Real hardware worth all the cost?

List of stupid things to do if you are a retro/old school gamer and want to ruin the amazing experience you could have with the old games:
- Use emulators instead of real hardware.
- Use aftermarket/new replacement controllers instead of good 1st and 3rd party controllers released BITD.
- Use HDTVs instead of SDTVs.
- Use LCD/LED TVs instead of CRT TVs.
- Use RGB/Component video output when playing heavily dithered games.
- Use low-quality cables in your console-to-whatever connections.
- Use cheapo TV/PC speakers instead of a decent quality stereo to output sound.
- Use cheapo earphones instead of decent quality headphones.
- Play emulated collections instead of real console ports/adaptations.
- Buy super duper expensive games and play them using bad/worn out controllers.
- Play alone all the time the games which have great local 2P/multiplayer modes.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

I agree that having access to too many games can be bad. The same is true for music, movies, and any other entertainment medium.

When you fire up an emulator and instantly have access to 1000 games, it's too tempting to just keep switching games rather than devote serious time to a game that doesn't really stick out. But certain games require putting in a lot of time to really get enjoyment from. It's too easy to load up Herzog Zwei for 5 minutes and be like "what the hell is going on" and then switch to another game. Sometimes being stuck with a single game is good.

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True, I find myself doing that a lot with emulators and flash carts.

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Originally Posted by Barone

- Use LCD/LED TVs instead of CRT TVs.

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I disagree, retro gaming to me is just as great if not better on LCD TVs because I can't stand CRT TVs for any use. You can change to 4:3 mode on almost any LCD TV too if you really wanted it to be more accurate.

"LCD" and "accurate" do not belong in the same sentence when talking about retro gaming.

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Originally Posted by Barone

List of stupid things to do if you are a retro/old school gamer and want to ruin the amazing experience you could have with the old games:
- Use emulators instead of real hardware.
- Use aftermarket/new replacement controllers instead of good 1st and 3rd party controllers released BITD.
- Use HDTVs instead of SDTVs.
- Use LCD/LED TVs instead of CRT TVs.
- Use RGB/Component video output when playing heavily dithered games.
- Use low-quality cables in your console-to-whatever connections.
- Use cheapo TV/PC speakers instead of a decent quality stereo to output sound.
- Use cheapo earphones instead of decent quality headphones.
- Play emulated collections instead of real console ports/adaptations.
- Buy super duper expensive games and play them using bad/worn out controllers.
- Play alone all the time the games which have great local 2P/multiplayer modes.

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This man is a prophet, and these words are the words of the gaming gods!

Unfortunately, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Barone again."

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Originally Posted by roadkill

You'd be surprised how quickly 450 dollar RGB modded NESes sell on ebay. I can always sell it back on there if I really want or need to.

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WOW first impression does seem to lead me to believe that that is overpriced. But maybe not. I'm assuming it's a top loader since that seems to be the thing in nes consoles these days. Is the unit bare or did it come with av cables, ac adapter, and controller? If it did official or 3rd party?
I don't know how much Helder's component version of the multiout cost but the base moddel is $35 so I'm guessing not more than $60. The nesRGB is only ~$100. I can't help thinking that I've got two extra top loaders sitting around doing nothing so with a ~160 investment they become $450 systems? Maybe I should jump on the ebay wagon. I only want one top loader anyway.

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Originally Posted by Barone

- Use cheapo TV/PC speakers instead of a decent quality stereo to output sound.

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Speaking of, this is the next area of my retro gaming set up I intend to invest in. Any suggestions for good stereo speakers that wont break the bank?

Gaming on an HDTV can be just as good, provided you do your research in selecting a model, and provided the comparison is with an "average" CRT SDTV, and not some kind of high-end RGB monitor. I took longer than anyone else I know to get an HDTV because of retro gaming, but when I finally did, I was pleasantly surprised with how good it looked.

Anyway, emulation just doesn't really do it for me. I use emulators to "try before I buy", but not for serious gaming sessions. There's something about having the game physically that makes me appreciate it far more. Plus, emulation is only very good for certain systems anyway.

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Originally Posted by Xalphenos

WOW first impression does seem to lead me to believe that that is overpriced. But maybe not. I'm assuming it's a top loader since that seems to be the thing in nes consoles these days. Is the unit bare or did it come with av cables, ac adapter, and controller? If it did official or 3rd party?
I don't know how much Helder's component version of the multiout cost but the base moddel is $35 so I'm guessing not more than $60. The nesRGB is only ~$100. I can't help thinking that I've got two extra top loaders sitting around doing nothing so with a ~160 investment they become $450 systems? Maybe I should jump on the ebay wagon. I only want one top loader anyway.


Speaking of, this is the next area of my retro gaming set up I intend to invest in. Any suggestions for good stereo speakers that wont break the bank?

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It's a front loader, I actually prefer the front loaders despite their flaws. Just a sentimental thing I guess. Yeah it has Helder's component board with a 3D printed Wii Multi-Out so that I can use the Wii's component cables or a Wii2HDMI adapter. I'd imagine a big part of the reason they're priced so high on ebay is because of their ridiculously high seller fees.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Gaming on an HDTV can be just as good, provided you do your research in selecting a model, and provided the comparison is with an "average" CRT SDTV, and not some kind of high-end RGB monitor. I took longer than anyone else I know to get an HDTV because of retro gaming, but when I finally did, I was pleasantly surprised with how good it looked.

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Agreed. Both my HDTVs support 240p on HDMI. One of them also supports 240p on component.

I use a DVD recorder with S-Video input for my Genesis and it has component output. It's able to upscale to either 480i or 480p and does a great job I might add. I don't want to hear the argument "RGB is better on Genesis" because I tried RGB and the colors were washed out and the jailbars were a lot worse, my DVD recorder removes the jailbars from S-Video really well on 480p and there's no input lag.

I actually prefer the front loaders too. I just never liked the look of the top loaders especially with a game in it. Though since getting one, or in my case 3 because I'm an idiot, it has grown on me. I only got a top loader so I could put an nesRGB in it and keep my childhood front loader more or less stock. I did clean the connector on it and disable the cic and now i don't have any loading issues anymore.

I took a long time to research and finally buy a 2008 Samsung 32" LCD, only to have it crap out on me the next year. Since they don't make s-video on new LCDs, they don't get any of my money.

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Originally Posted by Xalphenos

I actually prefer the front loaders too. I just never liked the look of the top loaders especially with a game in it. Though since getting one, or in my case 3 because I'm an idiot, it has grown on me. I only got a top loader so I could put an nesRGB in it and keep my childhood front loader more or less stock. I did clean the connector on it and disable the cic and now i don't have any loading issues anymore.

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I was thinking the same thing, I don't like the look of the Top Loaders and even more so when there's a game in it. That's not a bad idea though, to use a top loader to preserve and keep your front loader relatively at stock. I know those top loaders have extremely durable cartridge connectors.

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Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc

I took a long time to research and finally buy a 2008 Samsung 32" LCD, only to have it crap out on me the next year. Since they don't make s-video on new LCDs, they don't get any of my money.

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Yeah I hate that S-Video is being phased out. It doesn't get the credit it deserves because it's really not that much worse than RGB, at least for older consoles that only output 240p. I'll be holding onto my DVD recorder because of its two S-Video inputs. It acts like a TV scaler when plugged into the component input. I hear some TVs don't even have component anymore though, all the Hollywood studios hate analog video because of the lack of copy protection. No matter, I have a component to HDMI converter to future proof myself even more.

Personally, I enjoy modding my consoles about as much as anything else about the hobby, I've learnt a lot and gained many skills in the process (a buddy just the other day said his monitor died and can I help him fix it [replace the caps] - super simple job for anyone into electronics, but to your general gamer?).

It also ties into my preference for arcade hardware - I play a lot of fighting games, which require VERY accurate timing to be really playable (there have been SO many fighting game ports/emulators which get the general idea correct, but the timings wrong, and it's actually quite frustrating). The OG arcade hardware is the way to go if you want it to be correct.. But then arcade stuff seems to break down more frequently than anything else in existence, so the electronics repair skills become NECESSARY.

Sure, I could spend my time messing around with emulator and game hacking instead (and have done, a bit), but I spend way too much time on the computer already :) Clearly emulation is a far more sensible route for 95% of the people though.

TLDR: hardware is more accurate, and I like tinkering with it. If you don't, I recommend emulators :)

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Originally Posted by Barone

List of stupid things to do if you are a retro/old school gamer and want to ruin the amazing experience you could have with the old games:
- Use emulators instead of real hardware.
- Use aftermarket/new replacement controllers instead of good 1st and 3rd party controllers released BITD.
- Use HDTVs instead of SDTVs.
- Use LCD/LED TVs instead of CRT TVs.
- Use RGB/Component video output when playing heavily dithered games.
- Use low-quality cables in your console-to-whatever connections.
- Use cheapo TV/PC speakers instead of a decent quality stereo to output sound.
- Use cheapo earphones instead of decent quality headphones.
- Play emulated collections instead of real console ports/adaptations.
- Buy super duper expensive games and play them using bad/worn out controllers.
- Play alone all the time the games which have great local 2P/multiplayer modes.

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Heh I'm guilty of the bolded ones.

I tend to thrash my pads hard and then get lazy about replacing them.

also, not sure if my MD still does lower quality output, lifting the pin on the VDP I thought may kill composite and S-Video so I use RGB only. Correct me if I'm wrong there. To be fair, some TVs like my Trinitron have enough control over the softening that you can get a pretty blended image in RGB anyway. My 80cm Panasonic is nowhere near as good at this, and that's the one hooked up at the moment, so stuff like Comix Zone can look pretty damn rough, admittedly.

I agree with everything you mention though, although I hear stuff like the Mini Framemeister can make HDTV more acceptable for retro gaming with the scanline support etc. Still not sure it can ever compete with the phosphor glow of a good CRT in the end.

The convenience and usefulness of emulators can't be understated, but when I'm actually playing, and not just checking something, it's real hardware all the way baby. Apart from the input lag/screen tear deal breaker mentioned earlier, I swear the sound output just isn't quite right, even on Fusion.

The real Model 1 hardware sounds incredible through a good stereo, so it's sad to see YT channels like World of Longplays use emulators where half the sound is usually broken/missing/different.

No wonder people say the MD sounds shit with inaccurate stuff like that getting about.

I'd rather have a 1080p LCD TV than an old CRT one, and I feel no guilt about playing retro games on a 1080p TV either.

Oh no, they're blocky. Yes it's called old games and they are graphically inferior to newer games, who would of thought?

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Originally Posted by Barone

List of stupid things to do if you are a retro/old school gamer and want to ruin the amazing experience you could have with the old games:
- Use emulators instead of real hardware.
- Use aftermarket/new replacement controllers instead of good 1st and 3rd party controllers released BITD.
- Use HDTVs instead of SDTVs.
- Use LCD/LED TVs instead of CRT TVs.
- Use RGB/Component video output when playing heavily dithered games.
- Use low-quality cables in your console-to-whatever connections.
- Use cheapo TV/PC speakers instead of a decent quality stereo to output sound.
- Use cheapo earphones instead of decent quality headphones.
- Play emulated collections instead of real console ports/adaptations.
- Buy super duper expensive games and play them using bad/worn out controllers.
- Play alone all the time the games which have great local 2P/multiplayer modes.

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RGB scart or go home.

I have an even better solution for heavily dithered games than using crap output. Just don't play them. It's not like any of the games that pulled that crap was a must have to begin with.