It would be a bad move to change the product to a better one in the third run, because who will buy the first run of the next game if they don't know if it is the final version?
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It would be a bad move to change the product to a better one in the third run, because who will buy the first run of the next game if they don't know if it is the final version?
Doesn't refer to CMA Death Adder.Quote:
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hahah when did i get Death Adder's minion under my name?
ahh ok it just seemed weird that i noticed it just after saying that i posted this info on other forums :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
how amazing! i hope that there will be HUGE support on this. if the game is profitable perhaps we will see more titles...if more titles come out maybe the sleeping sega giant will awaken!
I would love to see save support for the Genesis CDX.
SEGA-Universe (Germany) interviewed me about Beggar Prince. This article is written in German.
We will be doing a press release shortly, about the third production run. Thanks, everyone, for your continued interest and support. It means a lot to me. :D
GameSpot's Candid Collectors' Union have posted an interview with me, regarding Beggar Prince, Super Fighter Team, and et cetera. In it, among other things, I reveal an interesting easter egg that I haven't spoken publicly about, before now! BONUS!
:)
I think I need to play through this game again.
cma where is this third production run??? We are awaiting eagerly!
I think some very exciting news is on the horizon...Quote:
Originally Posted by megabomberman
...for we have plans for greatness.
I am anticipatory.
Tomorrow, all will be answered. ;)
Do you...know something?
Yes, he found somewhere to store his 30 cases of pickles that his son brought home from the cannery.
Now, now Melf - have you been looking over my shoulder again? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Sure! He knows how to run one hell of a website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
Super Fighter Team has already released two separate runs of Beggar Prince, totalling 900 copies in all. Every single one has been snatched up by hungry Genesis owners, and many have wondered if there would be a third chance to own the first Genesis cartridge sold in almost a decade. Well, Sega-16 went straight to the source and got the scoop! There will indeed be a third run, and this one packs some surprises that'll make the fence sitters fall over. Read our full article on this impressive release, and take advantage of your final chance to own a piece of Genesis history!
Ugh... I feel cheated. If I knew there would be a third run of the game this superior to the initial run, I would never have bought that one. Why should the true Mega Drive fans who pre-ordered the game long before it was released have to have a worse version/or buy the game again?
If SFT had done nothing to try and improve the compatibility issues, people would complain that it did nothing to fix them. It went and took the time and effort to fix them, so what's to complain about? The only other difference is the box art, so if your version saves fine on your console, you're not missing out on anything. There's no "superior" version then. It's kind of silly to think that you should have waited for a third run - that might never happen - to fix the problems in the first run that couldn't be fixed at the time. No one knew how BP would sell, so how would you know that there'd be a second, let alone a third, run?
It would have been nice for there to have been zero compatibility problems, but I think SFT would have addressed this issue before launch if it could have.
No one knows how much time or money it cost to get the game ready for launch, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't something SFT just decided to ignore at the time. Now that it's sold through both runs, it probably had the money needed to go back and fix the problem.
Think about it: the only two areas people complained about have been addressed. Few companies do that now, and none did it when games were done on cartridges. And they had the money and resources to do so.
Best case scenario for appeasing previous customers is to offer a conversion kit to update the old game art: Insert, booklet and label. The printed materials should be cheaper to make than new clamshells, cart shells and circuit boards.
The new packaging looks great, and I know it was a hard decision for SFT to make. The few times I've been involved in making a product to sell, I spent months trying to get it right the first time and there were still things I would have gone back and corrected a second time around.
Well the new artwork looks great, who did it?
They should have taken that time and effort to fix them before releasing the first run. It's not like technology has evolved since that one so they could get rid of the problems now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Well, it doesn't. I have a 32X now and I think the new box art is far better than the last one. So I am missing out on both accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
They could fix it, the product was just rushed to the market. CMA Death Adder confirmed that when he said he was disappointed with the old artwork himself, but didn't want the fans to wait any longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
It would probably had sold even better if they took the time and effort to make the third run version in the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Yes, and that is exactly my point. With the money gained from the inferior version bought by the true fans who weren't so fastidious about the problems the product had, people who didn't support the company in the beginning get what they want now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
The game should still be very buggy, since fixing of that isn't mentioned in the article. Some bugs could easily be fixed. For example if you visit the native village again after that scenario, the game completely messes up and forces you to reset. They could simply have locked the prince out from going in there again and adding a message like "I probably shouldn't visit that place again, because they want to kill me and the game will jitterbug the player to the reset button."Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
MD and especially SNES players felt the exact same as I do now with the Street Fighter 2 updates. Super Street Fighter 2 sold far below what Capcom expected, most likely because players were tired of getting a game that would be bettered just half a year or a year later, in this case Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, which was already in the arcades when its prequel was released on consoles.
I don't see what the fuss is about the save problem, just unplug your 32x and play on the standard console.
Sure the artwork is much nicer now, but your not looking at it when you play the game are you. Unless the only reason you bought the game was to have it sitting on a shelf looking pretty what does it matter really. If it bothers you that much buy the new one and have both, or sell the original on ebay when stock has run out again.
You're completely dismissing the cost and effort it takes to bring a game like this to market. The fact that it's old technology doesn't make manufacturing any cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
I'd sell my old copy on eBay and buy the new one. Problem solved.Quote:
Well, it doesn't. I have a 32X now and I think the new box art is far better than the last one. So I am missing out on both accounts.
Not wanting people to wait for better artwork doesn't equal rushing to market. If that were true, then the vast majority of American Genesis games were rushed to market. :pQuote:
They could fix it, the product was just rushed to the market. CMA Death Adder confirmed that when he said he was disappointed with the old artwork himself, but didn't want the fans to wait any longer.
?? How could they have known a year ago that the third run would be better? If they could have, don't you think they would have? Unless you have a cystal ball, how could you have known that the third run would be better? No one knew how well BP would sell when it was first released, and it's unfair to ask SFT to have known a year ago that they would be able to fix everything people found wrong with the game - before it was even released!Quote:
It would probably had sold even better if they took the time and effort to make the third run version in the beginning.
But those who weren't so fastidious shouldn't care then. If they do, then they can always buy another copy. This run is of 900 copies, so there's plenty of opportunity to get the version you want. I think that it's also unfair to say that those buying now didn't support the company. Only 900 copies were made in the first two runs together, and both sold out completely. I'm sure there were many fans who couldn't buy the game because of money problems, the compatibility issues, etc. Now they have a chance to get a copy.Quote:
Yes, and that is exactly my point. With the money gained from the inferior version bought by the true fans who weren't so fastidious about the problems the product had, people who didn't support the company in the beginning get what they want now.
It's not in the article because I have no idea if any other bugs have been fixed. CMA Death Adder will have to elaborate on that. I never encountered the bug you mentioned, and I'm willing to cut SFT some slack considering the circumstances under which this game was made. You can't compare this to your standard game release because there wasn't a huge budget and a team of testers and programmers working on it. This is an independent release.Quote:
The game should still be very buggy, since fixing of that isn't mentioned in the article. Some bugs could easily be fixed. For example if you visit the native village again after that scenario, the game completely messes up and forces you to reset. They could simply have locked the prince out from going in there again and adding a message like "I probably shouldn't visit that place again, because they want to kill me and the game will jitterbug the player to the reset button."
I don't understand your complaints though. On the one hand, you're taking issue with the fact that they released a new version that fixed the compatibility issue, and on the other you're arguing about them not fixing everything.
This is hardly the same scenario Zebbe. Capcom is a major company that practically lives on Street Fighter ports, and they released them on consoles that were still supported. SFT is a small, independent company that had no prior releases to rely on as capital to fund Beggar Prince, and they released it on a console that's been discontinued for almost a decade.Quote:
MD and especially SNES players felt the exact same as I do now with the Street Fighter 2 updates. Super Street Fighter 2 sold far below what Capcom expected, most likely because players were tired of getting a game that would be bettered just half a year or a year later, in this case Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, which was already in the arcades when its prequel was released on consoles.
Also, those SF games you mentioned were all separate arcade releases as well. This is a improved version of an already existing product, not a sequel.
I say to look at things in a positive light. SFT listened to the very fans you mentioned and fixed the major problems that surfaced.
That is annoying. Think about the people who bought a model I/II/Nomad to play the game just because they couldn't do it on their CDX, Wondermega etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by playgen
When I buy a game, I want the best version of it. Not censored, best box art, most features... whatever. The main point was that they could have done the game this good if they had really cared for the people who were supportive in the beginning. The new version is just to care for those who didn't buy the game. That isn't fair to the loyal customers. If they didn't buy the game, the complainers wouldn't get "their" version.Quote:
Sure the artwork is much nicer now, but your not looking at it when you play the game are you. Unless the only reason you bought the game was to have it sitting on a shelf looking pretty what does it matter really. If it bothers you that much buy the new one and have both, or sell the original on ebay when stock has run out again.
And how much does a model 1 or 2 cost - next to nothing. I'm sure that most people had one lying around anyway. It takes mere seconds to unplug a 32x so thats a non-issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
If they didn't care then they would have charged a whole lot more for the game. Actually they wouldn't have even bothered releasing it, there are far more easier ways to earn money than selling megadrive games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
I would think that practically every game ever released could have been better, and the developer had to miss things they would have liked to have included, but there comes a point when you just have to finish.
If they worked on the original for years, I can't see that the new coding and box art adds much to the manufacturing/production costs. Especially when it is at the same price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Not really. Why would anyone buy it for the same price when the new version is coming? I would lose money on that, plus the shipping costs I pay for again.Quote:
I'd sell my old copy on eBay and buy the new one. Problem solved.
That, and the fact that CMA Death Adder stated that the programmers did everything they could to fix all problems, something they certainly must have not if they fixed it now. The site says "for use with Sega Genesis, Sega Megadrive and Sega Nomad videogame systems and compatibles" but there were no information on the saving issues on CDX, Wondermega etc., something that people at Digital Press didn't know when they bought the game. They felt fooled! I hope they send a message to the developer and say their version doesn't work with their Mega Drive compatible and have the new version free.Quote:
Not wanting people to wait for better artwork doesn't equal rushing to market. If that were true, then the vast majority of American Genesis games were rushed to market. :p
I meant that they should have done the game like the third run in the beginning. CMA Death Adder said himself the box art was disappointing. I think they should have put more effort and time in solving those problems before putting the decision that the game should be released with them and might have the problems solved in the future.Quote:
?? How could they have known a year ago that the third run would be better? If they could have, don't you think they would have? Unless you have a cystal ball, how could you have known that the third run would be better? No one knew how well BP would sell when it was first released, and it's unfair to ask SFT to have known a year ago that they would be able to fix everything people found wrong with the game - before it was even released!
If I buy another copy it feels like my money was wasted when I bought the older one. Some people bought the game without being informed about the compatibility issues.Quote:
But those who weren't so fastidious shouldn't care then. If they do, then they can always buy another copy. This run is of 900 copies, so there's plenty of opportunity to get the version you want. I think that it's also unfair to say that those buying now didn't support the company. Only 900 copies were made in the first two runs together, and both sold out completely. I'm sure there were many fans who couldn't buy the game because of money problems, the compatibility issues, etc. Now they have a chance to get a copy.
Huge budget or not, I bought the game for $40. But I see your point.Quote:
It's not in the article because I have no idea if any other bugs have been fixed. CMA Death Adder will have to elaborate on that. I never encountered the bug you mentioned, and I'm willing to cut SFT some slack considering the circumstances under which this game was made. You can't compare this to your standard game release because there wasn't a huge budget and a team of testers and programmers working on it. This is an independent release.
Because I think they should have fixed everything in the beginning.Quote:
I don't understand your complaints though. On the one hand, you're taking issue with the fact that they released a new version that fixed the compatibility issue, and on the other you're arguing about them not fixing everything.
I don't see any difference. New versions for the same reasons, big or small companies, same shit to me.Quote:
This is hardly the same scenario Zebbe. Capcom is a major company that practically lives on Street Fighter ports, and they released them on consoles that were still supported. SFT is a small, independent company that had no prior releases to rely on as capital to fund Beggar Prince, and they released it on a console that's been discontinued for almost a decade.
Street Fighter 2 Turbo is NOT a sequel.Quote:
Also, those SF games you mentioned were all separate arcade releases as well. This is a improved version of an already existing product, not a sequel.
Okay, I'll try to.Quote:
I say to look at things in a positive light. SFT listened to the very fans you mentioned and fixed the major problems that surfaced.
People at this forum even complained at the price of the game, so it wouldn't surprise me if those people didn't want to add an extra cost to buy a new console. I surely wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by playgen
The time is different now. The Mega Drive was discontinued a decade ago. It's not like you have a deadline to keep up with the latest games released for it. But I can see your point.Quote:
If they didn't care then they would have charged a whole lot more for the game. Actually they wouldn't have even bothered releasing it, there are far more easier ways to earn money than selling megadrive games.
I would think that practically every game ever released could have been better, and the developer had to miss things they would have liked to have included, but there comes a point when you just have to finish.
Buy the new version, and the time to sell your original version on ebay is when this production is sold out. You will at least get your money back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
I think that going back and fixing the code, as well as increased U.S. post office fees, could well have warranted an increase in price for this version. SFT kept the price exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
I've seen copies of BP on eBay go for well above the release price, so you'd at least make back what it cost you. I plan on getting the new version and keeping my old one as well.Quote:
Not really. Why would anyone buy it for the same price when the new version is coming? I would lose money on that, plus the shipping costs I pay for again.
He said they fixed those problems that time and cost would allow, especially those bugs that would crash the game. If Genesis games released during its lifetime, by companies with massive budgets and teams of people, still couldn't iron out all the bugs in their games, how can you expect SFT to write a perfect code, especially when the original was such a mess?Quote:
That, and the fact that CMA Death Adder stated that the programmers did everything they could to fix all problems, something they certainly must have not if they fixed it now.
That's a totally acceptable argument, and like I said before, CMA Death Adder is better informed to discuss that. It's a valid point though.Quote:
The site says "for use with Sega Genesis, Sega Megadrive and Sega Nomad videogame systems and compatibles" but there were no information on the saving issues on CDX, Wondermega etc., something that people at Digital Press didn't know when they bought the game. They felt fooled! I hope they send a message to the developer and say their version doesn't work with their Mega Drive compatible and have the new version free.
Again, you're asking people to know about problems people will have with a game - before said game is released. We don't know the circumstances surrounding the development of BP, and there may very well be issues that caused SFT to not be able to fix the compatibility issues then. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the money to fix it and used the sales from the 1st and 2nd runs to be able to do so. That's improving the product, and you have to give them credit for doing that.Quote:
I meant that they should have done the game like the third run in the beginning. CMA Death Adder said himself the box art was disappointing. I think they should have put more effort and time in solving those problems before putting the decision that the game should be released with them and might have the problems solved in the future.
The box art is a non-issue to me, as it doesn't seem like something worth delaying the game for. It's just a picture, and I really don't care about it. If I did, I wouldn't touch Strider or Dynamite Duke, or any of the hundreds of other Genesis games with questionable box art.
If SFT didn't care about their fans, they would have just released 900 more copies of the original version. The fact that they went back and addressed the issues brought up by the fans themselves shows that they do care.
I would've cared about this before I sold my 32x. Now that Vinny has mine and I play through a pure Genesis, saving isn't an issue. If this new release hasn't fixed any of the crashes, then the only thing that irritates me is that I own the (I assume) less valuable version of the game.
Let me get this straight: first run of 600, second of 300, third of 900?
Yeah, the total for all three runs should be 1800 carts.
(I guess that actually makes the first-run pressing more valuable, then.)
I was thinking about it, and realized how much more I'm looking forward to another, new game from SFT more than extra pressings of Beggar Prince. I hope this "perfect edition" peacefully ends the BP legacy and opens up resources and time for a new project. That said, I'll still buy any of the rumored BP collectibles.
The new run is 900 units, which should make the manufacturing price for each game cheaper, but together with your argument I think the price is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I think I will keep my old one after all. It will be a collector item after all.Quote:
I've seen copies of BP on eBay go for well above the release price, so you'd at least make back what it cost you. I plan on getting the new version and keeping my old one as well.
I thought the team had Mega Drive master programmers.Quote:
He said they fixed those problems that time and cost would allow, especially those bugs that would crash the game. If Genesis games released during its lifetime, by companies with massive budgets and teams of people, still couldn't iron out all the bugs in their games, how can you expect SFT to write a perfect code, especially when the original was such a mess?
The team itself knew of the problems, that is the point. I think the customers should have been informed of any possibilities of improving the coding problems in the future. I would have accepted it more then.Quote:
Again, you're asking people to know about problems people will have with a game - before said game is released. We don't know the circumstances surrounding the development of BP, and there may very well be issues that caused SFT to not be able to fix the compatibility issues then. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the money to fix it and used the sales from the 1st and 2nd runs to be able to do so. That's improving the product, and you have to give them credit for doing that.
I care. If there is a better looking alternative, I take it. I'd even wait for it, especially if the game itself would work through my 32X.Quote:
The box art is a non-issue to me, as it doesn't seem like something worth delaying the game for. It's just a picture, and I really don't care about it. If I did, I wouldn't touch Strider or Dynamite Duke, or any of the hundreds of other Genesis games with questionable box art.
I can agree with that, but then they should have put more effort in the bug fixing if they have done any, because that was actually my biggest issue with the first release. As you said, CMA Death Adder will have to comment on that one.Quote:
If SFT didn't care about their fans, they would have just released 900 more copies of the original version. The fact that they went back and addressed the issues brought up by the fans themselves shows that they do care.
Hopefully, yes. Nothing ensures it though. I got Eliminate Down for $182, I saw it go for ~$350 weeks earlier. Supply and demand is very floating on eBay.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaduflyer
My plan is to wait until they start taking preorders, put my copy up on eBay for a BIN just a bit cheaper than the third run is selling for. If someone buys, I'll put in my order. If it doesn't sell, then God has spoken and I'll keep what I've got. :p
I don't think its important enough of a change to get angry about because you own the original, that will always have its place and owning it is precious enough, The fact that there is new box art and a fixing of the glitch is better for the people who are going to shell out their cash for it now, and after all that is who they are aiming to please, their customers and I most certainly will be one of those!
As said before zebbe, the game goes for 60 to 70 euro at times on ebay, no doubt it will be hard to fetch that price now, but that would be speculating anyway, 40 dollars is not a lot of money and you will be getting more for your bucks this time, enjoy...
I agree with master Zebbe. I think it is a bad decision to change a game in a later run.
We were the first ones to buy this and making it the success it became. Now we end up having the inferior version. No matter if itīs not a problem for me with my model 1 MD, my version of BP is bugged. And it has that horrible artwork, a thing that could have been avoided by delaying it a month in the first place.
Well, it cannot be helped. Looks like us early buyers are the losers.:(
I think I'm going to pass on your first run of TavernRPG.
j/k
Hohoho, I hope we will never change a product once it is released, donīt worry! We try to have it perfect the first time! I donīt think we would change things afterwards, at least not when itīs the teamīs decision. Maybe a typo in the manual, yes. What the publisher does however can never be guaranteed. I remember Good Deal Games releasing a beta of Mighty Mighty Missile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
You have read my opinion on this, so why would I ever do it myself? It is okay to patch something in PC-games, so that every customer has the advantages of it, but this is not possible for MD-games. So the first version has to be the final.
Of course this will raise sales for the third run.
Many collectors will want both versions, so they will buy the third run too although they already own the older version. This may be the reason for doing another 900 copies now, not just 300 like last time. A good way to get some cash for future developements. After all, SFT is a company.
So from a financial standpoint, this is a clever move. But it feels like a slap in the face of us first-hour customers, and that is the bad side of it.
It's a good thing. It's not something to take as a "bug fix" but more something to take as a "gift".
I'm not sure the bugs were fixable two years ago. Maybe they weren't :)
Nice news anyway :)
Well I guess I own the beta version of Beggar Prince. With my version not only do I have to remove the 32X (which is a real pain), I also have to remove the Sega CD or the save files stand a chance of getting corrupted or lost. These issues should have been dealt with at the beginning, and I agree 100% with Zebbe. I guess SFT was just lazy since obviously these issues could have been taken care of back then. They may have wanted to get it released, but that's no excuse to release a shitty version. That's right, a shitty version.
Unless Brandon offers some sort of program where we can send in our old carts and get new EPROMS or get them re-flashed or whatever (a new insert wouldn't hurt, either), then I think I'll wait until the bugs have been removed from the next Super Fighter game before I dare buy, if I buy it at all. I do feel cheated as well.