Ps4 bombing horribly in japan?

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Originally Posted by Lan Di

Don't mean to crash your slobbering PC love affair Knuckle Duster, but as you know I have a PC was well as a PS4. For me its all about variety and exclusive titles/content that the PC will never see. I'll be getting Dark Souls II on PC for sure. But I cant say the same for the God Of War series, Last Of Us, Last Guardian (fingers crossed) etc.

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http://i.imgur.com/O19VJxC.jpg

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

This chart should put things into perspective:

http://i5.minus.com/jb1DuP9WzMrL54.jpg

The Xbox division has only been profitable since 2009, and even then it's a pathetic drop in the bucket. And with the Xbox One it's most likely to go into losing money again. There's already investors begging Microsoft to drop it.

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There are always investors begging Microsoft to give up diverse brands and markets, to focus on the safe, profitable enterprise products they are good at.

Microsoft's Xbox was always just a drop in the bucket. It's a disposable pipe dream to crush Sony and dominate home entertainment. It's far from pathetic, and the whole thing was redesigned to be integrated with their Azure platform, for better or worse in the short term. I would really like to know what's uniquely pathetic about Xbox, aside from some obtuse disregard for it as a loss leading brand.

Xbox shutting down is so fucking radical, stupid and unlikely to even conceive of outside of the dramatic shit heap of game journalism circlejerks, that you could also say they might just buyout and assimilate Nintendo into their infrastructure, just because it would give them a platform in Japan and also destroy a lot of hope for Sony.

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The Xbox division has only been profitable since 2009, and even then it's a pathetic drop in the bucket. And with the Xbox One it's most likely to go into losing money again. There's already investors begging Microsoft to drop it

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Yes a shareholder who owns less than 1% of the company

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The most recent example would be Tomb Raider. Both versions run at 1080p with the same graphical effects. The PS4 version averages about 60fps, the Xbox one version averages about 30fps.

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Its not quite a good example as the game was made by 2 different developers and Nixxes showed with the DC version of Soul Reaver that they love 60 fps with their updates . No question the PS4 has the edge in the GPU dept but the XBox 1 isn't that far behind

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And with the Xbox One it's most likely to go into losing money again

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MS made money on the XBox 360 and in not for the TROD and the billion in cost them they would have made even more the likes of LIVE and the XBLA transactions are a huge cash cow for MS. MS aren't going to drop the XBox any time soon more so with PC sales on the decline and MS facing huge competition to the likes of google and so on. Sony lost a ton on the PS3 in the early years and I doubt Vita going to make them much money but the console sector is too important to both for them to drop .

Since it was brought up, I am wondering why someone doesn't just buyout Nintendo?

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Originally Posted by Obviously

Since it was brought up, I am wondering why someone doesn't just buyout Nintendo?

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I think Microsoft tried to before launching the XBox. Back then, the reason was because Nintendo had the hardware and software business to make launching a Microsoft console a piece of cake. But these days, any buyer would most likely be a stock buyout from a hedge fund more interested in the massive cash reserves it could grab at a fraction of the price and any equity that it could get. They would just sell everything off and run away with the money.

The only thing that has stopped any of that from happening, has been the controlling share in stock that Yamauchi held onto until he died. And now Nintendo is buying the bulk of that back under the guise of reducing his family's tax burden, but in reality, it's to ensure they don't sell it off to a company who wants to mount a take over.

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Originally Posted by rusty

I think Microsoft tried to before launching the XBox. Back then, the reason was because Nintendo had the hardware and software business to make launching a Microsoft console a piece of cake. But these days, any buyer would most likely be a stock buyout from a hedge fund more interested in the massive cash reserves it could grab at a fraction of the price and any equity that it could get. They would just sell everything off and run away with the money.

The only thing that has stopped any of that from happening, has been the controlling share in stock that Yamauchi held onto until he died. And now Nintendo is buying the bulk of that back under the guise of reducing his family's tax burden, but in reality, it's to ensure they don't sell it off to a company who wants to mount a take over.

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I think any company making games would LOVE to be able to get instant access to Nintendo's IP. But they are still worth a fair amount, and they are not exactly open to the prospect. Mounting a hostile takeover would likely see most of the talent leave the company in the process.

I'm sure even in an amicable takeover plenty would leave or take the opportunity to simply retire anyways.

Either way, it's not seen as worth it. When MS was looking at it, they had the money but it would have just cost entirely too much. That is still the case today as well.

If Nintendo continues to devalue and lose money in the future however... well, then that would have to be seen.


Personally, as much as I want them to either get back int he game with real hardware, or just go 3rd party... I don't want to see them be just another part of some other company. Part of Sega's problems is that they are no longer really "Sega". They are the name, but the culture that lead to their success (and problems) is not the same. I am fairly sure the same would happen to Nintendo before too long if they were folded into another company.

I wonder if it's because of all the great launch games that totally revolutionize the way we think of gaming, like Knack and Killzone and... oh wait.

Getting a system day one when there isn't anything absolutely amazing on it is dumb. I'll stick to my PC which is still getting new releases, and I have like, 200-300 games due to Steam sales :D

I'd rather have a 3DO than a PS4 or Xbox One right now.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Its not quite a good example as the game was made by 2 different developers and Nixxes showed with the DC version of Soul Reaver that they love 60 fps with their updates . No question the PS4 has the edge in the GPU dept but the XBox 1 isn't that far behind

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It's not the GPU, it's the memory. The PS4 has significantly faster memory than the Xbox One, and that is what's making such a huge difference here. I'd say Tomb Raider is a fair comparison. It shows us exactly what the gap is on both consoles when they are doing the exact same graphical effects at the same resolution.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

MS made money on the XBox 360 and in not for the TROD and the billion in cost them they would have made even more the likes of LIVE and the XBLA transactions are a huge cash cow for MS. MS aren't going to drop the XBox any time soon more so with PC sales on the decline and MS facing huge competition to the likes of google and so on. Sony lost a ton on the PS3 in the early years and I doubt Vita going to make them much money but the console sector is too important to both for them to drop .

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They only made money on it 4-5 years after it released. And even then it's still not a significant amount compared to the rest of their income. The point is that if any of the three console makers are likely to drop out of the market, it's Microsoft. For most of the time they've been in it it's done nothing but lose money for them. And when it has been profitable, it hasn't really produced that much profit for them. That doesn't mean I think it's going to happen any time soon, it's just a sobering fact to bring up.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

Since it was brought up, I am wondering why someone doesn't just buyout Nintendo?

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Because it would still cost a ton of money to do.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

It's not the GPU, it's the memory. The PS4 has significantly faster memory than the Xbox One, and that is what's making such a huge difference here.

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I'd say the reverse is more likely to be a problem. The XBone and PS4 have almost the same GPU, but the PS4's opted for a bit beefier specs.
The RAM issue between the two is certainly not minor, but the additional SRAM in the Xbone is something that will require devs to tweak to really get the most out of.

If that isn't factored around to try and get the most out of it, then both systems are going to be almost identical, with the PS4 having a bit beefier GPU and much faster RAM.

The RAM can be tweaked and worked with via SRAM so long as the developer knows how to make use of it. The GPU there's nothing they can do... It's just a slightly less capable version of what's in the PS4. They can certainly work around it to mask that... which I think is exactly what the slightly lower native resolution for most games are doing. They sacrifice a bit of native resolution, letting it upscale it, in order to keep a solid performance standard.

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Originally Posted by 16-bit

Getting a system day one when there isn't anything absolutely amazing on it is dumb. I'll stick to my PC which is still getting new releases, and I have like, 200-300 games due to Steam sales :D

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Keep in mind that the ps4 has only just launched and it often takes a while for a system to get major attention and usually takes the release of a few groundbreaking games which usually also take some time to be released. When was the last time any console has had anything majorly important come out alongside release, certainly not the 3DS and that is huge in japan.

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Originally Posted by CoconutMan

Keep in mind that the ps4 has only just launched and it often takes a while for a system to get major attention and usually takes the release of a few groundbreaking games which usually also take some time to be released. When was the last time any console has had anything majorly important come out alongside release, certainly not the 3DS and that is huge in japan.

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Which is why I'm saying it's stupid to buy a console day one, unless there's a game like Super Mario 64 that totally revolutionizes.

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Originally Posted by 16-bit

Which is why I'm saying it's stupid to buy a console day one, unless there's a game like Super Mario 64 that totally revolutionizes.

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Agree totally. Not sure why people are running out and buying PS4 or Xbone at the moment. That's just me, of course. I don't even like to pay $60 for a game and will just wait until it inevitably hits $20.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

I'd say the reverse is more likely to be a problem. The XBone and PS4 have almost the same GPU, but the PS4's opted for a bit beefier specs.
The RAM issue between the two is certainly not minor, but the additional SRAM in the Xbone is something that will require devs to tweak to really get the most out of.

If that isn't factored around to try and get the most out of it, then both systems are going to be almost identical, with the PS4 having a bit beefier GPU and much faster RAM.

The RAM can be tweaked and worked with via SRAM so long as the developer knows how to make use of it. The GPU there's nothing they can do... It's just a slightly less capable version of what's in the PS4. They can certainly work around it to mask that... which I think is exactly what the slightly lower native resolution for most games are doing. They sacrifice a bit of native resolution, letting it upscale it, in order to keep a solid performance standard.

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There's quite a difference in speed between the GDDR5 (same as PC GPU) and the DDR3 being used in the XBone. I was surprised when I'd heard that MS was going to use DDR3 memory for their VRAM, and it might end up keeping games at 30fps or 720p to allow the memory to keep up with texture mapping.

i hope it does well (since a console needs to out there) but if any #'s disappoint, let's not act like much of the launch lineup was japan-centric.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

but the additional SRAM in the Xbone is something that will require devs to tweak to really get the most out of.

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The SRAM is there for render targets and stream out buffers, nothing else. It's only 32MB but has a massive, massive bandwidth and a direct connection to the GPU. But as you say, the GPU -> RAM bandwidth looks pretty puny in comparison. But remember; the PS3 really lacked in comparison to the 360 at first due to people using forward rendering techniques, where the lack of GPU power and VRAM bandwidth hurt the PS3 quite a bit. Then deferred rendering/lighting techniques came into fashion and the PS3 quickly started looking pretty close to the XBox since GPU specs and VRAM bandwidth were less important in those cases.

Who's to say that a similar shift in rendering techniques won't happen with this gen, and the XBOne ends up being pretty competitive, despite the smaller numbers?

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Originally Posted by rusty

The SRAM is there for render targets and stream out buffers, nothing else. It's only 32MB but has a massive, massive bandwidth and a direct connection to the GPU. But as you say, the GPU -> RAM bandwidth looks pretty puny in comparison. But remember; the PS3 really lacked in comparison to the 360 at first due to people using forward rendering techniques, where the lack of GPU power and VRAM bandwidth hurt the PS3 quite a bit. Then deferred rendering/lighting techniques came into fashion and the PS3 quickly started looking pretty close to the XBox since GPU specs and VRAM bandwidth were less important in those cases.

Who's to say that a similar shift in rendering techniques won't happen with this gen, and the XBOne ends up being pretty competitive, despite the smaller numbers?

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That was my point about mentioning it. It provides an avenue to make the slower main RAM pool a bit less of an issue. But the GPU differences really have no such method. There are not significant differences between the systems graphic architecture, so it's very much an apples to apples comparison... it's just the Xbone has a slightly smaller apple.

The PS4 will always have an edge there. It's not a HUGE edge by any stretch of the imagination, but for any devs willing to put in the time/money to get the most out of both systems, the PS4 will have the advantage. And for some games I'd say that will even be noticeable to the average player, even if it isn't a sloppy job on the Xbone version.