PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

Two more games: 18 wheeler and 90 minutes soccer.

18 wheeler: Seems the game can push a somewhat heavier polygon count outside of arcade.
44,525 triangles per frame x 30 fps = 1.3 million polygons per second. Not bad considering it came out 1999 on naomi.
https://i.ibb.co/qn6xHSP/18wheelerscene.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/HVGfChY/18wheelerscene1.jpg

90 minutes football is a peculiar one.On a real console it runs like 15-30 fps(its steady if you shut off commentary) When the game was localized for the japanese as J league Spectacler Soccer they somewhat modified the graphics. They modified how the lods of the football players behave(it isnt as vicious) but they took out all stadium side details( people and cameramen) significantly reducing the polygon count while improving frame rate.The frame rate is better but still sub 30 fps unless you shut off commentary. Also polygon count during gameplay relies on what camera chosen. Seems low verticle shows the most.

90 minutes entrance(closeup) : 45,795 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.3 million polygons
https://i.ibb.co/0ZVJ9zw/90minutesscene4.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/TcQPVsG/90minutesscene3.jpg

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They certainly sold a ton of Wii Fit and Balance boards. I believe Nintendo managed to sell an insane number of Balance Boards for the Wii.

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I think that was the issue with the system. Nintendo sold a ton of system to non-gamers who only used it for Wii Play or Wi Fit

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Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo

Two more games: 18 wheeler and 90 minutes soccer.

18 wheeler: Seems the game can push a somewhat heavier polygon count outside of arcade.

90 minutes football is a peculiar one.On a real console it runs like 15-30 fps(its steady if you shut off commentary) When the game was localized for the japanese as J league Spectacler Soccer they somewhat modified the graphics. They modified how the lods of the football players behave(it isnt as vicious) but they took out all stadium side details( people and cameramen) significantly reducing the polygon count while improving frame rate.The frame rate is better but still sub 30 fps unless you shut off commentary. Also polygon count during gameplay relies on what camera chosen. Seems low verticle shows the most.

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I'm sure 18 Wheeler is running on the Shenmue engine, they look very simuair and even the misting effect to hide the drawn-in looks much the same. I'm amazed at the polygon count of 90 min's TBH. The game looks so bad, but that's some nice polygons performance by Smilebit

Does anyone know how many Polygons Buggy Heat is pushing? I was impressed by that when it launched in Japan, it looked like a Model 3 game

And speaking of DC polygons how many Polygons are be pushed with Resident Evil: Code Veronica. I remember when I got the demo that came with RE2 (In Japan) and then it was the most incredible looking game I had ever seen in the home

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

And speaking of DC polygons how many Polygons are be pushed with Resident Evil: Code Veronica. I remember when I got the demo that came with RE2 (In Japan) and then it was the most incredible looking game I had ever seen in the home

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I talked about it a few pages back(no images). On average it doesnt push a whole lot. Its like 12K to 35K tris per frame @ 30 fps. For the most part its cruising at 16k/20ks triangles per frame. Whats actually impressve is the lighting. There was a hallway with two wall lamps you can actually receive lights from both then turn on your lighter and dont forget the game probably already has 1 or 2 directional lights. The dreamcast has to do all that on the poor cpu, its amazing it even pushes the polygon count it does. It really isnt designed to run such amount of lights and maintain a high polygon count.

Old articles talked about how nextech had to reach out to sega to smooth it out and help with the light optimizations. But yea on regular its doing 600K-500K polygons per second while peaking around 1 million polygons per second.

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oes anyone know how many Polygons Buggy Heat is pushing? I was impressed by that when it launched in Japan, it looked like a Model 3 game

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Far from model 3. I havent looked at it in years but its rather low. Just like their other games( surf rocket racer). CRI usually doesnt push alot of polygons , exception 18 wheeler though. Maybe ill look into much much later.

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Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo

.CRI usually doesnt push alot of polygons , exception 18 wheeler though. Maybe ill look into much much later.

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18 Wheeler isn't a CRI game really. We all know the only reason they were said to have bought AM#2 was really for CSK to hide the fact that sale was really a way of giving SEGA a much-needed cash injection, without breaking any Japan stock market rules.

I was quite impressed with Buggy Heat and Aero Dancing i on the DC . I don't know what happened with Power Jet Racing 2001 mind that game just looked wrong and I was more impressed with the Water effects on Wave Race 64.
You're right about the lighting in Code Veronica it was amazing and the also the texture work and lip-synch modelling was something else too (for the time)

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

And speaking of DC polygons how many Polygons are be pushed with Resident Evil: Code Veronica. I remember when I got the demo that came with RE2 (In Japan) and then it was the most incredible looking game I had ever seen in the home

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Mark from CGR actually reviewed the game when it was released(literally in 2000), him and his co-host almost busted a nut over the graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_xduivHGpY

The polycounts are good enough, but whats really impressive are indeed the light sourcing and atmospheric fog.

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Originally Posted by Yharnamresident

Mark from CGR actually reviewed the game when it was released(literally in 2000), him and his co-host almost busted a nut over the graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_xduivHGpY

The polycounts are good enough, but whats really impressive are indeed the light sourcing and atmospheric fog.

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I got the import version of the Value Pack just before Christmas 1999 and the demo just was leagues ahead of any game visually.
https://i.imgur.com/Rrxnu6V.jpg


The textures, lighting and lifelike human models were insane for the time.
Its also for me the best RE Game and the best DC game going

Another DC vs ps2 one. This time same devs similar game engines. Its sega WOW's World series baseball 2k1 vs Gekitō Pro Yakyū(ps2). Sega wow used the same engine including home run king on the gamecube. On the renderware side its Trickstyle vs Airblade.Both by Criterion. Alot of people seem to
think airblade is a spiritual successor.

Trickstyle: its a strange one for the dreamcast. It shows very low polygon counts and barely playable framerate on real hardware.
It seems to do viewport clipping , distance clipping and backface culling on both characters and stage.(not a whole lot of dc games clip EVERYTHING)

trickstyle - 14,099 tris per frame x 30 fps = 422k polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/Cznf29n/trickstyle1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/HtYBCKz/trickstyle2.jpg

Airblade - this is on the ps2. Extremely high poly game even though its from 2001. And it isnt the only game to go this high that year.
its running at 135,739 tris per frame x 60 fps = 8.1 million polygons. Would require some serious modification to run on the dc.
https://i.ibb.co/ZckmP1X/airblade1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/RQgts6j/airblade2.jpg

Sega WOW's World series baseball 2k1 - This engine has run on naomi, dc, ps2 , triforce and gamecube. Surprisingly It out performs gekitou
on the ps2 even though its from 2003. Homerun Kings on the gamecube uses this engine to tremendous results. That game runs like 40K- 85K tris per frame at 60 fps. Meaning it can go over 5.1 million polygons a second on the gamecube.

World series baseball 2k1 - Pitcher cam : 21,512 tris per frame x 60fps = 1.2 million polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/g9WXTmk/worldseriesbaseball1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/bvWS3Fj/worldseriesbaseball2.jpg

Batter cam(no one on the bases ): 15,886 tris per frame x 60 fps = 953K polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/gdLH25T/worldseriesbaseball4.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/qytQMGY/worldseriesbaseball3.jpg

Gekitou Pro Yakyuu Mizushima Shinji All Stars vs. Pro Yakyuu(ps2) - This one seems to have alot in common with the naomi version of the engine/dynamite baseball. Even so its out performed by its DC counterpart. Surprisingly since it actually looks a little better, might the different art styles.

13,995 tris per frame x 60 fps = 839k polygons per second.

https://i.ibb.co/hHR3CsL/gekitouproyakyuu2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/qYPjhCf/gekitouproyakyuu1.jpg

I had post comparing 4 different games across 2 platforms but for some reason it went to moderation. So instead Jet grind radio.
It doesnt really have consistent polygon count but its decent overall.

Jet grind radio uses alot of modifier shadows and lods for the buildings.

Character select - 39,985 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.19 million polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/7gzvr8k/jetgrindradioscene1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/XyxtdRR/jetgrindradioscene2.jpg


Grind city - 28,636 tris per frame x 30 fps = 859k polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/CQD3Y8v/jetgrindradioscene3.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/TWvPDGm/jetgrindradioscene4.jpg


benten cho ?- 32,060 tris per frame x 30 fps = 961k polygons per second.
https://i.ibb.co/TMVn5NK/jetgrindradioscene5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ZJZSg4V/jetgrindradioscene6.jpg

I'm installing these programs and emulators here to help extract polygon counts especially from ps2 and gcn games

With this Blender is it possible to extract the counts per scene of those ps2 games that everyone has curiosities ?

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Originally Posted by SegaAMD

I'm installing these programs and emulators here to help extract polygon counts especially from ps2 and gcn games

With this Blender is it possible to extract the counts per scene of those ps2 games that everyone has curiosities ?

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Not sure what your asking. For ps2 you need pcsx2 9.8 which was the last version to allow extracting the scene using shift+f8 into an .obj file. Blender is merely a way to open the obj file. For GameCube I don't even think you need extraction, doesn't the debug info show primitives + primitives(dl) to get your polygon count per frame? For psp jpcsp supports extracting the scene to an object right off the bat. Then you can use ninja ripper on Sega hikaru and Naomi 2(demul) as it doesn't work too well on Naomi 1 and Dreamcast side.

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Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo

Jet grind radio uses alot of modifier shadows and lods for the buildings.

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Isn't that the real technical term for cel-shading?

BTW what the polygons count for Zombie Revenge ? . The game wasn't the best, but it looked amazing. I also thought Sakura Wars 3 and IV were a technical showcase for the DC too

There are reflective pools of water in Zombie revenge that impressed me at the time.

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Originally Posted by SegataS

There are reflective pools of water in Zombie revenge that impressed me at the time.

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I was super impressed with the game lighting and also that stage where you were fighting on a lift. Really thought the game looked amazing, sadly for me, it wasn't much fun to play and I was a little disappointed with it (Loved the House of the Dead stage mind)