favourite on the genesis.
This is also part of what makes Langrisser music so good to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2-PtDDS2Lw
Some other good examples of the Epic Sampled Drum + FM + PSG lead combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCOHyAvwJj8&index=9&list=PL8AE17278410D859 D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y68mENG2VlI&index=3&list=PLDEBCD64DC682825 1
But here, let me throw you a curve ball, Barone:
Not everything you hear on the Genesis that sounds like a square wave is actually a square wave.
What do I mean? Do I mean that the FM chip can use square waves for its FM operators? No. It can only use sine wave operators. However, what the FM chip CAN do with its sine wave operators is very convincingly "fake" a square wave with a 2-operator, 2:1 ratio FM operation.
Let me share a couple tracks that sound like they're employing a square wave (or multiple square waves) from the PSG, when in fact, the PSG doesn't even appear in them AT ALL, and all these "square waves" are actually the FM "fake."
Alien's Den from Contra Hard Corps. The "fake square" appears from 0:44-0:59, slowly rising pitch, then slowly falling pitch:
The Pit from Mortal Kombat - the lead sounds like PSG...but it's not!
and the most unbelievably PSG sounding track to have absolutely zero PSG - Continue from TMNT Tournament Fighters:
So, why would composers tie up a valuable FM channel to "fake" a square wave when they had the PSG that made real square waves "right down the hall"? Well, there are a couple of reasons. In some cases, it might've just been laziness, not wanting to have to mess with two chips. Or it could be that they were using a development kit which only supported the FM. I don't know. But there are much better reasons that these why one would want to use FM instead:
1) The PSG couldn't be pitched very deep - a real limitation of the SN76489 PSG chip in the Genesis and Mastersystem. So, if you wanted a really deep square tone like how low that square slide starts and ends in the Contra track, or the bass in the TMNT track, you had to go FM.
2) The PSG in the Mastersystem and Game Gear are identical in every way...but one...Game Gear was stereo, Mastersystem was mono. I -BELIEVE- that it was the Mastersystem's mono PSG, and not the Game Gear's stereo version that the Genesis inherited, so if you wanted stereo square....FM.
3) While a real square may be more sing-songy than the fake, the fake is slightly rounder sounding (makes sense since they're ultimately made from sine waves), and they're more expressive, and easily manipulated.
4) PSG is fainter in real hardware than it is in emulation, so it was real easy for the PSG voices to get drowned out in the mix. Heck, even those Streets of Rage and Shinobi III tracks in my last post where the PSG is the solo, it's not drowned out by any means, but it does come off a bit soft. Therefore, if you wanted a square tone that really sliced through the mix and hit you front and center (like the Mortal Kombat track)....FM.
So, those are the reasons you'd use FM to fake a square rather than just use the PSG. But much of the time that you hear square tones on the Genesis, it actually is PSG, like those three from my last post....and this one:
But wait, there's one more wrinkle for you: This following track has square tones....are they FM or PSG?
....the answer? .....both! Yes, both. There is the melody square, with a trio of soft harmony square drones, and a scintillating counter-beat harmony. The melody square is FM. The scintillating counter-beat harmony is FM (and is only sorta square-like, where the melody is a full-on [fake] square). The trio of soft harmony drones...those are the PSG.
Here, hear the same track again, only this time very obviously emulated. Hear how much louder the harmony drones are now? They almost drown out everything else and ruin the track (the first video, which I believe was recorded on real hardware sound sooooo much better).
By the way, if you're ever not sure whether you're hearing real or fake square, the best thing to do is listen in something like Audio Overload, where you can mute individual tracks. Mute the PSG and see if the square tone goes away or not. But probably the next best thing would be to listen to the track on real hardware AND in emulation. If the square tone gets a lot louder in emulation, that's a pretty tell tale sign it's PSG. Observe: Two videos of the same track, with a soft drone PSG. On the real hardware version, the PSG is barely perceptible. On the emulated version, it's suddenly much louder:
Real Hardware:
Emulation:
Why is PSG louder in emulation? Beats the heck out of me. I can only assume its because there's some filter in real hardware that's not emulated, but that's just conjecture on my part. If anyone knows the real answer, I'm all ears. Apparently saturation level problems with the dual chip setup in emulation were not on the radar of the hardware designers back in the mid-late 80's, and we can't really fault them for that. :)
But anyway, that Star Cruiser track is where FM is doing one voice, and the PSG is doing another. Makes perfect sense...But what about when FM and PSG are not only doing squares at the same time...but when they're even doing the same notes, double melody, at the same time? Why on earth would a composer do that? The only thing that makes sense is to get a little bit of a reverb effect with the louder FM dominating, and the softer PSG filling it in a bit. My final three tracks for you [for now] are all from Sonic 2, and are all this very thing:
Say what you will about the Master System soundchip, but at the very least it had this sing-songy feel to it no other chip had.
Lets go! raise your volume and enjoy some music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK23yAK3UII&channel=LeonLeMelancholic
Some one most underrated ost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTCWUJkbntg
OK GO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHly79RQU0&channel=ohmgururu
Galaxy Force 2 on genesis is bether than the arcade for me..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8X6gtAsoL8&channel=GiantPooka
Batman.. some one of the best music of the game whats nobody puts to play!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00laC3F56PY&channel=ClassicVgmSoundtrack
Another very cool and informative post from you, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay See Double You
Yeah, that PSG solo in Inside Temple is not technically impressive but it sound very good and fits the track perfectly. Some technically impressive stuff, like some Jesper Kyd tracks, are rather annoying IMO. So what actually sounds good has my vote.
In that specific case, I also mentioned that track 'cause the usual path for US composers would be to use that lame generic synth guitar from the default set of instruments provided by GEMS, and that would be a sad choice.
About Chakan, the game is a complete POS in my book so it's cool to see that some part of it actually worth something. That's a cool track indeed, thanks for sharing it.
That Shinobi III track is awesome and I already knew it. The same for the one from SOR2.
And I didn't know that Shadow Squadron also made good use of the PSG. That game really rocks!
Agreed on those tracks, they're pretty cool. However, like Jay See Double You said, some of those tracks seem to be using FM sine wave operators along with the PSG solo, so it sounds all the more awesome. The PSG line on that Gleylancer track is actually just OK IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWar
I usually like to check the songs using Gens/GS and having only the PSG or PSG + DAC enabled in order to differ what is PSG sound and what is FM using PSG-like sound.
By the way, thanks for this amazingly cool thread, MaxWar; I have enjoyed it since its very beginning.
Yet another very cool post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay See Double You
I already knew some of the stuff you mentioned but not everything and not with so many details. That's the kind of stuff I dig.
About the tracks, Sonic has always impressed me with some very neat PSG usage. Specially for the flute-like lines.
Technosoft stuff is cool and all but I don't dig the TF music all that much. People usually go crazy about the very fast paced stuff but that not always impresses me. However, I like their work on Devil Crash MD quite a lot and I actually prefer it to the PCE version - I usually dislike the PCE drums and its noise.
Well, here are some tracks which I appreciate:
1)This one has a major part of its melody done by the PSG and it's great IMO:
2)And this uses no PSG but I like how minimalist it is and how Bo managed to produce some very cool "acoustic bass" sound in full stereo (like around 0:53):
3)I also dig these cartoonish-sounding FM drums (all percussion by FM, quite the opposite of that example from you), they're so cool IMO:
4)This track does some very cool use of the PSG for an initial organ line, it's really cool (try to listen to it alone, without any FM sound) and it blends well with the FM instruments and the PCM drums:
5) I dig the YM2612 doing organs, like this one:
6) And this is one of the few very fast paced tracks which I really enjoy - probably due to the use of the more piano-ish guitars then the synth-ish ones from the TF series:
These last posts pretty much sum up something where IMO no other platform from the 4th gen could compete against the Mega Drive: sound variety.
There are so many completely different instruments used in those games and several different ways to use its sound system.
I'm not sure if I posted this before, either way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlv45rq8xPk
And a version of beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OOANrFEq4
(PS: I know covers aren't the point of the thread, but these deserve an exception)
Silver Surfer track is pretty cool!
anyway Barone that is i'm talking about yesterday, fucking cool!
https://soundcloud.com/romaudio/hot-...ickness-ym2612
Here's one for you:
This soundtrack video is actually for two soundtracks...sorta.
The JP version of this game features a famous anime character and the according story line. It has a certain soundtrack.
The US version was renamed, features a different (generic) main character, and a different story to go along with it. It has a different soundtrack (with the exception of one track which they both share.)
There is a very strong case that it was actually the US version that was "the original", though (the JP version being the one that featured a character, story, and soundtrack overhaul), as there was an earlier arcade game called Nichibutsu : Booby Kids which was basically the same game, but with the US characters, story, and soundtrack (FM, rather than wavetable, of course).
This shouldn't be too shocking, though, as we've seen the opposite with Puyo Puyo coming to the US on the SNES as Kirby's Avalanche, and on the Genesis as Dr. Robotnic's Mean Bean Machine. The only thing being unusual is that the US and not the JP version was the original.
Anyway, the Japanese version is called "Doraemon", and the US version is called "Cratermaze", and they are for the PC Engine and Turbografx16 respectively. Other than the above differences, they are the same game.
The one track both versions share is in the middle of the video starting at 11:28, and ending at 12:35. Everything before this is from Doraemon, and everything after this is from Cratermaze.
After you hear these, I want to know whether you like the Doraemon or Cratermaze soundtrack overall, and what your favorite individual track is (if your favorite track is from your not favorite version, point that out.)
Here's the video:
and just for kicks, here's the Arcade soundtrack that the US version is based off of. Let me know as well whether you prefer the Nichibutsu arcade rendition or the US TG16 Cratermaze one:
I won't say which version I prefer yet, though I have a strong preference. I will tell you though, that my favorite individual track (by far) is from the soundtrack that I do NOT prefer.
DISCUSS! :)
I know that this goes a little bit off-topic, but a friend of mine sent this to me and i felt the need to share it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaGImJx3ns
Posting covers is perfectly fine, especially when it is something as awesome as the TF remake just above.
I just did not want those to be the main focus.
Thanks everyone for keeping this thread alive I just listened to most of the tracks posted in the last page. Some really good stuff.
I am currently playing through Breath Of fire, Which I had never played before.
And I am 100% positive that I really like the Forest song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmBZ_Tl9Sb8
Master system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNyf5lLaBE
Final Fantasy VII ended up being my biggest let down of the decade, but this one song is awesome. Since this guy can only do the mainstreamiest of mainstream songs I'm not surprised he turned to it, but he does a great job, and it is a great song besides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s20588opz4