Best and Worst Japanese Computers?

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10-08-2014, 05:51 PM
Jeckidy

Best and Worst Japanese Computers?

When it comes to stuff like MSX, FM Towns, PC-98, and other japanese home computers of that time, which are the best and worst? I noticed that PC-98 games, as pretty as they are, are almost always shitty hentai visual novels. And even the 'real' games on that system are awful compared to what other machines had at the same time. Sharp X68K had this problem to an extent but much less. It seems its mostly the NEC series that has a serious problem with eroge. Now on the other hand, MSX has a focus on actual games. The fact that 8-bit graphics didn't really do well for hentai kind of helped get it focused on legitimate stuff. Often simple, yes, but highly addictive games. It was a good choice in my opinion for Japan to have as an answer to the Commodore 64. I don't have enough experience with the Fujitsu computers to really say much though. Let me know if there are any others worth mentioning, for praise or scorn.
10-08-2014, 06:10 PM
zetastrike

I like the MSX a lot. The MSX1 is like a Japanese Colecovision. It has a lot of great games and many are on carts, so you don't have to worry about buying a separate peripheral or dealing with old magnetic media. The MSX2 and 2+ are also great and have their share of gems, but there isn't as much software specific for those machines. Ignore the Turbo-R.

From the experience I've had with emulators and what I've read and watched, the X68k is pretty much the high point for Japanese computers. If you're a fan of the kinds of action games Japanese devs made on the MD, then you'll probably like the X68k. Good luck finding a working one for a decent price, though.

Avoid the NEC series. Way too much porn to dig through. I'm not familiar enough with the FM Towns to give you any useful advice.
10-08-2014, 06:23 PM
Jeckidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetastrike

Avoid the NEC series. Way too much porn to dig through. I'm not familiar enough with the FM Towns to give you any useful advice.

From what I know, the Fujitsu computers mostly have ports. Good ones, but not alot of original material. X68K has this problem too but there seems to be more original software like Geograph Seal.
10-08-2014, 06:27 PM
Guntz

Best and worst is difficult to judge when to most people, these computers are very inaccessible. They all require a lot of homework and studying to even figure out what all the pitfalls are.
10-08-2014, 07:25 PM
zetastrike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntz

They all require a lot of homework and studying to even figure out what all the pitfalls are.

And money. None of that stuff comes cheap.
10-08-2014, 07:30 PM
xelement5x

X68K is pretty awesome though you can soak a lot of money into a setup. Thankfully the community around it is still pretty strong so you can get new peripherals and such as well.
10-08-2014, 07:31 PM
Kamahl

X68000 and MSX2 are the ones you want to focus on. The NEC PCs have the most games but they are all mostly horrid or hentai (there's like... 3 good shooters, and the RPGs are nice, but good luck reading japanese).

The X68000 had great support from Capcom and the MSX from Konami, not to mention both have proper gaming hardware, that really shows in the quality of a lot of the games. Both machines suffered a bit from other PC ports but those are easy to spot and ignore.
10-08-2014, 07:34 PM
zetastrike

Is the Sharp X1 garbage? I've only seen a handful of videos, but I wasn't impressed.
10-08-2014, 07:48 PM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetastrike

Is the Sharp X1 garbage? I've only seen a handful of videos, but I wasn't impressed.

Pretty much.

EDIT: Also worth pointing out that the MSX (and to a lesser extent, the MSX2) has an active homebrew scene with a few good games being regularly released. Not near ZX Spectrum level (that has an insane homebrew scene), but the games are better than what you get there.
10-08-2014, 08:12 PM
MaxWar

The fm-towns boasts the best splatterhouse port, the only tatsujin 2 home version, it is arcade perfect and the best version of shadow of the beast.
10-08-2014, 08:30 PM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxWar

The fm-towns boasts the best splatterhouse port, the only tatsujin 2 home version, it is arcade perfect and the best version of shadow of the beast.

... The first rayxanber, and nothing else ;)
10-08-2014, 09:09 PM
MaxWar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

... The first rayxanber, and nothing else ;)

The Doujin Alltynex is also a superb game but you need one of those beasty later FM-towns to play it otherwise it will slow to a crawl all the time.
The version of Genocide 1 and 2 is also supposed to be very good.
It has some other notable ports like a very good version of raiden.
It was a pretty capable machine, basically a 386 PC + hardware sprite and scrolling. It is just a bit lacking in the game library. It focused more on casual games than arcade stuff.
10-08-2014, 09:12 PM
midnightrider

The Sharp X1 had the original Thunder Force.

Can't remember the name of it, but the PC-88 had a spiritual predecessor to Bangai-O.

PC-98 had a massive SRPG series(Farland Story) that was fan translated up to about 6 installments.

Up to you if you feel any of those are worth checking out.

Edit: There actually used to be a site(may still be up I don't know) that separated the hentai and non-hentai games listed for the PC-98. Also hosted translated roms when you clicked on a review of a game that had one.
10-08-2014, 09:36 PM
chinitosoccer

The NEC PC98 is the best, at least it is the most powerful hardware wise.
10-08-2014, 09:54 PM
TailsCD

I believe the MSX had a Metal Gear game that was exclusive to it. I want to say it was Metal Gear 2, but I'm not sure.
10-08-2014, 10:10 PM
chinitosoccer

Both are exclusive to the MSX, the port of the first game for the NES is a totally different game.
10-08-2014, 10:10 PM
midnightrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by TailsCD

I believe the MSX had a Metal Gear game that was exclusive to it. I want to say it was Metal Gear 2, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, it was also fan translated. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake
10-08-2014, 11:04 PM
MaxWar

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinitosoccer

The NEC PC98 is the best, at least it is the most powerful hardware wise.

PC-98 is a series, not a single model. So saying it has the most powerful hardware of the bunch is not very true or fair. The series kept going for longer than the others so the last models were faster but at a given time, for exemple when the X68k was at it's prime, I do not think it was a match for it gaming wise. Also, PC-98 was more business oriented and iirc it does not have the hardware enhancements the x68k and fm-towns had.

It was more akin to western IBM PCs.
10-09-2014, 03:38 AM
A Black Falcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

... The first rayxanber, and nothing else ;)

Mahou Daisakusen? I guess it was also on X68000, but no consoles...
10-09-2014, 06:01 AM
Jeckidy

My exposure to the X68K includes a freeware dojin game by Buster (who did Guardian of Paradise/Akuji the Demon), ports of Twinbee and Dinoland, and of course, Akumajou Dracula/Castlevania. I only have access to them through emulation, but I'm really impressed. The sound quality is like Genesis at its best with graphics far surpassing SNES, Genesis, or even most VGA PC games of the time. I'd say only Amiga or Neo Geo come close. But the rich tone of colors reminds me of the Genesis palette when it was most effectively used. Too bad the companies have pretty much neglected these versions for a proper re-release. Thumbs up anyway.
10-09-2014, 07:25 AM
Jeckidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightrider

Can't remember the name of it, but the PC-88 had a spiritual predecessor to Bangai-O.

You mean Thexder?
10-09-2014, 07:37 AM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Mahou Daisakusen? I guess it was also on X68000, but no consoles...

Didn't know there was an FM-Towns version, good to know!
10-09-2014, 09:15 AM
midnightrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5233

You mean Thexder?

Hover Attack. Hardcore Gaming covered it. 19th entry on this page: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/JPN...computers4.htm
10-09-2014, 09:37 AM
chinitosoccer

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxWar

PC-98 is a series, not a single model. So saying it has the most powerful hardware of the bunch is not very true or fair. The series kept going for longer than the others so the last models were faster but at a given time, for exemple when the X68k was at it's prime, I do not think it was a match for it gaming wise. Also, PC-98 was more business oriented and iirc it does not have the hardware enhancements the x68k and fm-towns had.

It was more akin to western IBM PCs.

I know its a series, and one of the later models came with VGA video cards and Pentium Cpus installed, that beats any Motorola 68000, Z80 or 386 found on the other systems from their competitors.

The PC98 got the first official Neogeo emulator back in 1994 with the release of Samurai Spirits 2 and Fatal Fury 3.
10-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Kamahl

The later PC-98s are basically bog standard IBM PCs, there's no point in getting one of those.

The previous models (without VGA), have cool games, but they almost invariably have awful framerates unless you put a 486 in there.
10-09-2014, 10:10 AM
Pyron

x68k everyone talks about and is really impressive computer with good games and arcade ports, but in the same way fm-towns kick ass too.
one of the best arcades ports and special versions of alot of the games is in that system.
10-09-2014, 10:33 AM
midnightrider

^Well I know it(FM) most likely has the best version of River City Ransom(I'll never fully know how to type out the Japanese name), prior to EX.
10-09-2014, 10:53 AM
chinitosoccer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

The later PC-98s are basically bog standard IBM PCs, there's no point in getting one of those.

The previous models (without VGA), have cool games, but they almost invariably have awful framerates unless you put a 486 in there.

To my knowledge that's not true, the VGA cards found on those computers feature some video modes/effects not included on western IBM PC computers, that way they ensure compatibility with western and PC 88/98 specific software, the same can be said about their sound hardware.

there are some laptop models that can run anything you throw at them, from earlier PC88 games to the latest DOS/Win98 games like Duke Nukem 3D, Windows Doom or Age of Empires 2, Starcraft etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqEdzqDNEOE
10-09-2014, 11:12 AM
Kamahl

Well, yeah, it's an IBM PC that can also play stuff from older PC-98 hardware. Why not just buy older PC-98 hardware? You gain nothing from the later hardware that you wouldn't get from a bog standard DOS machine.
10-09-2014, 11:50 AM
Jeckidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

Well, yeah, it's an IBM PC that can also play stuff from older PC-98 hardware. Why not just buy older PC-98 hardware? You gain nothing from the later hardware that you wouldn't get from a bog standard DOS machine.

Except the ability to play both PC-98 and DOS games with native accuracy and in one machine to boot.
10-09-2014, 12:12 PM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5233

Except the ability to play both PC-98 and DOS games with native accuracy and in one machine to boot.

Well, sure, if you don't have a DOS machine already I guess it's a good purchase. Not sure how the audio will work properly in a lot of the games, I'm guessing you still need to buy a SoundBlaster-16 or such.
10-09-2014, 07:46 PM
chinitosoccer

PC98 is not an IBM PC, it has specific hardware for the video and sound, DOS games use the sound card from the PC98: 6 FM Channels, 6 Rythms, 3 Psg, 1 PCM, check the last part of the video I posted, Doom 2 in OPN.
10-09-2014, 08:20 PM
Kamahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinitosoccer

DOS games use the sound card from the PC98: 6 FM Channels, 6 Rythms, 3 Psg, 1 PCM, check the last part of the video I posted, Doom 2 in OPN.

Not all DOS games use MIDI, some program the card directly. Any game that supports MIDI should work yes.
10-09-2014, 09:01 PM
JumpingRyle

So what's the emulator scene like for these systems?

too lazy to google
10-09-2014, 09:25 PM
chinitosoccer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

Not all DOS games use MIDI, some program the card directly. Any game that supports MIDI should work yes.

But Doom 2 is not using MIDI, the sound is playing through the PC98 OPN card (OPN2 actually), its FM+PCM+PSG.
10-10-2014, 07:45 AM
Jeckidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

So what's the emulator scene like for these systems?

too lazy to google

BlueMSX is pretty amazing. And for Sharp, I'm using WinX68K High Speed version.

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