Nintendo: We have failed to establish Wii U as a "worthy" Wii successor

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Really the only one in that list that I'm somewhat inclined to get a PS4 to play is Destiny, and that's only because right now there doesn't seem to be a PC release coming. The 2 exclusives don't really jump out as anything amazing for me, and the others I'd rather get for PC or get a 360 or Wii U version than buy a whole new console for.

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That list is what a PS4 owner has to look forward to - I already knew you were not interested in any of it. If you already own a PS4, why would you bother with a last gen copy of a cross gen game?

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

And there's enough there on that list to justify not getting a PS4 as a lot of those games can be played on plenty of other platforms. Those games are more of a reason to either upgrade my Graphics card or keep my 360 hooked up instead of getting a PS4.

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I'm not trying to sell you on a PS4. You're a grown man, and certainly know what is worth your money. The decision to not jump into the next gen too soon is a popular one, but a whole lot of people DID buy a PS4 and/or an XB1, and a cross gen game like COD:Ghosts sold a ton on them. Gamers that bought into next gen on launch are playing something, and there is more to look forward to for them right around the corner.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Game Interest for titles like Bayonetta 2 and Watch Dogs have nothing to do with Nintendo fanboys, it has to do with the games merits themselves. But if you need more 2014 Wii U titles you can throw in these as well:

Project Cars
Yarn Yoshi
Child of Light
Pier Solar (Nintendo is actually the only one actively advertising this.)
The Lego Movie
Sacreligium
2 Oddworld Games
Fast Racing Neo
Dragon Quest X (Rumored US Release)

True, it doesn't have all the big multiplatform releases, but it does have more than those 4 Nintendo titles. There's also a bit more that I haven't listed. combine that with it's current library and it's really not a bad system to have. Yes the system needs more third party support, but as I've been saying that's a problem of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The only way that will change is if you can somehow get every Wii U owner to run out and buy Madden 13 and Call of Duty Ghosts for the system to get EA and Activision to take notice or something else equally ridiculous.

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Yes, and those are the options for WiiU owners. PS4 owners are going to get those 3rd party multi-plats, which was my initial point. WiiU owners are obviously going to get games, I'm just saying that PS4 owners have more of them to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

On the Wii U (Or any Nintendo Platform) third parties are competing directly with Nintendo's first party titles. If Wii U owners deem those third party titles to not be of good quality, they're not going to buy them. They're going to spend their money on Nintendo games instead. Just look at the sales:install base ratio of your average Nintendo game on a Nintendo platform. It's typically double or more than that of the best selling 360 and PS3 games.

On other platforms you're not competing with the same level of first party output that you are on Nintendo platforms. If third party developers want their titles to sell well on Nintendo's platforms, then they need to put out titles that can stand a good chance compete with Nintendo's titles. This doesn't mean it has to be a cutesy kids game or a Mario clone, but the amount of effort Nintendo puts in to make their games look and play good needs to be put in to those third party titles as well. If you throw Nintendo Owners leftover scraps, they're going to sell like leftover scraps.

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Nintendo home consoles getting gimped versions of 3rd party games isn't something that happened just for the hell of it. It's about 20 years of generally poor 3rd party sales that has developers wondering if it's even worth the effort.

The Gamecube was getting nicer versions of 3rd party multi-plats than the PS2, and comparable versions to the Xbox versions. The PS2 versions obviously sold better, but you'd be shocked on how much better the Xbox versions sold too - The original Xbox only selling a couple of million units more worldwide than the GC. For instance, a great game like Prince of Persia: SoT sold approx. 250,000 copies on the GC while selling more than twice that on the Xbox, and most comparisons between the two similarly selling platforms look very similar to the example I just presented. These weren't gimped versions of games either. GC owners simply didn't care as much for 3rd party games, no matter how good they were. Even solid 3rd party exclusives felt borderline wasted on the GC, and it's no wonder that Capcom made a few of those exclusive games multi-plat.

Now, before you say "GC owners had stronger 1st party games to turn to", I will agree with that. Third parties are certainly competing with Nintendo 1st party games, but my gripe with it is that Nintendo doesn't pump out those games (well, the high quality games) fast enough to really suggest that there's no room for solid 3rd party support. Was Mario, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Metroid, Zelda, Animal Crossing, and Star Fox really enough for the average GC owner to almost completely ignore the PoP Trilogy, 4 Splinter Cell games (only the 1st game topped 100,000 in sales), 2 Viewtiful Joe games, 2 X-Men Legends games, 3 SSX games, just about ANY sports game, 2 Mortal Kombat games, 2 True Crime games (the closest thing to GTA on the system, but solid in their own right), and a handful of Resident Evil exclusives? Red Faction 2 and Timesplitters: Future Perfect are fantastic multi-player FPS options on the GC (IMO, the best options) that failed to reach 100,000 in sales COMBINED.

Even Resident Evil 4, which can arguably be considered a top 5 game on the platform, failed to hit a million in sales. What's even stranger is that high quality 1st and 2nd party games like Waverace, Star Fox, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, and Metroid Prime 2 sold very underwhelmingly. It's no wonder that Nintendo isn't in a rush to get these series on the WiiU, even in the face of diminishing 3rd party support.

With 600-800 players online (on average) for COD:BO2 on the WiiU, can you blame Warner Bros. for electing to jettisson the online portion of Batman:Arkham Origins? What's the incentive to apply resources towards DLC for games no one is buying on the platform? I will completely agree that EA set their WiiU games up for failure (Mass Effect 3, in particular), but it's not as if EA games were selling particularly well in the past on Nintendo platforms, although Need for Speed might be an exception.

When even well-reviewed games like The Wonderful 101 and Rayman Legends are selling terribly (both hovering around 100,000 in sales worldwide) on a system in dire need of more options (moreso when they were actually released), it really begs the question: What the hell do Nintendo console owners REALLY want? I know what I'd want, but what I'd want sells like crap. I'm willing to wager that most 3rd party developers have been asking themselves that question for years, and I'm also willing to bet that most of them have simply grown tired of trying to appease that fanbase. They're certainly trying to find nice ways of saying that our games, no matter how good or exclusive, are just wasted on the platform.

If Watch Dogs sells like shit on the WiiU, even UbiSoft (one of Nintendo's biggest 3rd party supporters) will likely jump ship, only to appear when they've got another "Just Dance" game to sell.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Here's my current 360 collection:
Phantasy Star Universe
Sonic the Hedgehog 2006
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Generations
Star Trek Legacy
Halo 3 ODST
Final Fantasy XIII
Star Ocean 4
Street Fighter 4
Super Street Fighter 4
Street Fighter X Tekken
Marvel vs Capcom 3
Resident Evil 5
Dodonpachi Resurrection
Otomedius Excellent
Bayonetta
Forza Motorsport 3

XBLA:
Radiant Silvergun
Outrun Online
Daytona USA
Super Street Fighter II HD Remix
Rez HD

And before I'm done with it I intend to at least get the following:
Tales of Vesperia
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Lighting Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
Blue Dragon
Virtual On Force



My Wii Collection is actually rather similar in taste:
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
Metroid Other M
Mariokart Wii
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Sonic Colors
Sonic and the Secret Rings
NiGHTS Journey of Dreams
House of the Dead Overkill
Ghost Squad
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Conduit
MadWorld
Batallion Wars 2
Sin and Punishment Star Successor
The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess
The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword
Mario Party 8
Mario Party 9
Wii Sports



Nintendo Land
Wind Waker HD
Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed
Sonic Lost World
Mass Effect 3
Tekken Tag Tournament Wii U Edition
Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper
Need for Speed Most Wanted U
The Wonderful 101

And I intend to at least get the following:
Lego City Undercover
Super Mario 3D World
Super Smash Bros Wii U
MarioKart 8
X
Bayonetta 2

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I was about to write "OMG, if you own a 360, and judging by your tastes, you've gotta play Mass Effect" before I noticed that you bought the 3rd game for the WiiU. It's a fantastic series, but it is odd that you decided to get the 3rd game for the WiiU rather than get the 3 games on the 360, which would have been collectively cheaper on the 2nd hand market.

Seeing that you enjoy the Metroid Prime and Zelda series, I would strongly suggest the Batman Arkham and Darksiders series. They're very good games that obviously used Metroid and Zelda respectively as inspirations, and are relatively cheap nowadays.

I also noticed that you bought "the Conduit" for the Wii, although I'm willing to bet that you weren't particularly crazy about it. The Orange Box is a must if you did like it - Portal, on it's own is worth the price of admission.

If you're into Japanese-centric RPGs on the 360, look into Lost Odyssey and Catherine. Catherine is particularly unique.

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Originally Posted by Semmie

i think this discussion should be continued after a year. basically what we are doing is judging to early. plus the fact that wii u is doing good but just not asgood as the 2 others atm.

in my opinion the wii u is doing very good. wii u gets sold out more then before.
went to buy some pluche for my new born and i see wii us getting sold in loads. so either only that store is lucky or nintendo is ruling this holiday allready

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lol. nintendo fanboys said the same last summer, we should see after christmas season, now that that is an epic failure we have to wait another year

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I didn't say you were a dudebro gamer. The point I was making was that if those games don't appeal to you (you know, a core gamer who doesn't want to play the latest Madden or CoD), then there's not much to appeal to you on the PS4 or Xbox One right now. Why do you think Sony is delaying the PS4 launch in Japan until they get more Japanese titles finished?

The Wii U on the other hand has a more well rounded library right now. It has a few CoD ports to appeal to that demographic, while also having a lot of titles to appeal to other demographics who are not quite interested in those titles. The one genre it's really lacking in right now is sports titles.

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There are people that prefer Battelfield over COD and might actually like Need for Speed or FIFA.

The West got the PS4 first, because western software development is so much better than what has been coming out of Japan lately. Sony could have cheaped out and offered an HD remake of one of their older games, but why should they when their best studio is Naughty Dog. Seeing that Sony has limited hardware available, it made perfect sense to delay the Japan release.

If you like to play platformers, then yes, the Wii U library is more well rounded. Outside of Pikman 3, the Wii U has nothing to offer, that I couldn't get on the other platforms. And a game like Assasin's Creed IV will run better on the PS4 and XB1.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

That list is what a PS4 owner has to look forward to - I already knew you were not interested in any of it. If you already own a PS4, why would you bother with a last gen copy of a cross gen game?

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Yet this same argument get's thrown out when it's brought up about multiplatform titles on the Wii U. I'm not saying it's a bad argument on your end, just that if I bring up something like Assassin's Creed on the Wii U as a good game it doesn't count, though it's ok to use for the 360/PS3/PS4/XBO.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

Nintendo home consoles getting gimped versions of 3rd party games isn't something that happened just for the hell of it. It's about 20 years of generally poor 3rd party sales that has developers wondering if it's even worth the effort.

The Gamecube was getting nicer versions of 3rd party multi-plats than the PS2, and comparable versions to the Xbox versions. The PS2 versions obviously sold better, but you'd be shocked on how much better the Xbox versions sold too - The original Xbox only selling a couple of million units more worldwide than the GC. For instance, a great game like Prince of Persia: SoT sold approx. 250,000 copies on the GC while selling more than twice that on the Xbox, and most comparisons between the two similarly selling platforms look very similar to the example I just presented. These weren't gimped versions of games either. GC owners simply didn't care as much for 3rd party games, no matter how good they were. Even solid 3rd party exclusives felt borderline wasted on the GC, and it's no wonder that Capcom made a few of those exclusive games multi-plat.

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There's plenty of instances of the opposite happening. For example Phantasy Star Online Episode I&II on the Gamecube sold 3x the amount it sold on the Xbox. For a system that wasn't well known for it's online abilities that's quite some feat. Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog also sold significantly more on Gamecube than they did on Xbox. Soul Calibur 2 also sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. Capcom vs SNK 2 sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. According to vgChartz both Viewtiful Joe's sold more on Gamecube than they did on PS2. The first Burnout sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. There's plenty more examples of it happening. There's also examples of third party exclusives like the Resident Evil games and Tales of Symphonia selling respectively on the platform. If it was truly a case of third party games not selling on Nintendo platforms, those games wouldn't have performed well either.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

Now, before you say "GC owners had stronger 1st party games to turn to", I will agree with that. Third parties are certainly competing with Nintendo 1st party games, but my gripe with it is that Nintendo doesn't pump out those games (well, the high quality games) fast enough to really suggest that there's no room for solid 3rd party support. Was Mario, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Metroid, Zelda, Animal Crossing, and Star Fox really enough for the average GC owner to almost completely ignore the PoP Trilogy, 4 Splinter Cell games (only the 1st game topped 100,000 in sales), 2 Viewtiful Joe games, 2 X-Men Legends games, 3 SSX games, just about ANY sports game, 2 Mortal Kombat games, 2 True Crime games (the closest thing to GTA on the system, but solid in their own right), and a handful of Resident Evil exclusives? Red Faction 2 and Timesplitters: Future Perfect are fantastic multi-player FPS options on the GC (IMO, the best options) that failed to reach 100,000 in sales COMBINED.

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To a certain degree I would say yes. If you're a GC owner are you going to pick up Prince of Persia or The Legend of Zelda, Paper Mario, Super Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, or Metroid Prime? There's a lot of first party offerings that fill the same role as Prince of Persia. That takes a dent out of sales right there. Throw in the fact that most Gamecube owners also had a PS2 or an Xbox and you then have the issue of platform overlap.

However I would like to point out a few things with some of those games you listed:

Viewtiful Joe - According to vgChartz these still sold more on the Gamecube, it's just a niche title.
SSX games - These actually sold marginally better on Gamecube than they did on Xbox.
X-Men Games - Yes these were low, but the Xbox versions didn't sell that great either.
TimeSplitters + Red Faction - These didn't sell that great on the Xbox Either. In fact Timesplitters 2 sold more on the GC in the US than it did on the Xbox.

I'm not saying these sales weren't bad, but simply pointing out that they weren't great on the Xbox either.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

Even Resident Evil 4, which can arguably be considered a top 5 game on the platform, failed to hit a million in sales.

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It sold about 1.7 Million copies on Gamecube. RE Remake and RE Zero also sold about 1.3 Million copies each.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

What's even stranger is that high quality 1st and 2nd party games like Waverace, Star Fox, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, and Metroid Prime 2 sold very underwhelmingly. It's no wonder that Nintendo isn't in a rush to get these series on the WiiU, even in the face of diminishing 3rd party support.

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Starfox Adventures was a major departure from 64, which annoyed a lot of fans. Assault came towards the tail end of the generation. So no surprise that those didn't sell well. Wave Race if I remember correctly just wasn't that great on the Gamecube, and F-Zero was competing directly with Mariokart. So again no surprises there. Eternal Darkness was a niche title that a lot of people don't even know exists. Not to mention it was again competing directly with the Resident Evil Remake which got a lot more marketting. So again no surprise there.

The only really big surprise there is Metroid Prime 2, but again it was released at the tail end of the systems life.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

When even well-reviewed games like The Wonderful 101 and Rayman Legends are selling terribly (both hovering around 100,000 in sales worldwide) on a system in dire need of more options (moreso when they were actually released), it really begs the question: What the hell do Nintendo console owners REALLY want? I know what I'd want, but what I'd want sells like crap. I'm willing to wager that most 3rd party developers have been asking themselves that question for years, and I'm also willing to bet that most of them have simply grown tired of trying to appease that fanbase. They're certainly trying to find nice ways of saying that our games, no matter how good or exclusive, are just wasted on the platform.

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Wonderful 101 I blame on poor advertising. A lot of people don't know it exists and I've even encountered a lot of people being flat out stupid about it. For example the day I got my Wii U there was a person there looking at a trailer of Wonderful 101 that was rolling across the TVs at the time, and when they asked if it was available the Best Buy rep told the person it was a Japan only game and wasn't getting released here. While this idiot was saying this the game was sitting 5-10 feet away on the Wii U shelves.

Rayman Legends isn't selling great on any platform really, at least in physical form. The Wii U version is actually the best selling version right now.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

I was about to write "OMG, if you own a 360, and judging by your tastes, you've gotta play Mass Effect" before I noticed that you bought the 3rd game for the WiiU. It's a fantastic series, but it is odd that you decided to get the 3rd game for the WiiU rather than get the 3 games on the 360, which would have been collectively cheaper on the 2nd hand market.

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The main reason I got ME3 on the Wii U was because it was only $10 at Best Buy brand new. I figured if I didn't like it would be less money spent.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

Seeing that you enjoy the Metroid Prime and Zelda series, I would strongly suggest the Batman Arkham and Darksiders series. They're very good games that obviously used Metroid and Zelda respectively as inspirations, and are relatively cheap nowadays.

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I do intend to at least get the Batman games, I just can't decide if I want them on Wii U or PC.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

I also noticed that you bought "the Conduit" for the Wii, although I'm willing to bet that you weren't particularly crazy about it. The Orange Box is a must if you did like it - Portal, on it's own is worth the price of admission.

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I already have the Orange Box on PC. If you're interested here's what I have on Steam:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7.../games?tab=all

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Originally Posted by gamevet

There are people that prefer Battelfield over COD and might actually like Need for Speed or FIFA.

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That's not the point but ok. Battlefield and Fifa would still fall into that same category as CoD and Madden. If you don't like First Person shooters or Sports games your out of luck. Need for Speed is really the only game not in that category, but it's still an overdone annualized franchise. Need for Speed is a franchise that has hit sequel fatigue. There's so many at this point that I've lost track of them. I just got Most Wanted for my Wii U, simply because it looked unique and made a good use of the gamepad. I really have no desire to get Rivals. If Most Wanted didn't get a port to the Wii U with added features to make it stand out I probably would have ignored it as well.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

The West got the PS4 first, because western software development is so much better than what has been coming out of Japan lately. Sony could have cheaped out and offered an HD remake of one of their older games, but why should they when their best studio is Naughty Dog. Seeing that Sony has limited hardware available, it made perfect sense to delay the Japan release.

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It's being delayed soley due to the fact that there's not enough Japanese software on it yet. Sony has flat out said that. The point isn't about Western games vs Japanese games. The point was that if you like Japanese games and are more indifferent to Western games (or you play them more on your PC), there's not much reason to get a PS4 or Xbox One right now.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

If you like to play platformers, then yes, the Wii U library is more well rounded. Outside of Pikman 3, the Wii U has nothing to offer, that I couldn't get on the other platforms. And a game like Assasin's Creed IV will run better on the PS4 and XB1.

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A game like Assassin's Creed IV will run even better on a PC. So why even bother with any console versions? And as I have said numerous times there are plenty of Wii U exclusives out there other than Pikmin 3.

"UK Charts: Wii Fit U Misses Top 40, Super Mario 3D World Slips Again"

"This week’s UK charts are in courtesy of GFK Chart Track. Nintendo titles have suffered a beating this week due to the continuous dash for multi-platform games this Christmas. Sadly, Wii Fit U has failed to chart within the top 40, despite Nintendo pulling in tennis superstars Andre Agassi and Steffi Graff to promote the game."

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/12/16...d-slips-again/

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

There's plenty of instances of the opposite happening. For example Phantasy Star Online Episode I&II on the Gamecube sold 3x the amount it sold on the Xbox. For a system that wasn't well known for it's online abilities that's quite some feat. Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog also sold significantly more on Gamecube than they did on Xbox. Soul Calibur 2 also sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. Capcom vs SNK 2 sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. According to vgChartz both Viewtiful Joe's sold more on Gamecube than they did on PS2. The first Burnout sold more on Gamecube than it did on Xbox. There's plenty more examples of it happening. There's also examples of third party exclusives like the Resident Evil games and Tales of Symphonia selling respectively on the platform. If it was truly a case of third party games not selling on Nintendo platforms, those games wouldn't have performed well either.

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Hehe...I just knew that you were going to bring up Sonic and Soul Calibur 2. Sonic may as well be a Nintendo IP as it almost seems like the only fanbase that cares for it, which makes it odd that Sonic Generations didn't hit the Wii.

GC's version of SC2 had Link as it's bonus character. It certainly helps that it's a fantastic game without the bonus characters, but throwing Link in there is like throwing Mario in a Kart Racing game, or a wacky sports title - Reasonably fun games in their own right, but eliminate the iconic chracters and you're looking at the kind of sales that 3rd parties were usually dealing with on Nintendo platforms. You don't think that the Mario Party and Mario & Sonic at the Olympics series' sell well because they're good, do you?

You've got a few examples here and there, but the vast majority sold better on the xbox. There were 8 Tom Clancy titles released on the GC that all sold dramatically less than the Xbox versions. In fact, they sold so pathetically (5 of the 8 games couldn't crawl past 80,000 sales worldwide) that it's mystifying that Ubisoft continued to release them on the GC. You can't really say that Nintendo 1st party has a comparable alternative to Tom Clancy games (Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six).

All Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games (5 games in total) sold more than twice as well on the xbox. James Bond games seem to be the only gun games that GC owners seemed to like with any consistency, however, only 1 of 5 JB games (From Russia with Love) sold better on the GC.

Just to keep score. 17 of the last 18 3rd party multi-plats that I just rattled off sold better on the similarly selling Xbox, and most of it done in embarrasing fashion.

Wanna take a look at sales for EA sports titles between the two? I know you don't like sports titles, but it's pretty ugly. It's like 30-40 games worth of ugly. Just looking at those differences can start to paint a clearer picture of EA's slow burning frustration with Nintendo.

In fact, besides 1 Need for Speed game, 1 Burnout game, 1 Tony Hawk game, and 2 SSX games (keep in mind there's like 20 games between those series' alone), I don't think there's another 3rd party sports title on both consoles that sold better on the GC. This is A TON of games. Probably over 80 3rd party multi-plats, and I can only find 5 that sold marginally better on the GC. Even the 2 Simpsons driving games sold better on the xbox (oddly enough, the one published by EA sold dramatically worse on the GC).

Without even needing to go any further, it's really hard to argue that Xbox owners didn't support 3rd party games dramatically better than GC owners. I'm certainly not saying that nintendo console owners NEVER buy 3rd party games, but it's easy to see that they don't do it enough, and after 20 years of half-hearted and wildly unpredictable 3rd party sales, I'm certain that developers and publishers have taken notice.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

To a certain degree I would say yes. If you're a GC owner are you going to pick up Prince of Persia or The Legend of Zelda, Paper Mario, Super Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, or Metroid Prime? There's a lot of first party offerings that fill the same role as Prince of Persia. That takes a dent out of sales right there. Throw in the fact that most Gamecube owners also had a PS2 or an Xbox and you then have the issue of platform overlap.

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Over the course of 5 years those 1st party alternatives don't really amount to much. Five years is a long time. What happens when I'm finished with those 5 - 7 games? I've had those odd crazy months where I've finished that many games. Besides, I'm not really sure why Nintendo would assume that I would be interested in buying everything it develops.

Platorm overlap is probably the answer to why 3rd party sales tend to be poorer on Nintendo platforms, which of course, would include the WiiU. Personally, I haven't been a Nintendo-only kinda guy since the NES. It's funny that I care enough about Nintendo IP and exclusives to keep buying their systems, but I never rely on them as my primary source of video game entertainment.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Wonderful 101 I blame on poor advertising. A lot of people don't know it exists and I've even encountered a lot of people being flat out stupid about it. For example the day I got my Wii U there was a person there looking at a trailer of Wonderful 101 that was rolling across the TVs at the time, and when they asked if it was available the Best Buy rep told the person it was a Japan only game and wasn't getting released here. While this idiot was saying this the game was sitting 5-10 feet away on the Wii U shelves.

Rayman Legends isn't selling great on any platform really, at least in physical form. The Wii U version is actually the best selling version right now.

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It's a shame. I was expecting the WiiU version of Rayman Legends to sell best, but I thought it was going to do much better than it has. It was the lead platform, and it has been a pretty dry year up until the point of it's release.

The thing I notice in this thread the most is that there are 2 sides arguing different things.
Trekkies, it's obvious YOU enjoy the wii u, and love the games. But you are arguing from your standpoint and those who agree with you. For you the wii u can be a standalone system because it has everything you want/need for console gaming on it. But it's fairly obvious you are in the minority in that sentiment. And "can play it on PC" you might as well say you can play it on the 360/ps3/ps4/xbone because that means you would be looking elsewhere than the wii u.


For others, they are arguing from the market perspective. The system isn't selling. There may be a few small pockets where the system sells a bit better, but the undeniable overall trend is that it isn't selling well at all, and that doesn't seem to be reversing at this point.

Unfortunately for anyone that loves the system, the second argument is the one that matters more in the long run... because no matter how much someone that owns the system loves and appreciates it, if the market isn't kind to it, it's going to get abandoned (See the Dreamcast).

Me? I'd rather see Nintendo go down swinging for as long as possible with it, like Sega did. They have the money and resources to float the thing for quite some time, and if they make enough awesome games, and enough of the right moves, they CAN bring it back and make it sell. Sony made mistake after mistake with the PS3 for the better part of a year and they still managed to get back on course and kick some butt this last generation. It also allowed them to have a very good standing with the PS4. There's no reason whatsoever Nintendo can't do similar and at least have a respectable showing with the wii u.

Dreamcast was dropped weeks after the PS2 launch, and only because Peter Moore and Chris Belfield decided that it should be dropped. I doubt Nintendo is as stupid. And if they were I doubt they got someone willing to donate them a billion Dollars to save them from collapse like Okawa did for Sega.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Dreamcast was dropped weeks after the PS2 launch, and only because Peter Moore and Chris Belfield decided that it should be dropped. I doubt Nintendo is as stupid. And if they were I doubt they got someone willing to donate them a billion Dollars to save them from collapse like Okawa did for Sega.

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The situations are vastly different for the companies. Sega was just about tapped out.. coming out of several "failed" pieces of hardware (Sega CD, 32x, Saturn). The prospect of a long and expensive fight vs Sony, when the general market had already made their choice just was not realistic to them.

Nintendo has done respectable with the n64 and gc, and as a smash hit with the wii. They have tons of money to throw into the arena if they really care to. They also still have their portables raking in cash, even if it's not AS popular as the DS was, the 3DS is still a popular device that sells tons of games.

Nintendo can afford to fight with the wii u, or they can afford to just let it do whatever, or even ditch it. But the last two options impact the consumers negatively... so I know which one I'd personally rather see them do.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

Sony made mistake after mistake with the PS3 for the better part of a year and they still managed to get back on course and kick some butt this last generation. It also allowed them to have a very good standing with the PS4. There's no reason whatsoever Nintendo can't do similar and at least have a respectable showing with the wii u.

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PS3 hardware was up to its generation (the same for DC and GC), Wii U's isn't.
PS2 ended the previous gen very well, with strong third party support; Wii didn't.

The time for Nintendo to make the Wii U a platform with some lastability and third party support was prior to the release of the real next gen consoles. Now the Wii U is just a zombie waiting for a shot in the face.

The Famicom and Gamecube are the only Nintendo consoles which were appropriate for their time (either current or emerging gen).

They've almost always put out outdated hardware. At least the Wii U isn't making Nintendo customers buy the same console a second time with a new controller.

I'd like to see Nintendo put more effort into their console designs. They've tried selling consumers dated hardware with gimmicky controllers, got away with it for the Wii and not so much with the Wii U.

If the Wii U continues its current trend, maybe Nintendo could come out with a Wii U lite, that just comes with a pro controller and no gimmicky screen. They could sell it for $150 and the gamers that want to play Nintendo's games could buy the cheaper option. I honestly don't see the controller screen being used to its full potential anytime soon.

So the Nintendo Direct was pretty cool, and does make me feel that Nintendo is really trying to offer a lot of content. I give them a lot of credit, seeing that they're the only game maker tat cranks out so many games in one year.

Hyrule Warriors is an interesting concept. An online co-op feature would be great. DKC looks amazing! The graphical fidelity is next-gen. It definitely looks better than Knack.

Dr. Luigi was a nice surprise. It's not an entirely new concept, but it's nice to get a puzzle game. The "L" shaped pills add a nice variety, and changing your opponents pill colors will be fun. You also get a version of Dr. Mario and online modes.

NES Remix looks good, and the type of quick and fun game that people will be fighting for placing on the leaderboards (if they have any, which with this type of game should be a given).

Mario Kart and Smash Bros. I'm really not that excited for. Maybe future trailers will get me more excited, but I can't deny these are big games. Nintendo is certainly getting the content out and I hope that people respond.

oh god. again MORE OF THE SAME OLD SHIT from nintendo.