Micro-64 Feature: Nintendo 64 Vs. Sega Saturn

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Originally Posted by Soulis

He is obnoxious and bratty for me. I don't care that much if you don't agree and i don't have to "prove" it to you. It's my opinion.

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And I don't have to take it seriously then because you can't give a simple explanation or example when asked. It's coming off more like you didn't actually play the game and are just regurgitating what others have said, and when asked you can't point any examples out because you actually don't know of any.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Just in your opinion. A minority opinion too.

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Yes it is just my opinion, and I'm aware it's not the majority. However I have at least explained my reasoning behind it, something you seem incapable of doing.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Me and many more people. In fact, you are one of the very few people i have seen who think otherwise. It's fine if you like him.

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See here's the funny thing. You and those "many other people" are not in fact the majority on this one. You are the minority, a very vocal and obnoxious minority, but the minority none the less. How do I know this? The fact that all those "bad" modern Sonic games sold well, and still sell well when they get rereleased years later. If everyone hated modern Sonic as much as you try to claim, it would be reflected in the sales. It's not:

http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Sonic

Notice something? Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 outsold Sonic CD, and Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2. Those 3 games were clearly aimed at the audience you claim to represent. The only games to outsell Adventure and Adventure 2 are Generations and Allstars Racing Transformed.

The internet has merely given you and those many other people a soapbox, and it makes you think you're the majority when you're not.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

you don't really have an argument beyond "It's cringeworthy because I say so"

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Well, yeah. It's my opinion and memories. Nothing more.

Jee, the Sonic fanbase is indeed obnoxious and annoying... It's not just a rumor. Damn.

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because you can't give a simple explanation or example when asked. It's coming off more like you didn't actually play the game and are just regurgitating what others have said, and when asked you can't point any examples out because you actually don't know of any.

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You really want a proof that Sonic is obnoxious? Just play the game. It's ironic that you, saying that he is not, makes you look like you are the one who haven't played it. I played it and hated it, thank you very much.

Do you also want me to prove to you that i hated it?

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Jee, the Sonic fanbase is indeed obnoxious and annoying... It's not just a rumor. Damn.

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Keep on resorting to ad hominem, it makes you look really good in just about any argument.

:roll:

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Originally Posted by Thief

Well, yeah. It's my opinion and memories. Nothing more.

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That's not enough. He needs proof. Do you have any documents? Those memories of yours... do you have a database where you store them so he can analyze them?

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Originally Posted by Soulis

That's not enough. He needs proof. Do you have any documents? Those memories of yours... do you have a database where you store them so he can analyze them?

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Except it's more like this:

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I don't like modern Sonic! He's bratty and obnoxious!

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

What about him is bratty and obnoxious? What about modern Sonic is more bratty and obnoxious than old Sonic?

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I dunno

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

:roll:

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If it's your opinion that's fine, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously if you can't explain it or back it up with evidence.

@Soulis I swear your a Nintendo fanboy to the MAX! It's like why you even on a "SEGA" forum but yet HATES EVERYTHING PC or Sega related! We or US (Ttue sega fans) don't need to be put up with your petty bullcrap! You act so childish when we talk shit about Nintendo (well NES or Super Nintendo related) especially Metroid or any other forgotten series by them! what's with the biased hate bro! I know your not like this, but it just seriously needs to stop before it's too late!


Just think about it...

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

If it's your opinion that's fine, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously if you can't explain it or back it up with evidence.

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You mean like how you proved your opinion is more legit than anyone else's? How? By posting a link to the game's script? Or a video that is so cringe worthy i couldn't even finish it?

Again. It's ok if you like that stuff. I don't judge you.

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Originally Posted by DSwizzy145

@Soulis I swear your a Nintendo fanboy to the MAX! It's like why you even on a "SEGA" forum but yet HATES EVERYTHING PC or Sega related! We or US (Ttue sega fans) don't need to be put up with your petty bullcrap! You act so childish when we talk shit about Nintendo (well NES or Super Nintendo related) especially Metroid or any other forgotten series by them! what's with the biased hate bro! I know your not like this, but it just seriously needs to stop before it's too late!


Just think about it...

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I'm not sure if this is serious, it seems like it's not.

@Theif Honestly it's a shit opinion and not a good one that's for sure

@Soulis You took the words right outta my mouth as i was gonna say the same thing about you as well

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Originally Posted by Soulis

You mean like how you proved your opinion is more legit than anyone else's? How? By posting a link to the game's script? Or a video that is so cringe worthy i couldn't even finish it?

Again. It's ok if you like that stuff. I don't judge.

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I posted videos asking you to point out what lines are cringeworthy, something you've not been able to do. You've simply taken the easy way out and said "It's all cringe worthy so there!" which is a childish response when you find yourself stuck. The entire script can't be cringe worthy, especially when most of the lines are actually pretty low on the cheesiness factor, the lines aren't overacted or ridiculously delivered, etc.

You can't even point to one specific line of dialog and say "This line is cringe worthy because..." which tells me you don't really have an argument or opinion of your own, you're just regurgitating what others have told you.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I posted videos asking you to point out what lines are cringeworthy, something you've not been able to do. You've simply taken the easy way out and said "It's all cringe worthy so there!" which is a childish response when you find yourself stuck. The entire script can't be cringe worthy, especially when most of the lines are actually pretty low on the cheesiness factor, the lines aren't overacted or ridiculously delivered, etc.

You can't even point to one specific line of dialog and say "This line is cringe worthy because..." which tells me you don't really have an argument or opinion of your own, you're just regurgitating what others have told you.

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I see how you got confused. Because you don't get it.

I's not a line or two. It's everything they say because of the DELIVERY and crappy voice acting. They could read a poem masterpiece if they wanted, it would still be cringe-worthy with this kind of delivery that makes children's cartoons look like serious documentaries.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

That's not enough. He needs proof. Do you have any documents? Those memories of yours... do you have a database where you store them so he can analyze them?

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This just made my day.

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Originally Posted by DSwizzy145

@Theif Honestly it's a shit opinion and not a good one that's for sure

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Shit or not. It's still an opinion. It's not the end of the world. The internet will survive.

Hope this makes you sleep easy tonight.




And Soulis seems perfectly fine by my books. Nintendo fanboy or not. He or she made for some interesting readings even though I'm much more of a Sega fanboy. But yeah, I can see how this could get to you, being a Sega site and all. It's perfectly normal.

So yeah... everything is fine. This Sega site will survive too.

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Originally Posted by Thief

This just made my day.



Shit or not. It's still an opinion. It's not the end of the world. The internet will survive.

Hope this makes you sleep easy tonight.




And Soulis seems perfectly fine by my books. Nintendo fanboy or not. He or she made for some interesting readings even though I'm much more of a Sega fanboy. But yeah, I can see how this could get to you, being a Sega site and all. It's perfectly normal.

So yeah... everything is fine. This Sega site will survive too.

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Nah it won't, not until you leave and THEN will i be able to sleep safely and quiet at night ;-)

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Originally Posted by DSwizzy145

Nah it won't, not until you leave and THEN will i be able to sleep safely and quiet at night ;-)

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Oh, but... I cannot comply with this... for you see, I'm too hardcore of a Sega of old nerd too. :( Sorry... but I hear there have been some great advancements in sleeping pills. If not, there's always good ol' fashioned booze.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Oh, but... I cannot comply with this... for you see, I'm too hardcore of a Sega of old nerd too. :( Sorry... but I hear there have been some great advancements in sleeping pills. If not, there's always good ol' fashioned booze.

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Yeah i'd might've went a bit overboard with that, i guess i'll take your advice instead just to keep it fair :)

^ Oh believe me. I'm there right now.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I see how you got confused. Because you don't get it.

I's not a line or two. It's everything they say because of the DELIVERY and crappy voice acting. They could read a poem masterpiece if they wanted, it would still be cringe-worthy with this kind of delivery that makes children's cartoons look like serious documentaries.

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It's as bad as the reading Dave does on Gamesack. I'd never watch a movie again, if the line delivery was as bad as Sonic Adventure.

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He is obnoxious and bratty for me. I don't care that much if you don't agree and i don't have to "prove" it to you. It's my opinion

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That's fine. But Sonic was always meant to be cool and hip and always meant to have a attitude ; Christ he was Snowboarding in Sonic III, had a rap soundtack for Sonic CD . Sonic was always meant to be anti Mario who's mustache and dungarees dided out in the early 80's

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And if Nintendo didn't do voice acting because it was more expensive, good. Better they waste their effort and resources on gameplay, graphics and music instead

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Music? . What Nintendo In-House N64 title could better the likes of this music ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVx...jARPx9Q0MksLhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQ_EB5sTSM&index=3&list=PL1C2C982BB04E896 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDL9AgKe6Dk&list=PLD84730806D9EC621&index= 17

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I read about that a long time ago in some gaming magazine(s). Same with the part about Saturn having the tendancy to draw polygons that weren't seen

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It was in EDGE and what I posted , but in that same feature the team said it had more power and of course with the VDP II that really helped on the polygon front since it could draw planes that were Infinty

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Then there's the problem of voice actors of famous and well done characters getting changed. ie. I can't believe they changed the voice of Solid Snake with that actor.

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? The voice acting of MGS V is still ace and well done . MGS wouldn have had far less impact it was all text. The script and top voice acting really helped bring the characters to life.

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This is also the main reason I wish Sonic Jam version of Sonic Adventure on Saturn got done instead of the Dreamcast version and it's drastic style change

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The same team made SA. Sonic would have style change for the Saturn main adventure no doubt . Looking over for most of Sonic Adv gamplay you only see the back of Sonic anway, so who cares if his eyes are green ?

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Mario 64 is a lot of fun, much more so than Sonic Adventure. The control isn't great though and the N64 version is gimped by the lack of decent camera control. Mario's voice work is a bad racist stereotype, but again, that what people seem to love

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Mario 64 was and still is amazing . It was a game that only NCL could make at the time. I don't agree with you over the camera as Mario 64 still features one of the best 3D camera systems there is . That said I like Sonic Adv more (for all it's faults) It the most perfect Sonic game for me and I love the actions stages that are so cool and so Sonic (windy Valley and Highway) . Also I think people really need to understand what Racist is and means because no way is Mario voice over racist at all. This same silly bullshit made sure one of the best games ever made Kung Fu Choas was all but banned inthe USA.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQ_EB5sTSM&index=3&list=PL1C2C982BB04E896 7

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDL9...EC621&index=17

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Music? . What Nintendo In-House N64 title could better the likes of this music ?

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Music can't be factually better. It's just a matter of taste. Sound quality may be better or worse. But composition and instrumentation isn't. These examples you provide sound great and all. But that doesn't mean i prefer them over some N64 soundtracks like Goemon's Adventure. Yes it uses MIDI. But it's good quality midi, it sounds crystal clear and the compositions are ace. Same with Body Harvest.

My favorite soundtrack (composition wise) of that generation is still Majora's Mask though. These are the tunes i usually hum in my head, there are very few orchestral scores that do this for me. And even on the Playstation, my favorite soundtracks are still midi (or at least not orchestral). I didn't start to like orchestral soundtracks until much later. Like in Shadow of Colossus, Mario Galaxy and Okami. Otherwise i don't like them much. I prefer my video game music to be "video-game-ish" and catchy.

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Music can't be factually better. It's just a matter of taste. Sound quality may be better or worse. But composition and instrumentation isn't. These examples you provide sound great and all. But that doesn't mean i prefer them over some N64 soundtracks like Goemon's Adventure. Yes it uses MIDI. But it's good quality midi, it sounds crystal clear and the compositions are ace

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Music like games and even graphics can and are subjective. The lack of a decent sound chip and CD-Rom drive really hurt the N64 . Like I say you may want to focus on SOTN rubbish English dub, but for music which sounds better ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FsFiBXOVK0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CLD2xL8z3o&index=77&list=PL9EC108E9239246 0D

Thinks a total non contest myself

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And even on the Playstation, my favorite soundtracks are still midi (or at least not orchestral).

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Most of mine too. Star Fox 64 have a midi sound score than sounds better than Zwei or the likes of Souky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9W-uR_Ej8I&list=PLD84730806D9EC621&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NANXrQ0l4Ig&list=PLD84730806D9EC621&index= 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msm83lFdnMA&index=18&list=FLG24L5-tG3GNwPyx1Xu4p-g



In fact Souky sounds better than almost any N64 game I own (Golden Eye 64 is close though ) and it's just shooter

I'm not debating sound quality here. Just music in general. N64 didn't have as good sound quality, sure. But if i had to choose my favorite soundtracks between PS1 and N64 (i didn't have a Saturn), there would be more N64 titles in my top 10 list.

Also SOTN has one of the best soundtracks ever made (composition wise), including modern games that run on systems with better sound capabilities. It's known for it's composition, not for it's sound quality. And there is no reason to compare it with one of the least popular Castlevania games ever, we all know which one is better.

And while we're on the subject here's a Interview with Treasure who say the N64 was even harder to program for than the N64 but like the top corp they are. Don't use it as an excuse or to bash any system

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5682/...34c94572_b.jpg

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I'm not debating sound quality here. Just music in general

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Its not just quality. Its the fact that every time you used any of the N64 64 sound channels it took a CPU Hit add in Cart limits and it really held back N64 sound in a lot of games .

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It's known for it's composition, not for it's sound quality. And there is no reason to compare it with one of the least popular Castlevania games ever, we all know which one is better.

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Of couse there is with out the N64 lack of Sound hardware and rom limits Castlevania on the N64 could have sounded just has good as the PS or Sat version and maybe even had a direct N64 port too

Hmm, it's interesting how this developer claims that cartridges are more convenient for fighting (or even action) games. This agrees with what we were discussing earlier. That those Capcom fighting games would be no problem for the N64 and they would probably be arcade perfect (no animation frames would need to be cut).

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Of couse there is with out the N64 lack of Sound hardware and rom limits Castlevania on the N64 could have sounded just has good as the PS or Sat version and maybe even had a direct N64 port too

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Or, it could sound like Goemon's Adventure and it would be close to that quality anyway, without changing the hardware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AGLIzzkRyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qca21C_gjSc

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Hmm, it's interesting how this developer claims that cartridges are more convenient for fighting (or even action) games.

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Of course. One of the main issues with the Vs fighters was loading screens, more so for SNK Fighters and the loading breaks for Die Hard Arcade were a pain in the ass . Now if the Saturn was Cart machine only it would have been a 2D monster

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That those Capcom fighting games would be no problem for the N64 and they would probably be arcade perfect (no animation frames would need to be cut)

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LOL I think you find frame were cut from Killer Instinct Gold for starters . Mortal Kombat Trilogy was better on the PS, Mortal Kombat 4 was 'mono' only .

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

LOL I think you find frame were cut from Killer Instinct Gold for starters . Mortal Kombat Trilogy was better on the PS, Mortal Kombat 4 was 'mono' only .

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And i think i'm talking about Capcom fighters. Most of these would be able to fit on the carts.

Killer Instinct used a hard drive on the Arcades. That's a different beast. And MK Trilogy would have been better if it was released later on a 32MB cart. The only thing that hold these ports back, was the tiny space the first generation carts had. Not the N64 hardware itself.

By the way, look at this game and tell me if the N64 couldn't easily do lots of animation frames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34C1mZ5WctY

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And i think i'm talking about Capcom fighters. Most of these would be able to fit on the carts

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Lol. KI is a Arcade port and its missing frames . That's the trouble with Carts, they had limits too . I think you'll find that X-Men Vs Street Fighter was a Arcade perfect on the Saturn btw and I can't think of any Saturn or PS VS or action game that was in mono. There's a reason why Capcom didn't go near the N64

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By the way, look at this game and tell me if the N64

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A game built up for the N64 lol . I'll give you GH Loads more action , tons of charcaters and frames also the Saturn Pin sharp display

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEcqhGuUPd4

Lol. KI Arcade was stored in a hard drive (files were 130MB in total). Lol. KI2 was 440 MBs. Lol. SF games were only a couple of dozen MBs, even on the arcades. Lol.

Lol. All 2D Capcom SF games could fit in a N64 cart (16-32 MB). Lol. With no cuts. Lol.

Lol. Nobody said the N64 is better than the Saturn in 2D. Lol. All i said was that those SF games would be arcade perfect. Lol.

Lol. Assuming Capcom actually wanted to port these games on the console. Lol.

Lol. Am i doing this right? Lol?


Edit: Here's how big 2D SF games were on the arcades:

Street Fighter 2 - 7.5 MB
Super Street Fighter 2 - 19 MB
Street Fighter Alpha - 14.5 MB
Street Fighter Alpha 2 - 27 MB
Street Fighter Alpha 3 - 45 MB
Street Fighter the Movie - 37 MB
Street Fighter 3 - 53 MB (was a CD ROM even)

And that's without counting any compression at all. Compressed, all these games are about half those sizes. So even uncompressed, with no cuts at all, all these games would be able to fit into N64 carts. Two of them would need a 64MB cart (only 3 games used this size) but all the others could fit into 40MB carts or smaller. But don't forget that the N64 could use compression in those carts and uncompress on the fly (because speed), so i'd say that those 64MB carts would probably not be needed.

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Lol. KI Arcade was stored in a hard drive (files were 130MB in total). Lol. KI2 was 440 MBs. Lol

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Remind me again the storage space of CD-ROM ? .

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Lol. All 2D Capcom SF games could fit in a N64 cart

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I think you'll find all of Capcom SF games were already arcade perfect on the Saturn anyway, so how's that for lol. If indeed Ram/ROM was no issues. Maybe you'll care to explain why Capcom didn't go near the N64, same of SNK, why MK III not as good as the PS version, why MK 4 was only in Mono:same goes for Wipeout and F-Zero (may I lol for a moment) and why Castlevania N64 was so rubbish compared to the Saturn and PS for sound

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Lol. Nobody said the N64 is better than the Saturn in 2D

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Now that really would be a lol moment . Quite clear when it came to 2D, Vs Fighters both 3d and 2D and music the PS and Saturn were far better systems . Mono music what an utter step backwards and a complete lol moment

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Originally Posted by Soulis

And i think i'm talking about Capcom fighters. Most of these would be able to fit on the carts.

Killer Instinct used a hard drive on the Arcades. That's a different beast. And MK Trilogy would have been better if it was released later on a 32MB cart. The only thing that hold these ports back, was the tiny space the first generation carts had. Not the N64 hardware itself.

By the way, look at this game and tell me if the N64 couldn't easily do lots of animation frames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34C1mZ5WctY

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There's soo much to weed through. Bring me up to date on this. Was there an issue of whether the n64 could do 2D animation? If so, what were the reasons given?

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If so, what were the reasons given

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None more than the cost of carts that you have to buy from NCl before you sold a single cart . Which some N64 developers said was 30 dollars per cart and unlike CD-ROM the more you printed didn't make any difference to the cost of manufacture. I think for most 3rd parties that did 2D stuff that was the real issue.

If ones wants lush pin sharp 2D visuals with tons of animation . The Saturn was king

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7001B3vBTY

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Remind me again the storage space of CD-ROM ? .

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I thought we were talking about the N64?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I think you'll find all of Capcom SF games were already arcade perfect on the Saturn anyway, so how's that for lol.

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Yeah? So? I thought we were talking about the N64? You are the one who claims it can't handle those games? I never said anything about the Saturn?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Maybe you'll care to explain why Capcom didn't go near the N64

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Maybe because they didn't like it? They didn't think it worth the effort? They didn't want to increase their costs with carts?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Quite clear when it came to 2D, Vs Fighters both 3d and 2D and music the PS and Saturn were far better systems

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And you are telling this to me because.....

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Mono music what an utter step backwards and a complete lol moment

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How many N64 games had mono music? 3? 4? 8?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

If ones wants lush pin sharp 2D visuals with tons of animation . The Saturn was king

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You don't say.

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I thought we were talking about the N64

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And I thought this thread was Saturn Vs N64 ?. The lack of CD-Rom Drive really held back the N64 imo.

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Yeah? So? I thought we were talking about the N64

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So what happened to lol ? . Simple facts were most of the SF games on the Saturn were Arcade perfect.

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Maybe because they didn't like it?

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Capcom made SF II for the 3DO for crying out loud . Carts put off Capcom porting SF to the N64 just not worth the money.

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And you are telling this to me because

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I'm telling you because it's facts and a strong point of the Saturn . If this was about open world 3D games well that's a strong card for the N64.

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How many N64 games had mono music

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Doesn't matter if its one . Its a step backwards from the Snes , never mind Saturn/PS. It shows how Carts we holding back N64 developers, even NCL

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You don't say

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Yeah ace isn't it. Lets have some more Saturn 2D and more amazing music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUQ3hTkY-F0

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Lol. Nobody said the N64 is better than the Saturn in 2D

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Now that really would be a lol moment .

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chilly did. It was based on theoretical potential calculated from tech specs, but that's how the capabilities of this generation's consoles tend to judged on here now.

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Maybe because they didn't like it?

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Capcom made SF II for the 3DO for crying out loud . Carts put off Capcom porting SF to the N64 just not worth the money.

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Capcom published massively larger ports for N64, like RE2 and Megaman Legends. Cart size wouldn't have been the deterrent. More likely it was the user base Nintendo went after with its big 3D push. CD games were less of an upfront investment and easier to do smaller print runs with decent turn around time. And the Saturn and PSX already created their markets for 2D games by the time Bintendi finally showed up with their 3D machine.

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Capcom published massively larger ports for N64, like RE2 and Megaman Legends

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For 2D games even in Japan the market was niche and so CD-Rom's were far more viable , which is no doubt why no of the the shooter corps enever went near Nintnedo and the N64 either . Only at the end of the N64 did cart costs come down. But by then CD-Rom drives did too and so it was a total cock by NCL to go the Cart route and a backwards step

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chilly did. It was based on theoretical potential calculated from tech specs

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Chilly the same person that tried to make out Saturn development kits weren't in the hand of Western developers in early 94 ? and so on :p . . Lets' s not go on theoretical or even youtube tech demos and mods . I much rather go by the games on the systems at the time . On that score the Saturn had the edge on the N64, for 3D games and more so open world and Platform games I don't think anything could touch the N64 myself .

Like I always said all systems have their plus and minus points

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Lets' s not go on theoretical or even youtube tech demos and mods . I much rather go by the games on the systems at the time .

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What about the Shenmue Saturn Demo? I can't count how many times this was brought up, in an attempt to prove the superiority of Saturn in 3D graphics.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

On that score the Saturn had the edge on the N64, for 3D games and more so open world and Platform games I don't think anything could touch the N64 myself . Like I always said all systems have their plus and minus points

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Well, i agree. The superiority of Saturn in 2D games was never questioned, at least by me. I only suggested that the 2D SF games could be ported on the N64, without problems. The system had the power, the RAM (and according Factor 5, the RAM wasn't a problem on the N64 anyway since it could stream data from the cart almost as fast) and big enough carts in the middle of it's lifespan.

I didn't say it's better than the Saturn in 2D games. I said that it could do the SF games if Capcom cared for the system.

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What about the Shenmue Saturn Demo?

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I never bring that up, or linked the video I think you'll find . I just say that's given its AM#2 I've not doubt what they showed was what the actual game would have looked like. I think these actual games show off some decent 3D graphics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foln_F9ggk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmyIlVnlnH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igk1kCXDpcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkVdJXolW_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPRrHO-7JHA

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I only suggested that the 2D SF games could be ported on the N64, without problems

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So no more LOL then ? .

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if Capcom cared for the system

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Could say that about Saturn software and if developers cared for the system . Simple fact was the high cost of each cart put Capcom off . Capcom had their fingers burnt with over a million unsold SF II Mega Drive carts and weren't about to make the same mistake again.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I see how you got confused. Because you don't get it.

I's not a line or two. It's everything they say because of the DELIVERY and crappy voice acting. They could read a poem masterpiece if they wanted, it would still be cringe-worthy with this kind of delivery that makes children's cartoons look like serious documentaries.

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So basically you can't point to examples.

First it was what Sonic was saying because it changed his personality. Now it's the delivery. Can you point to some examples of Sonic delivering lines poorly? I know Big and Tails had some bad lines, but the rest of the cast seemed fine. It's about what you'd expect from late 90's voice acting in a game aimed at children. Again if you want bad voice acting look at examples like Chaos Wars or the 32-bit Megaman games. That's bad voice acting. Sonic Adventure by comparison is an award winning performance.

And again, to bring us all the way back to the original argument here, regardless of the voice acting quality it is something the N64 would struggle with due to cartridge size. Even the few games that do it the quality is low and muffled, or there's not that many voiced lines to begin with, or both.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Lol. All 2D Capcom SF games could fit in a N64 cart (16-32 MB). Lol. With no cuts. Lol.

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Those sizes weren't being used at the time those ports were being done though. We're talking 95-97 here.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Lol. Nobody said the N64 is better than the Saturn in 2D. Lol. All i said was that those SF games would be arcade perfect. Lol.

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Street Fighter 2 could have fit on a Genesis or SNES cart. Those ports were far from perfect.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Edit: here's how big 2D SF games were on the arcades:

Street Fighter 2 - 7.5 MB This wasn't the Street Fighter 2 being ported to the Saturn and PS1 until many years later as a compilation.
Super Street Fighter 2 - 19 MB This was the one ported, and it was a compilation of both versions with bonus material
Street Fighter Alpha - 14.5 MB Again, the Saturn and PS1 versions added bonuses here. We had better voice samples and music quality than even the Arcade
Street Fighter Alpha 2 - 27 MB Again, the Saturn and PS1 versions have bonuses with art galleries, better music, additional modes, etc.
Street Fighter Alpha 3 - 45 MB This was released in 98/99 for the PS1 and Saturn. Yeah RE2 came out on the N64 in late 1999, but do you honestly think Capcom would use a cart that big for a 2D Fighter?
Street Fighter the Movie - 37 MB
Street Fighter 3 - 53 MB (was a CD ROM even) Again, when this came out most N64 games weren't even at 32MB in size.

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And again, you're not taking into account all the extra features that were added to those games on the PS1 and Saturn as well as the Dreamcast. You're not taking into account the superior music and sound quality. You're also completely ignoring when these games came out and were being released on the Saturn and PS1. You're also ignoring the fact that few N64 games used those large cart sizes due to how expensive it was. Don't believe me on how expensive they were? Look at the price of Neo Geo AES games. King of Fighters 97 is 31MB in size. When it released it was well over $200 in price. Would you pay that much for an N64 port of Street Fighter Alpha 2?

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Originally Posted by Soulis

And that's without counting any compression at all. Compressed, all these games are about half those sizes. So even uncompressed, with no cuts at all, all these games would be able to fit into N64 carts. Two of them would need a 64MB cart (only 3 games used this size) but all the others could fit into 40MB carts or smaller. But don't forget that the N64 could use compression in those carts and uncompress on the fly (because speed), so i'd say that those 64MB carts would probably not be needed.

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Again, you're ignoring that even the number of 32MB games is small by comparison. Few games used ROMs that big because of the cost. When larger games were coming out it was again towards the later end of the systems life.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

There's soo much to weed through. Bring me up to date on this. Was there an issue of whether the n64 could do 2D animation? If so, what were the reasons given?

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No, it was simply being pointed out that cartridge size would be an issue on the N64. Especially considering those larger Cart sizes weren't being used until late in the Systems life, well after those 2D arcade ports were out on the Saturn and PS1.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

What about the Shenmue Saturn Demo? I can't count how many times this was brought up, in an attempt to prove the superiority of Saturn in 3D graphics.

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Well, it does give us an idea on what we could have seen had the system still been pushed late in life like the N64 and PS1 were.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Well, i agree. The superiority of Saturn in 2D games was never questioned, at least by me. I only suggested that the 2D SF games could be ported on the N64, without problems. The system had the power, the RAM (and according Factor 5, the RAM wasn't a problem on the N64 anyway since it could stream data from the cart almost as fast) and big enough carts in the middle of it's lifespan.

I didn't say it's better than the Saturn in 2D games. I said that it could do the SF games if Capcom cared for the system.

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And what we are trying to explain to you is that when those games were coming out in Arcades and being ported to the Saturn and PS1, the N64 was still using 8-16MB cartridges. 32MB and 64MB carts came later and were still only used for important titles and were expensive. They would have either had to do some crazy compression, or make some cuts.

I remember Zelda OOT, the first 32MB cart i think, and it was about the same price as Mortal Kombat 4 on the PS1. There were still games on 8 and 12MB carts that were more expensive... Same with any other Nintendo or RARE title. They were always cheap compared to 3rd party titles, no matter the size. The size of the cart didn't matter much, what mattered the most was either the games were 3rd party or not. And 3rd party games were expensive despite the size. 8, 12, 16, 32, didn't matter. They were all about the same price and sometimes smaller carts would be the more expensive too.

Also there were around 40 N64 titles (out of the 300 released in US and Europe) that were 32MB, the majority being either 12 or 16 MB. So it wasn't only the "important titles". Plus, if Capcom was a developer for the N64, i don't see how a SF wouldn't be an important title anyway.

Oh and i don't ignore anything about the Saturn ports. I know they may have extras. Still, the N64 was able to do an Arcade Perfect port. I didn't say anything about extras nor that it's version would be better than the Saturn. The only problem would be that it may had to be released later, when 32MB carts were available. Like how RE2 was released so late, to take advantage of the 64MB cart.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

I remember Zelda OOT, the first 32MB cart i think, and it was about the same price as Mortal Kombat 4 on the PS1.

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I can't find evidence to support this. I did however find this:

http://cdn.retrowaste.com/wp-content...o-64-games.jpg

So about $60. I do wonder though if Nintendo sold that at a loss knowing they'd probably make up the money in the amount it would sell.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

There were still games on 8 and 12MB carts that were more expensive... Same with any other Nintendo or RARE title. They were always cheap compared to 3rd party titles, no matter the size. The size of the cart didn't matter much, what mattered the most was either the games were 3rd party or not. And 3rd party games were expensive despite the size. 8, 12, 16, 32, didn't matter. They were all about the same price and sometimes smaller carts would be the more expensive too.

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Again from the ad posted above, that doesn't look to be the case. Nintendo's first party 32MB and third party 32MB games were more expensive.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Also there were around 40 N64 titles (out of the 300 released in US and Europe) that were 32MB, the majority being either 12 or 16 MB. So it wasn't only the "important titles". Plus, if Capcom was a developer for the N64, i don't see how a SF wouldn't be an important title anyway.

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Look at the games that were 32MB. They are all later titles that were either big exclusives (Zelda, Banjo Tooie, Turok 2, etc.) or ports from other CD based systems (Megaman 64, Duke Nukem, Rayman 2, etc.). I highly doubt Capcom would use a 32MB cart for a port of Street Fighter Alpha 2 in 1996, let alone a 64MB cart for Alpha 3 in 1998.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Oh and i don't ignore anything about the Saturn ports. I know they may have extras. Still, the N64 was able to do an Arcade Perfect port. I didn't say anything about extras nor that it's version would be better than the Saturn. The only problem would be that it may had to be released later, when 32MB carts were available. Like how RE2 was released so late, to take advantage of the 64MB cart.

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Here's the thing though, the Saturn versions are Arcade perfect and have bonuses like additional fighters. Compare Street Fighter Alpha 3's character select screen to that of the Saturn version:

Arcade:
http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/7/7/1/gfs_62785_2_1.jpg

Saturn:
http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/2/e/6/gfs_15065_2_4.jpg

Do you honestly think people would by a late N64 port on an expensive large cart with fewer characters and content?