If they got the thing to work with PC FPS I'd probably actually start playing some. I like finding ways to exercise where I don't realize I'm exercising, and taking out these stupid Mouse/KB headshot queens with an actual gun and actual aiming would be sweet.
Games built for the rift already have independent tracking of your gun and your head. You can look one way, walk another, and fire in a third direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbigreddog
As for guns, this is the unofficial Rift controller at the moment:
http://assets.razerzone.com/eeimages...-gallery-3.png
And this is in kickstarter right now:
http://freshgamer.com/wp-content/upl...elta-six-4.jpg
This works with any program that uses a keyboard or gamepad. So... any program period.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHWJMytx5I
there are numerous early prototypes like this. physically moving walkways don't work because, in the end, you're using your feet to move a walkway, which feels different from using your feet to push yourself along the ground. The way Omni works is supposed to feel much closer to actually walking.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWar
Beyond what you've described, Omni does almost everything you asked for. The Omni isn't an actual treadmill, it's a piece of very slick plastic that your special shoes can glide along with no friction. On the omni is a set of grooves and your shoes have these special balls which slide to align with the grooves to give your foot ankle support. The harness isn't just for keeping you upright, the bottom of the harness actually has a series of IR cameras, like the Kinect, that watches your legs. That's how the Omni detects input - you're not pushing anything with your feet, but rather it's watching you run and translating that to the game. In games designed especially for the Omni, you can translate all sorts of movement. For example, you can accurately map steps - take a tiny step IRL, take a tiny step in-game. Take an enormous step IRL, and your character will step the equivalent amount in game. It can even replicate your actual head bob.
The IR cameras can be augmented with a retail version of the Kinect, which attaches to the stand. The kinect is fully supported by the Omni SDK, and with kinect support, the Omni can track additional information about your body. The example they gave is that you can shift body weight from one leg to the other and it'll translate that in-game, and into your rift too.
As for your full body suit for additional feedback:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....t-and-side.jpg
Currently in kickstarter. It's supposed to have such fidelity that you can feel individual drops of rain on your shoulders if you're standing in a virtual storm.
You are obviously much more up to date on the current state of those things than I am, I have just been idle thinking about it for a while without ever really checking what was being worked on.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard
Omni looks like it could be great and I am amazed at how simple it actually is, which is a great thing.
It does not look like it allows for things like crouching, jumping or fast running though. I does look like one might feel kind of restrained in this thing.
I know I may sound like demanding too much from it but really Im just trying to figure how far things can be pushed with such a budget technology. In truth I am really looking forward to this.
Also, there is an aspect to consider that might be hard to grasp for someone who never used VR ( like me ). It is how the brain will react to exposition to virtual reality.
I have no doubt that those who used VR machines already and Hi end simulators could tell about it. I expect the brain might make you feel things that are not really there. For instance things like the swaying of a ship. If your full vision show that the horizon sways around like it does on a ship, you may actually start to feel like you are swaying for real, even though you are not moving. And may even get seasick!
So my point is that the experience might actually be more lifelike than you would expect simply from the tricks that the brain can play on you.
It does, though. They show all that stuff in the kickstarter video. The harness is mobile, it moves with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWar
This is the neat part about what people are finding out. There are a ton of subconscious things the Rift picks up... and a bunch of stuff it doesn't simulate. For example, the rift is supposed to be excellent at translating scale. I don't have my rift yet, so this is all just other's impressions, but it's something that you can't appreciate when looking at footage. You have to see it within the rift. Things look scaled to their correct size. Someone who is 7' tall, looks 7' tall. You have to look up to them (unless you're a basketball player or something.) The VR Cinema display is supposed to be stunning because it creates a screen that looks as big as an imax screen. Scale translates very well.Quote:
Also, there is an aspect to consider that might be hard to grasp for someone who never used VR ( like me ). It is how the brain will react to exposition to virtual reality.
I have no doubt that those who used VR machines already and Hi end simulators could tell about it. I expect the brain might make you feel things that are not really there. For instance things like the swaying of a ship. If your full vision show that the horizon sways around like it does on a ship, you may actually start to feel like you are swaying for real, even though you are not moving. And may even get seasick!
So my point is that the experience might actually be more lifelike than you would expect simply from the tricks that the brain can play on you.
Which, of course, means that vertigo simulators are very en vogue right now. Mirror's edge, for example, has made many people sick from vertigo.
What the rift doesn't translate well is the sensation of movement. Any camera movement independent of player control usually makes people sick. Without inner ear stimulation, movement can be jarring. Most people get motion sickness the first time they try the rift, you have to sort of practice at it to be able to stay in for hours at a time. They say sea sickness pills actually helps early on. Further more, it supposedly takes time to readjust to the real world. You need about an hour before real-world perspectives return to normal. They recommend you don't drive for 2 hours after trying the rift.
Someone built a guillotine simulator with the rift. Kneel down, put your head on a block, and wait for the blade to come down. Even though it's all virtual, people report feeling *something* on their neck when the blade actually hits and their vision is detached from their body. It's all mental, but they say they can actually feel the blade to an extent.
I'd imagine that sort of stuff will vary from person to person. But, it seems, it can actually psych you out to a degree.
EDIT: Actually, valve posted a "virtual reality bible" full of all the psychological do's and don'ts of VR development that they've figured out over the last few years of playing with the rift and posted it on the dev boards. I'll try and dig it up, it's an interesting read. It goes into detail about how to handle camera positioning, what sort of HUD elements no longer work in VR, what kinds do, solutions they've found, and types of feelings they've found VR can evoke at will (like vertigo, as an example off the top of my head).
One thing they've found is that full screen menus are an enormous no-no right now. Menus need to be floating windows in VR. A full screen menu feels like slamming your face into a brick wall, according to valve. This is supposed to be especially apparent in Half Life 2 VR, which still features the full-screen loading menus that pop up randomly while you play. Everyone I've talked to who has played it agrees with valve. If you're running while one pops up, people have reported involuntarily flinging themselves backwards as though something has hit in the in the head and, in cases, even tumbling over backwards into walls and stuff..
Ok I just looked at the kickstarter video. They show more stuff than on the video in the OP. I see how you can Jump/crouch/run but it is not the full motion. They do seem to run faster than I expected would be possible though. Looks good, I am impressed.
I read a bit about the Rift, I cannot imagine wearing this over my glasses. I hope they include wide range optical focus adjustment on this because I am almost blind without glasses. Some binocular are not even strong enough to compensate. I am like +5.5 each eye. ( And I cannot comfortably wear contact lenses because i have dry eyes )
The rift works with glasses, the screen is adjustable with a knob on the side that lets you give yourself space for your glasses:Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWar
http://hw1.pa-cdn.com/par/img/editor...adjustment.jpg
Additionally, once the consumer model launches, they plan to have a program in place where you can send in your perscription to get custom lenses. The thing comes with 3 general purpose lenses already, "Nearsighted," "farsighted," and "normal."
To quote palmer luckey: "In virtual reality, everyone will have 20/20 vision."
That is very cool and very tempting. Hopefully they keep improving it and some day down the road I can pick one up used for less than a couple hundred. Maybe they'll even develop a version that will allow for a true first person fighting game to be made, though grappling would never be an option.
This controls your legs, if you want to control your hands, your best option at the moment is the Razer Hydra, which are two absolute positioning 3D mice you hold in each hand. Unlike Kinect or Wiimotes or Move or even gyroscopic mice, these things don't rely on relative positioning or reading skeletal data. Rather, you place a small glowing base somewhere near you that emits a special kind of magnetic field. The Hydras are specially designed to distort this field in a special way so that the base can figure out where in the field they are. This gives absolute positioning within a 4 cubic-foot area. Definitely the best motion-tracking technology at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
As for tactile feedback and the ability to grapple? That's coming:
http://www.telepresenceoptions.com/Novint%20Xio.jpg
The Novint Xio. This thing is a full arm brace that can provide resistance within a space. It's currently in prototype, but their goal is to get it to be resistant enough that you could actually rest things on it. If you ever want to be able to grapple, this is the thing that'll eventually allow you to do that. This is just step one in their tactile feedback roadmap, ultimately they want to design a full exoskeleton you can wear to provide resistance and support all over your body if necessary. I can't find the picture anymore, but there was a concept art of a guy wearing the full suit leaning up against an imaginary wall, with the Xio providing the support to keep him standing up.
Now the Rift just needs that wifi video transfer that the Wii U Gamepad uses so it can be wireless!! And wireless controls of course!
And some force feedback on the Omni would be pretty nice! Just some small vibrations when a car drives by, or earth quake..
Man does this feel like the mid 90's or what?? Are we really talking about real working VR helmets and movements?? I had just about given up on all this stuff 10 years ago.
I thought all this WAS the future growing up as a teenager in the 90's. I guess I was right! :)
My biggest concern is that the entertainment industry, outside of Virtua Fighter, has never given Martial Arts a decent study. They tend to rely on movie choreographers or self proclaimed "Grand Masters" rather than doing an objective study. So if Kinect ever does a decent Kempo game I know to expect Olympic Karate style point systems at best and not to expect any regard to pressure points or the physics of deflecting an attack rather than "blocking" one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard
With grappling this thing becomes even more complicated for the developer. At best I'd expect a UFC or Wrestling game style of grappling system, but that wouldn't be too bad. The nuances of what makes a particular hold or take down work or not work, based on range and leverage at least, will be lost on the developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard
The problem is latency - 20 ms is the threashhold for virtual reality, according to John Carmack. The Rift's renderer is actually down to 2 ms, which is phenomenal, but the response time of the screen brings it back up to just about 20 ms. That's with a wired connection. Adding wireless would bring that latency up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbigreddog
It's ok for stuff like the WiiU gamepad, because you can get away with about 60 ms of latency on a 2D screen (which is about the latency of the WiiU gamepad), because we don't expect instant response. When you're trying to trick people into believing the world they're in is real, 60 ms is just too slow.
The Hydra 2 will be wireless, btw.
Keep in mind that this is the first step. Some consider this the birth of a new medium. Nobody knows the extent of the limitations on this stuff or where it will go. I'm so excited to start developing for this thing, though. Lots of experimentation and work to be done to figure out what works, and what doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Heck yeah, being able to actually participate in the development of this kind of tech would be a dream come true. Congrats and please do keep posting on it.
I considered it a small investment. Including my PC, I've probably thrown about $2000-ish for this virtual reality machine. But, if this catches on like I'm hoping it will, this will become an incredible money source. Not to mention I'll be getting an early jumpstart on VR development. Once this stuff launches for public consumption in 2015-2016, it'll be awesome to be able to put "Virtual Reality development" on my CV.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
This stuff is always cool but at the end of the day, people have to buy it. That's where it always inevitably stalls.