wolfenstein 3d demo for sega genesis

gasega68k,

I tested it using my JP mouse (two buttons only - no middle button).
The buttons worked like you described, no problem.
However, there's a bug with the mouse when you move it forward (to move the pointer UP). It doesn't recognize the forward movement unless you move it very fast to the forward direction, than the mouse pointer goes up really fast (like it should) but if you move it slowly it doesn't make the pointer go up at all.

Down, left and right directions seem to be working fine with the mouse.

I've also tested it with the mouse unplugged and then the regular controller works fine, just like you described.

And, no, the problem is not with my mouse. I tested it with "Fun N' Games" and it is working flawlessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottino

Guys, i think you don't understand completely the milestone that's been accomplished here.

Let's please keep this topic nice and clean for the appropriate discussion regarding this specific project, otherwise this thread will likely become a mess.

I do, it's awesome. Point taken though. I have a question about the mouse: When it's used to pan left and right is there a smooth movement or does it move in increments like how the controller does?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

gasega68k,

I tested it using my JP mouse (two buttons only - no middle button).
The buttons worked like you described, no problem.
However, there's a bug with the mouse when you move it forward (to move the pointer UP). It doesn't recognize the forward movement unless you move it very fast to the forward direction, than the mouse pointer goes up really fast (like it should) but if you move it slowly it doesn't make the pointer go up at all.

Down, left and right directions seem to be working fine with the mouse.

I've also tested it with the mouse unplugged and then the regular controller works fine, just like you described.

And, no, the problem is not with my mouse. I tested it with "Fun N' Games" and it is working flawlessly.

Ok, there must be a problem with the code. I just made two modified versions.
Barone, please can you tell me if any of them work properly? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleeg

I do, it's awesome. Point taken though. I have a question about the mouse: When it's used to pan left and right is there a smooth movement or does it move in increments like how the controller does?

The movement is smoother, you can try the 32x version with mouse to see the difference.

Download Link for "mouse_test_2_3" (there are two versions in the same RAR):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cz...e_test_2_3.rar

Hi!

mouse_test2.bin works flawlessly with both the mouse and the regular controller! Thanks a lot!!!

mouse_test3.bin breaks the mouse compatibility completely, it doesn't move the pointer at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

Hi!

mouse_test2.bin works flawlessly with both the mouse and the regular controller! Thanks a lot!!!

mouse_test3.bin breaks the mouse compatibility completely, it doesn't move the pointer at all.

Great, thank you very much. :D
Now in a few days I'll be posting the version with mouse support.:)

I tried it with my CDX and MegaMouse and it works perfect (the first test). The Japanese mouse is known to be incompatible with the MegaMouse, but it's a much smaller number on the market, so no one cares about it. In fact, I have no idea how the Japanese model differs (in the protocol) from the MegaMouse. Basically, everything that says "supports mouse" implicitly implies the MegaMouse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I tried it with my CDX and MegaMouse and it works perfect (the first test). The Japanese mouse is known to be incompatible with the MegaMouse, but it's a much smaller number on the market, so no one cares about it. In fact, I have no idea how the Japanese model differs (in the protocol) from the MegaMouse. Basically, everything that says "supports mouse" implicitly implies the MegaMouse.

This is not true.

The Mega Mouse (US version) is quite expensive nowadays and it's not easy to find it complete. The Japanese version is now the cheapest one and the easiest one to find complete/great condition AFAIK.

What you say about the mouse support implying the Mega Mouse is just plain wrong.
To begin with, which commercial release supported the middle (third) button of the US version?

Furthermore, let's have a look at the compatibility list:
Genesis/Mega Drive
•Body Count
•Cannon Fodder
•Dominus (Prototype)
•Fun 'N' Games
•Janou Touryumon
•Jimmy White's Whirlwind Snooker
•Lemmings 2
•Lord Monarch
•Marble Madness (The Japanese version supports the EU/JP mouse to be used as a trackball)
•Nobunaga's Ambition/Nobunaga no Yabou Zenkokuban
•Nobunaga no Yabou Haouden
•Populous 2 (Buggy)
•Richard Scarry's Busytown
•Shanghai II - Dragon's Eye (only the Activision's version supports it. The Japanese version doesn't)
•Wacky Worlds

Sega/Mega CD
•Crime Patrol
•Dungeon Master II - Skullkeep
•Eye of the Beholder
•Mad Dog McCree
•Mad Dog II: The Lost Gold
•Mansion of the Hidden Souls
•Might & Magic III
•My Paint
•Nobunaga no Yabou Haouden
•Panic
•Rise Of The Dragon
•Shin Megami Tensei
•StarBlade
•The Secret of Monkey Island
•Urusei Yatsura: My Dear Friends
•Warau Salesman
•Who Shot Johnny Rock?

Sega/Mega/Super 32X
•Wolf32X

I colored with red the Japanese games, green the European games and blue the United States games.
I really can't see how "everything that says "supports mouse" implicitly implies the MegaMouse" by looking at that list.

And I also don't know about any commercial games in that list which only support the US version of the mouse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasega68k

Ok, there must be a problem with the code. I just made two modified versions.
Barone, please can you tell me if any of them work properly? Thanks.

The movement is smoother, you can try the 32x version with mouse to see the difference.

Download Link for "mouse_test_2_3" (there are two versions in the same RAR):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cz...e_test_2_3.rar

Ta!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I tried it with my CDX and MegaMouse and it works perfect (the first test). The Japanese mouse is known to be incompatible with the MegaMouse, but it's a much smaller number on the market, so no one cares about it. In fact, I have no idea how the Japanese model differs (in the protocol) from the MegaMouse. Basically, everything that says "supports mouse" implicitly implies the MegaMouse.

What about mouse_test2, it worked?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasega68k

What about mouse_test2, it worked?

No. Neither 2 nor 3 work at all. Only the very first test works.

@Barone - The Japanese mouse was only released in Japan and Europe in limited quantities. It was never released in the US, and the US mouse had a much larger market penetration. Looking on ebay, I could find both mice, but the MegaMouse was cheaper. I've never seen a mention of the Japanese mouse in any Sega docs. However, the US MegaMouse went on to become the Saturn mouse (they merely gave it a Saturn plug and a slight update on the shape) and is well documented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

No. Neither 2 nor 3 work at all. Only the very first test works.

Ok, well, I've done other 4 tests,
test4: I added some "nop" before the last "next phase".
test5: I added back that last "wait on handshake".
test6: the previous two combined.
test7: with the original code of Wolf32x unchanged.

Sorry to ask you (Chilly Willy and Barone) to do the tests because I do not have chance to do it, since I have no mouse.:(

http://www.mediafire.com/download/63...est4_5_6_7.rar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

@Barone - The Japanese mouse was only released in Japan and Europe in limited quantities.

I've been buying MD stuff on ebay, often, for 4 years and in this period I've seen A LOT more JP mouses being listed than US ones.
You usually don't find BIN lists for JP mouses (except for NCSX which has doubled their price lately) but stores like yamotoku-classic lists like 6-12 of them from time to time, starting at $0.01 and ending at around $10. hit-japan used to list 1 or 2 of them for time to time at around $20.
I've never found a deal like yamotoku's for the US mouse, the same for the number of mouses listed.

Also, several members here are not in US and I think you'd be surprised if you place a poll to know which mouse model is more common among the Sega-16 members.

I agree about the EU mouse, though. That one seems to be really rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

It was never released in the US, and the US mouse had a much larger market penetration.

This is not what I've seen. The US mouse was less supported by the US developers than the JP mouse was supported by the JP developers.
And you still have SOJ making a consistent job in terms of indicating which games had Sega Mouse support while SOA had stuff like US Starblade not indicating it.

Out of the US-developed games, Secret of Monkey Island is probably the only one really worth playing and it was released prior to the Sega/Mega mouse even exist, so it's not a surprise to me to have seen so few US mouses listed on eBay. I really doubt it had the market penetration you think it had, despite how big was the Genesis install base.

On top of that, games like Cannon Fodder, Body Count and Jimmy White's Whirlwind Snooker were never released in US. Heck, Tec Toy published Body Count in Brazil while SOA just ignored it. And those are good games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Looking on ebay, I could find both mice, but the MegaMouse was cheaper.

Even considering that you live in US, this is not the case most of the time according to my experience.
You could buy a JP mouse for around $10-15 + shipment CIB in great condition.
CIB US mice usually go for $40-50+ for the item only.

If you have a source for the US mouse around $20-25 CIB, please, let me know, 'cause I've been looking for a deal like that for years and I'd love to play StarBlade using it since it's more comfortable than the EU/JP model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I've never seen a mention of the Japanese mouse in any Sega docs. However, the US MegaMouse went on to become the Saturn mouse (they merely gave it a Saturn plug and a slight update on the shape) and is well documented.

This part hasn't much to do with my reply to you nor the point which I questioned.

People say the XE-1AP was used as base to the Saturn 3D Pad protocol, however, it doesn't change the fact that the XE-1AP was manufactured in very small quantity, is rare and expensive these days and received little support from the MD developers. Its driver is also available on the Internet.

gasega68k was asking people to suggest features for his game and I suggested the mouse support 'cause I thought it would be a cool feature.
I'm sorry if it bothered you that some people don't have the US mouse and want to play the game with the mouse they actually have. Finally, like I said, for people living outside US, the US mouse is the most expensive option and it's nowhere near as common as you suggest in your posts and it also wasn't the default mouse for most of the developers like you said nor was the JP/EU one ignored as you mentioned.

I hope gasega68k can find a way to support both protocols, 'cause it will be better for everyone interested in that feature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasega68k

Ok, well, I've done other 4 tests,
test4: I added some "nop" before the last "next phase".
test5: I added back that last "wait on handshake".
test6: the previous two combined.
test7: with the original code of Wolf32x unchanged.

Sorry to ask you (Chilly Willy and Barone) to do the tests because I do not have chance to do it, since I have no mouse.:(

All of them have the same/similar bug of your first version when used with the JP mouse. :(

EDIT: Wouldn't be easier for you to just put some sort of manual selector inside the controls menu and so you could have separate drivers for both mouse protocols? I think this way you could also avoid a longer/more expensive mouse routine.

Test 4 = fail
Test 5 = fail
Test 6 = works fine
Test 7 = works fine

I've only ever seen a few JP mice on ebay and nowhere else, and never seen a doc that mentions it beyond only having two buttons on top and a third under the ball for use in "trackball" mode. Nothing saying how it works, and certainly never a driver. I used the Saturn docs and a disassembly of a game to figure out how to use the US mouse. I suppose I can check one of the games with Japanese mouse support to figure out how it works, I just never saw the need as it seemed from where I am like it wasn't that big a thing to support. It would be best to support both, so I suppose I'll go disassemble some stuff today. :?

Yeah, it really sucks that Sega didn't have at least a unified protocol for both models, to not say that having two models is a stupid idea IMO.
To be very honest, Chilly Willy, I had always supposed that both protocols were equal and the US version just implemented the third/middle button. Something like that.
It never crossed my mind, until a few posts ago, that they could be THAT different.

Also, IDK what the fuck SOJ was thinking when they designed the Sega Mouse. One day you'll understand what I'm saying, but the mouse seems to work better as a trackball (and just ONE game supports it) than as a mouse itself. I mean, it isn't a defective design or something, but the ball is too lightweight IMO (probably due to the trackball "feature") and it forces you to put some extra amount of power over the mouse when you need to move it quickly AND still want/need very good precision (StarBlade is tough to play on it IMO).
It's not a problem for some other games - and I'm pretty sure it will work great for Wolfenstein 3D or FPS games in general - but for rail shooters it's not very good IMO.
I've always thought that the Genesis mouse was better just for looking like a regular PC mouse and the third/middle button might be awesome for homebrew or even hacking purposes.

I have the Saturn mouse and I do find it better than the JP MD mouse. Though, I might say, I still find its case too lightweight for some games. Both 3DO's and PS1's are better IMO, since I feel more comfortable with them (especially the 3DO's).

Well, I'll try even harder to buy a Mega Mouse now that I know that it actually uses a very different protocol compared to the one that I have. I think it will be interesting to compare how both mice work with the supported games and improve that compatibility list.

Okay, I think the difference is in how the negative works... it looks like you can have negative zero on the Japanese mouse. Here's the mouse code in the Japanese version of Marble Madness:

Code:

lbC005A8A LEA ($A10003),A0 LEA (-$2FE2).W,A1 LEA (-$2FE6).W,A2 CMPI.B #3,(-$117C).W BNE.B lbC005AAA MOVEQ #0,D0 JSR (lbC005AC2,PC) JSR (lbC005BF0,PC) lbC005AAA ADDQ.L #4,A1 ADDQ.L #2,A2 CMPI.B #3,(-$117B).W BNE.B lbC005AC0 MOVEQ #2,D0 JSR (lbC005AC2,PC) BRA.W lbC005BF0 lbC005AC0 RTS ; get mouse packet lbC005AC2 MOVEQ #0,D1 MOVEQ #0,D2 MOVEQ #0,D3 MOVEQ #0,D4 ; start packet - get header MOVE.B #$60,(A0,D0.W) NOP NOP BTST #4,(A0,D0.W) BEQ.W lbC005B84 MOVE.B #$20,(A0,D0.W) MOVE.W #$FF,D4 NOP lbC005AEA BTST #4,(A0,D0.W) BNE.B lbC005AF8 DBRA D4,lbC005AEA BRA.B lbC005B6A lbC005AF8 MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D1 MOVE.B D1,D6 LSL.W #8,D1 MOVE.B #0,(A0,D0.W) NOP NOP lbC005B0A BTST #4,(A0,D0.W) BEQ.B lbC005B18 DBRA D4,lbC005B0A BRA.B lbC005B6A lbC005B18 MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D1 LSL.B #4,D1 LSL.W #4,D1 MOVE.B #$20,(A0,D0.W) NOP NOP lbC005B2A BTST #4,(A0,D0.W) BNE.B lbC005B38 DBRA D4,lbC005B2A BRA.B lbC005B6A lbC005B38 MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D1 LSL.B #4,D1 LSR.W #4,D1 MOVE.B D6,D3 ANDI.B #15,D3 CMPI.B #11,D3 BNE.B lbC005B6A ; not a mouse JSR (lbC005B9E,PC) ; get packet TST.L D3 BMI.B lbC005B6A MOVE.L D3,D2 ; return packet in d2 MOVE.B #$60,(A0,D0.W) lbC005B5C MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D7 BTST #4,D7 BEQ.B lbC005B5C MOVEQ #0,D0 RTS lbC005B6A MOVE.B #$60,(A0,D0.W) lbC005B70 MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D7 BTST #4,D7 BEQ.B lbC005B70 MOVEQ #2,D0 MOVEQ #-1,D1 MOVEQ #0,D2 MOVEQ #0,D3 RTS lbC005B84 MOVE.B #$60,(A0,D0.W) lbC005B8A MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D7 BTST #4,D7 BEQ.B lbC005B8A MOVEQ #1,D0 MOVEQ #0,D1 MOVEQ #0,D2 MOVEQ #0,D3 RTS ; get packet lbC005B9E MOVEQ #2,D5 ; get three bytes lbC005BA0 MOVE.B #0,(A0,D0.W) NOP NOP lbC005BAA MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D7 BTST #4,D7 BEQ.B lbC005BBA DBRA D4,lbC005BAA BRA.B lbC005BEC lbC005BBA MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D3 ; msn LSL.B #4,D3 LSL.L #4,D3 ; save nibble MOVE.B #$20,(A0,D0.W) NOP NOP lbC005BCC MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D7 BTST #4,D7 BNE.B lbC005BDC DBRA D4,lbC005BCC BRA.B lbC005BEC lbC005BDC MOVE.B (A0,D0.W),D3 ; lsn LSL.B #4,D3 LSL.L #4,D3 ; save nibble DBRA D5,lbC005BA0 LSR.L #8,D3 ; done, shift back to right RTS lbC005BEC MOVEQ #-1,D3 RTS ; process packet in d2 lbC005BF0 MOVE.W #$FF,D3 MOVEQ #0,D0 MOVE.W D2,D0 MOVE.W D2,D1 AND.W D3,D1 ; Y MOVE.W D1,(2,A1) SWAP D2 LSR.W #8,D0 ; X MOVE.W D0,(A1) BTST #6,D2 ; XO BEQ.B lbC005C0E MOVE.W D3,D0 ; X = 255 lbC005C0E BTST #4,D2 ; XS BEQ.B lbC005C22 TST.W D0 BNE.B lbC005C1A MOVE.W D3,D0 ; negative zero => -1 lbC005C1A ORI.W #$FF00,D0 MOVE.W D0,(A1) NEG.W D0 ; abs lbC005C22 MOVE.W D0,D4 BTST #7,D2 ; YO BEQ.B lbC005C2C MOVE.W D3,D1 ; Y = 255 lbC005C2C BTST #5,D2 ; YS BEQ.B lbC005C42 TST.W D1 BNE.B lbC005C38 MOVE.W D3,D1 ; negative zero => -1 lbC005C38 ORI.W #$FF00,D1 MOVE.W D1,(2,A1) NEG.W D1 ; abs lbC005C42 MOVE.W D1,D5 NEG.W (2,A1) MOVEQ #0,D0 BTST #1,D2 ; RMB BEQ.B lbC005C54 BSET #5,D0 lbC005C54 BTST #0,D2 ; LMB BEQ.B lbC005C5E BSET #7,D0 ; mouse moves => directions lbC005C5E CMPI.W #$32,D4 ; threshold for moving BCS.B lbC005C74 BTST #4,D2 BEQ.B lbC005C70 BSET #2,D0 BRA.B lbC005C74 lbC005C70 BSET #3,D0 lbC005C74 CMPI.W #$32,D5 ; threshold for moving BCS.B lbC005C8A BTST #5,D2 BEQ.B lbC005C86 BSET #1,D0 BRA.B lbC005C8A lbC005C86 BSET #0,D0 lbC005C8A MOVE.B (A2),D1 MOVE.B D0,(A2) EOR.B D0,D1 AND.B D0,D1 MOVE.B D1,(1,A2) RTS

This seems to be the ONLY code, so I'd guess it handles both mice. As far as I can tell, the main differences are that it only checks for two mouse buttons, and does an additional check for -0 for X and Y. So minimal alterations to the code should make it work with both.