With the announcement of the NX, Nintendo admits defeat with the Wii U

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Originally Posted by fruitsofherwomb

Hum, they didn't say that the Nintendo NX was a home console or a handheld or anything. They called it their new 'platform', personally think that its going to be the successor to the 3DS and will basically be a phone with a D-Pad and buttons as optional but a one screen panel that has tablet like multi-touch.

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That sounds awfully similar to the N-Gage and the "Playstation phone" (Xperia Play).

On a related note, it was recently announced that the Playstation Mobile service is shutting down in a few months.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Everyone has a cell phone, and it wouldn't surprise me if the next Nintendo console/handheld is a mobile device with a docking station to function like a console in the home.

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A lot of people have been saying this, but I just can't imagine Nintendo replacing two revenue streams with one. That would be like Apple discontinuing the iPad and making new Macbooks have touchscreens and detachable keyboards. Nintendo is already a fairly narrowly-focused company; it would be foolish of them to put all their eggs in one basket.

I am confident they've learned their lessons with gimmicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puT-1IM3xXc

"The Wii U is doing so badly, that it doesn't get sports games"

What was the last console that didn't get multi-platform sports games? the Atari Jaguar?

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

What was the last console that didn't get multi-platform sports games? the Atari Jaguar?

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Dreamcast?

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

"The Wii U is doing so badly, that it doesn't get sports games"

What was the last console that didn't get multi-platform sports games? the Atari Jaguar?

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The original Wii.

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Originally Posted by maxi

Dreamcast?

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I didn't mention the Dreamcast because it should be excused, the whole EA-Visual Concepts fiasco. Its a whole different story instead of lack of sales.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

The original Wii.

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Prepare to have your mind blown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_15

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

I am confident they've learned their lessons with gimmicks.



"The Wii U is doing so badly, that it doesn't get sports games"

What was the last console that didn't get multi-platform sports games? the Atari Jaguar?

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I love watching his videos, but sometimes he gets his facts somewhat wrong. He says the Dreamcast launched in 1999, even though it had a 1998 launch in Japan. There was also at least a couple million units of the Dreamcast that were dumped onto the market for as little as $50 by the end of 2002.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

I didn't mention the Dreamcast because it should be excused, the whole EA-Visual Concepts fiasco. Its a whole different story instead of lack of sales.



Prepare to have your mind blown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_15

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Holy crap, that FIFA 14 platform list! Yet... No WiiU?

Android
iOS
Windows Phone 8
Java ME
Nintendo 3DS
PlayStation 2
PlayStation 3
PlayStation 4
PlayStation Portable
PlayStation Vita
Wii
Microsoft Windows
Xbox 360
Xbox One

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Originally Posted by j_factor

A lot of people have been saying this, but I just can't imagine Nintendo replacing two revenue streams with one. That would be like Apple discontinuing the iPad and making new Macbooks have touchscreens and detachable keyboards. Nintendo is already a fairly narrowly-focused company; it would be foolish of them to put all their eggs in one basket.

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I believe Nintendo has been flirting around with this idea, when you consider that the Wii U pad streams gaming from the console to the pad instead of using your television. They are combining their console and handheld gaming departments together, instead of being separate entities, after all.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They weren't losing money in the 90's. They are now though, and the little bit of profit they've shown this year was a benefit from a value drop of the yen.

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Let's look at why they lost money though. They lost money because they tried a strategy they had never done before, selling their systems at a loss. It didn't work out, just has it really doesn't work out well for Microsoft or Sony when they do it. The Xbox division has almost never made any profit for Microsoft as a whole. If that division didn't have the foundation of Microsoft to stand on, it would have gone out of business years ago. And Sony is literally bleeding money as we speak thanks to just about every one of their other divisions failing miserably.

Sales have gone up, and they are making a profit now, thanks to new 3DS sales, software sales, and Amiibo sales. If you actually look at the breakdown, a huge chunk of Nintendo's profits come from hardware sales and licensing fees. Flushing that down the drain won't help anything.

And then there's the fact that Nintendo has a huge cash reserve that they've recently used to invest in expanding their development studios and ramping up HD development.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

They aren't making enough money with their current handheld and console. They are testing the waters. You think they'll bring out another handheld, if they are producing better software sales with the larger mobile market?

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The mobile market isn't as lucrative as you think, which is what Nintendo has been saying in their press releases. You think they're going to be pumping out full fledged Mario and Pokemon games on phones. They're not, they can't say this enough times apparently. They are making titles to promote their hardware. So yes, I think Nintendo would still make a handheld even if their mobile games do well. Why? Because Nintendo recognizes that most hardcore gamers don't game on their phones because phones suck for playing anything other than Angry Birds. Touch screens have terrible input latency, are unresponsive, and your fingers clutter the play area. It's not something you want to play Pokemon, Zelda, Mario, Starfox, etc. on. Have you actually tried playing emulators for the NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. on your phone? They're borderline unplayable.

And before you say "But-but, controller docks!" I'd just like to point you to all the posts where you and others bitch about having to buy a Wii remote or nunchuck.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Everyone has a cell phone, and it wouldn't surprise me if the next Nintendo console/handheld is a mobile device with a docking station to function like a console in the home.

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Because that worked out so wonderfully for the Vita...

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Zelda U will be the Wii U's last gasp for air, similar to Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast.

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And what about Starfox? Miyamoto's projects? Devil's Third? Xenoblade Chronicles X?

This is what you guys are misunderstanding here. They're not discontinuing the Wii U. They've simply said "Yes, we have a new platform in the works, as we always do." That new console isn't due out for another 2-3 years. They're still going to develop for and push the Wii U until then, it would be stupid not to.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

I didn't mention the Dreamcast because it should be excused, the whole EA-Visual Concepts fiasco. Its a whole different story instead of lack of sales.

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And what about the shit EA pulled with Nintendo? If you're going to excuse the Dreamcast why not excuse the Wii U too? EA's woes with the Wii U were entirely their own fault. The only people who refuse to admit that are the ones riding the "Nintendoomed" bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Prepare to have your mind blown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_15

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And who's to blame for this? Again it's EA. They tried to peddle shit to Nintendo owners, and Nintendo owners told them to fuck off by not buying their shit. Had they actually put out a good product, maybe their games would have sold better.

Honestly I find the stance a lot of you taking here extremely ironic considering whats going on with the Wii U and Nintendo eerily mirrors what went on with both the Saturn and the Dreamcast. Many of you still complain about this going on with Sega to this day, but when history is literally repeating itself instead of recognizing it and calling the people doing it out on it, you instead buy into the hype and jump on the bandwagon. If you're going to continue on this bandwagon, I don't want to see another thread or complaint from any of you about the following:

-Biased coverage against Sega in gaming magazines
-EA and other developers refusing to support Sega's platforms due to not getting their way
-Developers dropping support for the Saturn and Dreamcast because their poor efforts didn't sell.
-Complaining about poor efforts put out by third party devs on the Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

lol you are so desperately grasping at strings to defend nintendo. but pls keep going I'm laughing my ass off every time

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And you're a troll who's desperately trying to stay relevant by jumping on the bandwagons when they come by. Please keep going, I'm laughing at how pathetic you've become.

But anyways, I'm done with this thread.

My observations indicate that EA is putting sports games on the 3DS.

So they got no beef with Nintendo. They just see the Wii U as not even viable for sports games. Which is pretty crazy considering the PSP is getting them.

IMO Nintendo was defeated a long time ago with the release of PS1. As I said in another thread - PS1 was a real sucessor to SNES, a monster born thanks to Nintendo's slowness. They've almost lost it to Sega when Genesis was released two years in advance while Nintendo was resting on NES laurels. And then they've made the same mistake again when N64 was two years late again. This time Nintendo could not get over the defeat. Gamecube was relevant only because of strong first-party titles. Wii was a godsend and huge financial success to ol' Ninty but irrelevant to the core audience which was divided by 360 and PS3. Wii U - I don't know what this console was made for. It supposed to make a return from casual to core market but was underpowered to do so. Only Nintendo handhelds were going strong through all these years but yet again the mobile market is a major threat to them.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Let's look at why they lost money though. They lost money because they tried a strategy they had never done before, selling their systems at a loss. It didn't work out, just has it really doesn't work out well for Microsoft or Sony when they do it. The Xbox division has almost never made any profit for Microsoft as a whole. If that division didn't have the foundation of Microsoft to stand on, it would have gone out of business years ago. And Sony is literally bleeding money as we speak thanks to just about every one of their other divisions failing miserably.

Sales have gone up, and they are making a profit now, thanks to new 3DS sales, software sales, and Amiibo sales. If you actually look at the breakdown, a huge chunk of Nintendo's profits come from hardware sales and licensing fees. Flushing that down the drain won't help anything.

And then there's the fact that Nintendo has a huge cash reserve that they've recently used to invest in expanding their development studios and ramping up HD development.

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Selling at a loss "worked" for MS and Sony to do what they wanted. MS got the oXbox into homes, got people to recognize the brand, and it made their live service a a big deal. The 360 was a huge success, and even the XB1, with all it's difficulties and pre release problems, has sold damned well compared to pretty much everything but the PS4.

Sony lead with the PS1, Dominated with the PS2, and while they had tons of issues around the launch of the PS3, they eventually recovered. The PS4 has been a wild success.

Nintendo basically did it wrong... because MS/Sony both put out consoles that were powerful and feature rich. They sold at a loss because the core of the systems had quite a bit to offer... in some cases that included things that were a bit much for people to swallow at launch (BluRay, Kinect) but were later made cheaper or removed.

Nintendo took a loss on an expensive platform that was basically firmly nestled in the previous generation. The gamepad is a joke. If MS or Sony had released it, it would have been lambasted and crapped on.

Nintendo got DAMNED lucky with the wii... it was a perfect storm of right time, right place on hardware they could sell for cheap and afford to make/sell even cheaper not long after. But it was not an system with long term appeal for the masses, and certainly not the majority of gamers... the sales of the console slowed, and despite it's unbelievable sales for a few years, both MS and Sony closed the gap by the end of the generation to being within shooting distance of the once unreachable sales it had.

But despite all that, Nintendo has always done some very good games. Without those, the systems would have died miserably.
Those games are the only thing keeping the Wii-u from floundering into complete oblivion. I only hope that whatever their next system is, they don't make it some gimmick box that can only really sell Nintendo IP again. The wii u is a fine console aside from the gamepad. Unfortunately it's what the wii should have been, not what should have been released as a competitor to the PS4 and Xbox One.

In hingsight one problem with the Wii seems to be that third party shovelware ruined Nintendo's reputation.

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Originally Posted by retrospiel

In hingsight one problem with the Wii seems to be that third party shovelware ruined Nintendo's reputation.

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They definitely asked for that by pushing the motion gimmick. It made them buckets of money, but at what cost?

I think Nintendo still has a lot of good will due to their first party properties but the question is, is it enough to compete as a hardware developer?

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Originally Posted by Obviously

They definitely asked for that by pushing the motion gimmick. It made them buckets of money, but at what cost?

I think Nintendo still has a lot of good will due to their first party properties but the question is, is it enough to compete as a hardware developer?

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Not when they sell you last gen specs for current gen prices.

They are going to relegate themselves to a niche market at best if they keep doing that. Their handhelds are a bit different since it's easier to cope with older specs on such a small screen, but the big home consoles show their age in all but the best designed (usually from Nintendo themselves) games.

Whenever people talk about the Wii selling so much, I ask them this.

Can you sell a PS3 to a granny?

Can you sell a Wii to a granny?

Everyone type of person on the planet was fascinated by Wii Sports. Nintendo really hit a home-run with the gimmick they gave the Wii.

So, anyone else looking forward to Splatoon?

It'll be Nintendo's Burning Rangers. A promptly forgotten franchise on a dying system.

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Originally Posted by AlecRob

So, anyone else looking forward to Splatoon?

It'll be Nintendo's Burning Rangers. A promptly forgotten franchise on a dying system.

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This is why I hate what Nintendo's done with the wii and wii u.

I've seen some argue that Nintendo's games would get "Watered down" if there were more games on the system to compete. Which just tells me they don't think Nintendo makes very good games.

I think they do make some excellent games. They are just crippled by Nintendo's own refusal to really put themselves on even footing. (carts, disk limitations, power limitations).

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Everyone type of person on the planet was fascinated by Wii Sports. Nintendo really hit a home-run with the gimmick they gave the Wii.

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A gimmick that attracted a bunch of people and then alienated an audience they are desperately trying to win back.

It was a home run, that was immediately followed up by a bunch of strikes, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

A gimmick that attracted a bunch of people and then alienated an audience they are desperately trying to win back.

It was a home run, that was immediately followed up by a bunch of strikes, sadly.

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They loaded the bases, bunted, and managed to get everyone across home plate. Nintendo has shown that they really don't know WHY the wii printed them money, only that it did.

They basically went and made the wii-u the complete opposite of the wii in ever way other than being less powerful.

It was more expensive.
It had a much less intuitive "novel" control scheme.

And one of the worst offenders. The name and muddled, uncertain marketing strategy did nothing to really catch attention.

The "wii would like to play" commercials were simple, catchy, and showed exactly what made the system appealing to people that were not traditionally "gamers". Wii u, had, and still has, nothing to match that. It's only just now struggling to get down to a price point where it's more palatable for most.

Yea the thing still costs $300. It has a 10-year-old PPC750 processor, DDR3 RAM thats slower than what the 360 has, and it has no HDD.

A very tempting purchase IMO.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

Yea the thing still costs $300. It has a 10-year-old PPC750 processor, DDR3 RAM thats slower than what the 360 has, and it has no HDD.

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PowerPC 750 is actually way older than 10 years. The original 750 was introduced in 1997 with the Mac G3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_7xx#Processors

And people still believe Nintendo is selling the console at a loss. lol

I always thought the Wii U was a final attempt to rebuild the home console market in Japan. The gamepad was there to make it feel like a handheld.

I think nintendo are in a difficult position timing wise. If the release a powerful, expensive console in 2-3 years time, will all the xbox one and ps4 owners go out and get a new system based on a few release titles, when their current systems are likely to be peaking in terms of titles released? Nintendo's reputation is already in the toilet from them selling so many kiddy games, and marketing magic wands to grannies and fat girls, I'm not sure they'll ever regain the glory of the SNES days when they had powerful hardware and some of the most appealing games.

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In an interview with Nikkei, Iwata briefly mentioned the hardware, saying he wouldn't go into particulars about the NX. "However, if you only expand upon existing hardware, it's dull," Iwata said. "In some shape or form, we're always thinking about how we want to surprise players as well as our desire to change each person's video gaming life."

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http://kotaku.com/what-to-expect-nin...rob-1693052456

Sounds to me like they're relatively undeterred by the Wii U's lack of success and feel that their best shot is still the novelty approach. That makes sense, to a point.

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Originally Posted by Dr Robotnik

I always thought the Wii U was a final attempt to rebuild the home console market in Japan. The gamepad was there to make it feel like a handheld.

I think nintendo are in a difficult position timing wise. If the release a powerful, expensive console in 2-3 years time, will all the xbox one and ps4 owners go out and get a new system based on a few release titles, when their current systems are likely to be peaking in terms of titles released? Nintendo's reputation is already in the toilet from them selling so many kiddy games, and marketing magic wands to grannies and fat girls, I'm not sure they'll ever regain the glory of the SNES days when they had powerful hardware and some of the most appealing games.

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Which is valid, possibly for Japan. But why not make the system a real contender? And then make the Gamepad an optional accessory that was marketed heavily and packed in with some bundles?
The Wii-u with close to the power of the other two systems and a similar price point is pretty much all most could ask for.
That way it would get the multi plats with good enough quality to enjoy them + Nintendo's exclusives.

Would it have taken over the console market and beat Sony and MS? Who knows, but at the least, from a consumer perspective, you wouldn't be forced to have another platform (XB1, PS4, PC) to enjoy the larger chunk of games released this generation.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

Sounds to me like they're relatively undeterred by the Wii U's lack of success and feel that their best shot is still the novelty approach. That makes sense, to a point.

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That only makes Nintendo sense. To me it screams that they haven't learned anything and have basically chalked the Wii's success and Wii U's lack of success up to voodoo magic or something.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Has anyone thought that maybe Nintendo do constant gimmicks because their shitty games aren't actually good enough to sell without one?

That might be it.

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Bingo.

Software drives hardware adoption. Nintendo's problem is that their software doesn't excite people anymore. It isn't anything special and it hasn't been anything special for a very long time now.

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Originally Posted by Loggo

Bingo.

Software drives hardware adoption. Nintendo's problem is that their software doesn't excite people anymore. It isn't anything special and it hasn't been anything special for a very long time now.

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Nintendo franchises are usually decades old, they still sell million of units even on the low WiiU install base but it's true that's hard to excite with them since they are so old.
Software drives hardware adoption but the opposite is also true and that's why Mario Kart Wii sold several times more than any other MK games (except MKDS).
The gimmick (which isn't a bad word) is there to excite to mass market but just because your system has a novelty doesn't mean automatically the mass market is interested in it if said "innovation" isn't perceived immediately as exciting and if you don't have software that show at first glance its potential.
That's WiiU main problem.

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Originally Posted by azonicrider

My observations indicate that EA is putting sports games on the 3DS.

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lol, if by sport games you mean Fifa 2012 and 2013 and then "legacy version" of said games for 2014 and 2015 then yeah.
My observation is that EA support for 3DS was in general low (not just talking about sport games) at the beginning and then dropped the following years.

The problem with the gimmick and innovation on the Wii U is that it's cumbersome, a determent to the hardware and playablity of many games, and it's not really that innovative.

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Originally Posted by Folco

Nintendo franchises are usually decades old, they still sell million of units even on the low WiiU install base but it's true that's hard to excite with them since they are so old.
Software drives hardware adoption but the opposite is also true and that's why Mario Kart Wii sold several times more than any other MK games (except MKDS).
The gimmick (which isn't a bad word) is there to excite to mass market but just because your system has a novelty doesn't mean automatically the mass market is interested in it if said "innovation" isn't perceived immediately as exciting and if you don't have software that show at first glance its potential.
That's WiiU main problem.

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The gimmick is there because Nintendo's offerings aren't good enough to do their job anymore.

It's there because modern Nintendo is an incompetent, mismanaged, company that wants to avoid the actual hard work that needs to be done, in key areas, like hardware and software. So, instead, they try to invent "shortcuts" for success.

When the "shortcut" doesn't work -and the only thing left to carry the console is the software itself- they have Wii U.

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Originally Posted by Loggo

The gimmick is there because Nintendo's offerings aren't good enough to do their job anymore.

It's there because modern Nintendo is an incompetent, mismanaged, company that wants to avoid the actual hard work that needs to be done, in key areas, like hardware and software. So, instead, they try to invent "shortcuts" for success.

When the "shortcut" doesn't work -and the only thing left to carry the console is the software itself- they have Wii U.

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Nintendo software is as good as ever.
The context though is radically changed from decades ago.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

The problem with the gimmick and innovation on the Wii U is that it's cumbersome, a determent to the hardware and playablity of many games, and it's not really that innovative.

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You forgot expensive.

And on an underpowered system that one is the worst offender. The tablet is clunky, but usable. It adds nothing to most games that is of any real value, but aside from being clunky doesn't detract from the game much either.

But it's automatically pricing the system out of it's league is something that hurts it in a very real way.

The software may be as good as ever, but there comes a point where you get franchise fatigue. I'm pretty much at that point with Mario, as well as his character schtick.

I don't mind Star Fox, since it's a franchise they haven't beaten to death, and a new Pilot Wings, or Wave Race would certainly be welcomed by me.

The controller itself defeats the purpose of owning a console, in that the controller becomes a segregated experience from the other people you may want to play with. It's nothing more than an glorified streaming device for video from the base station, that does nothing to enhance gameplay, like it was advertised to do.

Nintendo should make a third Sin & Punishment on the Wii U with Treasure. The first two were great games..

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Originally Posted by gamevet

The controller itself defeats the purpose of owning a console, in that the controller becomes a segregated experience from the other people you may want to play with. It's nothing more than an glorified streaming device for video from the base station, that does nothing to enhance gameplay, like it was advertised to do.

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See, the controller has a few awesome uses it can be used for.

The problem is that it's only truly great in a VERY limited number of situations.
Then it has a few where it can be ok, but not really all that special.
And a whole lot where it's just there, and barely adds anything to the experience.

It should NOT have been the default controller, period. I argue the same thing about wii motion controls, but that console at least sold like crazy for several years almost entirely on the merits of wii sports games.

I am more worried about what they are going to call this thing.

Nintendo Wii-U&Mii?

Iwata is saying that this console will be unlike anything we've seen before.

That is not music to my ears.

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

I am more worried about what they are going to call this thing.

Nintendo Wii-U&Mii?

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Seriously? I doubt they'll call it Wii-anything. I don't think it's a strong brand now, and the confusion over the Wii U name didn't help.

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

I am more worried about what they are going to call this thing.

Nintendo Wii-U&Mii?

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I'm going with the Nintendo Puu.

Joking aside I expect a bit more serious name this time around to try and attract some core gamers back into the fold.

You can quote this post in a few months when they reveal the name to laugh at how wrong I probably am.