Street Fighter 2 - new Z80 PCM sound driver project

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True Grave

I really don't get the hate for the Genesis SF games. Both ports were pretty awesome and replicated the goodness of the arcade very well. They looked great, sounded great, played great, etc. Especially the Genesis's more "proper" resolution size over the SNES version.

---

The resolution is the same as it is in the SNES version. I think most of the "hate" lobbed at these ports stems from the fact that they're basically ports of the SNES versions (with the occasional detail added or subtracted). People are just annoyed that Capcom took the cheaper route rather than building new ports that were specifically tailored to the strengths of the Genesis. We had to settle for "more or less as good as the SNES version" ports rather than what could've potentially been a fair bit better.

Add to that the quality of the voice playback, which Stef shows could've been much better with competent programming, and yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tryphon

Still today, it's my favourite SF game, with Street Fighter Zero 3 PSX.

---

Really? That specific version of SFZ3?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assman

The resolution is the same as it is in the SNES version. I think most of the "hate" lobbed at these ports stems from the fact that they're basically ports of the SNES versions (with the occasional detail added or subtracted). People are just annoyed that Capcom took the cheaper route rather than building new ports that were specifically tailored to the strengths of the Genesis. We had to settle for "more or less as good as the SNES version" ports rather than what could've potentially been a fair bit better.

Add to that the quality of the voice playback, which Stef shows could've been much better with competent programming, and yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

---

Whoa, whoa! Ports of the SNES versions? I've never heard of that before. If there is any documentation proving this, i'd like to see it please.

Definitive proof ofcourse. Please don't be posting images and being all like, "well this clearly looks similar and that is also, blah, blah, etc".

I've seen too many posts like that from fans over the years. Not only does speculating and poking at comparison images not prove anything but, it just comes off as sad fanboy theory. However, if there's an old-school EGM or Gamepro article from back in the day that spills the beans on all this, that would be interesting to see!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True Grave

I really don't get the hate for the Genesis SF games. Both ports were pretty awesome and replicated the goodness of the arcade very well. They looked great, sounded great, played great, etc.

---

I agree that SCE looked and sounded good, but Super was a mess IMO - horrible colours on some stages and the voices were far worse than the first iteration. So it's nice to see improvements by the community to these titles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True Grave

Imagine if Probe had done the ports instead. Then we wouldn't have had ANY voice clips lol. Give Capcom some props.

---

Yes, judging from some of their other work that would have been a very bad idea. It would have been interesting to see how SEGA themselves would have handled a port of SF2, particularly the rumoured Mega CD port.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True Grave

Whoa, whoa! Ports of the SNES versions? I've never heard of that before. If there is any documentation proving this, i'd like to see it please.

Definitive proof ofcourse. Please don't be posting images and being all like, "well this clearly looks similar and that is also, blah, blah, etc".

I've seen too many posts like that from fans over the years. Not only does speculating and poking at comparison images not prove anything but, it just comes off as sad fanboy theory. However, if there's an old-school EGM or Gamepro article from back in the day that spills the beans on all this, that would be interesting to see!

---

No proof needed. The answer is as clear as the blue sky.

But if you want one answer. It's the resolution. You see, since the SNES horizontal resolution is quite a bit lower then the Arcade version, all the graphics had to be remade to look at the right aspect to match the Arcade more when the lower SNES resolution gets stretched to back then pre-Hi Def era 4:3 ratio TVs (notice when you play SNES games in emulators, the aspect ratio is almost like a square in stead of a rectangle 4:3 aspect ratio? This is because of the lower resolution not being wide enough in perfect pixel mode, unlike the hi res mode of the Genesis games. Low res in perfect pixel mode match that square aspect ratio of SNES/NES/SMS games). So yeah, all the SNES graphics were remade (not to mention shrunk of bit too), and we got the exact same graphics from the SNES version. EXACT SAME. Instead of Capcom re-doing the graphics from ground up all over again to better take advantage of the higher res Genesis mode that comes much closer to the Arcade source. That's the main proof that I know of.

The other proof might be in the music & voice overs too, but I forget this one? If the music & the voice samples are the same or very similar to the SNES style, then there's your other proof.


PS- if you want a perfect example of a hi res Genesis game not optimized for low res SNES game, then I give you the first Earthworm Jim. Because all the graphics weren't redrawn for low res + stretched to 4:3 aspect ratio. All the sprites in SNES version looked stretched and fat, thus wrong, when show in the proper 4:3 aspect ratio of TVs back then. Unless you play it in perfect pixel mode, but now your still missing quite a bit of the screen that's replaced by massive borders to the left and right. Always wondered why that was, and the days of emulation finally revealed all to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assman

Really? That specific version of SFZ3?

---

Yes, that version. I owned a PSX then, not a Saturn (not rich enough to have both) :)
And I maintain it's a great game, even if it's not the best version.

For the MD version being a port of the SNES, I think it hasn't much sense. Or else, define what a port is. If you says the game engine is the same, it's very unlikely given the differences between the 2 machines.

If you say they reused the gfx, it's much more likely, and I can't really ununderstand why : the MD shares the same resolution than the arcade version. Reducing the number of colors is not easier with the SNES version than with the arcade. The only reason to do that would be that there's not enough VRAM to handle everything, but I'd be surprised... But let's be honest, this game's gfx are pretty good for a MD, nobody would have thought at this time that SF2 would look so beautiful on a MD ! (I don't tell about SSF2, I didn't play the MD version of this one and it doesn't seem so pretty).

The music were definitely remade for the MD version, and the sound effects (except the voices) were good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True Grave

Whoa, whoa! Ports of the SNES versions? I've never heard of that before. If there is any documentation proving this, i'd like to see it please.

Definitive proof ofcourse. Please don't be posting images and being all like, "well this clearly looks similar and that is also, blah, blah, etc".

I've seen too many posts like that from fans over the years. Not only does speculating and poking at comparison images not prove anything but, it just comes off as sad fanboy theory. However, if there's an old-school EGM or Gamepro article from back in the day that spills the beans on all this, that would be interesting to see!

---

Lol at random people on internet thoughts.

It's more than clear and irrefutable than the Genesis version is a crap, straigh port from SNES, from assets and resolution to code and setup.

There is even code leftovers in the Genesis ROM:

Quote:

---

This Game Pack is not
designed for use with
your Super Nintendo
Entertainment System.
(PAL)

---

I have just done a string search in the Genesis ROM and din't find this text.

Example of glitches ?

Oh yeesh. Its another one of.... THOSE fan theory's....(sighs heavily). Should have known.

Like i haven't seen a million of these already :?

I'm pretty sure the (excellent)Genesis ports have stuff the SNES versions lack also. Like various background differences, couple of extra animations, etc. Which wouldn't have happened were they actual SNES ports. Even the cool intro of the arcade is there, with the dude being punched out!! Which is missing on both SNES versions prior to special champion edition.

Its all these extra little touches the SNES versions lack, which is why i enjoy the Genesis versions more. Had these been lazy SNES ports as you guys claim, those would not have been there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barone

Examples of AI glitches which are far more prone in the SNES ports and their derivations:
- Ken's AI badly glitches against a fighter in the crouching position which is only uses uppercuts all the time.

---

Doesn't work in high difficulty.

Quote:

---

- Chun Li's has the same problem of above but her AI pattern is even more laughable.

---

same

Quote:

---

- Zangief's AI has a glaring issue if you keep jumping (but without moving back or forth) and throwing air kicks.

---

Same, but it's also worth to note that it works in arcade too (at least when you encounter him in the first matchs)

Quote:

---

- Blanka's AI glitches when he is in the corner of the screen, especially if you keep standing and throwing high kicks on nothing. He will usually come at those kicks and get hit.

---

Same as Zangief (works also in arcade).

Quote:

---

Now, which "definitive proof" you guys have to state that the MD version wasn't just a half-assed port of the SNES game, besides your praise to Capcom's work?

---

I don't praise anyone's work. Nor do I really care about if it was a port (whatever it can mean). I just wanted to learn something about a game I like.

Please note that, up to now, I haven't been aggressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tryphon

I have just done a string search in the Genesis ROM and din't find this text.

---

Then look better:

Attachment 9776

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr apocalipsis

Then look better:

Attachment 9776

---

I'm sorry but attachments don't work for me (I got "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator").

If you posted a screenshot of the game, it just proves that the gfx are indeed from the SNES game, which is likely since they share the same resolution (it would have been no sense from Capcom to redraw the gfx from the arcade if they opted for this resolution for any reason), not that the actual game engine a mere translation (it can't anyway).

But then again, I'd like to know what you call a 'port' exactly ? If it is a gfx translation, then okay, it's likely a port. Rather a nice one IMO, even if yes, using 320x224 resolution would have been better (and likely easier).

http://i.imgur.com/1EYHTjr.png

Also, not interested in this nonsense.
Game is a port, and everyone knows that.

Then there is the people who thinks that it is a proof of Megadrive limits, and few others that are aware that it's just a crappy port.

Instead of saying nonsenses, you could have checked that we were speaking about SF2SCE, not SSF2...

Whoa. As usual, this Barone fella continues to conduct himself with all the social grace of a child raised in the wilderness.

Enough said on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tryphon

Instead of saying nonsenses, you could have checked that we were speaking about SF2SCE, not SSF2...

---

Yes. This is about Special Champion Edition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr apocalipsis

Also, not interested in this nonsense.
Game is a port, and everyone knows that.

Then there is the people who thinks that it is a proof of Megadrive limits, and few others that are aware that it's just a crappy port.

---

That doesn't prove anything since this is about Special Champion Edition. Not SSFII. Also even if thats true about SSFII, it doesn't mean its true for SCE. Both entries were released at different times, and SCE has enough differences/improvements from both prior SNES games to indicate that its a unique port.

You say the Genesis SCE was a "crappy port". You are incorrect. It was an excellent and very faithful entry, with no 'compromises' like we got with the Probe MK ports. It also proved the SNES naysayers wrong about the Genesis not being able to handle a game like SFII. The voices are really the only issue and even then, those aren't that bad either.

You guys should be grateful we got such excellent ports from Capcom.