Thoughts on filters

We've had this discussion before but recently I've discovered that OpenEmu can handle retroarch's shaders. Can't really say the same about my PC, but I could still get some okish results:

http://i.imgur.com/0GoU2mB.png

I dunno, on one hand I kinda like it, on another hand that smeared look is kinda crap. My pc can't handle the best quality upscaler without dropping to like 10 fps (the results are quite a bit better)

I've found most CRT/scanline shaders to make the image too dark (my old CRT didn't look like they do at all), the NTSC filters just make the image look like crap, and just leaving the pixels is kinda silly considering all the technology we have available.

What do you guys think?

I always thought they looked tacky and/or fake. I sometimes use fusion's 25% scanline, but that's it. A lot of those fancy scaling filters just make it look like each pixel was a piece of plastic that got melted to it's neighbor.

That looks awful. I prefer to see the games as they actually look. That filter looks like a high school art project, or yoshi's island. No bueno.

Does anyone want their games to look like this? Besides Thief?

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Originally Posted by ComradeOj

I always thought they looked tacky and/or fake. I sometimes use fusion's 25% scanline, but that's it. A lot of those fancy scaling filters just make it look like each pixel was a piece of plastic that got melted to it's neighbor.

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There's a filter called smart-blur that actually blends the "melted plastic" bits into each other, reducing the issue a bit. Unfortunately using it on top of the others kills my pc.
They do have a rather fake look.

I've given up on scanlines, all they do for me is make the image 25% darker.

http://i.imgur.com/SjH3v9S.png

This one just uses the anti-dithering shader (though not the best one, my PC/OpenEmu can't handle that one xD). Probably my favourite.

For comparison:

http://i.imgur.com/0QiXkLq.png

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

There's a filter called smart-blur that actually blends the "melted plastic" bits into each other, reducing the issue a bit. Unfortunately using it on top of the others kills my pc.
They do have a rather fake look.

I've given up on scanlines, all they do for me is make the image 25% darker.


This one just uses the anti-dithering shader (though not the best one, my PC/OpenEmu can't handle that one xD). Probably my favourite.

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I actually like the look of this one! It removes a lot of the dither without looking fake. How well would it handle SEGA CD FMV games?

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Originally Posted by ComradeOj

I actually like the look of this one! It removes a lot of the dither without looking fake. How well would it handle SEGA CD FMV games?

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Probably not very well, the less "regular" the dithering the worse it works. Any game in mind?

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

Probably not very well, the less "regular" the dithering the worse it works. Any game in mind?

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I was thinking about the cartoon ones like Time Gal, Road Avenger, and Dragon's Lair. I would also be interesting in seeing how live action ones like night trap or sewer shark look. Your probably right about the irregular patterns not looking as great with the filter.

What about when games use dithering for transparency, does that work well?

That first image is the kind of filter I absolutely DESPISE. It makes everything look like massive blobs of oil paint, it's disgusting.

The dithering filter is something I wish the original console had. Some games look terrible in RGB because of the overuse of dithering. That is a filter I would gladly use on an emulator.

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Originally Posted by ComradeOj

What about when games use dithering for transparency, does that work well?

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It depends. If the transparent thing is just one colour it works very well. If it's multiple colours, depends on how close the colours are. If it's moving around and the dithering is changing and it has many colours, the filter can't cope very well:

http://i.imgur.com/nq9kP6A.png

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

What do you guys think?

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This:

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Originally Posted by Ace

That first image is the kind of filter I absolutely DESPISE. It makes everything look like massive blobs of oil paint, it's disgusting.
The dithering filter is something I wish the original console had. Some games look terrible in RGB because of the overuse of dithering. That is a filter I would gladly use on an emulator.

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The first image looks like crap.

The dithering filter is awesome though. Couldn't we create an external box to apply it it on real hardware video output using signal processing?

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Originally Posted by Barone

The dithering filter is awesome though. Couldn't we create an external box to apply it it on real hardware video output using signal processing?

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It should be possible, instead of horrible upscalers you could have something that cleaned the dithering and then just made the pixels big.

Even with the anti-dithering filter, the graphics are sharper than I like. Can it combine with a bilinear blur?

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Originally Posted by midnightrider

Even with the anti-dithering filter, the graphics are sharper than I like. Can it combine with a bilinear blur?

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The whole reason I created this thread is because I'm having a ton of fun mixing filters. Yes, you can totally mix with bilinear, and with scanlines, and with whatever you want!

Here's one that adds SpookyFox's bilateral filter (with the settings ramped up so it blurs more) to create a "dreamy" effect:

http://i.imgur.com/hQdgMXk.png

The same but with a scanline filter (made to look crt-ish):

http://i.imgur.com/07fOExw.png

That last one's kind of nice, it really does look like someone took a photo of a CRT.

I've monkeyed with filters off and on, but I always end up just going without.

Yeah, the only really good NTSC filter is for Nestopia emulator, sadly. You have so much control in that one. I also still only use the Blarg NTSC or Kega Fusion filters only. I don't see anything better with retroarch.

If you want more brightness, can't you just adjust you TV or monitor settings? I drag everything to my HDTV instead of monitor when emulating. Also tricks me better into the feeling that I'm playing on a console then PC. Especially if the gamepad is just right too. And of course I do all my gaming and web browsing from the comfort of my bed with a some comfy pillows stacked behind my head too. Can't stand being in front of a desk all day when using a PC. I'm supposed to feel like at home & not at work.

Resolution settings also affect quality of NTSC filters. You try messing with them? I do it all the time. And having the emulated games on an HDTV also gives you the option of 4:3 aspect ratio to mess around with even more resolution or force some emu's into 4:3 that just don't want to do 4:3 in fullscreen for some reason? (Gens, I'm looking at you >_<)

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

Does anyone want their games to look like this? Besides Thief?

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No, I can't stand the plastic look either from the first post either. But many seem to do going by YouTube.