How popular was the Mega Drive in Japan? A comparison of people per unit

I hear things on this forum all the time about how the MD bombed in Japan. We all know the numbers sold but I've decided to put it in perspective by calculating the number of people per unit sold. I will limit this to the (very) general target demographic of males aged 5-29. I will also only look at sales to 3/95, which is when the MD was basically replaced by the Saturn in Japan. Yes, I know a lot more units sold after that in the US, but the idea of this is to get a sense of how many units were around during the height of the 16-bit era in Japan.

Japan:
Number of males aged 5-29 in 1990: 22.03 million
Number of MDs sold up to 3/95: 3.55 million
Number of SFCs sold up to 3/95: 14.47 million

1 MD for every 6.21 people in the target demographic.
1 SFC for every 1.52 people in the target demographic.

North America:
Number of males aged 5-29 in 1990: 52.09 million
Number of Gens sold up to 3/95: ~16 million (rough estimate based on Famitsu article)
Number of SNESs sold up to 3/95: 15.62 million

1 Genesis for every 3.26 people in the target demographic.
1 SNES for every 3.33 people in the target demographic.

There are, of course, a bunch of other factors at play and this is a very basic analysis. The truth is that the MD's target age demographic in Japan was more like 10-19, which would mean 1 MD for every 2.7 people in the target demographic. But the SFC obviously had a much wider demographic so I've left it as is for reasons of comparison.

The point of this is to show that the MD in Japan was reasonably common. It's hard to argue that it was a failure or niche machine when looked at this way.

Thoughts?

Sources:

Sega sales: www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407
Nintendo sales: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701305
US census data: http://www.census.gov/popest/data/historical/1990s/
Japan census data: http://www.e-stat.go.jp/SG1/estat/Li...25191&cycode=0

Sort of unrelated since it's a comedy show, but it makes me think of the USA special of Game Center CX where the show's writer Kibe is checking out the Genesis stuff because he's a huge Mega Drive fan, only to be shut down by Arino who's mainly interested in the weird looking American Famicoms. When Kibe explains the Genesis is basically synonymous with Sega in the US, Arino is actually surprised to hear it.

The best analogy I can come up with is that in Germany the Mega Drive sold exactly 20% of what the MD sold in Japan - in a country with more than 2/3rd of the population. Yet EVERYONE my age (+/- a couple of years) either owned a Mega Drive or had a friend or neighbor who owned a Mega Drive.

The difference between Germany and Japan is not whether or not the Mega Drive sold well, the difference is that in Japan the Super Famicom sold exceptionally well. Almost every single household in Japan must have had at least one, and for those that didn't another must have had two.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

Sort of unrelated since it's a comedy show, but it makes me think of the USA special of Game Center CX where the show's writer Kibe is checking out the Genesis stuff because he's a huge Mega Drive fan, only to be shut down by Arino who's mainly interested in the weird looking American Famicoms. When Kibe explains the Genesis is basically synonymous with Sega in the US, Arino is actually surprised to hear it.

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What is Arino's deal with SEGA? I'm just a bit curious as to why he hates them so much compared to Nintendo? other than him being completely biased for the company

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JumpingRyle again.

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Originally Posted by DSwizzy145

What is Arino's deal with SEGA? I'm just a bit curious as to why he hates them so much compared to Nintendo? other than him being completely biased for the company

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I don't think he hates it, he really enjoyed Strider for instance. He just never owned one himself so doesn't care so much.

It's just bias mostly. Even here people complain all the time about how the Internet is biased towards the SNES, in Japan the bias towards Nintendo when it comes to the Famicom and Super Famicom is much larger.

His surprise probably came from the fact that when we think Sega in the US, we immediately think of the Genesis. It's probably more likely a Japanese gamer will think Saturn.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

I don't think he hates it, he really enjoyed Strider for instance. He just never owned one himself so doesn't care so much.

It's just bias mostly. Even here people complain all the time about how the Internet is biased towards the SNES, in Japan the bias towards Nintendo when it comes to the Famicom and Super Famicom is much larger.

His surprise probably came from the fact that when we think Sega in the US, we immediately think of the Genesis. It's probably more likely a Japanese gamer will think Saturn.

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Yeah well true, but the way he acts and such also the way he constantly shits on SEGA like they ruined his idol Nintendo or something or killed his childhood gaming skills like he lost at some Sega Mark III arcade port version of some game and hated the company since.

Given that Nintendo is more widely popular in Japan like Dragonball Z is compared to Sega and Jojo's Bizzare Adventure (despite being very popular but yet unknown to the rest of the world) but the way how he says it and puts it like that does make me feel some type of way against him.

Like I mentioned earlier it's also a comedy show so it's played up I'm sure.

There was an episode where he played a Mark III in one of the side segments, again Kibe tried to praise it while Arino didn't even know what it was. :lol:

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

Thoughts?

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When you do a post of this kind it's always a good practice to put the sources of your data.

You're right! My mistake.

Sega sales: www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407
Nintendo sales: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701305
US census data: http://www.census.gov/popest/data/historical/1990s/
Japan census data: http://www.e-stat.go.jp/SG1/estat/Li...25191&cycode=0

Interesting breakdown and dichotomy between the two systems in Japan.

On the topic of Game Center, I really wish Retro Game Challenge (DS) had sold better in the West. It's a shame we never got the sequel over here. Also, the Nintendo-centric nature of the show explains why the first game was basically an homage to NES/Famicom and why the second game just made brief overtures to MSX and SMS/Mark III, with no Genesis/MD-esque games to be found.

Shame that. I'd love to see a developer pick up the idea and roll with it in a more comprehensive fashion. Mini game homages to VCS, NES, SMS, TG16/PCE, Genesis/MD, SNES, and even NEO GEO would make for an awesome video game package.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

Sort of unrelated since it's a comedy show, but it makes me think of the USA special of Game Center CX where the show's writer Kibe is checking out the Genesis stuff because he's a huge Mega Drive fan, only to be shut down by Arino who's mainly interested in the weird looking American Famicoms. When Kibe explains the Genesis is basically synonymous with Sega in the US, Arino is actually surprised to hear it.

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I really like Kibe a lot and the fact that he's a complete nut for Sega (even going so far as to write for the Sega Hard Girls anime) only furthers that affection

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Originally Posted by negative chill

I really like Kibe a lot and the fact that he's a complete nut for Sega (even going so far as to write for the Sega Hard Girls anime) only furthers that affection

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Yeah, Kibe is great, often with comedic timing that rivals Arino's. I didn't realize he wrote for Seha Girls. I was turned off by the cutesyness but I'll give it another chance now.

I apologize to Ryle for the off-topicness. I appreciate the excellent thread topic.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

His surprise probably came from the fact that when we think Sega in the US, we immediately think of the Genesis. It's probably more likely a Japanese gamer will think Saturn.

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It really depends on the person, but I'd say most Japanese people would associate Sega with arcades. Even today Sega still owns a bunch of game centers in Japan. One of the greatest advantages that Sega consoles had in Japan was the access to exclusive Sega arcade ports. Of the few MD games that have been covered on Game Center CX, a lot of them have been arcade ports or sequels (e.g. Super Fantasy Zone, Golden Axe).

On the flip side, the unholy Triforce of Nintendo, Square, and Enix was so dominant in Japan that it is incredible how many systems the MD actually sold. I remember flipping open an issue of Famitsu from 1992 and about 14 of the top 20 user-rated games were RPGs by those three companies. Square had over 50 developers working on Final Fantasy VI. It was practically guaranteed to bring in hundreds of millions of dollars (even at the retail price of ~$110!). Japan was crazy for RPGs and Square and Enix had been pumping them out in large quantity since the 80s on the Famicon. There was no way Sega could ever go head-to-head with that in Japan at the time. That's why they targeted a more specific, older age group who preferred arcade-style games. They performed very well in that light and had dozens of smaller developers making/porting games to the MD.

The landscape was completely different, however, in North America, where RPGs were not the deciding factor and suddenly Sega had a slightly more open playing field.

I am slightly bothered by the continued insistence of certain people that the MD was a failure in Japan, that Sega of Japan was bitter about their own lack of success in the light of how popular the Genesis was, that SoJ sabotaged SoA out of jealousy, that SoJ was incompetent during the MD era and couldn't even sell their console in their own country, and all the usual garbage.

Nakayama and friends made all the right choices, including hiring Kalinske. Obviously things fell apart after '95, but up to then there is NO basis for all of the crap that is loaded onto SoJ.

/rant

I think that the MD is 100 times more known and more popular now, than it was in its prime. I have always wondered about its popularity and sales, myself. I would love to know how many units the top games sold. The huge success of the Saturn is what spurred popularity of the MD. I just wish the popularity would die off again, and take the ridiculous used game price hike of the last 2 years with it!

I've often wondered how the GG did in comparison to the MD, too. SOJ seemed to make more games for the GG than the MD and MCD combined! Especially all those lovely RPGs! Bastards.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

It really depends on the person, but I'd say most Japanese people would associate Sega with arcades. Even today Sega still owns a bunch of game centers in Japan. One of the greatest advantages that Sega consoles had in Japan was the access to exclusive Sega arcade ports. Of the few MD games that have been covered on Game Center CX, a lot of them have been arcade ports or sequels (e.g. Super Fantasy Zone, Golden Axe).

The landscape was completely different, however, in North America, where RPGs were not the deciding factor and suddenly Sega had a slightly more open playing field.

I am slightly bothered by the continued insistence of certain people that the MD was a failure in Japan, that Sega of Japan was bitter about their own lack of success in the light of how popular the Genesis was, that SoJ sabotaged SoA out of jealousy, that SoJ was incompetent during the MD era and couldn't even sell their console in their own country, and all the usual garbage.

Nakayama and friends made all the right choices, including hiring Kalinske. Obviously things fell apart after '95, but up to then there is NO basis for all of the crap that is loaded onto SoJ.

/rant

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The stupid thing is, a lot of SEGA arcade games were NOT exclusive. Look at all the SEGA licensed games on the PC Engine. Some of which are better than their MD counterparts! I never understood why the hell SEGA would license their games to NEC Avenue and other PC Engine third parties such as Telenet and Asmik. It is not like they got anything back from NEC or Hudson in return, like their SNK deal that brought NG games to the Saturn for instance. I suppose it is possible that they lured the likes of Asmik and Telenet to make MD games by licensing their own arcade games to them to release on a rival system.

You also had far superior, arcade perfect ports on the 32-BIT computers such as the X68000 and FM Towns. I still say the MCD should have been 32-BIT or 24-BIT if it was too expensive. SEGA then could have hosted THE best versions of their games on thei own system. I just wish we had an arcade perfect Turbo Outrun like the FM Towns has >_<

Maybe if SEGA were not dumbarses and had used their own CD system for their arcade conversions, they may have been better than the PC Engine versions. It is still a crime to me that there are SEGA games on rival systems that do not exist on their own system. Power Drift being one.

I could never agree with SEGA "doing everything right" during the MD days either. The MCD will always be the thing that makes me think SoJ had no idea what they were doing back then. Certainly the "higher ups" and decision makers.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

I am slightly bothered by the continued insistence of certain people that the MD was a failure in Japan, that Sega of Japan was bitter about their own lack of success in the light of how popular the Genesis was, that SoJ sabotaged SoA out of jealousy, that SoJ was incompetent during the MD era and couldn't even sell their console in their own country, and all the usual garbage.

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I agree, too often people define "failure" as "not coming in first place." Nintendo was a juggernaut and I don't think any amount of successful marketing could have stopped the ball they had rolling, but Sega was still off doing its own thing, pleasing fans and enjoying enough sales to justify making more games.

It's not like it was an obscure console or anything like the previous Sega consoles sort-of were in Japan. People knew what it was. It's almost not worth comparing it to the Super Famicom's insanely freakish success because nearly anything will look like a failure next to that.

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Originally Posted by SegaSonic91

I think that the MD is 100 times more known and more popular now, than it was in its prime. I have always wondered about its popularity and sales, myself. I would love to know how many units the top games sold. The huge success of the Saturn is what spurred popularity of the MD. I just wish the popularity would die off again, and take the ridiculous used game price hike of the last 2 years with it!

I've often wondered how the GG did in comparison to the MD, too. SOJ seemed to make more games for the GG than the MD and MCD combined! Especially all those lovely RPGs! Bastards.

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I think the MD's best selling game was probably Puyo Puyo. I'm almost certain that Puyo Puyo sold over 1 million copies but that's a guess. Within 2 months it had sold 150,000+, and it continued to be an on-off top ten seller for the next 2 years (I got this info from flipping through my friend's copies of Beep MD). It was a huge success for Sega and Compile, both in the arcade and on the MD.

I thought it might have been Puyo Puyo. I remember the sales and chart number being mentioned in MEGATECH and Mean Machines SEGA when it was reviewed. Damn shame the game was not exclusive! Seeing as it was a SEGA/COMPILE game in the arcades. I guess it was like SEGA/WESTONE arcade games where SEGA only owned the name. Riot City is one exile I wish had made it to the MD/MCD. The PC Engine's "Crest of Wolf" was such an incredible pile of crap, it would not have been hard to beat it with a SEGA version! LOL!

I will just add that, the SuFami was a juggernaught, not nintendo. That's how I see it. The Famicom and Super Famicom were made into the monsters they became thanks to third parties. Nintendo have shown that they cannot hold a console on their own merit, once the third parties dump them. The N64 showed that from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by SegaSonic91

I could never agree with SEGA "doing everything right" during the MD days either. The MCD will always be the thing that makes me think SoJ had no idea what they were doing back then. Certainly the "higher ups" and decision makers.

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Put it in perspective: Nintendo made a partnership with Sony in 1988 to develop the SFC-CD. Over 3 years and 200 prototypes later the deal fell apart. Nintendo made a new deal with Philips and the abomination that was the CD-i was born in 1991. When you look at it like that, the MCD doesn't seem so bad. The real limitation was that the hardware just drove the price too high.

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Originally Posted by SegaSonic91

I thought it might have been Puyo Puyo. I remember the sales and chart number being mentioned in MEGATECH and Mean Machines SEGA when it was reviewed. Damn shame the game was not exclusive! Seeing as it was a SEGA/COMPILE game in the arcades. I guess it was like SEGA/WESTONE arcade games where SEGA only owned the name. Riot City is one exile I wish had made it to the MD/MCD. The PC Engine's "Crest of Wolf" was such an incredible pile of crap, it would not have been hard to beat it with a SEGA version! LOL!

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Sega had a timed exclusive with Puyo Puyo. It didn't appear on the SFC until a year after the MD. That was a huge deal.

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Originally Posted by Obviously

I agree, too often people define "failure" as "not coming in first place." Nintendo was a juggernaut and I don't think any amount of successful marketing could have stopped the ball they had rolling, but Sega was still off doing its own thing, pleasing fans and enjoying enough sales to justify making more games.

It's not like it was an obscure console or anything like the previous Sega consoles sort-of were in Japan. People knew what it was. It's almost not worth comparing it to the Super Famicom's insanely freakish success because nearly anything will look like a failure next to that.

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Mega Drive goods are STILL being made in Japan:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psnqoavgof.jpg

The revised Mega Drive Encyclopedia was released last month and has apparently been selling well. On March 21, there was a front page ad for the Mega Drive Encyclopedia in the Yomiuri Shimbun, the largest newspaper in the world with a circulation of over 10 million.

The MD still has a lot of fans.

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Originally Posted by SegaSonic91

I thought it might have been Puyo Puyo. I remember the sales and chart number being mentioned in MEGATECH and Mean Machines SEGA when it was reviewed. Damn shame the game was not exclusive! Seeing as it was a SEGA/COMPILE game in the arcades. I guess it was like SEGA/WESTONE arcade games where SEGA only owned the name. Riot City is one exile I wish had made it to the MD/MCD. The PC Engine's "Crest of Wolf" was such an incredible pile of crap, it would not have been hard to beat it with a SEGA version! LOL!

I will just add that, the SuFami was a juggernaught, not nintendo. That's how I see it. The Famicom and Super Famicom were made into the monsters they became thanks to third parties. Nintendo have shown that they cannot hold a console on their own merit, once the third parties dump them. The N64 showed that from the beginning.

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Westone already showed us what they'd do for a console port of Riot City. A Mega Drive version would only have less color and more parallax. Sega handling a MD port of a Westone System 16 game isn't necessarily going to turn out better than Westone handling a PCE port of a Westone System 16 game, as Monster Lair proves. My guess is that there was a reason for the changes, like they lost some of the assets for the arcade or something (which unfortunately was something that actually happens). I only sampled Riot City in the arcade and didn't finish it because I didn't like it. Felt pretty much the same way about Riot Zone. Seems like a lose-lose scenario either way to me.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psnqoavgof.jpg

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That Mega-Drive plush is adorable~

What's the item below the plushie? Is that the business card holder?

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Originally Posted by negative chill

That Mega-Drive plush is adorable~

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It can be yours for about $40 here!

This was one of the related items that came up:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psmw63wge7.jpg

A Game Gear pen case.

Oh, wow... A Hang-On plastic model! It goes on sale May 31.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psxpaozvhz.jpg

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Originally Posted by SEGA.GENESIS1989

What's the item below the plushie? Is that the business card holder?

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Yeah, it looks like it: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%90%E3.../dp/B00338IEP4

I also found a pdf for making a paper craft MD as seen here: https://twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/st...125120/photo/1

The PDF: http://sega.jp/facebook/file/megadrive_fb.pdf

The instructions on the left are where to cut, and on the right where to fold.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

Yeah, it looks like it: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%90%E3.../dp/B00338IEP4

I also found a pdf for making a paper craft MD as seen here: https://twitter.com/SEGA_OFFICIAL/st...125120/photo/1

The PDF: http://sega.jp/facebook/file/megadrive_fb.pdf

The instructions on the left are where to cut, and on the right where to fold.

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Haha! This is awesome! I need to make this! :p

Anecdotally I would agree that Puyo Puyo has an insane number of copies manufactured for it on the Mega Drive. Pretty much every lot of Mega Drive games I look through on YJA there is at least one copy of Puyo Puyo and/or Shining Force included.

Oh, and I think that little MD below the plushy could also possibly be the MD notepad/book they sold. I grabbed one of those used for a couple bucks just recently.

Is the memopad that small?

Hehe! Just found this one ... A SEGA Mega Drive bag:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...e09o1_1280.jpg


And what about the SEGA Mega Drive laptop which was released a few years ago (Was it 2013?)? There was also a Dreamcast version and a SEGA Saturn version depicted below (All 3 were exclusive to Japan)

http://i2.cdnds.net/13/07/618x406/te...op-range-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by SegaSonic91

I've often wondered how the GG did in comparison to the MD, too. SOJ seemed to make more games for the GG than the MD and MCD combined! Especially all those lovely RPGs! Bastards.

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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407


As for the argument of this thread, Mega Drive was the second best selling console Sega ever released in Japan:

1) Saturn: 5.75M
2) Mega Drive: 3.58M
3) Dreamcast: 2.49M
4) Game Gear: 1.78M
5) SG-1000/Mark III/Master System: 1.44M (SG-1000 sold around 400K, Mark III around 700K, SMS around 340K)
6) Mega CD: 0.40M

No one of those were anywhere close to be the market leader in the respective generation (they all trailed behind consoles by Nintendo, Sony or NEC in the case of early CD player market) .

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Originally Posted by Folco

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407


As for the argument of this thread, Mega Drive was the second best selling console Sega ever released in Japan:

1) Saturn: 5.75M
2) Mega Drive: 3.58M
3) Dreamcast: 2.49M
4) Game Gear: 1.78M
5) SG-1000/Mark III/Master System: 1.44M (SG-1000 sold around 400K, Mark III around 700K, SMS around 340K)
6) Mega CD: 0.40M

No one of those were anywhere close to be the market leader in the respective generation (they all trailed behind consoles by Nintendo, Sony or NEC in the case of early CD player market) .

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It is no surprise that in each generation in Japan, the console that Square/Enix primarily developed for was the market leader by a long shot. This can be seen most easily in the sales of the PS1. As I recall, the PS1 only took its massive lead over the Saturn in Japan when Square announced they would be releasing FFVII exclusively on the PS1.

Anyway, the point of this thread, though, was not to line up overall sales numbers and decide who "won". Clearly there can be two winners in business.

That third party developers continued to make games for the MD shows that it had some degree of popularity. Keep in mind that in most cases Japanese developers were not guaranteed SoA would publish their games in the US (as in the example of Gunstar Heroes almost being turned down by SoA). And most Japanese games didn't seem to sell well in the US anyway.

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

And most Japanese games didn't seem to sell well in the US anyway.

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That doesn't make a lick of sense

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Originally Posted by negative chill

That doesn't make a lick of sense

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Not really, there's a lot of truth in it from the perspective of the time. A great deal of the best selling games for the Genesis were western developed ones even if they're not all considered the console's "best" or even good games today.

The point was that Japanese developers were still making games for a Japanese audience and not strictly for a western one. Unless you were pushed hard by Sega or had a big name franchise you probably weren't going to do that great in the US and as the Genesis got older it became less and less likely you'd get your game out overseas at all, to the point where even popular franchises like Monster World got shelved.

Here are the top ten best selling games in the US as reported by Electronics Boutique for 11/27/1992 (taken from Famitsu 12/11/1992):

1. NFL Sports Talk Football (Genesis)
2. John Madden Football '93 (SNES)
3. Street Fighter 2 (SNES)
4. Super Mario Kart (SNES)
5. John Madden Football '93 (Genesis)
6. Mystic Quest (SNES)
7. Super Mario Land 2 (Gameboy)
8. NHLPA Hockey (Genesis)
9. NCAA Basketball (SNES)
10. Mario Paint (SNES)

So 3 Genesis games in the top 10, and they are all sports titles.

And the bestselling Genesis games in the US for January 1994 as reported in MEGA (I'm not sure how they collected this data; I would expect more sports titles):

1. Mortal Kombat
2. Street Fighter 2
3. Bill Walsh Football
4. Jurassic Park
5. Shining Force
6. Shinobi 3
7. Spider-Man & X-Men
8. Sorceror's Kingdom
9. PGA Tour Golf 2
10. General Chaos

4 Japanese-developed titles in the top 10.

Edit: This Genesis best seller list from EGM June 1994, reported by Babbage's up to 4/12/1993, only has 1 Japanese game on it:

1. X-Men
2. Tony La Russa Baseball
3. Flashback
4. NHLPA Hockey '93
5. Fatal Fury
6. NBA All-Star Challenge
7. Hardball III
8. PGA Tour Golf II
9. Ecco the Dolphin
10. Road Rash 2

SoA just didn't seem to put much faith in the Japanese titles. This is clearly seen if you look at Sega Visions, the official Sega magazine. Most of the focus is on US-developed titles. Landstalker barely even got mentioned in Sega Visions, despite being just about the biggest game on the MD at the time in Japan.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Westone already showed us what they'd do for a console port of Riot City. A Mega Drive version would only have less color and more parallax. Sega handling a MD port of a Westone System 16 game isn't necessarily going to turn out better than Westone handling a PCE port of a Westone System 16 game, as Monster Lair proves. My guess is that there was a reason for the changes, like they lost some of the assets for the arcade or something (which unfortunately was something that actually happens). I only sampled Riot City in the arcade and didn't finish it because I didn't like it. Felt pretty much the same way about Riot Zone. Seems like a lose-lose scenario either way to me.

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A SEGA version would have no doubt been better if some effort was put into it. If it was a well developed MEGA-CD game, it would have blown the PCE SCD version away, easily! The PCE just could not handle a game like that. If you look at FFCD, there is no way in hell, the PCE could have come anywhere near the MCD version. Heavy action beat em ups where just not the PCE's strength. If NEC where not complete dumb arses, and had included the SuperGrafx hardware in the DUO's, it would be a different story. But uhhh, yea, the arcade game sucked anyway, lol! I always wished that SEGA made a SYSTEM-32 arcade Bare Knuckle. That would possibly have been one of the only good beat em ups SEGA ever made in the arcades!

As for WESTONE's games, SEGA made all the conversions on the MD. I really do not think it is far to compare a tiny 4-MBIT game to a CD-ROM2 game, either! Crest of Wolf was made by Hudson but I have no idea if WESTONE had any involvement. The reason it was different to the arcade version is the same as every other SEGA/WESTONE game Hudson mutilated, and then released. They could use the arcade game as a base, but the characters had to be changed. I always figured that the name and characters were SEGA's, and WESTONE retained the basic design of the game. That is how all of Hudson's games turned out on the PCE, at least.

Looking at that Saturn sales figure for Japan, I think that is incorrect. As far as I knew, it was around the 10million mark. That is from the Saturn Fan magazines I bought back in the day. Also, only 400,000 for the MEGA-CD? That seems quite low, as well. I thought LUNAR sold over 400,000?

I think those numbers are about right. Lunar sold 100,000.

I'm pretty sure LUNAR sold more than that. It sold 100,000 systems when it was released, and it was a long seller as far as the MEGA-CD went. But again, I do not have hard info on the matter. I started buying Saturn Fan in August '95. I wish I could have started with December '94 when it was still MEGADRIVE fan. I'd love to see what Eternal Blue's sales were like when it released. For as long as Saturn Fan kept a MEGADRIVE section in the sales chart section, almost always, 2 or 3 of the 5 games were MEGA-CD games. Not always new either. I remember Devastator, Night Trap and even Earnest Evans bing in there!

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Originally Posted by JumpingRyle

Anyway, the point of this thread, though, was not to line up overall sales numbers and decide who "won". Clearly there can be two winners in business.

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Yes, I know.
I thought it would be useful to others to list what other Sega consoles shipped in Japan.
The last sentence is there to suggest the maybe the perception of Sega lack of success in Japan stem from the fact they were always distant second/third runner.

The sad thing is that they were not "distant second runner" with the Saturn until SONY made a backhand deal with Square to make FFVII for the PS1. Once that bastard thing was released, the Saturn did not stand a chance. In saying that, SONY had already been doing what SEGA were always too stupid to do; get as many RPGs on the system as possible. They had built up a very impressive line up of SCEJ published games. It's a shame they did not retain all the amazing teams that they published games for in the PS1 era, the PS3 and now, PS4 could really use some of those quality Japanese RPGs! As long as they were not that godawful modernised shit Japan calls RPGs these days.

I got all excited when I saw the Popolocrois Monogatari name in a "coming soon" list! That excitement disappeared when I saw the "Bokujou Monogatari" kanji next to it. It's been turned into a friggin' Bokujou Monogatari game! On the 3DS! I guess my hope of seeing a new PoPoLoCrois with Ni no Kuni level graphics will never happen now. Looks like SCEJ sold it off. SCEJ really made the PS1 a strong system in the first 2 years and continued onwards through the PS2 era. It's a damn shame they release shit all these days and when they do release something, it's a bloody PSP/PSV game or some crappy download thing. Their biggest game for the PS3 never even made it out! It seems to have been swept under the carpet now, hoping no one will notice. The best thing they showed for the PS4 seems to have disappeared, too. At least I have KNACK, loved that game. I still hope an improved sequel will be announced but I will not hold my breath!

Just touching back on the Saturn's supposed sales numbers, the system had sold a million in its first 3-4 months. There is no way it sold a poultry 4 million after that. The "BIG 3" as they were known in Japan sent sales through the roof. The "BIG 3" being Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2 and SEGA Rally, in that order. The release of VF2 was so huge that game shops opened at midnight to start selling the game! That is just not done in Japan. I've never heard of it happening again, either. Even Square and Dragon Quest games do not get that treatment. They are just relegated to Saturday releases. That started with DQV and FFV. I don't think the police have to worry too much about kids wagging school to buy FF games on release these days ^^ They don't get the attention they once did.

1.78mil for the Game Gear sounds like complete and utter shit to me too. The system received more support than the MD did for christs sake. It also had support well into 1996 and 1997 before it died off.

Popolocrois Monogatari was never a Sony IP, the game for PS1 was based on an already existing lincense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PoPoLoCrois