That's my point. He's not a news site. There's nothing for him to verify. If he wants to talk about facts, he can. If he doesn't, he can say "this game rocks because I blow up aliens". It's entertainment, not journalism. The "journalists" in the entertainment business who walk around taking themselves seriously are the ones who irritate me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
If you're reporting on the video game industry, that's journalism. If you're reviewing a game, that's entertainment.
That is exactly what I mean, and if I was going to be more thorough I don't think any of the media/news outlets follow journalistic principles. They are all creating entertainment, desiring more viewers not the truth of any particular matter. So when we talk about journalism we aren't talking about Journalism proper, but rather the entertainers we have allowed to call themselves journalists for decades. In gaming it is just as bad really, I was blasted by the Retrogamer writer Damien McFerran for reviewing his 32X Retroinspection and finding his historical research completely lacking. He said that I was a loser for noticing and actually flaunted that he did no research. The new editor for Sam Pettus' work complained to me that the book version didn't need citations because "it isn't a wikipedia article". I'm fairly certain both writers consider themselves to be in the field of journalism.
The idea of a journalist with personal integrity to the facts, not embellishment and sensationalism, is a myth relegated to fictional characters like Lois Lane.
I agree with you but we're talking about two related things. There is gaming journalism, and that's people who report on the industry and even the industry's history. They need to stick to proper journalistic principles. As you point out, though, they don't. Those types of people should be held to a high standard and are not. I would argue that our "true" journalists these days don't hold to journalistic principles (cough-Fox News-cough), but that's a whole other discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
Then there is entertainment writing. To me, reviews are for entertainment, not reporting news. Now, if you include information (background information, historic, cross reference, whatever), you should ensure it's accurate as no one should be spreading misinformation. But honestly, they're just writing about whether they like something or not. Whether it's games, movies, food, books, whatever, these people aren't journalists. I get irked by the reviewers in the industry who act like they are. You're fluff writers, people! Get over it! I think that's one of the reasons I do like Mark. He's basically tweaking the nose of those people with his references to journalism.
But CGR specifically posited their videos as "Journalistic Reviews" ...You want to dismiss that as tongue and cheek. Sure whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch
The videos hardly qualify as reviews either. They are overview or impression videos, or often juvenile schtick.
And it is unfortunate that your standard of reviews has devolved to the basest possible excuse. A review should be critical and informative, not solely silly and puerile.
I'd be interested to view a clip which substantiates that excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch
Which is exactly why I am compelled to call out fans of CGR and other disposable entertainment news/information media.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
I have not allowed these frauds to freely call themselves journalists. It is a shame people here are defending and supporting such charlatans.
Posting a link to this advertisement for the CGR forums and website is no different than someone posting a link to an ad for a new flavor of chicken McNugget.
It's hard to not want to take a shit all over it.
Yeah man, damn those people enjoying themselves. =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
If games journalism is a farce anyway (and it is) you might as well find someone likable.
True, and no beef here, but Barone acting like a dipshit is more or less the poster child of "simple whining," which is more or less where this whole conversation started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
You just have to watch the show a lot. He has referred to himself as the cure for gaming journalism in joking fashion. I'm not going to dig through hours of videos to find some of his jokes about being the cure for the corporate review; too much work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
dude obviously wouldn't enjoy the show, and has a high bar that literally zero game review/"journalist" sites abide by. and why is that? because games journalism = enthusiast press at best, an extension of publisher PR at worst. when you accept this, you can either get bummed out at the state of things (in comparison to other entertainment mediums) or kick back, watch Mark & actually have a good time. i choose the latter.
Me too. I like how he tries to keep the focus on what's good about games and doesn't bash them for superficial reasons. Mark strikes me as someone who really likes games and understands that no games is completely liked or hated by everyone. Throw in some of his laid back, witty humor and you've got, to me, some fun, entertaining "reviews".
It all boils down to taste. If you want "serious, critical, informative reviews", to each his own. I prefer my reviews to be more lighthearted and entertaining. Reviewers who take themselves so seriously (i.e. consider themselves "journalists") turn me off, and they often wouldn't know a good game if it came up and bit them in the ass. They're usually just busy trying to show how clever or knowledgeable they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
There's nothing unfortunate about my standard. We're talking about game reviews here. I think you're taking it all a bit too seriously. I have very high standards for serious reporting (which, quite frankly, don't seem to be met at all these days).
That video isn't new; it was made when he wasn't posting reviews on Youtube because of their stupid copyright crackdown. He was making regular Youtube videos that weren't reviews, in order to tell people 'this is my new review, go read it' while also talking about something else as well, so as to make it more than just a little 'here's the link' ad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
Well, you certainly won't find them at any major site. Sometimes HonestGamers is alright, as is the Video-game Critic. As well as more niche blogs/sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch
The devotion to mediocrity that some people are showing here is bizarre IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
Pretty much. But some people here are so devoted to worship Mark that they will write essays all they long to tell you how that is a really awesome and entertaining practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zz Badnusty
This a pretty poor statement and just shows how childish is the line of "thinking" that some of you guys have.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishNinja
It's not really that hard to find shows which will fit Zz Badnusty's criteria, really.
At one time I was a fan of Mark. When he first (re-)appeared on the Internetz, I watched the show religiously. After 2009, I lost interest in CGR once I realized that the quality of the material was subpar and monetization/revenue was his primary for publishing videos on Youtube. I especially hated seeing him review the most mundain things on his channel. You can see the difference in terms of the quality of his videos after 2009. It was as if he was treating the viewer as some kind of cashcow whenever he posted a video. The toilet bowl humor, occasional F-bomb, and seeing him raise his middle finger at games only dampens my enthusiasm for the show. I'm still subscribed to his channel but I will only watch a video if he reviewing a decent game which are few and far between.
tragic that you can't make a point without insults & condescension, but all the same: name some shows/sites which fit the aforementioned journalistic bulletpoints of integrity. at least it'll be entertaining pointing out the holes in them, because again, having following gaming mags/journalism since the fanzine era, let me assure you: it doesn't happen. there's no golden age when it did, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
which premier gaming site do you follow for modern reviews that doesn't accept any gift greater than a cup of coffee? go on, i'll wait.