Tiled resources in DirectX 12 and its impacts on the PS4/XB1 console war?

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Originally Posted by Jay See Double You

5) Is it true that the ESRAM/DDR3 scheme, in theory, would work better under tiled resources than the DDR5? Why or why not?

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The only thing I can comment on for this whole thing.
Just by the nature of how it works, there's no reason why they couldn't use this with DDR5, but it wouldn't gain them as much, if anything, for doing so.

One of the main reasons this works well (in theory anyways) is you can use a general RAM pool like exists in a PC, or the XB1, and then take advantage of the smaller, and faster, RAM pool (like the PC Video card or XB1 ESRAM) to move stuff really quickly. Basically think of it like airport security.

You have the general Security check (RAM), and the fast line (ESRAM/Vid card RAM). If all you have is the one (like the PS4), you're not really gaining much, or anything, by shuffling around the resources.
Whereas with 2 speeds, finding the best way to use the fast lane and not make it go to waste is going to be much more effective.

In terms of the X1 vs PS4, will that small bit of ESRAM allow them to surpass the much larger chunk of DDR5, or even come close to equaling it? I have no idea, but I'd imagine it would be VERY much up to a developer to really be able to squeeze that kind of performance gain from it... I'm not sure something more generalized like this DX12 capability would be enough to really make it work that well.

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Originally Posted by retro nick

To the OP: My only fear about the Xbox One, is that they my have Saturn'd, or PS3'd themselves. Sure, a talented, determined team may be able to squeeze out an amazing amount of performance, but, I feel it may be few, and far between, if it's a big headache.



The Wii U is built upon a legacy architecture that Nintendo is extremely knowledgeable about, and comfortable with, so this makes total since. I'll admit, it may be dated, but it is optimized. Nintendo is making some dazzling looking stuff for the Wii U. They also have an artistic direction that is unique from everyone else, and they never forgot what colors are about. Got to respect that.

I want this current console gen to continue it's (Mostly Indie) emphasis on artistic graphics, not realistic.



This statement is depressing. If this is really happening this way (And I'm inclined to believe you), devs are going to max them out quickly. In some cases, it already seems to be happening: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wit.../1100-6417292/.
I'm not saying that there isn't room for further optimization, but how much will we actually see?

On a more positive note, I'm confident that Naughty Dog, and Microsoft are going to push their respective consoles harder than anyone, and we should see some spectacular results. If not this year, in about 2, or 3.

Although I'm fully aware that current consoles don't compare to gaming PCs, it doesn't bother me. I paid for the convenience of not running on the never ending "gotta upgrade my PC before the next major release/Run my current games better" hampster wheel. I did that for over 10 years, and I'm just tired of it.

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Thats just how it is. On the Dreamcast, PS2, Saturn, SNES, N64 etc. every ounce of power is dedicated towards games.

But then you have the PS4/Xboner. 1/4 of its CPU cores are reserved for the OS, almost half the RAM is reserved for the OS. And I hear some developers are using C# to write games. Overall thats all ridiculous and defeats the purpose of gaming consoles.

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Originally Posted by Benjamin

This is why I don't own any current generation console and a big part of what has put me with Steam as my primary "system." I have roughly 500 Xbox 360 games which I'm still playing through. I'd consider an Xbox One just for the faster hardware and media features, but that'd mean abandoning my current library. For a system based upon similar hardware and OS as its predecessor, it's ridiculous to not support backwards compatibility.

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Eh I'm not sure about that.

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Originally Posted by Benjamin

This is why I don't own any current generation console and a big part of what has put me with Steam as my primary "system." I have roughly 500 Xbox 360 games which I'm still playing through. I'd consider an Xbox One just for the faster hardware and media features, but that'd mean abandoning my current library. For a system based upon similar hardware and OS as its predecessor, it's ridiculous to not support backwards compatibility.

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Different CPU core. Xbox One is not PowerPC based.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Thats just how it is. On the Dreamcast, PS2, Saturn, SNES, N64 etc. every ounce of power is dedicated towards games.

But then you have the PS4/Xboner. 1/4 of its CPU cores are reserved for the OS, almost half the RAM is reserved for the OS. And I hear some developers are using C# to write games. Overall thats all ridiculous and defeats the purpose of gaming consoles.

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True, true. The masses demanded full featured on-line multiplayer, and apps integration, and we all end up with a hard locked OS.
Imagine what could be done with PS4/XBone if devs could boot out of the OS, and write code directly to hardware. Won't ever happen while the products are still alive though.

They just need to trim down the OS footprint. The OS usage should be:

1 core

1 GB RAM


I also found the question I was talking about(although the answer has a lot of PC fanboy bogus in it): http://gaming.stackexchange.com/ques...e-ram-and-vram

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Originally Posted by retro nick

True, true. The masses demanded full featured on-line multiplayer, and apps integration, and we all end up with a hard locked OS.
Imagine what could be done with PS4/XBone if devs could boot out of the OS, and write code directly to hardware. Won't ever happen while the products are still alive though.

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There is always going to be a minimal footprint, at least on the XB1, due to the nature of how it works. It's actually running the "Xbox" in a virtual machine inside the XB1 itself. It can use the system a lot better than most VM's since it's completely custom built for the system, but unless MS completely changes the entire nature of the device, it's never going to boot that way.

It's also what lets it so some of the features that a lot of people like about it, like the game/app resume, playing while running an app, etc.

Although I do agree they should work to get the footprint as small as it absolutely can be. The PS4 isn't operating the same way, but it does have similar concerns. In order to operate in the "single game" mode, it would have to disable a hell of a lot of things that people expect from it.

This video bears a striking resemblance to what I was saying earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FvVwd4jx9Q