NO justice NO peace.....What does this mean?....

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Originally Posted by Vector

Here let me save a lot of back and forth posting between us.

There is a high Hispanic and black population there with I guess what 40% white. So a white person seeing a dark Hispanic person most likely will call them black, even explaining that to cops which ends up in report. Just as Tray said with a racist word what he thought Zimmerman was. Are the people arrested actually black is my question. And the link you posted proves what I said, many races were involved in theft there.

Now there is the EVIDENCE of Zimmerman audio call, I can't see what Tray is actually doing though so I have to go with what Zimmerman SAID. Is he about to break into a house or see if a chick he is banging is there ? If a camera proves he was about to break in, okay. If it was showing him knocking on door, looking in window then going on his phone trying to call her because he thinks she isn't home, okay.

That's what I'm trying to say here, I'm really not on either side but I'm replying to posts.

I just don't find killing an appropriate result with everything heard.

Now, I'm sometimes wrong look at my avatar. I knew Zimmerman was mixed, but I went with another member who was saying he heard early reports was he was half Mexican so I went with that too, but another member corrected that.

Maybe Zimmerman should have shot his arms and knees, instead of lining up a body shot through the heart area. Maybe they were both fighting coming at each other at the same time and Zimmerman wanted just to end it. Maybe Tray started it, maybe Zimmerman did. IDK. He had a right to ask what he was up too, but he could have done it less creepy by driving on his phone in car watching him circling block, then getting out and following him for awhile with his apathy look the whole time. Agree ? I'm just saying result could have been better.

And I understand testimony is a claim by a witness, but it's not something I would call 100% fact and evidence. As people could be wrong. Like how Tray was calling Zimmerman that, and maybe the people calling burglars black when they COULD have been Hispanic. Like I said, I'm answering you.

At Mr Sega, he could still be charged Federally.

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Eyewitness testimony or "He said, She Said" is very unreliable. Convicting people based entirely on eyewitness testimony got alot of men FALSELY convicted of Rape during the 1970s. A circumstantial piece of evidence normally makes do. If it can lead to something significant if you have no physical or scientific evidence.

I'm dismayed at the Police for not fully investigating the case and the prosecution for not taking the easy way out and just going for a manslaughter conviction. If they did, the jury would have found that Martin was nothing more than a ignorant "thug poser" kid who was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. And Zimmerman a burly,self-rightoeus wannabee Security Guard who had no right fatally shooting an unarmed teen and did not felt threatened but like a vigilante.

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Originally Posted by Vector

I'm not attempting misdirection, I'm answering your question.



Agreed.

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Your coke and martians comedy skit attempts to get away from the discussion because it isn't even sensible.

I get it. You don't like the testimony presented before the jury. Couple the testimony with the link I provided and it should add up. The facts are there yet you seem hesitant to believe them for whatever reason. If I lived in that community and young black males were breaking into houses, you bet I'd look at them closely. HLN even had a black attorney on this morning who said the same thing. Zimmerman was smart because he said white or black it wouldn't have mattered because he'd look at them in the same way.

Zimmerman didn't kill Martin because he looked suspicious or was looking into windows. He killed him because Martin used his ghetto response of beating the tar out of someone who pissed you off. You can ask people what they are doing. You can even follow someone and it isn't illegal. The sympathizers seem to ignore this little caveat. Explain to me your take on that four (4) minute window that gave Martin enough time to run home or call the police yet he do any of that.

Do I think George Zimmerman is guilty? Probably.

But the evidence was really circumstantial and witnesses on both sides were pretty unreliable. I knew from the start that the jury was not going to convict him. The best justice you can hope for is the family suing his pants off in civil court.

The investigators are more at fault here than the justice system, ultimately.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

Do I think George Zimmerman is guilty? Probably.

But the evidence was really circumstantial and witnesses on both sides were pretty unreliable. I knew from the start that the jury was not going to convict him. The best justice you can hope for is the family suing his pants off in civil court.

The investigators are more at fault here than the justice system, ultimately.

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I'll refer you to my post.

Are you serious with the removal of double jeopardy? What a great way to give the state unparalleled power to harass and potentially lock up innocent citizens. If you're for the removal of double jeopardy you are just asking for trouble.

Does the legal system get it wrong on occasion? - sure they do but it's not such a horrible situation that you should give up the right (as a citizen) to hold the state at bay from PERPETUALLY prosecuting you. The prosecution has one chance to build their best case and if they fail to do so - then there likely wasn't enough evidence to do so and perhaps it should not have seen trial in the first place.

Even if you make it TRIPLE JEOPARDY (like a new round on the game show) it's not like the state couldn't take their sweet time and manufacture evidence against you. What are you going to do to defend yourself while awaiting ANOTHER trial (which is a waste of money anyway) while the state goes out and builds its case. That's a real fair system there.

No need to change it.

Zimmerman being hispanic is irrelevant since he already dissed mexicans.

The image being presented by the defense in George Zimmerman‘s trial for the killing of Trayvon Martin is a bizarro echo of the image Zimmerman presented of himself in comments on his now-defunct MySpace page. On Monday, for example, Zimmerman’s Mixed Martial Arts trainer described his former pupil as “soft,” while on that MySpace page, Zimmerman referenced “mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around,” and while Zimmerman’s allies evinced shock that Trayvon Martin would refer to him as a “creepy-ass cracker,” Zimmerman’s MySpace page derided Mexicans as a people prone to constant knife assaults.

Zimmerman’s 2005 MySpace account was first reported on over a year ago, but since then, some of those entries have gained additional resonance. Even when it was reported, Zimmerman’s MySpace page never garnered the attention that conservative attempts to demonize Trayvon Martin through social media did. Although MySpace has since revamped its service, rendering old accounts unreadable, we have captured some of the relevant portions below, including Zimmerman’s remarks about Mexicans, his “ex-hoe,” and the “boys” who kept him from “getting pinched.” Here are some key portions of George Zimmerman’s MySpace page:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/georg...nnabe-thugs/#0

At the end of the day Zimmerman couldn't fight and he bit off more than he could chew and got his ass kicked by a 17 year old. So he had to shoot his ass.

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Originally Posted by Raja

Are you serious with the removal of double jeopardy? What a great way to give the state unparalleled power to harass and potentially lock up innocent citizens. If you're for the removal of double jeopardy you are just asking for trouble.

Does the legal system get it wrong on occasion? - sure they do but it's not such a horrible situation that you should give up the right (as a citizen) to hold the state at bay from PERPETUALLY prosecuting you. The prosecution has one chance to build their best case and if they fail to do so - then there likely wasn't enough evidence to do so and perhaps it should not have seen trial in the first place.

Even if you make it TRIPLE JEOPARDY (like a new round on the game show) it's not like the state couldn't take their sweet time and manufacture evidence against you. What are you going to do to defend yourself while awaiting ANOTHER trial (which is a waste of money anyway) while the state goes out and builds its case. That's a real fair system there.

No need to change it.

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Tell that to the family of Sue Schaffer. They had to endure 20 years of hell and torture.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...-the-just.html

Double Jeopardy has RUINED countless lives. Those using the technicality have often been found to be guilty later. Innocence? First I've heard of it with Double Jeopardy. Name a case where it worked.

What about Emmitt Till's faily and descendants? What about their nightmare?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...58286606_n.jpg

Here's my opinion, and keep in mind all our arguments are merely opinion.

Zimmerman seemed (do any of us really know who weren't there the night Trayvon died?) to be a 'vigilante' or 'cop wannabe' to many. Trayvon Martin is dead and that is tragic, and certainly grievous to his immediate family and friends. That said, IF the jury had returned a guilty verdict on either the 2nd degree murder or manslaughter charges, does any of us realize the chilling effect that would have had on neighborhood crime efforts throughout the United States of America? Fact is that in many urban, and increasingly suburban settings, community crime fighting efforts are dependent on neighborhood-watch patrolmen, like it or not. Often, the understaffed police departments cannot arrive to calls and scenes until much too long of a time has elapsed. Neighborhood patrol members are the stop-gap to mob rule in many urban areas. Convict George Zimmerman, and many would be afraid to patrol their own neighborhoods any longer, fearing retribution and legal retribution. Also be aware that would-be criminals would be aware of this and full take advantage of situations in many instances. I do not know whether, or even if, the Sanford, Florida jury considered the overall message they were sending, but they sent it all the same. Was Trayvon Martin a criminal? I do not know. All I do know is that he is dead, George Zimmerman shot him, and neighborhood watches are free to make their neighborhoods supposedly safer areas throughout Florida and this country. For that last point, I am thankful.

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Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...58286606_n.jpg

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Florida is a state with a botched justice system and belligerent precinct cops and courts.

In Florida, you can get arrested for anything. Pee Wee Herman got arrested for masturbating in an Hardcore Triple XXX Adult Theater.(What, was he just supposed to just watch it?) A 5 year old black girl was arrested for having a temper tantrum. They arrest A GOTDAMN toddler instead of making her go sit in a corner.

They arrest a well mannered College student over being tasered just because he wanted to have a civil talk with Sen. John Kerry. Or arresting a 38 year old woman for making a pornographic webcam video and selling it. Or arresting a talentless hip hop singer for peforming his own shitty,un listenable shock value garbage just because a county judge demmed it obscene.

Yeah, that's no justice. Makes me glad at least in Texas they don't pull this shit.

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Originally Posted by JCU

Your coke and martians comedy skit attempts to get away from the discussion because it isn't even sensible.

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Maybe I was reacting to your "you must have been out drinking coffee" skit. I directly answered you though with rest of post.

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I get it.

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If you read me saying it sucks someone was killed, okay good.

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You don't like the testimony presented before the jury. Couple the testimony with the link I provided and it should add up. The facts are there yet you seem hesitant to believe them for whatever reason.

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You missed the point. Those aren't facts they are claims. A fact is there is a moon orbiting earth, testimony are claims by human beings who can be right or wrong, most likely who don't know the difference between dark Hispanics and blacks. The link you provided showed NO PROOF they were black, just that people claimed a person that looked black tried breaking into a house and 3 black guys and a white guy were spoken to by a cop. But who stole the bike ? Are they black. Got the reports ? I mean I explained this in my last post.

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If I lived in that community and young black males were breaking into houses, you bet I'd look at them closely. HLN even had a black attorney on this morning who said the same thing. Zimmerman was smart because he said white or black it wouldn't have mattered because he'd look at them in the same way.

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And he would have killed somebody, regardless of their race. My point was a human being died because of somebodies assumptions they took into action. Is he a fucking cop ? Sit in your truck and let the cops handle it. If Tray was trying to break in houses, then 60 seconds later the cops would have observed this. But they couldn't because Zimmerman killed him, now what lead to that FOR A FACT ?

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Zimmerman didn't kill Martin because he looked suspicious or was looking into windows. He killed him because Martin used his ghetto response of beating the tar out of someone who pissed you off.

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You were there right ?

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You can ask people what they are doing.

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Didn't I agree to that.

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You can even follow someone and it isn't illegal.

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Sure nothing wrong with stalking up to a point. Now what point is that.

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The sympathizers seem to ignore this little caveat. Explain to me your take on that four (4) minute window that gave Martin enough time to run home or call the police yet he do any of that.

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You mean when he was talking to girl and he said guy was stalking him ? Why should he run ? What he do ?
And Zimmerman was on phone with police, and how did that end up ?

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Originally Posted by MrSega

Tell that to the family of Sue Schaffer. They had to endure 20 years of hell and torture.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...-the-just.html

Double Jeopardy has RUINED countless lives. Those using the technicality have often been found to be guilty later. Innocence? First I've heard of it with Double Jeopardy. Name a case where it worked.

What about Emmitt Till's faily and descendants? What about their nightmare?

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Right so we should change the rules to negatively impact even more people because of a few mistakes in the system. Again, you can't be serious. You'd rather live in a country where you can be charged with the same crime multiple times until they find you guilty than live with a few mistakes?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Vector

Maybe I was reacting to your "you must have been out drinking coffee" skit. I directly answered you though with rest of post.



If you read me saying it sucks someone was killed, okay good.

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For someone who says they saw the evidence/testimony, you were caught with your pants down.

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Originally Posted by Vector

You missed the point. Those aren't facts they are claims. A fact is there is a moon orbiting earth, testimony are claims by human beings who can be right or wrong, most likely who don't know the difference between dark Hispanics and blacks. The link you provided showed NO PROOF they were black, just that people claimed a person that looked black tried breaking into a house and 3 black guys and a white guy were spoken to by a cop. But who stole the bike ? Are they black. Got the reports ? I mean I explained this in my last post.

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Since you doubt the actual facts, look them up. Look up the facts about who was arrested, when they were arrested and why they were arrested.

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Originally Posted by Vector

And he would have killed somebody, regardless of their race. My point was a human being died because of somebodies assumptions they took into action. Is he a fucking cop ? Sit in your truck and let the cops handle it. If Tray was trying to break in houses, then 60 seconds later the cops would have observed this. But they couldn't because Zimmerman killed him, now what lead to that FOR A FACT ?



You were there right ?

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You don't have to be there to know Zimmerman was within his rights. The eyewitnesses and more importantly, science, put Martin (Tray, as you put him) on top striking Zimmerman. What caused the situation to change was when Martin (again, Tray) went hands on. Asking someone what they are doing is deserving of fists? Quite a few things don't add up in this case. Namely why would someone call the police before they intend on killing someone or assaulting someone? My suggestion is to listen to the actual 9-1-1 call as well as watching the video where he describes what happened and how. Even more importantly, review the testimony from the detective who believed Zimmerman.

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Originally Posted by Vector

Didn't I agree to that.



Sure nothing wrong with stalking up to a point. Now what point is that.



You mean when he was talking to girl and he said guy was stalking him ? Why should he run ? What he do ?
And Zimmerman was on phone with police, and how did that end up ?

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What he do? What he do? If the boy was in fear for his life and not looking for a fight, he could have run to his home or called the police but he didn't now did he? He had ample time based on actual evidence. If he didn't take kindly to being asked questions by Zimmerman, 9-1-1 was a few seconds away.

Martin was not stalked. Stalking is a form of harassment when one person follows another without a legitimate reason while trying to scare or harm or cause grief to another individual.

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Originally Posted by Raja

Right so we should change the rules to negatively impact even more people because of a few mistakes in the system. Again, you can't be serious. You'd rather live in a country where you can be charged with the same crime multiple times until they find you guilty than live with a few mistakes?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

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Ever heard of the old saying "3rd Times a charm?". That would work better. Because if the person acquitted is later proven to be guilty, than he doesn't walk free and can be brought to justice.

The Eastburn family is thanking the Heavens Sgt. Hennis was in active duty when the triple homicide occurred. Had he not, a young,smooth talking, good looking Army Lt. would have gotten away with raping and murdering a beautiful,vivacious young military wife and mother and stabbing to death her two toddler daughters.

That's justice. Hennis was finally nailed by DNA.

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Originally Posted by JCU

For someone who says they saw the evidence/testimony, you were caught with your pants down.

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Why is that, I said everything you said and more about what the woman SAID in court because we both saw it right. I have HLN too, big deal.

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Since you doubt the actual facts, look them up. Look up the facts about who was arrested, when they were arrested and why they were arrested.

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I'm trying but I don't have access to arrest documents showing their actual race, but didn't I ask you ? I mean your sitting there so positive they were black because of say so.

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You don't have to be there to know Zimmerman was within his rights. The eyewitnesses and more importantly, science, put Martin (Tray, as you put him) on top striking Zimmerman. What caused the situation to change was when Martin (again, Tray) went hands on.

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Why do you keep saying Tray was the one who went hands on ? Is there camera proof of this ? You were there right, and you saw that Tray initiated it yes ? You do know if you start a fight with somebody, you could also end up on your back ?

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Asking someone what they are doing is deserving of fists?

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When did I say that ?

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Quite a few things don't add up in this case. Namely why would someone call the police before they intend on killing someone or assaulting someone?

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Why would he keep following him when he was told not to ?

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My suggestion is to listen to the actual 9-1-1 call as well as watching the video where he describes what happened and how.

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Didn't I tell you in a previous post I heard Zimmerman and woman talking and shot heard tapes ? Okay he is saying and showing a recreation video about what happens in court, well only 1 of 2 can tell the story there.

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Even more importantly, review the testimony from the detective who believed Zimmerman.

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Okay.

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What he do? What he do? If the boy was in fear for his life and not looking for a fight, he could have run to his home or called the police but he didn't now did he?

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Again, why should he have run, maybe he didn't run BECAUSE HE WASN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG and he was on a phone with a girl at the time he saw Zimmerman.

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He had ample time based on actual evidence.

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The evidence Zimmerman provided ?

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If he didn't take kindly to being asked questions by Zimmerman, 9-1-1 was a few seconds away.

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Will you call 9 1 1 if I asked what you are doing ? Who said anybody life was in danger during that question ? I never said Tray was claiming he was in so much fear during the question or Zimmerman was. But at some point a fight occurred. Idk what happened there for a fact (I wasn't there) but do you know for a fact ?

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Martin was not stalked. Stalking is a form of harassment when one person follows another without a legitimate reason while trying to scare or harm or cause grief to another individual.

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Isn't that what ultimately happened ? Again, there is proof I can watch of him looking in windows being "suspicious" ?

Let me ask you something, this is a yes or no answer. If drunk drivers can get manslaughter for "accidentally" killing somebody in a car crash (no intent to kill them), shouldn't somebody get manslaughter for admitting he killed (intent, aim at heart, shoot) and slaughtered a life/man in your opinion ?