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Of course, I did not explain properly. What I was trying to say, it's that the audio cut is there in Fatal Fury 2 for the reason you just explained, so I'm personally used to it, and it's not the end of the world if a few samples misses on SF2.
Still hoping Stef find the bug. Then we can raise awareness on how much Crapcom sucked with Genesis development.
The sad thing is ... if people thought they had seen the worst with SF2 SCE. They had no idea what was to come with SSF2.
Actually it seems to be a bit random, some SFX seems to miss almost time but not always. For instance you only hear "round ... fight !" (number missing) on some stage (as Zangief one) but not on some others. I though i had found the problem (low priority command erasing high priority one in very short period) but unfortunately i modified the driver and it did not helped. It's really difficult to debug the Z80 (actually almost impossible in my case as you can't trace loop with buffering as i'm using...) and anyway no emulator can trace Z80 while doing other events at same time (running 68000 and doing vint). So now i'm on the way to write a different driver, allowing playback up to 12 Khz and doing it a bit differently so it may fix the issue. I measured the free rom space, we have about 154 KB extra free space (if these are really empty space :p), the base sample take about 274 KB at 4770 Hz so with 428 KB we can go up to 7400 Hz or close to 15 Khz in 4bit. Of course i can't use all that free space because some parts are fragmented in small pieces and i will probably pad the sample a bit. At least i think i can safely go to 6 Khz for 8bit sample or 12 Khz for 4bit :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Here is a rom with the samples you provided, honestly for me it does not make much differences but maybe you will prefer this version ;)Quote:
Would love to hear v4 with these samples for a test:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...mod_v4_bis.bin
Much, Much better with this samples!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
Awesome!!!
Glad you appreciate this version that much :) is it that different from v4 ?
The big difference I noticed is that there seems to be less sharp scratchiness in some of the samples. It's not as dramatic as the change from the original game to v4, but it is there.
@Stef
Are you the same person that programmed the emulator Gens?
Once again, I am very dumb so bare with me. Didn't stef convert a wav (everybody should use wavs instead of crappy mp3's) to a vgm or something that was 4 bit 12 hz for a bad apple audio/video for genesis ? That actually still sounded very very good out my genesis. What will sf2sce v5 rom be again ? 4 bit or 8 bit 12 or 22 hz audio ? From wav sources or mp3 sources of samples people provided ?
TrekkiesUnite118> Ok, it was not sure it was that audible. They are less scratchy sure but for me they also sound a bit more muffled but they seems to be a good balance between the 2, maybe i will use them for future versions :)
47iscool> Yeah i wrote Gens, that truly helped me in understanding the machine hardware :)
Bad Apple use 13 Khz 4 bit ADPCM audio, and it was converted from a good quality WAV.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
The problem with sf2ce is that i have different set of samples (coming from the arcade version almost time) but none of them are in high quality to start with (i don't know what is the original sample rate but maybe 7.54 Khz given the CPS1 specs) and also they do not contains the same samples as the MD version (which use some samples for the music as well). So definitely it is not as easy to have better samples for this version... without speaking about the limited room space in the ROM.
Thank you for your answer. Could it have been say, a 10mb to 12mb 22 khz 8 bit audio or no ? The bad apple wav was 44.100hz that was compressed yes ? At any rate, ha get it, the audio/video was still very good for my everdrive and genesis 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
Cool. Thanks for the great piece of software. It's always cool to be able to talk with emulator authors of my favorite console.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
It could have been 22 Khz uncompressed 8 bits with 10MB rom, which is the maximum supported by everdrive, but i wanted to fit in 8 MB anyway.
So what sample rate is the SNES doing? I gather it supported compressed pcm (adpcm?)
Great work Stef! The samples sound much better with your driver I hope you fix the missing sounds issue. I am not sure about the new set of samples they sound less scratchy thatīs right but also more muffled and a bit more quiet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
Thanks!!!! It sounds very nice. Not perfect though. I am sure I can make some (rather minor) improvements to the sounds having both v4 and this variant for comparison. Thanks again! :D
Some quick notes to myself: sfx/music volume ratio seems almost perfect now, slightly too much bass on some sfx, a handful of sfx are still too loud (elephants, plane, car glass).
From my tests with the arcade voice samples and sfx I don't see any room for improvement, I am afraid.
- unless we're using these specs:
Reworking everything at twice the sample rate is the only approach I see where there is any room for any improvement left, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
That said I think the first goal should be to fix the problems with the driver first before attempting to rework the sources in 9.54kHz. What's there is already a HUGE improvement over the original.
It would be fantastic to see the same project for Super Street Fighter II, where the volume of FM channel was the same from the PSG channel.
Matteus>The SNES use BRR compression which is a sort of ADPCM compression (4 bits to 16 bits). The sampling rate is usually really low as the SNES has a very limited memory to store samples but they are filtered and the final output is at 32 Khz, it's why the SNES samples are muffled.
I will provide 2 roms (one with original samples and one with filtered version) so people will be able to judge which version is the best.
I have a new version based on my new driver but i want to test it on real hardware first as from my tests no emulator is accurate enough when it comes to BUS interaction and Z80 emulation in general (even Exodus seems wrong in that aspect :-/).
I could test it as well on my Mega EverDrive and using different models to check if there aren't any audio mishaps (like on HellFire).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
I tested on my everdrive, it just i was not at home but thanks for the offer :)
Unfortunately i tested on the real hardware and still there is some missing SFX sometime.
I believe it does happen really rarely now but still happen :-/
I really don't see any reasons for that, I am even reading commands several time at each sample during the VBlank... Definitely there is something weird in the sound driver (68k side i mean). What could help me is that have a debugger to spy what does the 68k sound driver in game, what are reads & writes on Z80 memory during a complete frame and at which scanline...
Anyway here are version 5 :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...sf2_mod_v5.bin
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...5_filtered.bin
They are based on my second driver, i believe the sample quality is a bit better as i does take care of not using 68k bus even before the V-Int.
We can still hear a bit of distortion (specially on die) but they are caused by the 68k accessing YM for music, i can't do anything for that (sound driver design).
I'm afraid that without better debug tools it will be very difficult for me to understand what the original 68k sound driver does for PCM playback and fix that stupid missing SFX bug :-/
sounds great!
Just played the newest version for about 15 minutes, and i didnt notice the missing SFX anymore, it must be really rare now. This is awesome!
Thanks Stef, you have made all of us Genesis fans proud. I think its safe to say that with your work and Pyrons color hack, we have the best 16 bit port of SF2SCE!
Now if you guys could do the same for SSF2...
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by saturndual32
Thanks :D Yeah from my tests the missing SFX are really rare now, but they still does happen sometime unfortunately.
I will have a look in SSF2. I hope it uses a very similar driver (ideally the same) as disassembling and reverse engineering it can be a pain :p
Great job! I finally got around to testing out v4 and then both v5s on my Mega EverDrive. I was pretty amazed by how much more clearer the sound is. I haven't noticed any missing SFX yet, even on the v4 rom. However I haven't played them very long so I'll be on the lookout when I play them some more. I did notice that v5s seemed to have deeper bass in the sound, which I like. Unless that's just a placebo effect from me expecting even better sound from the v5 roms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
I would offer to debug but I don't know anything about programming. :(
I could post up some YouTube videos showing them recorded from a real Genesis (a Model 2 VA4 w/ an S-Video modded 32X attached) if you'd like and/or don't mind, so others can compare without having to use real hardware.
Stef, i tested v5 and it is very well improved over v4. I can notice that sfx bug start happening more frequently over the time while you play.
In beginning all is perfect and near of the end its gonna happen more and more.
The only thing that bored me is the music fading sometimes... anyway, amazing job Stef keep going!
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkill
Hehe thanks :) yeah i believe version 5 bring again a nice improvement in quality because i finally got rid of the first DMA contention (before the Vint).
About the bug, i will continue to investigate but again, it is really weird :-/
About the youtube video actually i just made one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iE5GJNkOqs
But the quality is so terrible that you can make you own :D Also i did it from a japanese model 1 megadrive, could be nice to have different setup example.
Pyron> What you tell me is interesting ! That could help me in fixing it. Are you sure about this statement ? When you said it happen more and more, do you mean it happen often (more than 2/3 times per round) ?
wow what a huge difference, no more scratchy hadokens for this guy!
Was the feeling I had during a playtrought until the end. At first, as a friend mentioned above nothing was missing and I kept dropping the power as much as I could to test it and everything was ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef
After nothing was near the end when facing the enemy before the penultimate boss failed a spell, then began to fail more then failed the narrator in ROUND1 and etc. .. was gradual.
At least that was the impression I got, you can play and test to see if you have the same impression.
Can Stef program better than Capcom?... SURE-YOU-KAN!!!! (Shoryuken)
Glorious reputation given for a long deserved audio upgrade! *Edit* Damn it, won't let me.
For me it is quite random, sometimes it does not happen for a while and sometime i can experience it 3/4 times in a round (in the video it happened severals time, maybe 4 times) but i did not see relation with time. I need to test more, but that bug is really annoying, i really want to fix it !
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive
And honestly it was not that a difficult task !
WOW! amazing... i just came here to say thank you! great job, congratulations
Years and thousands of forums talk about snes vs megadrive SF2, need to be rewrited now :)
Thanks :p You're so true about the forum stories need to be rewrited now ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by theelf
Allow me, good sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive
*reputation given*
Playing v5 with pyron color fix on an ouya, the sounds drop out occasionally, though curiously not when another sound effect is being called up. I notice it the most during "round" or "you win". Other times its small SFX that don't play.
Thanks Sir !
And a good new : i believe i finally fixed the infamous missing SFX bug :)
I was just trying a last thing and it seems that it made it :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...sf2_mod_v6.bin
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...6_filtered.bin (filtered version)
I hope i really fixed it this time, so far i tested it seems to be ok !
Amazing!! thanks
OK EDIT: After 15minutes playing, only one time i lost a SFX, maybe is something from the game, i can say is perfect? i will play more :)
I dont have words to say how great is this patch
Thanks
Indeed i was too optimist, also got 1 missing SFX in 15mn gameplay (on the round announcement)... too bad. Well it definitely comes from how much i read the SFX command, do not make sense, but well, i guess i can add some in between frame :)
I just got a "you" with no win on the second match of the game. other then that sounds badass!