Nice work! Streets of Rage sounds a bit rough, but Toe JaM and Earl sounds funky fresh- I can hear what you mean I think. Now to compareQuote:
Originally Posted by CrossBow
Nice work! Streets of Rage sounds a bit rough, but Toe JaM and Earl sounds funky fresh- I can hear what you mean I think. Now to compareQuote:
Originally Posted by CrossBow
See to me...SOR sounds like it was designed with the 3438 in mind. The enhanced bass and cleaned up percussion really makes it worth it to me.
Just one problem with that the first Streets of Rage came out in 1991 when the YM2612 was only the choice. The model 2 didn't come out until 1993. The VA7 would of been the only model 1 in 1992 with an ASIC YM3438.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossBow
I realize that. I just meant that SOR really seems to take advantage of the 3438's improved stereo separation and the PCM rhythms are much cleaner. I also have a VA6 that I added RCA's to the back in the same manner but still using the 2612 attached. And aside from the few other games mentioned like AFII, and the first EWJ the bass and overall depth is lacking with the 2612 now that I have them both for comparison. To me the difference is very similar to when I first heard songs that I was very familiar with over my lifetime and then hearing them for the first time in master recordings or redone in high resolution audio. It sounded different, but at the same time I could hear things I simply hadn't heard before and it was like rediscovering your favorite music all over again.
Hey, I know this isn't that popular a mod to perform and I get that. Audio is a very subjective thing. I admit that I am over 40 years old and after my time in the army in my late teens etc. my ears are NOT what they used to be. Having said that, I was also in concert band as a brass player for nearly 10 years so I do notice quite a bit still within music. To me the 3438 enhances and sounds better on the majority of the games I play on the Genesis. I'm anxious to get my copy of Water Margin, Star Cruiser, and Super Fantasy Zone in soon to hear how those sound as well.
In any event, I've purchased extra 24pin IC sockets, caps, resistors, and have a small batch of 3438s on the way to me as I've had several requests to perform this mod for other collectors. So I'm not the only one who hears this and prefers it it would seem.
Here is a quick comparison video I did using some tracks from three different games. Again to me the 3438 wins out in the overall richness and added depth of most of the music. I also purposely chose games that do not sound vastly different between the two chips, other than what the 3438 can correct with the improved 8-bit DAC and much better stereo effects and instrument separation.
http://youtu.be/m2trB1nsdmg
To my ears, the 3438 sounds snappier, a bit sharper. There seems to be this resonance almost like an echo on the 2612 that IMO provides a more atmospheric sound. Pardon me if I missed this being discussed, but I am assuming you have the chips connected to a switch to change between both. What would the music sound like if it were pushed through both chips at the same time? (Is that possible?)
I grew up playing on a VA7 model 1, but now I play on a VA3, and when I hook it up through my vintage receiver Streets of Rage 2 turns my living room into a West Coast Techno Club.
On a side note, when playing certain games and repeating pressing pause at the end of a level (ie Sonic 2) messes with the music, and only certain tones will play or linger. I wonder if this happens on the 3438. Also when playing SoR2, certain sound effects replace certain sounds from the musical score. Does this also happen on the 3438? These two minor things would make the 3438 personally more appealing.
I do not have them on a switch no. The comparison video was done by using a va6.5 I think it was with a 2612 and the ONLY modification being that I added separate L/R RCA directly from the 1034 amp instead of through the headphone jack. Recorded what I wanted to record. I then installed the 3438 into the same genesis with again no other mods and recorded the same tracks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnick23
What is different between the two chips and I noted this on the comments, is that I have to normalize the audio recordings. This is because the music I chose in the comparison video are pretty low volume in reality and it is more difficult to hear the differences. Most of my 3438 recordings are straight from the system with no other editing done other than removing silence at the beginning of the audio track and ending them with a 2 - 5 second fade out.
Some games like AB2 for example used the 2612 defects to actually make it sound a certain way. When playing the same game with the 3438 installed, much of the initial melody is much harder to hear because the improved DAC in the 3438 cleans up the percussion too much and it can overpower, or in some cases, the DAC was used to play samples as melody and when cleaned up it is lower in volume than before. So there are pros and cons to both. In any event, if I want to play After Burner, I just pop in the 32x version and that sounds pretty fantastic with the 3438 onboard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qmpgopbse...urner.wav?dl=0
Most people that listen to music through expensive headphones and higher end audio equipment like myself, seem to prefer the expanded stereo soundscape and not as blended sound that the 3438 produces. Again, it is similar to the difference in hearing something Live vs recorded. In many instances instrumentation is individually brought out more and you hear parts of the songs you didn't before because the 2612 mixed everything a bit too much or because the defects in it seem to cancel some sounds. Those Tom drum hits for example in TF IV show what I mean. In other cases like with AB2 some sounds or melodies become harder to hear and might get lost. But..AB2 is really the only game I've played and tried that seems to not benefit from the 3438 in some way. EWJ has some oddness as well, but it doesn't bother me much at all and when I started to listen to it again on a 2612 stock genesis, the same issues where there but much more masked with the noisiness of the 2612. So if anything the 3438 seemed to make flaws in the original music just stand out more.
The instrumentation I don't believe is really changed much, but I do know that some sound a bit different. In many cases the 3438 seems to add additional expression in the tones I never noticed before. It is hard to explain and admittedly I don't have the best of hearing at my 40's age. It is and will always be subjective. To me I just prefer the 3438's sound. I've now modded all my HDG units that I own with one and have now done two 3438 mods for others in the community. One of which, I just completed was for John "The Immortal" Hancock up in Washington.
I not sure I answered your question and I apologize for that. I've not noticed anything odd with Sonic2 or SOR2 in regards to pausing and stuff getting messed up. But then I don't pause in a game much when I'm playing except on modern games honestly. If you can site some examples of where you notice this most, I'd be happy to test it?
That's because the DAC is usually used for drums in music and voices for sound effects, so you can't play both.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnick23
I believe some recent drivers can play more than one sound (by mixing before outputing to DAC ?).
EWJ2 Villi people uses 2612 noise a lot for subtle lingering notes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossBow
Definitely answers my questions, thank you!
Personally I would be most certainly interested in a way to modify the sound so that like in my example SoR2 plays the music and sound effects together. Aside from that, I would be very interested to hear what both chips sound like in unison, just curious really how that would sound. Not sure this is possible and Im just speculating, but it would be cool to hear the music through the original with the sound effects through the 3438. What do you mean Ryoandr by recent drivers? Emulation?
As for Sonic 2, if you complete a level, when the victory music starts playing, if you repeatedly press the pause button a few times and then let the game run, certain sounds will just stop playing, and what is left has a bit of an echo or odd twang. There was no real logical reason for me doing this, maybe just boredom, but when I noticed the sound gets messed up I thought it was interesting. And based on your observations of the two sound chips, I would assume that this pause effect would not happen. Its not a pressing matter but next time you are running some tests let me know if this is something you encounter.