Actual Genesis $ales vs SNES $ales

I brought this up in another thread, but erased it and put it here because I don't think many saw it before and I would like your guys opinion on it. So I figured making a thread for it would get more of a reaction.

I don't think it's totally fair only the model 1 and 2 genesis' were counted at 29 million or so by so many sources while model 1 and 2 snes were counted at 49 million. So model 3 genesis, genesis nomad, cdx/multimega/other, wondermega/x eye/wondermega 2, laserdiscactivemd, aiwa CSD-GM1 boombox, megatec or megaplay, megajet (but by bulk for airlines), megapc, teradrive and more weren't counted (?). Yeah, don't count newer clones, but I think those old varients should count. I think it might be a closer sale comparison if those were counted. It's like Nintendo kept accurate records of snes throughout it's lifetime but Sega and other sources say up to 29 million were sold by 1995. Okay, with other variations and more years I'm sure it sold more than 29 million. In text below a more accurate sold number of about 40 million is counted, why don't more people use this number instead of "29 million sold" ?

Genesis sales numbers
Jump up ^ Worldwide sales
1st party: over 35.4 million[sn 1]
3rd party: 4−5 million[sn 2][sn 3]
Sega Nomad: 1 million[126]

Regional sales
North America: over 22.4−23.4 million (over 20.4 million 1st party[sn 1] + 1−2 million 3rd party[sn 2] + 1 million Sega Nomad[126])
Brazil: 3 million[sn 3]
Japan: 3.58 million[127]
Europe: 8 million[128]
Other: 3.42 million[92] (Left over from initial 29 million,[sn 1] may or may not include overlap with Tec Toy's pre-1995 sales)
Total: 37.4 to over 41.4 million

Sales notes

^ Jump up to: a b c d By the end of 1994 the Sega Genesis had sold 29 million units worldwide, with 14 million of those in North America.[92] These numbers have been further published by multiple other sources, including IGN.[129][82] Sega continued to sell the Genesis worldwide through 1997.[1][2]

Disparate sources from a variety of magazines provide a more detailed history of Sega's first party North American sales through 1997, totaling over 20.4 million. The New York Times stated in 1998: "the company sold some 20 million 16-bit Genesis consoles in the United States alone".[130]

North American sales history
1989-1990: 1.2 million[131]
1991: 1.6 million[132]
1992: 4.5 million[133]
1993: 5.5 million[134]
1994: over 4 million[135]
1995: 2.1 million[41]
1996: 1.1 million[1]
1997: 400,000[2]
Total: over 20.4 million
^ Jump up to: a b Majesco sold between 1 and 2 million units of their North American-only Genesis 3 by the end of 1998.[124]
^ Jump up to: a b Tec Toy has sold over 3 million units of their own Mega Drives in Brazil (as of July 30th, 2012).[125] However, it is unknown if Tec Toy's pre-1995 sales are included in the initial 29 million or not. The Mega Drive is still produced and sold by Tec Toy to this day.

Genesis sales numbers
49.10 million Super NES units were sold worldwide, with 23.35 million of those units sold in the Americas and 17.17 million in Japan.[4] Although it could not quite repeat the success of the NES, which sold 61.91 million units worldwide,[4] the Super NES was the best-selling console of its era.

Got a pm, by "cdx/other" I meant this.

http://img181.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto...4032802065.jpg

I forsee a shitstorm coming to this thread.
Brace yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

I forsee a shitstorm coming to this thread.
Brace yourselves.

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Ha, why is that Bottino? And how would that be any different from other threads here ? Just wanted to know if you think other variants should count or just genesis model 1, 2, (I guess 3 is counted by wiki but not other sources)?

Release date

JP October 29, 1988
NA August 14, 1989
PAL November 30, 1990

Discontinued

WW 1997 (Sega)[1][2]

NA 1999 (Majesco)

Units sold
Estimated from 37.4 to over 41.4 million[s 1]

This is how I always feel during those long long loooooooong discussions about who went on sale when and where
and why who and what had better sales between the time of where and when.

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Originally Posted by Vector

Ha, why is that Bottino? And how would that be any different from other threads here ? Just wanted to know if you think other variants should count or just genesis model 1, 2, (I guess 3 is counted by wiki but not other sources)?

Release date

JP October 29, 1988
NA August 14, 1989
PAL November 30, 1990

Discontinued

WW 1997 (Sega)[1][2]

NA 1999 (Majesco)

Units sold
Estimated from 37.4 to over 41.4 million[s 1]

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You misunderstand me.
I appreciate your effort and i agree with the sales figure around 40 million units.

It's just there's some people that absolutely cannot tolerate that and assume that any number, that's not published by the mainstream media, is a lie.

Didn't we go over this topic years ago? Everyone here knows the 29 Million number is BS. It's a number from 1994, so it's how many systems were sold as of 1994. One only needs to remember that the Genesis was still being sold by Sega (and later Majesco), well into 2000 to know that the 29 Million number is not right.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

You misunderstand me.

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I apologize then.

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I appreciate your effort and i agree with the sales figure around 40 million units.

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Thank you.

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It's just there's some people that absolutely cannot tolerate that and assume that any number, that's not published by the mainstream media, is a lie.

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Okay, I'm not really interested sega 16 vs nintendoage people signing up to sega 16 here barking over 30 million vs 50 million or 40 million vs 50 million or even 50 million vs 50 million +, but just if you guys think the other variants should count on total. And why so many sources are stuck on this 29 million vs 50 million inaccurate sales number figure. It's always like year after year, Sega gets slowly chiseled away from history. I'm waiting for "snes was the only 16 bit era machine".

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Didn't we go over this topic years ago?

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I don;t know, signed up here this year.

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Everyone here knows the 29 Million number is BS. It's a number from 1994, so it's how many systems were sold as of 1994. One only needs to remember that the Genesis was still being sold by Sega (and later Majesco), well into 2000 to know that the 29 Million number is not right.

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Okay, mind answering my main question ? Should other variants be counted ?

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Originally Posted by Vector

Okay, mind answering my main question ? Should other variants be counted ?

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Well, they were all licensed by Sega, so yes.

The MD that is currently being sold here in Brazil by Tec Toy doesn't count anymore i'm afraid.
It's just a clone that doesn't even have a cartride slot anymore.

Thanks for answering Bo I wanted your opinion indeed, but that quote was directed at Treks. I would say by now around 50 million mds and 60 snes were sold.

I don't put much stock in the accuracy of sales numbers. Especially since they weren't as important back then (and were mostly used for stock holders and such). But this:

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1989-1990: 1.2 million[131]

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Having been around before and during that time, being a diehard gamer, those numbers make no sense at all for that year (really, it was 1990 since it was released at the tail end of 1989). The NES was still going strong in mid 1990. It took a while for third party titles to start coming out on the console. The 1991 number seems more realistic (though I'd would have assumed lower than 1.6 million). It was only after the second half of 1991 that the Genesis really took off in popularity. And 1992 that it sky rocketed. So 1989-1990 numbers look very suspect and 1991 numbers a ~little~ iffy. Just think about it; it's no small feat to sell 1 million game consoles in a year. Let alone Sega coming out of nowhere (in the US at least, master system was dead in the water and long forgotten early on).

Cool take Tom. Yeah I bought mine in 1989 and I felt the Genesis didn't blow up until sonic AND the review in the 1991/92 EGM buyers guide after it was rated higher than snes with every reviewer comment mentioning "snes has major slowdown". But then once DKC came out, snes got the crown, near end of 16 bit era sort of. Games like Comix Zone and others were slept on. X-Perts and 32 bit era was the nail in the coffin.

Vector about time you returned dammit.

I say Donkey Kong didn't do much for the SNES. The SNES was gonna win either way.

Exactly like the PS3 and Xbox 360, you can't have tremendous success in North America and Europe, but then bomb in Japan. The competing console is successful in all regions, and thus will win.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Vector about time you returned dammit.

I say Donkey Kong didn't do much for the SNES. The SNES was gonna win either way.

Exactly like the PS3 and Xbox 360, you can't have tremendous success in North America and Europe, but then bomb in Japan. The competing console is successful in all regions, and thus will win.

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Well, did MD/Genesis did outsold the Snes in the Americas and Europe.

This "win" thing is very relative.
Who had the market by the balls before the arrival of the MD?Who counted with the biggest fan base installed?Who had the biggest media hype and support?Who had more money? Just look at the scenario that Nintendo had with the NES.
Even against all the that, Sega with the MD took Nintendo toe-to-toe, and brought down it's cartel. Sure there were other actors involved, but they played a small part in this process( such as the PCE in Japan ).
After those years, the market was split and Nintendo was no longer on top.

Sure, Sega droped the ball later, but that's a diferent story.

In conclusion:
If you take by the cold numbers, the Snes "won".
If you take all those things stated above, the MD "won".

And if you take by the overall quality of the hardware, games , etc.: the Mega Dri... i mean, that's up to you to decide:)

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Originally Posted by Bottino

Well, did MD/Genesis did outsold the Snes in the Americas and Europe.

This "win" thing is very relative.

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I know you are talking to him, but when I mentioned crown/eventually "won", I'm going by perceived mass opinion. Look at my avatar to see what my favorite 16 bit machine is. That's my "winner".

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In conclusion:
If you take by the cold numbers, the Snes "won".
If you take all those things stated above, the MD "won".

And if you take by the overall quality of the hardware, games , etc.: the Mega Dri... i mean, that's up to you to decide:)

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Video game fans won. The genesis and snes are synonymous imo, best console battle ever. Glad I was a teenager and was apart of it. But I see year by year the "retro community" pushing Sega out of history more and more, or not acknowledging honestly what happened those years with the Genesis. That's what it seems like, some have agreed with me on here about that. It lasted a decade officially. Not bad.

What the hells a Mega Drive


yea I consider Sega the winner. What they accomplished with the Genesis, is amazing. Nintendo consoles weren't just popular during the 8-bit era, we're talking a %85 market share, complete control over the game industry. Then with the Genesis, it was the first time Nintendo wasn't the market leader in 7 years.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

What the hells a Mega Drive

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http://files.diadu.net/pictures/reac...8261520531.gif

The OP is the same as Wikipedia's Genesis sales numbers info, yes? Did you put it there? I forget. For the most part it's pretty good. IF those yearly sales numbers for the US are accurate, even with a low-end Majesco sales estimate, it's basically impossible for Nintendo to have won the Americas. 23.35 million SNES, vs. 20.4 (sega us) + 1 (majesco) + 3 (brazil) = 24.4 million, and the actual number is surely higher because the Genesis 3 probably sold over a million. Also if other Latin American countries had official sales, they probably wouldn't be counted there (though I don't know if any did, or if those numbers were significant enough to matter). The narrative has always been that Nintendo won (in the US!) with the SNES because of their late charge and Sega's collapse from late '94 through '96, and these numbers do not entirely disprove that because Nintendo doesn't give a national breakdown to their number, but it seems very unlikely that it actually did. Or rather, it perhaps DID... in 1995-1996. Problem is, after Majesco outsold the SNES in 1998-1999, the Genesis may have gotten its advantage back... it was likely close enough that something like that could have shifted it. Or not. Who knows; we don't have real numbers.

However, I do seriously question that "1 million Sega Nomads sold" part. The only source for that is a very unreliable article that cannot really be trusted. Did they even MAKE a million Nomads? Are there ANY sources from Sega -- press releases or anything -- saying anything specific about Nomad numbers? I do not believe that "fact" there, and I don't trust that source article.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

The OP is the same as Wikipedia's Genesis sales numbers info, yes? Did you put it there?

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I put it in OP yes but not on wiki.

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Originally Posted by Vector

Okay, with other variations and more years I'm sure it sold more than 29 million. In text below a more accurate sold number of about 40 million is counted, why don't more people use this number instead of "29 million sold" ? Just wanted to know if you think other variants should count or just genesis model 1, 2, (I guess 3 is counted by wiki but not other sources)?

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

I forget. For the most part it's pretty good. IF those yearly sales numbers for the US are accurate, even with a low-end Majesco sales estimate, it's basically impossible for Nintendo to have won the Americas. 23.35 million SNES, vs. 20.4 (sega us) + 1 (majesco) + 3 (brazil) = 24.4 million, and the actual number is surely higher because the Genesis 3 probably sold over a million.

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But what is the actual snes and md sales in Americas until 1999 (when Majesco stopped genesis 3)? Genesis had a 2 or 3 year head start on snes.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Also if other Latin American countries had official sales, they probably wouldn't be counted there (though I don't know if any did, or if those numbers were significant enough to matter). The narrative has always been that Nintendo won (in the US!) with the SNES because of their late charge and Sega's collapse from late '94 through '96, and these numbers do not entirely disprove that because Nintendo doesn't give a national breakdown to their number, but it seems very unlikely that it actually did. Or rather, it perhaps DID... in 1995-1996. Problem is, after Majesco outsold the SNES in 1998-1999, the Genesis may have gotten its advantage back... it was likely close enough that something like that could have shifted it. Or not. Who knows; we don't have real numbers.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

However, I do seriously question that "1 million Sega Nomads sold" part. The only source for that is a very unreliable article that cannot really be trusted, this? Did they even MAKE a million Nomads? Are there ANY sources from Sega -- press releases or anything -- saying anything specific about Nomad numbers? I do not believe that "fact" there, and I don't trust that source article.

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No problem, this thread is about finding as much as the truth as possible. Are you counting all the md variants too ABF or just model 1, 2, 3 genesis' + genesis nomad?

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Originally Posted by Vector

I brought this up in another thread, but erased it and put it here because I don't think many saw it before and I would like your guys opinion on it. So I figured making a thread for it would get more of a reaction.

I don't think it's totally fair only the model 1 and 2 genesis' were counted at 29 million or so by so many sources while model 1 and 2 snes were counted at 49 million. So model 3 genesis, genesis nomad, cdx/multimega/other, wondermega/x eye/wondermega 2, laserdiscactivemd, aiwa CSD-GM1 boombox, megatec or megaplay, megajet (but by bulk for airlines), megapc, teradrive and more weren't counted (?). Yeah, don't count newer clones, but I think those old varients should count. I think it might be a closer sale comparison if those were counted. It's like Nintendo kept accurate records of snes throughout it's lifetime but Sega and other sources say up to 29 million were sold by 1995. Okay, with other variations and more years I'm sure it sold more than 29 million. In text below a more accurate sold number of about 40 million is counted, why don't more people use this number instead of "29 million sold" ?

Genesis sales numbers
Jump up ^ Worldwide sales
1st party: over 35.4 million[sn 1]
3rd party: 4−5 million[sn 2][sn 3]
Sega Nomad: 1 million[126]

Regional sales
North America: over 22.4−23.4 million (over 20.4 million 1st party[sn 1] + 1−2 million 3rd party[sn 2] + 1 million Sega Nomad[126])
Brazil: 3 million[sn 3]
Japan: 3.58 million[127]
Europe: 8 million[128]
Other: 3.42 million[92] (Left over from initial 29 million,[sn 1] may or may not include overlap with Tec Toy's pre-1995 sales)
Total: 37.4 to over 41.4 million

Sales notes

^ Jump up to: a b c d By the end of 1994 the Sega Genesis had sold 29 million units worldwide, with 14 million of those in North America.[92] These numbers have been further published by multiple other sources, including IGN.[129][82] Sega continued to sell the Genesis worldwide through 1997.[1][2]

Disparate sources from a variety of magazines provide a more detailed history of Sega's first party North American sales through 1997, totaling over 20.4 million. The New York Times stated in 1998: "the company sold some 20 million 16-bit Genesis consoles in the United States alone".[130]

North American sales history
1989-1990: 1.2 million[131]
1991: 1.6 million[132]
1992: 4.5 million[133]
1993: 5.5 million[134]
1994: over 4 million[135]
1995: 2.1 million[41]
1996: 1.1 million[1]
1997: 400,000[2]
Total: over 20.4 million
^ Jump up to: a b Majesco sold between 1 and 2 million units of their North American-only Genesis 3 by the end of 1998.[124]
^ Jump up to: a b Tec Toy has sold over 3 million units of their own Mega Drives in Brazil (as of July 30th, 2012).[125] However, it is unknown if Tec Toy's pre-1995 sales are included in the initial 29 million or not. The Mega Drive is still produced and sold by Tec Toy to this day.

Genesis sales numbers
49.10 million Super NES units were sold worldwide, with 23.35 million of those units sold in the Americas and 17.17 million in Japan.[4] Although it could not quite repeat the success of the NES, which sold 61.91 million units worldwide,[4] the Super NES was the best-selling console of its era.

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didn't the 29 million figure come from megadrive sales until 1995(or was it 1994)? I know at least in europe the megadrive still sold millions between 1995 and 1998. far outselling the saturn for instance. then there's brazil, perhaps some in usa. 16 bit was still big in 1996. far bigger than 32 bit.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

What the hells a Mega Drive

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http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m...klesnarhbk.gif

Cool bultje. Yeah most youtube videos, ign console reviews and articles when mentioning genesis keep blabbing the 29 million number. But like I previously mentioned "other sources say up to 29 million were sold by 1995. Okay, with other variations and more years I'm sure it sold more than 29 million. In text below a more accurate sold number of about 40 million is counted, why don't more people use this number instead of "29 million sold" ?"

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Originally Posted by Vector

It's always like year after year, Sega gets slowly chiseled away from history. I'm waiting for "snes was the only 16 bit era machine".

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Well the guys at 15:00 were the black sheep of video, at least they remembered Genesis.

While the general consensus is around 43M units sold worldwide (versus 49M for the SNES) all models combined, it is clear that there is a war period (the 16-bit war) which goes from 1990 to 1995 and the SNES is the winner of this war by far (and also of the overall sales, by not that much, finally).

We all as MD fans think Sega won from a moral point of view, because they challenged a very dominant contender with dictactorship-like third parties agreements, etc. but lets face it. Donkey Kong Country was the nail in the coffin.

It's more interesting to view this battle in terms of points won. Having memories of what happened at the time, I would say:

Sega points:
- 1988 earlier launch
- early arcade ports
- sports games
- shooters
- Mortal Kombat
- Aladdin
- Final Fight CD

Nintendo points
- mode 7, color palette and overall specs
- third parties
- Street Fighter II exclusive (for a while, but in a critical moment)
- JRPGs
- FX chip
- Donkey Kong Country
- trend creator (just look at the MD replying to the SNES: final fight/SoR, Mario/Sonic-Kid Chameleon, Zelda/Soleil-Landstalker, DKC/Vectorman-Toy Story, SF2/Eternal Champions, Starwing/Virtua Racing, etc etc)

draw points:
- joypads
- latter games that pushed the limits of each console
- Sonic / Mario (in this generation)

What the hells a Genesis? Dont talk religious in this forum or will warn admins.

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Originally Posted by chilled

While the general consensus is around 43M units sold worldwide (versus 49M for the SNES) all models combined, it is clear that there is a war period (the 16-bit war) which goes from 1990 to 1995 and the SNES is the winner of this war by far (and also of the overall sales, by not that much, finally).

We all as MD fans think Sega won from a moral point of view, because they challenged a very dominant contender with dictactorship-like third parties agreements, etc. but lets face it. Donkey Kong Country was the nail in the coffin.

It's more interesting to view this battle in terms of points won. Having memories of what happened at the time, I would say:

Sega points:
- 1988 earlier launch
- early arcade ports
- sports games
- shooters
- Mortal Kombat
- Aladdin
- Final Fight CD

Nintendo points
- mode 7, color palette and overall specs
- third parties
- Street Fighter II exclusive (for a while, but in a critical moment)
- JRPGs
- FX chip
- Donkey Kong Country
- trend creator (just look at the MD replying to the SNES: final fight/SoR, Mario/Sonic-Kid Chameleon, Zelda/Soleil-Landstalker, DKC/Vectorman-Toy Story, SF2/Eternal Champions, Starwing/Virtua Racing, etc etc)

draw points:
- joypads
- latter games that pushed the limits of each console
- Sonic / Mario (in this generation)

What the hells a Genesis? Dont talk religious in this forum or will warn admins.

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This thread states the oposite:http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...NPD-sales-data!

Final Fight CD is a great conversion, but the Lunar series were a system seller for the Sega-CD.

About the "tend creator" topic, Final Fight didn't start any trend, Double Dragon did that in the Arcades.You also had Golden Axe in the Arcades. Plus, in therms of game quality, there's no comparison between SOR and FF on the Snes.
Eternal Champions came out in 1993, just as SFII:CE on the MD. EC is more close to Mortal Kombat in therms of gameplay and scenario than SFII.
Soleil may be a Zelda "clone", but Landstalker sure as hell isn't. It utilize elements that the Zelda series popularized, but it's a diferent type of game( and a better one, in my opinion ).
Galaxy Force II came out in the Arcades in 1988.So Star Fox is a "reply" to Sega's Y board Arcade game? Virtua Racing came out in 1992 for the Arcades, Star Fox in 1993 for the Snes. One is racing game, the other is a shooter on rails.

DKC was a "reply" to Aladdin in the MD, which was at the time a extremely popular and aclaimed game.
Bonus:
The Final Fantasy games for the snes games were a reply to Sega's Phantasy Star II, but no one remebers/care for that.
Earthworm Jim is originally a MD/Genesis game.

Treasure & Technosoft.

The Final Fantasy games were counter to Dragon Quest. I don't think the Phantasy Star games mattered much in Japan compared to Dragon Quest alone and we know JRPGs were never developed for Western audiences. DKC's false marketing always cracks me up as I had already played Jurassic Park on Genesis by that time and I actually do find it a better game. Eternal Champions is an answer to the Fighting game craze, not Nintendo. Star Fox is admitted by Argonaught to have been inspired by Galaxy Force II. Double Dragon was absolutely the start of the Beat-em Up craze and Final Fight is not a "Nintendo game" by any means. "Zelda-like" Adventure games go all the way back to the 2600.

Treasure, Game Arts, Ancient, Technosoft, and yes even Big Net are still some of my favorite game developers.

Donkey Kong Country was a reply to 32-bit consoles. Nintendo's stance was that you could get a 32-bit level of gaming on the SNES and that the N-64 was the next gen of gaming.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

What the hells a Mega Drive

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http://ushumor.com/wp-content/upload...s-lol-face.jpg

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Originally Posted by sheath

The Final Fantasy games were counter to Dragon Quest. I don't think the Phantasy Star games mattered much in Japan compared to Dragon Quest alone and we know JRPGs were never developed for Western audiences. DKC's false marketing always cracks me up as I had already played Jurassic Park on Genesis by that time and I actually do find it a better game. Eternal Champions is an answer to the Fighting game craze, not Nintendo. Star Fox is admitted by Argonaught to have been inspired by Galaxy Force II. Double Dragon was absolutely the start of the Beat-em Up craze and Final Fight is not a "Nintendo game" by any means. "Zelda-like" Adventure games go all the way back to the 2600.

Treasure, Game Arts, Ancient, Technosoft, and yes even Big Net are still some of my favorite game developers.

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I hate it when people give nintendo credit for goddam near everything. And when you try to explain points like yours to mainstreamers, they just laugh at you.

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

I hate it when people give nintendo credit for goddam near everything. And when you try to explain points like yours to mainstreamers, they just laugh at you.

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Which is funny, when you consider how many original games Sega has created in comparison with Nintendo.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

Which is funny, when you considered how many original games Sega has created in comparison with Nintendo.

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That all sounds right to me, but you know we don't count right?!

Right?!

http://randomoverload.net/wp-content...ople1.jpg1.jpg

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Originally Posted by sheath

That all sounds right to me, but you know we don't count right?!

Right?!

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http://memecrunch.com/meme/XUMM/craz...like/image.png

Oh no I dont
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll...urlco1_250.gif

Haha I bring so much humour into this thread. Truth is I never knew the Genesis is also called a Mega Drive, until 2003.

I wonder what the Donkey Kong-equivalent will be for the PS3, that will help it finally get past the 360.

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Originally Posted by sheath

That all sounds right to me, but you know we don't count right?!

Right?!

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Hmm . . . what if you treat "arcade Sega" completely separately from "home Sega" at the time . . . and omit everything but console exclusive/original game development? . . . OK, probably still a lot more titles (and IPs) than Nintendo was doing, maybe even with 2nd parties included. :p
(granted, you'd still end up including a ton of arcade sequels/spin-offs that were console exclusives . . . which in many cases were better games than "straight ports" too)

And if I lost you there, this was a half serious remark. :p

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

I don't put much stock in the accuracy of sales numbers. Especially since they weren't as important back then (and were mostly used for stock holders and such). But this:

Having been around before and during that time, being a diehard gamer, those numbers make no sense at all for that year (really, it was 1990 since it was released at the tail end of 1989). The NES was still going strong in mid 1990. It took a while for third party titles to start coming out on the console. The 1991 number seems more realistic (though I'd would have assumed lower than 1.6 million). It was only after the second half of 1991 that the Genesis really took off in popularity. And 1992 that it sky rocketed. So 1989-1990 numbers look very suspect and 1991 numbers a ~little~ iffy. Just think about it; it's no small feat to sell 1 million game consoles in a year. Let alone Sega coming out of nowhere (in the US at least, master system was dead in the water and long forgotten early on).

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Yeah, that does seem high, also taking Mike Katz's "about half a million in the first year" genesis sales comment in his interview with Melf. OTOH, that might not have included the 1990 holiday sales, so I'm not sure.

Well, that, and remember some of these dates may be going by fiscal years and not calendar years . . . and then there's the confusion of JP vs US ficscal calendars, etc.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

Final Fight CD is a great conversion, but the Lunar series were a system seller for the Sega-CD.

About the "tend creator" topic, Final Fight didn't start any trend, Double Dragon did that in the Arcades.You also had Golden Axe in the Arcades. Plus, in therms of game quality, there's no comparison between SOR and FF on the Snes. Eternal Champions came out in 1993, just as SFII:CE on the MD. EC is more close to Mortal Kombat in therms of gameplay and scenario than SFII.
Soleil may be a Zelda "clone", but Landstalker sure as hell isn't. It utilize elements that the Zelda series popularized, but it's a diferent type of game( and a better one, in my opinion ).
Galaxy Force II came out in the Arcades in 1988.So Star Fox is a "reply" to Sega's Y board Arcade game? Virtua Racing came out in 1992 for the Arcades, Star Fox in 1993 for the Snes. One is racing game, the other is a shooter on rails. DKC was a "reply" to Aladdin in the MD, which was at the time a extremely popular and aclaimed game. Bonus: The Final Fantasy games for the snes games were a reply to Sega's Phantasy Star II, but no one remebers/care for that.

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I'm not talking about "replies" in terms of what is the real videogame history as a whole, but as what was percieved at the time and the Sega & Nintendo strategists decided to do and who they were fighting.

For example, I mentioned Final Fight CD as a point for Sega because Nintendo so failed to convert Final Fight (which is graphically superior to SoR I, which is barely animated at all... even if I still love the game) to SNES that they had to release a second version (Guy) which was just as bad.

So I'm not tallking about trend creators in general videogaming history, but as many of you, I was there in the 90-95 period and the war was between these two platforms and between the big games (as in big budget and big marketing, and usually but not always, also the best games). Obviously you can always find an older game on which anyone is based in terms of gameplay, theme, etc but I'm talking about comercial responses during the 16-bit war, hence the Starwing FX vs Virtua Racing SVP comparison and the point for Nintendo for being there first (aslo there are not many SVP games out there...), just as with popularizing some trends (no Zelda 3 wasnt the first of its genre -just look at its title- but it represented the THE landmark of the generation, and Landstalker was the answer of Sega to Zelda -Soleil came in much later- and is my personal favorite MD game, this is just as obvious as Kid Chameleon being the Sega alternative to Mario "we just need something similar, but bigger" was usually on their minds (EChampions...))

I forgot the Sega Treasure point, thanks for pointing that. There must be others on both sides, please keep adding yours.

Anyway, as I said, this is a more interesting debate than cold figures but remains on topic (maybe not...).

Earthworm Jim, Lunar CDs, Ecco (possibly the one truly original Megadrive game that defines the platform), etc are not "points" in the war as nothing major happened around them at the time (sadly).

Mortal Kombat I, Aladdin (because of the weaker Capcom SNES version) or Final Fight CD were. This is not a post about the best games on each platform.
Eternal Champions responded to the Street Fighter II SNES exclusive even if SF2' SCE came at the same time (probably Sega just got Capcom in during EC development, and with the fighting craze it was nonsense to scrap the game).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

What the hells a Mega Drive

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http://xalaga.com/geeklink/wp-conten...E-Facepalm.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chilled

I'm not talking about "replies" in terms of what is the real videogame history as a whole, but as what was percieved at the time and the Sega & Nintendo strategists decided to do and who they were fighting.

For example, I mentioned Final Fight CD as a point for Sega because Nintendo so failed to convert Final Fight (which is graphically superior to SoR I, which is barely animated at all... even if I still love the game) to SNES that they had to release a second version (Guy) which was just as bad.

So I'm not tallking about trend creators in general videogaming history, but as many of you, I was there in the 90-95 period and the war was between these two platforms and between the big games (as in big budget and big marketing, and usually but not always, also the best games). Obviously you can always find an older game on which anyone is based in terms of gameplay, theme, etc but I'm talking about comercial responses during the 16-bit war, hence the Starwing FX vs Virtua Racing SVP comparison and the point for Nintendo for being there first (aslo there are not many SVP games out there...), just as with popularizing some trends (no Zelda 3 wasnt the first of its genre -just look at its title- but it represented the THE landmark of the generation, and Landstalker was the answer of Sega to Zelda -Soleil came in much later- and is my personal favorite MD game, this is just as obvious as Kid Chameleon being the Sega alternative to Mario "we just need something similar, but bigger" was usually on their minds (EChampions...))

I forgot the Sega Treasure point, thanks for pointing that. There must be others on both sides, please keep adding yours.

Anyway, as I said, this is a more interesting debate than cold figures but remains on topic (maybe not...).

Earthworm Jim, Lunar CDs, Ecco (possibly the one truly original Megadrive game that defines the platform), etc are not "points" in the war as nothing major happened around them at the time (sadly).

Mortal Kombat I, Aladdin (because of the weaker Capcom SNES version) or Final Fight CD were. This is not a post about the best games on each platform.
Eternal Champions responded to the Street Fighter II SNES exclusive even if SF2' SCE came at the same time (probably Sega just got Capcom in during EC development, and with the fighting craze it was nonsense to scrap the game).

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So Nintendo did the SNES Final Fight conversion and not Capcom?

My point was that we need to deconstruct this notion that Nintendo created everything in the video game world, and other companies like Sega were just playing catch all the time with it.

Here's the general public perception:
http://www.ign.com/top-25-consoles/4.html
"Developer Rare continued to push the console in its later years with the help of Nintendo, introducing larger cart sizes with Donkey Kong Country, and a flood of third party support pushed the Super Nintendo to legendary status with games like Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Gradius III, Contra III, Mega Man X, Secret of Mana, and many, many more. When it comes to a pure concentration of AAA titles, few consoles – if any – can stand up to the Super NES"


If on the Snes we have Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger, on the MD we have Phantasy Star and Shining Force.For Gradius III( really?)we have Thunder Force, MUSHA, Eliminate Down etc..For Contra III we have Hard Corps( a much better game in my opinion) ,Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier .For Secret of Mana, we have something like Beyond Oasis. For Mega Man X, we have Revenge of Shinobi or perhaps Rocket Knight Adventures.

The big diference is that everyone knows those Snes titles, but not so much about the MD ones.Why?
On sheath's Gamepilgrimage, he made this statement:
"The preference for Mega-Corporations and Mega-Publishers are reflected by the media's excessively positive portrayal of the Super Nintendo."

Marketing and media interests helps to create a scenario that doesn't really exist in reality.That goes for everything.
The real Che Guevara is a very different person than the one depicted in history books. The same goes for the civil war that's happening in Syria, etc.

I don't care if people think a particular console is the world's eighth wonder. I just despise manipulation of the facts by media and corporations.

IGN: "the Genesis had better sports games". Really? it seems no one is aware of what the Genesis excels at.

Take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Pws9v9F88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRZ6A08KMdk

Not a single shooter in these videos.