Nintendo: We have failed to establish Wii U as a "worthy" Wii successor

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Originally Posted by Barone

PS3 hardware was up to its generation (the same for DC and GC), Wii U's isn't.
PS2 ended the previous gen very well, with strong third party support; Wii didn't.

The time for Nintendo to make the Wii U a platform with some lastability and third party support was prior to the release of the real next gen consoles. Now the Wii U is just a zombie waiting for a shot in the face.

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I agree they should have been pushing harder their first year. But they can still push for a respectable generation for the wii u. That doesn't mean they will get it... but they can certainly give it their best shot. Right now I don't see them doing much more than talking to the people who already like them and own their system and basically giving them an "awe shucks guys, but we really wanted it to be like the wii!"

I want Nintendo to be out there, guns blazing, firing off a crapload of awesome and unique games, talking to indies, talking to 3rd parties, talking to EVERYONE to get awesome games on the wii u that you can't get anywhere else. And more than just that, I want them out there telling the general public about it. Not small blurbs here and there, not their own internal meetings, not small scale stuff attended almost exclusively by people who probably already bought the wii u.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

The Famicom and Gamecube are the only Nintendo consoles which were appropriate for their time (either current or emerging gen).

They've almost always put out outdated hardware. At least the Wii U isn't making Nintendo customers buy the same console a second time with a new controller.

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The SNES and N64 may have had a few things about their design that were not up to the competition (CPU and Cart format) but the overall system was every bit a match to their competition, and superior in other ways. The GC was no different, it's disc format held less than the competition, but it was generally just as good as the rest, if not superior.

The wii is the first system they have put out that is universally worse off than their competition in every way. The wii u followed that up by being marginally better than the wii's competition in general, but similarly underpowered as compared to it's upcoming competition. So I'd disagree with the assessment that they have "always" tried to sell underpowered hardware, that's really only been the case since the wii.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

I agree they should have been pushing harder their first year. But they can still push for a respectable generation for the wii u. That doesn't mean they will get it... but they can certainly give it their best shot. Right now I don't see them doing much more than talking to the people who already like them and own their system and basically giving them an "awe shucks guys, but we really wanted it to be like the wii!"

I want Nintendo to be out there, guns blazing, firing off a crapload of awesome and unique games, talking to indies, talking to 3rd parties, talking to EVERYONE to get awesome games on the wii u that you can't get anywhere else. And more than just that, I want them out there telling the general public about it. Not small blurbs here and there, not their own internal meetings, not small scale stuff attended almost exclusively by people who probably already bought the wii u.

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They could also bring some Nintendo-related IPs back.
Star Fox, Kirby (it's on the 3DS but not on the Wii U), Punch Out!, Stunt Race, Top Gear, Pocky & Rocky... There's also stuff like Bonk, Wonder Boy and even Streets of Rage which could get some special attention if they bring them back in great fashion.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

The SNES and N64 may have had a few things about their design that were not up to the competition (CPU and Cart format) but the overall system was every bit a match to their competition, and superior in other ways. The GC was no different, it's disc format held less than the competition, but it was generally just as good as the rest, if not superior.

The wii is the first system they have put out that is universally worse off than their competition in every way. The wii u followed that up by being marginally better than the wii's competition in general, but similarly underpowered as compared to it's upcoming competition. So I'd disagree with the assessment that they have "always" tried to sell underpowered hardware, that's really only been the case since the wii.

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I agree here.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

I agree they should have been pushing harder their first year. But they can still push for a respectable generation for the wii u. That doesn't mean they will get it... but they can certainly give it their best shot. Right now I don't see them doing much more than talking to the people who already like them and own their system and basically giving them an "awe shucks guys, but we really wanted it to be like the wii!"

I want Nintendo to be out there, guns blazing, firing off a crapload of awesome and unique games, talking to indies, talking to 3rd parties, talking to EVERYONE to get awesome games on the wii u that you can't get anywhere else. And more than just that, I want them out there telling the general public about it. Not small blurbs here and there, not their own internal meetings, not small scale stuff attended almost
exclusively by people who probably already bought the wii u.



The SNES and N64 may have had a few things about their design that were not up to the competition (CPU and Cart format) but the overall system was every bit a match to their competition, and superior in other ways. The GC was no different, it's disc format held less than the competition, but it was generally just as good as the rest, if not superior.

The wii is the first system they have put out that is universally worse off than their competition in every way. The wii u followed that up by being marginally better than the wii's competition in general, but similarly underpowered as compared to it's upcoming competition. So I'd disagree with the assessment that they have "always" tried to sell underpowered hardware, that's really only been the case since the wii.

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The SNES and N64 launched so late in relation to comparable hardware that they straddled generations. The SFC came out closer to the 3DO and Jaguar than the PCE and the N64 didn't hold up well compared to the DC and PS2.

The Wii stands up great compared to the Xbox and PS2, but like all Nintendo consoles (except Famicom and Gamecube) it was released way too late.

@ Bultje112,

It's Nintendo, what do you expect?
I'm surprised they announced anything new at all. I thought they'd go over Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, and Smash Bros. again. At this time, they haven't announced anything past the first half (or quarter) of next year. So I'd expect an interesting Direct sometime by March, once these games have released or are close to release.

To defend Nintendo a bit, the Zelda/Dynasty Warriors could be interesting. It's being developed by Tecmo/Koei, so on that alone it should be a fairly new experience, even though it's in a familiar universe. Donkey Kong looks really polished and will be a graphical showpiece for its "last gen" power.

Nintendo is also supporting the eshop nicely, which is another point of soreness. Sonic Lost Worlds is getting free DLC. Dr. Luigi seems to be digital only, and so is NES Remix.

These are actions that show me Nintendo is trying to support the Wii U and that they're embracing digital games as well DLC and online gaming. All they can do i s hope that it's enough for people to buy it, and then attract more 3rd party games.
Off the top of my head, there are at least 5 games being published by Nintendo in the next 3 or 4 months, not to mention all of their support on the 3DS. One company cannot do much more, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

I want Nintendo to be out there, guns blazing, firing off a crapload of awesome and unique games, talking to indies, talking to 3rd parties, talking to EVERYONE to get awesome games on the wii u that you can't get anywhere else. And more than just that, I want them out there telling the general public about it. Not small blurbs here and there, not their own internal meetings, not small scale stuff attended almost exclusively by people who probably already bought the wii u.

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I couldn't agree more. These Directs were a terrible idea. I have no idea why Nintendo feels that talking only to it's customers is the best course of action. Do they think they ave enough customers and don't need any more???
They need to bombard the media with the Wii U and how its a new console. And I don't mean those god-awful commercials with the kids. I don't think Nintendo has said the words "next generation" in any of their communications, which to me is the firs thing you want to tell the public, especially since its well known that the "new generation" of xbox and playstation are now available.

there's nothing to defend nintendo. they have tons of developpers and money yet they never do any new ip or any new genre. seriously that warrior game looks horrible and seems like another attempt to cash cow zelda even further. it doesn't even make any sense to have that game.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Dreamcast was dropped weeks after the PS2 launch, and only because Peter Moore and Chris Belfield decided that it should be dropped. I doubt Nintendo is as stupid. And if they were I doubt they got someone willing to donate them a billion Dollars to save them from collapse like Okawa did for Sega.

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Um it wasn't just Moore and Bellfield that were advocating pulling out of hardware, both Isao Okawa and David Rosen had been as well. According to Rosen both he and Okawa wanted Sega to drop hardware after the Genesis, Okawa apparently wanted Sega to focus on the arcades and internet based games, I've also read that it was Okawa who insisted that the Dreamcast have a modem as standard.
Oh btw, the money Okawa gave Sega wasn't a donation, it was him forgiving Sega's debts to him and returning his stockholding in Sega to the company, as he was losing his personal battle with cancer. It wasn't a billion dollars either, just under 700 million iirc.
Secondly, the gift was intended to allow Sega to survive the transition from hardware manufacturer/platform owner to 3rd party publisher, it wasn't going to be used to finance the Dreamcast.

The moment it became clear that Microsoft were developing the Xbox, Sega's management knew that they weren't going to be able to compete with 2 huge corporations and Nintendo and chose to save the company by pulling out of hardware, rather than run the company in to the ground.

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Originally Posted by Barone

"UK Charts: Wii Fit U Misses Top 40, Super Mario 3D World Slips Again"

"This week’s UK charts are in courtesy of GFK Chart Track. Nintendo titles have suffered a beating this week due to the continuous dash for multi-platform games this Christmas. Sadly, Wii Fit U has failed to chart within the top 40, despite Nintendo pulling in tennis superstars Andre Agassi and Steffi Graff to promote the game."

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/12/16...d-slips-again/

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Meanwhile in Japan the Wii U has been experiencing a nice holiday surge and has been the best selling console for the past 7 weeks:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736138

The only platform that has been consistently outselling it is the 3DS, and on a few occasions the Vita.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

Hehe...I just knew that you were going to bring up Sonic and Soul Calibur 2. Sonic may as well be a Nintendo IP as it almost seems like the only fanbase that cares for it, which makes it odd that Sonic Generations didn't hit the Wii.

GC's version of SC2 had Link as it's bonus character. It certainly helps that it's a fantastic game without the bonus characters, but throwing Link in there is like throwing Mario in a Kart Racing game, or a wacky sports title - Reasonably fun games in their own right, but eliminate the iconic chracters and you're looking at the kind of sales that 3rd parties were usually dealing with on Nintendo platforms. You don't think that the Mario Party and Mario & Sonic at the Olympics series' sell well because they're good, do you?

You've got a few examples here and there, but the vast majority sold better on the xbox. There were 8 Tom Clancy titles released on the GC that all sold dramatically less than the Xbox versions. In fact, they sold so pathetically (5 of the 8 games couldn't crawl past 80,000 sales worldwide) that it's mystifying that Ubisoft continued to release them on the GC. You can't really say that Nintendo 1st party has a comparable alternative to Tom Clancy games (Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six).

All Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games (5 games in total) sold more than twice as well on the xbox. James Bond games seem to be the only gun games that GC owners seemed to like with any consistency, however, only 1 of 5 JB games (From Russia with Love) sold better on the GC.

Just to keep score. 17 of the last 18 3rd party multi-plats that I just rattled off sold better on the similarly selling Xbox, and most of it done in embarrasing fashion.

Wanna take a look at sales for EA sports titles between the two? I know you don't like sports titles, but it's pretty ugly. It's like 30-40 games worth of ugly. Just looking at those differences can start to paint a clearer picture of EA's slow burning frustration with Nintendo.

In fact, besides 1 Need for Speed game, 1 Burnout game, 1 Tony Hawk game, and 2 SSX games (keep in mind there's like 20 games between those series' alone), I don't think there's another 3rd party sports title on both consoles that sold better on the GC. This is A TON of games. Probably over 80 3rd party multi-plats, and I can only find 5 that sold marginally better on the GC. Even the 2 Simpsons driving games sold better on the xbox (oddly enough, the one published by EA sold dramatically worse on the GC).

Without even needing to go any further, it's really hard to argue that Xbox owners didn't support 3rd party games dramatically better than GC owners. I'm certainly not saying that nintendo console owners NEVER buy 3rd party games, but it's easy to see that they don't do it enough, and after 20 years of half-hearted and wildly unpredictable 3rd party sales, I'm certain that developers and publishers have taken notice.

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I'm aware there's a lot of instances of Xbox multiplats selling more. However there are a lot of cases where even if the Xbox version sold more, it's sales were still abysmal. Selling 150k vs 80k may look good in direct comparison, it's still shit when compare to the PS2 sales. I'd say platform overlap is one of the big reasons a lot of those didn't sell as well. Just about everyone had a PS2 that generation, and then some had a an Xbox or a Gamecube, or both. I don't think I know anyone who owned just an Xbox or just a Gamecube. They all had at least one of those and a PS2.

And when you look at those EA Sports titles, the Gamecube sales are rather respectable for most of the generation. The big divide really doesn't happen until Madden 2003/2004 when Online modes got added into the PS2 and Xbox versions but were skipped for the Gamecube version. I'd say that probably has a lot to do with the lower sales. Now some may argue this is Nintendo's fault for not pushing online, I'd just like to point out that Nintendo's approach to online with the Gamecube was no different from Sony's with the PS2. There was no PSN on the PS2. Online was simply handled on a game to game basis. The same way the Gamecube and Dreamcast handled it. So there was nothing stopping developers from adding online capability to their Gamecube games the same way they did to their PS2 games. If Sega could do it with 3 PSO games, there's no reason all those other developers couldn't have done it with their games. Hell with how it worked with both systems connecting to third party servers they could have made it so Gamecube and PS2 players could play together. It's not like Nintendo told those developers they weren't allowed to use the Broadband adapter.

That issue could be a big reason why a lot of those shooters didn't sell as well on the Gamecube. The GC versions of Call of Duty were the only versions lacking online multiplayer. If Activision would have added that functionality in, and maybe taken it a step further by allowing PS2 and GC players to play together those sales may have been better. If fans can hack PSO to allow cross play between the Gamecube, Dreamcast, and PC I don't see why Activision couldn't have done something similar with their games.

So I wouldn't say it's entirely the fault of the audience in this case.

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Originally Posted by Splatterhouse5

It's a shame. I was expecting the WiiU version of Rayman Legends to sell best, but I thought it was going to do much better than it has. It was the lead platform, and it has been a pretty dry year up until the point of it's release.

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The Wii U version actually is the best selling version right now:

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Rayman+Legends

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

The thing I notice in this thread the most is that there are 2 sides arguing different things.
Trekkies, it's obvious YOU enjoy the wii u, and love the games. But you are arguing from your standpoint and those who agree with you. For you the wii u can be a standalone system because it has everything you want/need for console gaming on it. But it's fairly obvious you are in the minority in that sentiment. And "can play it on PC" you might as well say you can play it on the 360/ps3/ps4/xbone because that means you would be looking elsewhere than the wii u.

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I'm not saying the Wii U should be your only stand alone console. I'm simply saying it has good games and is worth owning. The "I can play it on PC" argument was an attempt to point out how silly the same argument is when you guys use it to discount the Wii U's multiplatform titles yet use those same multiplatform titles to build up the PS4. The point is their good titles to have if you have the system. If they count to boost up one system's library, they should count to boost up the other systems they're on.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I'd like to see Nintendo put more effort into their console designs. They've tried selling consumers dated hardware with gimmicky controllers, got away with it for the Wii and not so much with the Wii U.

If the Wii U continues its current trend, maybe Nintendo could come out with a Wii U lite, that just comes with a pro controller and no gimmicky screen. They could sell it for $150 and the gamers that want to play Nintendo's games could buy the cheaper option. I honestly don't see the controller screen being used to its full potential anytime soon.

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I'd say we're more likely to see a cost reduced gamepad (Smaller, not glossy, removed features like NFC, etc.) to lower the Wii U's price before we see a bundle without the gamepad.

wii-u sales are completely irrelevant in japan. the console business is so dead now that you are actually number 1 hardware seller with 50,000 systems a week. I remember even 3do sold more than 1 million in it's first year in japan, for a MUCH higher price at that

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Meanwhile in Japan the Wii U has been experiencing a nice holiday surge and has been the best selling console for the past 7 weeks:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736138

The only platform that has been consistently outselling it is the 3DS, and on a few occasions the Vita.

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That's not really saying much. It's also the only new console currently being sold there. It's not like the wii or 360 will be outselling it. The PS3 maybe, but it's not going to be selling anything spectacular outside of a massive release of a big title there. The PS4 isn't out there, neither is the Xbone, but obviously I don't think anyone is expecting MS's console to do anything more than a trickle of sales. Once the PS4 is released we will see how it fares, but Japan's sales alone are not going to float the wii u like US or UK sales could.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I'm not saying the Wii U should be your only stand alone console. I'm simply saying it has good games and is worth owning. The "I can play it on PC" argument was an attempt to point out how silly the same argument is when you guys use it to discount the Wii U's multiplatform titles yet use those same multiplatform titles to build up the PS4. The point is their good titles to have if you have the system. If they count to boost up one system's library, they should count to boost up the other systems they're on.

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And I still ask, why SHOULDN'T you want the wii u to be your only console? The 360 could be, the PS3 could be, the PS4 and Xbone are almost certainly going to be able to as well... so why should Nintendo fans be fine with having to buy something else + the wii u? Why not ask that Nintendo actually puts out a product that is capable of it AND put the effort into ensuring it is supported well enough to live up to it?

And I personally don't dismiss the wii u's multiplat titles, but it doesn't have as many of of them as the 360/ps3, and is likely not ever going to have as many as the ps4/Xbone will have. If it was getting the full support of 3rd parties this wouldn't even be a discussion from me, and likely many others... but the fact remains that it isn't.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I'd say we're more likely to see a cost reduced gamepad (Smaller, not glossy, removed features like NFC, etc.) to lower the Wii U's price before we see a bundle without the gamepad.

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I hope they do something. Like I said, I want to see a healthy and strong competition from Nintendo as well... I just feel like they are purposefully taking themselves out of the running and carving a niche for only their games to be played.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I'm not saying the Wii U should be your only stand alone console. I'm simply saying it has good games and is worth owning. The "I can play it on PC" argument was an attempt to point out how silly the same argument is when you guys use it to discount the Wii U's multiplatform titles yet use those same multiplatform titles to build up the PS4. The point is their good titles to have if you have the system. If they count to boost up one system's library, they should count to boost up the other systems they're on.

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The point the argument is even raised is not to discredit Nintendo's lack of cross platform games or their quality, but to neutralize the incentive argument of choosing one platform over another in regards to those titles.

Why buy a Wii U when you can play those multiplats on 360, PS3, cheap-PC? It's a fair statement when you consider the main issue is Nintendo's MSRP being ridiculous for the competitive horsepower and software selection.


There are not enough reasons to buy a Wii U for a lot of people, and Nintendo is wasting time churning out Mario universe shit people like, but don't want to buy hardware for.

The Wii's "Secondary console" status was a shame, and the Wii U serving that role just isn't a positive selling point like most Nintendrones want to believe. A lot of gamers who adopted the Wii let it collect dust and never got what they wanted out of it. Now, Nintendo is paying for it. It's not even a malicious grudge, it's a reluctance to spend a lot of money on something that could turn out to be useless again. All that considered, when looking at Nintendo's effort, it's like they are fucking lazy, not competitive, and they aren't going after the mainstream game console market like they said they would.

They are not exciting at all. Reggie again saying at the VGX "What is wrong with you?" to the Doritoshill, while presenting another DKC platformer and feeling the tension should have been answered promptly with an improvised shit list.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

That's not really saying much. It's also the only new console currently being sold there. It's not like the wii or 360 will be outselling it. The PS3 maybe, but it's not going to be selling anything spectacular outside of a massive release of a big title there. The PS4 isn't out there, neither is the Xbone, but obviously I don't think anyone is expecting MS's console to do anything more than a trickle of sales. Once the PS4 is released we will see how it fares, but Japan's sales alone are not going to float the wii u like US or UK sales could.

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It's still a significant bump. And it did get an increase in the US as well. Not as big as some were hoping, but an increase none the less.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

And I still ask, why SHOULDN'T you want the wii u to be your only console? The 360 could be, the PS3 could be, the PS4 and Xbone are almost certainly going to be able to as well... so why should Nintendo fans be fine with having to buy something else + the wii u? Why not ask that Nintendo actually puts out a product that is capable of it AND put the effort into ensuring it is supported well enough to live up to it?

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For the past 3 generations you haven't been able to really get away with owning just one system. Sure you can do it, but you miss out on a lot. During the 32-bit era I owned all 3. I got the Saturn first, then a PS1, and then an N64. They all got played regularly because they each offered something the other didn't have. PS1 didn't have the local multiplayer experience the N64 had. N64 didn't have the great JRPG and Fighting game support the Saturn and PS1 had. You pretty much had to own at least 2. For the 6th Generation you could possibly get by with just a PS2, but anyone that had either an Xbox or a Gamecube most likely also had a PS2. I personally got a Gamecube first, then a PS2, and last an Xbox. I knew a lot of people who owned all three that generation or had a PS2 + GC or PS2 + Xbox. Last gen this held true as well, only this time it was the Wii that everyone had and the PS3 and 360 were the other ones they owned.

So basically having at least 2 consoles has been the norm for the past few generations. With how radically different the experiences and libraries are between these consoles it's pretty hard not to have at least two. The only way you can get away with owning only one console is if you flat out ignore what comes out on everything else and pretend you don't care about it. It has nothing to do with Nintendo consoles, you just can't really do it anymore if you care about certain games and franchises. I'll use the 6th Generation as an example.

The only way I could have gotten away with just a PS2 that Generation was if I didn't care about the following games/franchsies:
Zelda
Super Smash Bros.
Mario Kart
Star Fox
Metroid
Kirby
F-Zero
Phantasy Star Online
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Resident Evil Remake
Resident Evil Zero
Tales of Symphonia
Super Monkey Ball
Skies of Arcadia
Halo
Crimson Skies
Unreal Tournament/Championship
Knights of the Old Republic
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Jet Set Radio Future

Likewise, I couldn't have gotten away ignoring PS2 if I cared about these franchises:
Final Fantasy
Kingdom Hearts
Star Ocean

So you see even with a system with a massive library like the PS2, you miss quite a lot by not owning at least one of the other consoles. So the idea of owning just one console is pretty much a fantasy anymore. It has nothing to do with Nintendo, it has to do with console exclusives. You say Nintendo should be capable of doing it, I say no console is capable of doing it. Even if the Wii U was identical to the PS4 in specs, you'd still have different libraries making it impossible to get by with just that one console. The Gamecube and the Original Xbox proved that.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

The point the argument is even raised is not to discredit Nintendo's lack of cross platform games or their quality, but to neutralize the incentive argument of choosing one platform over another in regards to those titles.

Why buy a Wii U when you can play those multiplats on 360, PS3, cheap-PC? It's a fair statement when you consider the main issue is Nintendo's MSRP being ridiculous for the competitive horsepower and software selection.

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The same can be said when those games are brought up for the PS4 and Xbox One. The point wasn't about those games being used as the sole reason to buy a Wii U, but to point out that they are part of a decent library available to you if you own a Wii U. If multiplatform games can be brought up to boost the PS4 and Xbox One's library, they should be allowed to do the same thing for the Wii U's library.

allow me to bring glad tidings

wii u has sold really well in benelux this nov dec. it sells better then ps4 and xb atm.
probably the huge wave of sony and xbox is dimmed. i went to several toy stores buying presents for kids. and it can not be coincedence anymore
when you see people having wii u with games in their hand.

silly me i never just buy a present so i took days for something cool and i wanna be sure that my kids actually gonna use all those things.
and guess what wii u getting sold over the whole goddamn place on saturn store. obviously it is not only toy stores but electronic stores are having their sell time explosion.
nintendo is doing really well with their console

noticed that it was mainly girls around 16 and 25 that bought the wii u, not that the wii u is a girls console LOL. but i just noticed that.

the price of the wii u btw is lower

at knuckleduster

GTFO
your not gonna buy it even if it is cheaper. you just like to cry like a bitch like you always do

the prices i saw differs
bart smit premium wiiu 280 euro
some saturn 250 (not all saturns dont ask why)
free record shop is bankrupted cause peep dont buy music cd,s no more.
wii u costs there 220
media markt? i dont know

wii u is having their day. and i am really happy they are doing well in europe and japan
i hope america is performing just as good


about those who still complain regardless.
look if you dont like it with all respect dont buy it.
thats how that works

i hear you guys saying wii u should do this n that. but when they do you jump to other complains, and it basically never stops till you realise you either hate or just want it to fail.
that is wrong

knuckleduster is guilty of this in a dark way
some are guilty out of ignorance. but whatever you define as truth. the wii u is there and it sells more then decent atm. and if you like nintendo games and some other games as well. then it is your pick.

play games. love your wife or girlfriend. enjoy life. pray to god if u believe or do yoga whatever you do in your spiritual moments and dont do what you dont wanna do.

and stop crying

I'd buy a Wii U if it went down to 200 loonies

I'd buy a Wii U at £200 if it came with 5 games.