Ask general Genesis/MD/Sega CD/32X questions here (for new members)

Jebus freakin craps! Don't snap like you never had a bad disc before. I'm tired of people whining all the freakin time about "i hate this it don't read my damaged stuff!". Seriously, any thing with a pinhole on a CD device will have problems, because the data is at the top, NOT the bottom, and the label is the reflective surface..

Sorry if I snapped, but I'm snapping today after a hard days of work of people bitching and moaning about how their computers can't be fixed because it's infested with freakin roaches.. ARGH!!!

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Jebus freakin craps! Don't snap like you never had a bad disc before. I'm tired of people whining all the freakin time about "i hate this it don't read my damaged stuff!". Seriously, any thing with a pinhole on a CD device will have problems, because the data is at the top, NOT the bottom, and the label is the reflective surface..

Sorry if I snapped, but I'm snapping today after a hard days of work of people bitching and moaning about how their computers can't be fixed because it's infested with freakin roaches.. ARGH!!!

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Hey man, cold chill. No one's snapping (well, no one was snapping...). I am, I think, justifiably concerned here; if these discs ARE the issue, and I don't return them to eBay in time, I'm stuck with two shiny, expensive-ass coasters. I'm just trying to figure shit out before I lose my window-of-return time and end up $70+ dollars poorer. Maybe I came off as an ass, but that wasn't my intention. I'm just a little exasperated at this point.

And I have had bad discs before, but never in such seemingly good condition. I had to hold the discs under a light to see the one or two pinholes, and both of these games were listed as "great/good condition" and "tested, working great." Like I said, I wanted to make absolutely certain it was the discs before I had to go through a big huge hassle of returning them.


Thanks to whoever recommended backing-up the games, I'll try that later and see if they don't work then.

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Seriously, any thing with a pinhole on a CD device will have problems, because the data is at the top, NOT the bottom, and the label is the reflective surface..

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Incorrect. The bottom of the CD is the reflective surface, even when the disc doesn't have a sputter deposited metallic bottom (like PSX discs). Every SEGA CD I own has the standard sputtered aluminum bottom layer for the reflective surface, just like virtually all audio CDs.

Also, as far as I know, the ISO portion of SEGA CDs is written in mode 0, meaning it has full error correction data like all decent data CDs. Reading the disc on a PC should be able to correct even flaws larger than pinholes.

No, it's nearer to the top.

http://www.fresh-spin.com/images/cdLayersAnnotated.jpg

Look at the thickness of the layers for the clues as to it's position when sandwiched together.

EDIT: Hmm, now lets compare it to DVD and BD. Yea, that reflectolayer is at the top for CD's.

http://www.optical-jukebox.com/asset...aser-12755.gif

Well I made a backup for Dark Wizard, and I'm still having the same problem. Guess I'll have to return it after all. :\

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Originally Posted by evildragon

No, it's nearer to the top.

http://www.fresh-spin.com/images/cdLayersAnnotated.jpg

Look at the thickness of the layers for the clues as to it's position when sandwiched together.

EDIT: Hmm, now lets compare it to DVD and BD. Yea, that reflectolayer is at the top for CD's.

http://www.optical-jukebox.com/asset...aser-12755.gif

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That graphic is deceptive. Just because it has a thick slab on plastic on the bottom doesn't mean the reflective layer is on the top. It's not. Notice how the beam is UNDER the CD. The reflective layer is on the BOTTOM with a layer of plain clear plastic between it and the beam to protect it from harm.

They also show the reflective layer as if it were one single thing - it's not. It's a layer of plastic pressed with the data, then with a thin layer of metal (usually aluminum, but often other metals like gold) deposited on the BOTTOM to form the real reflective layer. The pressed plastic layer is usually called the substrate, with the lacquer layer on top of it.

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Sorry if I snapped, but I'm snapping today after a hard days of work of people bitching and moaning about how their computers can't be fixed because it's infested with freakin roaches.. ARGH!!!

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Goodness alive, that's a disturbing image.

Well sorry Chilly, but you'll need to back up your statement. God knows I've learned here that whatever I say must be backed up, and I did with two different sources.

Why do people let roachers into their computers?

roaches go into them, because its nice and warm... in case of modern PCs which like to get hot ;)

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Well sorry Chilly, but you'll need to back up your statement. God knows I've learned here that whatever I say must be backed up, and I did with two different sources.

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Start with the replication section on wikipedia. It's rather good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_manu...ng#Replication

Also, the source you quote (especially the picture) didn't say what you said. You misinterpreted the picture. Look at this quote:

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This metal layer is the reflective surface which can be seen on the reverse (non label side) of a CD.

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The reflective layer is what you read the data from, and it's the REVERSE of the label side, i.e., the BOTTOM of the CD.

Here's some more pictures:

http://www.softpack.com/CDROMmanufac.htm

I hope I don't have to explain why a laser won't read through the label. Have you ever made your own labels for CDRs? Which side did they go on? The TOP!

Hey i can be proven wrong, dont need to get rude.

Heh.

I interpreted it as the bottom of the top of the cd/dvd. the amount of physical material below the reflective layer is the majority of the disc. as well, with early writeable cd's, if you scratched the label, you would render the disc useless. I'm not sure if this is still the case as I've not had any issues in quite a few years with writeables.

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Originally Posted by snume

I interpreted it as the bottom of the top of the cd/dvd. the amount of physical material below the reflective layer is the majority of the disc. as well, with early writeable cd's, if you scratched the label, you would render the disc useless. I'm not sure if this is still the case as I've not had any issues in quite a few years with writeables.

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That's exactly as how I see it, but who am I to argue? ;) I'm not going to waste my breath.

Because if you think about it, bluray required a hard coating because it's so close to the bottom of the disc, and CD's it wasn't, and besides, data can't be BEHIND the reflective portion, otherwise it can't see the data because it was reflected.