The Genesis really was better than the Super Nintendo.

I LOVE (repeat LOVE) both systems. However, I prefer the SNES more. The exclusive titles alone, plus I prefer the controller and the music processor better. Back in the day I got a Genesis in 1991 on the release of Sonic. I loved it, I loved Toe Jam & Earl, as well as the EA Sports games on there. Got a Super Nintendo over a year later, and largely shelved the Genesis. Sure we played Sonic 2 then 3, but far more replay value on Mario World, Mario Kart, Zelda, Super Metroid, Punchout, and all the Konami games were better on the SNES. That's just me, but SNES was a better, to me.

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Originally Posted by Greg2600

plus I prefer the controller

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Blasphemy!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...22590620_n.jpg

@Guntz
They only bitch about the lack of color because of the Nintendo propaganda/magazine articles back in the day told them so and due to emulators and retarded comparisons like the Lion King one; i highly doubt that anyone could really tell a diference when playing via RF or Composite in the early 90s.
I sure can't remember of anyone complaining about this stuff when i was a kid.

And yes, they do crap their pants when they see something like Alien Soldier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvA5xJWbo4&noredirect=1

But the game is too hard, too fast, too frenetic for them , unlike their glorious RPGs, which requires no skill whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Fun Fact: my avatar for the past 7.5 years (up until yesterday), has been a pic from Phantasy Star. ;)

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Man, it drives me nuts when established members change their avatars after having the same one forever. Now I have to train myself to recognize your new one when I'm scrolling through threads. XD

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

Man, it drives me nuts when established members change their avatars after having the same one forever. Now I have to train myself to recognize your new one when I'm scrolling through threads. XD

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yeah i feel the same way
your avatar is you its part of your identity on a forum

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Originally Posted by Bottino

And yes, they do crap their pants when they see something like Alien Soldier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvA5xJWbo4&noredirect=1

But the game is too hard, too fast, too frenetic for them , unlike their glorious RPGs, which requires no skill whatsoever.

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Man, if nothing else gave away his bias, that video sure as hell did.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

And yes, they do crap their pants when they see something like Alien Soldier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvA5xJWbo4&noredirect=1

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God, he can't even compliment the game's graphics without the qualifier "for a Genesis game". Come on, that's one of the best-looking games of the generation, period. If this thing were on the SNES with 3 extra colors it would be the second coming.

And of course the mighty SNES even manages to be responsible for Treasure's ability to push the Genesis. It couldn't possible be that they were just brilliantly skilled game developers regardless of the platform. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Assman

God, he can't even compliment the game's graphics without the qualifier "for a Genesis game". Come on, that's one of the best-looking games of the generation, period. If this thing were on the SNES with 3 extra colors it would be the second coming.

And of course the mighty SNES even manages to be responsible for Treasure's ability to push the Genesis. It couldn't possible be that they were just brilliantly skilled game developers regardless of the platform. :roll:

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Didn't you know? Every time that you hear a bell ring, a SNES circle-jerker gives the Genesis a left-handed compliment?

Sorry, I swear I don't mean to encourage the VS. thing, but, I just couldn't help myself on that one, haha. Those "16-bit gems" videos seem like a strained effort when it's anything about a Genesis game; TurboGrafx16 is an unknown quantity there too...

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Originally Posted by Bottino

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...22590620_n.jpg

@Guntz
They only bitch about the lack of color because of the Nintendo propaganda/magazine articles back in the day told them so and due to emulators and retarded comparisons like the Lion King one; i highly doubt that anyone could really tell a diference when playing via RF or Composite in the early 90s.
I sure can't remember of anyone complaining about this stuff when i was a kid.

And yes, they do crap their pants when they see something like Alien Soldier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvA5xJWbo4&noredirect=1

But the game is too hard, too fast, too frenetic for them , unlike their glorious RPGs, which requires no skill whatsoever.

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Early 90's, no, but pretty much Mortal Kombat, and going forward, yes, for my childhood. "The Super Nintendo has better graphics, and sound!", I heard this all the time, once the stigma of owning a SNES started to die off (yes, there used to be a stigma from owning a SNES, as it was seen as the kiddie console vs the Genesis. I remember this well. Metroid Prime, and StarFox helped turn the tide, and MKII was the final nail in that coffin.). Most were all using RF at the time as well.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

As for eBay:


Super Mario World sold on eBayfor $0.99 + $4 shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-...item2335b58d6f

Super Mario World sold on eBay for $1 + $6 shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-...item2a3574fcb2

Super Mario World sold on eBay for $3.05 + $4 shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SFC-SUPER-MA...item35d04dca65

Super Mario World sold on eBay for $1.25 + $6 shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mario-...item2a3574fe3d

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OT, but I love the SFC cart labels, they just look so vibrant, and full of energy. And they're all so cheap, makes me wish I could read Japanese, owning all of those RPGs would be so much cheaper that way.

I don't know if Mike Matei has ever covered Alien Soldier, but can you imagine if he did?

"MEEEHHH, THIS LOOKS ALRIGHT, ITD HAVE MOAR COLORZ ON THE SNES. DID I MENTION THE SNES IS SUPERIOR? OK, I GUESS I'LL PLAY IT NOW. WHHAAAA? WHATS HAPPENING? SWITCHING WEAPONS IS HAAAAARRRD!!!! WHYS THIS SOOOOO FAST?? THIS IS FUCKIN HAAARRD!! NYYAAA THIS ISNT SO GOOD NYAAA!!!! THIS WOULD BE BETTER ON THE SNES. I COULD USE SHOULDER BUTTONS AND IT WOULDNT BE SOOO HARD. THE MUSIC WOULD BE BETTER TOO AND IT WOULD HAVE MODE 7. HAVE I MENTIONED THE SNES IS THE BEST THING EVER. IT SOLD MORE THAN THE GENESIS TOO. SKIP THIS AND PLAY CONTRA 3. TUNE IN NEXT WEEK FOR MY BREATH OF FIRE RETROSPECTIVE!! HEY JAMES YOU NEED ME TO CARRY THOSE GROCERIES IN FOR YOU?"

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Originally Posted by Bottino

They only bitch about the lack of color because of the Nintendo propaganda/magazine articles back in the day told them so and due to emulators and retarded comparisons like the Lion King one; i highly doubt that anyone could really tell a diference when playing via RF or Composite in the early 90s.
I sure can't remember of anyone complaining about this stuff when i was a kid.

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Mmm, I definitely noticed the difference, and still do when playing composite on my CRT. And in any event that's a double-edged argument: the Genesis's superior frequency response and stronger treble is often cited as a feather in its cap, but you could just as easily say that no one would've noticed the allegedly-muffled sound of the SNES when playing through TV speakers.

(As it happens, that was true in my case -- I never noticed the suppressed high end, or never perceived it as a problem. Much of the time I still don't, though on certain games it's really hard to miss.)

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Originally Posted by goldenband

but you could just as easily say that no one would've noticed the allegedly-muffled sound of the SNES when playing through TV speakers.

(As it happens, that was true in my case -- I never noticed the suppressed high end, or never perceived it as a problem. Much of the time I still don't, though on certain games it's really hard to miss.)

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Me too.
Actually, it was common back in the days to hear people worshiping the far superior SNES' strong bass sound. "Sounds exactly like the arcade" and bs like that.

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Originally Posted by Barone

Me too.
Actually, it was common back in the days to hear people worshiping the far superior SNES' strong bass sound. "Sounds exactly like the arcade" and bs like that.

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I thought the same when I was a kid. I was so blown away to hear speech that wasn't distorted, that I didn't stop to notice how muffled it was.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

I highly doubt that anyone could really tell a diference when playing via RF or Composite in the early 90s.
I sure can't remember of anyone complaining about this stuff when i was a kid.

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I've always seen the difference in video quality, no matter what TV the console was played on, as far as I can remember. Consoles like the Genesis model 1, SNES, NES, allowed you to connect both RF and Composite simultaneously - I would always connect both and randomly switch back to RF just to see the difference in quality.

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Originally Posted by KitsuneNight

yeah i feel the same way
your avatar is you its part of your identity on a forum

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It pissses me off too. :p

That's why I typically only switch avatar pics temporarily in various forums.

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Originally Posted by Assman

God, he can't even compliment the game's graphics without the qualifier "for a Genesis game". Come on, that's one of the best-looking games of the generation, period. If this thing were on the SNES with 3 extra colors it would be the second coming.

And of course the mighty SNES even manages to be responsible for Treasure's ability to push the Genesis. It couldn't possible be that they were just brilliantly skilled game developers regardless of the platform. :roll:

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But the SNES has a higher colour palette than the Megadrive, so therefore a game can look really good, even for a Sega game.

Roo from 16-bit gems is one of the only reviewers on youtube who's review style isn't severe mental illness, at least give him that.

There is no right answer really, but my person fave looking back is the MD hands down. Reason being that arcade games are my most fav style of game growing up: hard difficulty, learning enemy AI/patterns and can be completed in under an hour. The MD library feels very arcade focused compared to the Snes. On the other side if you like RPGs then the MD is terrible and the Snes would suite more. Personally I don't get on with RPGs for the most part. I need to be playing something dexterous, difficult and something punishing to learn.

My electrical engineering background makes me say that the Genesis is the better system. Not because of graphics, sound, or other specs which you can throw around all night long. No, I claim the Genesis is better because, in spite of being two years older, when you compare apples to apples (that is a Genesis to an SNES without support chips) I feel the Genesis performs much better almost every single time.

It's unfair to do a comparison like Super Mario Kart is better looking than Outrun or Road Rash because Super Mario Kart requires a DSP-1 support chip to run. Fact of the matter is the SNES processor was already obsolete before the console was even released.

BLAST PROCESSING!

I don't know that I'd consider Mario Kart, or F-Zero, better looking than anything beyond top down view, to be honest. Not saying they're ugly, but not the best looking racers of their generation either.

I tend to prefer Genesis in terms of the action/arcade department and SNES for anything RPG. I would even say SNES had more enjoyable RPGs than PS1 because there was less glitz and glamour like FMVs, bombast cut scenes, load times, etc. to hinder the experience. Genesis was fit to handle more action-intensive titles. Most action stuff on SNES usually fails to hit me the same way. Whether or not the colors or sound was done well with what either of the two had depended on the developer, as I found those two categories more subjective. I certainly like the orchestrated stuff on SNES more. It's something that the Genesis never really could pull off. The electronic or bass-centered stuff on Genesis is where its strength lied. Sometimes the lack of colors gave Genesis a richer look, but sometimes the pastel palette of SNES worked like a charm which can be seen in games like Wonder Project J.

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Originally Posted by db Electronics

My electrical engineering background makes me say that the Genesis is the better system. Not because of graphics, sound, or other specs which you can throw around all night long. No, I claim the Genesis is better because, in spite of being two years older, when you compare apples to apples (that is a Genesis to an SNES without support chips) I feel the Genesis performs much better almost every single time.

It's unfair to do a comparison like Super Mario Kart is better looking than Outrun or Road Rash because Super Mario Kart requires a DSP-1 support chip to run. Fact of the matter is the SNES processor was already obsolete before the console was even released.

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So what percentage of the Super NES library uses support chips in one form or another? I know all the usual suspects, Mario Kart, Pilotwings, Yoshi etc, but what about everything else?

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Originally Posted by OverDrone

So what percentage of the Super NES library uses support chips in one form or another? I know all the usual suspects, Mario Kart, Pilotwings, Yoshi etc, but what about everything else?

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There are quite a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ancement_chips

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Originally Posted by db Electronics

There are quite a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ancement_chips

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There are, but taking into account the entire library of SNES games, this list is pretty short.

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Originally Posted by retro nick

There are, but taking into account the entire library of SNES games, this list is pretty short.

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To the best of my knowledge, Sega only cheated with support chips once on Virtua Racing...

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Originally Posted by db Electronics

To the best of my knowledge, Sega only cheated with support chips once on Virtua Racing...

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which is impressive when you look at games like Vertorman, Comix Zone, Contra, Castlevania, and Gunstar Heroes to name a few. I didn't have a SNES when I was growing up, but when I went to friend's houses and played it, it seemed slower in action then my Genesis, but I did have sleep overs at his house to play the RPG's :)

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Originally Posted by db Electronics

To the best of my knowledge, Sega only cheated with support chips once on Virtua Racing...

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Not sure why people feel the need to keep score on this. A well designed bus, that is easily expandable isn't a flaw. I think that expansion chips in SNES carts are just as cool as the expansion cards for PC-Engine CD. If you've got the bus space...use it.

There is however, a theory that Nintendo did this, along with an intentionally gimped CPU, to try and pass the cost on to the 3rd parties. If that's true, that's a really crappy way to do things.

It's not a bad thing to use expansions.

What is bad is when you include those games in comparisons. A support chip could be anything. Such a comparison has no value.

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Originally Posted by retro nick

Not sure why people feel the need to keep score on this. A well designed bus, that is easily expandable isn't a flaw. I think that expansion chips in SNES carts are just as cool as the expansion cards for PC-Engine CD. If you've got the bus space...use it.

There is however, a theory that Nintendo did this, along with an intentionally gimped CPU, to try and pass the cost on to the 3rd parties. If that's true, that's a really crappy way to do things.

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If you're talking about CD-ROM System Cards, they just larger carts, no different than larger SNES carts, only without the ability to access anything any time.

SNES cart add-ons replace the cpu or add video effects.

Putting a PS4 inside a SNES cart is not the same thing as a 48meg HuCard.

Ha, Ballz 3D uses an expansion chip according to that list :D The more you know.

Actually it's not surprising, really.

Was/is there any way to add colour through expansion chips on the MD cheaply, or is there a technical limitation/prohibitive cost issue there stopping that from happening?

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Originally Posted by OverDrone

Was/is there any way to add colour through expansion chips on the MD cheaply, or is there a technical limitation/prohibitive cost issue there stopping that from happening?

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There's no way to connect external CRAM to the VDP, the lines just aren't connected, only way to do it is 32X style. When they made the genesis SEGA really seemed to believe 64/512 colours were enough.

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Originally Posted by retro nick

There are, but taking into account the entire library of SNES games, this list is pretty short.

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Hmm...about 65 not including the cancelled ones. The problem is there are very notable games in this list that are always used in game comparisons without mentioning the enhancement chips. Just a few compared to the library isn't really saying anything. Do you work in politics or something?

Example:
Media: A tape has surfaced of the senator fucking a dog.

You: Well, the senator has fucked in fact about 20 dogs. It's only a small percentage compared to the 300 women he's fucked. As you can see with this ratio, it hardly ever happens. This dog is also of a fine pedigree. No medical/genetic flaws. Family lines of mother and father go back 300 years. She's also been featured in Dog Fancy.

Attachment 8809

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

If you're talking about CD-ROM System Cards, they just larger carts, no different than larger SNES carts, only without the ability to access anything any time.

SNES cart add-ons replace the cpu or add video effects.

Putting a PS4 inside a SNES cart is not the same thing as a 48meg HuCard.

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They are both temporary, after the fact, hardware upgrades, is my point. Of course there is not extra proc power, or whatever, but it does give you a truckload of system RAM, especially when talking about the arcade card. That's far from stock, but everyone will blindly give it pass.

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Originally Posted by PHANTOM2040

Do you work in politics or something?

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Nope, just not a raging fanboy who gets all butthurt over something so silly.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

It's not a bad thing to use expansions.

What is bad is when you include those games in comparisons. A support chip could be anything. Such a comparison has no value.

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A valid point. In fact, the best argument given so far as to why they shouldn't be included. But even taken on its own, butthurt fanboys will still call it "cheating", which is just plain silly.

It's not about cheating or anything, it's about public perception.

I remember talking to a friend of mine in fakebook about this same topic and this fanboy came and posted a video of Yoshi's Island saying that "there's no way the MD could do this"; i replied to him by saying that YI used a add-on chip in those carts to be able to pull those effects; he didn't believe me and i had to show him this
Obviously, this kid had no idea that his S(uperior)nes used such things for it's games.

This also reminds me of when i saw a comment on Youtube asking if Streets of Rage 2 used some sort of add-on chip because "it looks just like an Arcade game".

Now , if even with the internet people still doesn't know about this, imagine in the 90's. That's how the myth that the Mega Drive needed "failed add-on consoles" like the Sega-CD and 32X to even compete with the Super Nes was born.
Even on Sega Retro you will find that nonsense.

512 colors has something to do with Master System compatibility iirc. Makes more sense if you think about it like that.

Also, I'm sure an add-on chip to increase colors in the form of an external video encoder of some sort to replace the one in the Genesis might be possible. ...Maybe.

^ No, it is not. Only way to add more colors to an existing stock Mega Drive console is the 32X route.

HOWEVER, a hardware update would have been possible (i.e. a new Mega Drive 2) featuring 2x VDPs, doubling the colors on screen at once.

The Genesis simply needed to be developed with more onscreen colors in mind from the start. The 32X was a bad way of improving the colors.

Well, the 32x was also a lot more powerful. If they wanted to make something that was just a VDP upgrade, it could have been smaller and simpler.

One of the reasons for the 32X's creation was to give the Genesis more color.

The stock Genesis could never be saved without gamers getting pissy. People hate the 32X because it has extra cables.

8)

1st of all i specify that back then i had both, a Mega Drive (but without any of its add-ons) & a SNES & i experienced a lot of amazing moments with each but, over time, the Mega Drive (& its add-ons this time) never ceased to bring some amazing stuff & show how the whole system was great with a lot of personality & diversity while the SNES started to disappoint me & it continued increasingly...

then, for the people who don't understand why more than 20 years later there are stilll debates about all this, it's because there are still A LOT of things to be said / clarified, still a lot of games to be played / reviewed / analysed (comparison; etc...) & it's a lot of pleasures to do it! (& many truths that emerge...)

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Originally Posted by Guntz

The Genesis simply needed to be developed with more onscreen colors in mind from the start. The 32X was a bad way of improving the colors.

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it has never stopped developpers for making TONS of beautiful & colorful games on Mega Drive / Genesis like the whole Sonic serie; the three Ecco games; Ex-Ranza; Aladdin; High Seas Havoc; Tinhead; Psycho Pinball; etc... + most of Mega Drive / Genesis games run at high-resolution; with smooth scrollings; without slowdowns...

... whereas the SNES got TONS of games than run at low-resolution (= it's shit since it's visually less impressive + you lose a lot of the visual + it also affect the gameplay (mainly on platformers; shoot'em ups; some racing games like Rock n'Roll Racing or Micro Machine; etc...)); which got slowdowns; sluggish scrollings; muffled sound & even load times! really, for a system that came out two years later than the Mega Drive, the SNES is kinda weak / miserable. that doesn't stop me for loving some games on it like Super Aleste or Secret of Mana, but the overall system is meh & tons of games on it too (i find the NES way more impressive considering the time of its release...)


& i FAR prefer the way taken by Sega with the two add-ons for the Mega Drive rather than the Nintendo cartridge-chip (cheap) way... it's just two different worlds. Star Fox is still a SNES games whereas Mega-CD games add CD audio for both music & voices / dialogues; movie / anime sequences (or ARE themselves like a whole movie / anime, exp : Urusei Yatsura : My Dear Friends...); etc... the 32X could have been more often well exploited like it was with Virtua Racing Deluxe; Virtua Fighter; Stellar Assault; Space harrier or After Burner Complete, but still, there's a decent amount of great releases on it so, as an add-on, it's an overall satisfying hardware


as for "which console has most best versions?", dunno yet, but there are already at least 55 titles on my list that are better on [Mega Drive / Genesis + its add-ons] than on [SNES + its enhanced with chip-cartridge] & i already know there will be many other to add!

edit : 58 titles. & i don't count different versions of a same game when they appear on MD & / or MCD & / or 32X like Earthworm Jim; Mickeymania or Pitfall : the Mayan Adventure

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Originally Posted by Guntz

One of the reasons for the 32X's creation was to give the Genesis more color.

The stock Genesis could never be saved without gamers getting pissy. People hate the 32X because it has extra cables.

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I think people hate the 32x because of its lack of worthwhile games. ;)

A simpler device that was just for more color could have plugged right in to the a/v out port. Male plug on one side of the device itself, female on the other. No cable needed.