So I'm not super active here anymore but I've recently started a youtube channel (for funnsies) and I thought my latest video would be a good fit to share with you guys. I've always loved my Sega Genesis and just wanted to share why. I know the Genesis isn't really known for it's RPG library but there's very few SNES games that I love as much as either Shining Force or Shadowrun.
Well, I've only recently discovered I greatly enjoy Phantasy Star IV, but I was always more of an action gamer, so I was never bothered by the Genesis' reputation for not having as much in the way of RPG's.
It does seem ironic that a video on the internet about the Genesis might just be the one to get you to 100 subscribers :p. It may just be lucky timing though, as SNES collecting is either getting too expensive, or people(RPG freaks at that) are finishing their collection, and moving on to the Genesis now.
There is plenty of RPG goodness to be had on the system, but as soon as you mention it, some troll will come and say things like "that's a Western RPG - only JRPGs count, that's an action adventure - not a real RPG, that's not as good as Chrono Trigger, that's on Sega CD, that's unlicensed..." etc.
I figure if you have to make up that many rules, then your argument's pretty weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
It's kind of funny but growing up I didn't even know games were developed in Japan. I mean I guess I could have cracked open a magazine but we didn't subscribe to any in my family. Besides As far as a know JRPG and WRPG didn't really become common terms until the specs between home consoles and pcs began to blur in the xbox generation. Before that it was just console RPG vs PC RPG. Or linear vs nonlinear.
I had a feeling this video would do it. I had 64 subscribers before I posted and had been gaining steady growth since I post the JRPGs for n00bs review. I'm working out a trade for Phantasy Star 4 cart only right now, which I'm going to give away for the 100 sub celebration. So look forward to the corresponding announcement/review video.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Yeah, I remember when I was a PC gamer when I was 13 and Silver came out. Though it was so different to Final Fantasy VII, it was compared to it, probably because both were also on consoles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daria
If you're playing PSIV for the first time, this is something I do(don't know if Zebbe might have some commentary on this, considering his avatar :p), when you get to the town of Zosa, the weapon shop has expensive elemental equipment. I take the time to buy 2 more of each, beyond what you'll equip, so they sit in the inventory otherwise, get silver shields on my mages, and make macro's so they use the weapons in battle as items. They end up contributing good damage without wasting TP(MP in most games), and they wind up with high defense because of the shields.
Also, yeah, understanding what the internet is, RPG discussion will get you better results on the whole. With maybe shoot 'em ups and fighting games behind that. Possibly platformers as well.
Same here, the only jRPGs i like are pretty much strategy ones, like Shining Force or Warsong, because they are more straightforward and focus more on gameplay than lush stories/cutscenes, and to be honest the SNES didn't have anything like that in the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
I think that the Genesis as a whole was a much more varied/ balanced RPG environment than the SNES. It's not really a matter of which is better to me, as much as a matter of which system had the kind of stuff I wanted to play at the time. I think that the Genesis just had a really good range of games in general, but it was pretty interesting in regards to RPG's, as it had traditional JRPG's, Japanese Action RPG's, Western RPG's, Western Strat, Japanese Strat, Etc. It was just really interesting in that way.
I think that the SNES had a really wide range too, but you also have to think about all the other bases that the Genesis had covered in regards to genres. It had this really lush RPG collection, albeit smaller in scale, just as rich as the SNES, but it also had great arcade games, great puzzle games, great exclusives, and an amazing lineup of sports games, (the value of these is subjective, but so is any genre) The Genesis was just had a really well rounded library which is why collecting for it is so damn enjoyable.
Recently I've been going back and grabbing sports games, it's been way more enjoyable than I thought it would, and it really, really opened up the library for me, especially a more arcade/action/twitch game enthusiast, the amount of arcade-style sports games on the Genesis really snuck passed me, and that's a shame, because I would eaten this stuff up as a young kid. In hindsight, it's only obvious that a system like the Genesis would have a healthy arcade-sports game library.
But the SNES had Gemfire and Ogre Battle!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vludi
... yeah you're right.
All technical arguments aside, there was simply NO DENYING the SNES absolutely owned the Genesis on epic RPGs. I'm a fan of both systems, so this isn't a fanboy thing. I put in countless hours of RPGing on the Genesis, including grinding Nei until she could defeat Neifirst, and downing the Mother Brain with Rolf alone. I've completed all 4 Phantasy Stars, Shining in the Darkness, Sword of Vermilion, etc., but none of it was as epic as games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 3/6, just to name a couple right off the bat.
oh boy... I hate to be that guy, but holy crap, Ogre Battle was way overrated...I just couldn't get into that game...Series... Whatever.
Er, so does the Genesis. :D I beat it this week! Nice concept but painfully easy, thanks to the horrendously stupid CPU AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daria
I haven't really found a Genesis RPG that captures the pastoral/haunting thing that some SNES RPGs do really well. The closest I've found are Faery Tale Adventure (but the music is weak and the game world is probably just too empty) and Light Crusader (awesome music but it's mostly more rockin').
I have no idea how to even play an RPG. Are they fun? Is grinding fun?
Sometimes they feel like going on an adventure, exploring fantastical lands, and being transported into a hyperreal state suffused with nostalgia, excitement, foreboding, and/or magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by evilevoix
Other times, they feel like a glorified Skinner box, or a data entry job, accompanied by a corny plot and characters & dialogue that wouldn't make the cut in a high school freshman fiction class.
Most of the time, to be honest, it's closer to the second one. But when the formula works, there's nothing like it.
BTW I think one of the reasons Chrono Trigger is so popular is that grinding is mostly irrelevant/unnecessary in that game.
It always makes me happy to see others acknowledge the masterpiece that is Shining Force! :ok:
If I may offer a suggestion, every Genesis RPGer needs to check out Rings of Power! I will hype that game forever every chance I get, as it's an amazing experience and so underrated. It has a bit of a learning curve, but once I got accustomed to it, it wrapped me up in it's world. It was extremely ahead of it's time, incorporating a humongous, totally open-world style as well as a complex trading system and day/night cycling.
The Genesis had such a varied selection of RPGs: The high tier (Shining Force, Phantasy Star), mid-level (Landstalker, Faery Tale Adventure), and the lower-quality (Traysia, Fatal Labyrinth). The library had and still has so much to offer.
How is Landstalker "mid level"? It is awesome.
At OP: I like your acknowledgement of Phantasy Star III. It is an awesome RPG.
Land stalker is a really great game. The genesis having Land stalker, Crusader of Centy, and Beyond Oasi, and to a lesser extent, Light Crusader, was sitting pretty as far as action RPG's go.
I still put Phantasy Star IV above both of them. After the Macro system, I can't imagine having to go back and input commands for each character every round for every battle. Being able to have your characters converse if you forget your objective is invaluable, and I've maybe seen one "Tales of" game do that since. The character portraits, and the fact that your characters comment on some specific NPC dialogue reminds me of the Grandia series, but this is a Genesis game. Nevermind the perfect pacing, and the fact that the one scene pulls off what Final Fantasy VII only wishes it could have. Plus I never played Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy III/VI twice in the same year, but I have with Phantasy Star IV twice in the same month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrandx
For every great Genesis RPG, including the Sega CD and Pier Solar, I can think of two great SNES RPGs.
That doesn't minimize the great RPG experience on the Genesis, it just illustrates that developers on the SNES placed more emphasize on that genre. Same way I find for ever great SNES SHMUP there are two (maybe three!) for the Genesis.
Not to rattle cages but Landstalker would have been a great game if it had a half-way decent ending. And that whole shadows thing... couldn't even fix that on the sequel for SNES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv07y_Im8H8
As far as overlooked Genesis RPGs that are stellar, and I don't even see it discussed here too often, look no further than Surging Aura.
If you lived in Europe the Mega Drive won because the RPG's actually came out there.
Right on, brother about Rings of Power. It has its flaws but was better than people gave it credit for. I've often emailed people who were involved in its development and asked if they or EA (who has the rights) will release the source code so it can be improved. I hear there was a completed PC and Amiga version that is now either lost or rotting in the archives of EA. I'm hoping that the source can be recovered so the game can be remade by the fans!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera
Wow, I used to lament the fact that we didn't get Lady Stalker in the states... I'm okay with this now. That game doesn't look all that great and sounds pretty terrible. It makes me appreciate Land Stalker that much more. I had Dark Savior, Alundra, and Alundra II, so I got enough from the series.
^Don't forget Time Stalkers, where you could use Lady anyway, Nigel from LandStalker, and Pyra from Shining in the Darkness, as well as 3 others.
I own it, just could never get into the gameplay. I will also be the 5000th person to complain about the isometric jumping. But I did like the world and the characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSciFi
I may need to go back and play Lanstalker again. I've beaten it about 3 and a half times. But it's been years, I'd love to see how it feels to go through it today. I'll dig it out tonight and give it a shot...actually, I'll wait till after I beat Light Crusader.
At the time in North America, the Genesis was the 16-bit console for RPG fans. The SMS and NES still had a strong library, but too many people look back at everything out of context. The SNES only got strong RPG support around the dawn of the 32-bit generation and the Genesis had CD games at that point. The SNES didn't have any games at all until almost 1992, which is a long freaking time. For half the 16-bit gen, the SNES had zero RPGs. If you were actually growing up as a console RPG player at the time, this isn't a debatable subject.
If you were a hardcore RPG fan, you'd have every console and track down every game you could find. But the Genesis and Sega-CD were loaded with fun RPGs and like many Genesis/SMS games vs SNES/NES games in general, Sega 8 & 16-bit RPGs didn't suffer nearly so much from the kind of "cart syndrome" that Nintendo platform games did. All of the biggest "epic" SNES RPGs have that counterbalance of stale/repetitive/mirror-fest/monotony and favoring management sim-style "SYSTEM™s" instead of creating worlds, celebrating artwork and focusing on enjoyment, instead of on time-filling.
I love JRPGs in general and so many SNES/SFC games, but they all have that feeling like they've been neutered and then watered down/stretched out. So many Genesis cart games feel more like CD games, where they're just cool enjoyable experiences, without the feeling of being so compromised. But there's still a huge difference between playing one library of roms vs another library of roms/isos today, and what it was actually like at the time these games were (and weren't) coming out.
Er, I certainly owned a SNES at the time, and half the games I started out with were RPGs: Drakkhen, Ys III, and ActRaiser were among the first games I played on the system, and I'm pretty sure I played Final Fantasy II fairly early on too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Granted those aren't the flagship weeaboo favorites except for FF II (FF IV), but I definitely associated the SNES with RPGs right from the get-go, so it certainly didn't have "zero" RPGs. It was one of the main things I liked about the system, right away.
But then again everyone always claims no one cared about RPGs before the mid-1990s, whereas I certainly spent the late 1980s/early 1990s playing Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Ultima III & IV, etc. on the NES, so...:?
^The problem with that outlook is that you're one individual. How many gaming households around yours cared about RPGs?
Oh I know. I was just kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenband
English would be a nice bonus there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lync
I can think of a few SNES RPGs that I really enjoy. But I just like both Shining Forces and Shadowrun more. I am fully aware that I'm just weird tho. :PQuote:
For every great Genesis RPG, including the Sega CD and Pier Solar, I can think of two great SNES RPGs.
Pretty much my experience. I love the world, and I want to love the game more, but the gameplay gets in the way for me. I still think it's a pretty cool game though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera
I haven't thought about this in a while but it's true nobody around me gave a damn about RPGs until after Final Fantasy 7 except one guy who was really into Chrono Trigger and ended up stealing the copy from the rental place because he couldn't find it in stores.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
A bunch, actually. Several of my siblings and relatives were into them, quite a few of my friends and neighbors played them, and the local rental shops were always well-stocked with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrider
Of course, they were one piece to an overall gaming landscape, but some people act as if -- until FFVII came out -- they were spurned and ignored by all but a teeny-tiny, core group of nerds and proto-weeaboos who imported everything. That's demonstrably not true, and I think it's informed by a perspective just as anecdotal as any.
There were several people in my hometown of 20,000 who loved console RPGs. Several times I wound up at the same house to buy a used game advertised in the local paper and when I was the only one in town with PSII, I was frequently approached in the street by strangers who somehow knew who I was, desperately offering me massive trades or cash to get the game from me.
Nice video, it's good to get some Genesis RPG love. I didn't play RPGs until Lunar which was on the Sega CD so I missed a lot of the Genesis cart titles until later on in life. Oh, and congrats on passing 100 subs :D
BTW MIJET released an experimental control patch for Landstalker to make the controls not require diagonal presses but simply single-key advancement like in most standard isometric stuff. Although by default I don't like the one he chose. There's no documentation at this time either (visit mijet.eludevisibility.org) but I wouldn't be surprised if he programmed in the ability to reverse the control setup while keeping the single-key hack in place, and is simply not telling us at this time.
Nice site! Thanks for the heads up. I'd rep you but it won't let me :ok:Quote:
Originally Posted by 5233
Does anyone else think Sega seemed to show a bit more confidence in their customers than Nintendo? They brought over just about all the major RPGs and games like Shining Force and Langrisser. Most of the really celebrated SNES RPGs were late releases and they never localized Fire Emblem. And weren't some of the higher ups at NoJ quoted as saying white kids were going to be too stupid for games like the original Zelda? Sega even brought over most of the SMS RPGs as well.
What I often hear people say is that some companies give players the games they want, while Nintendo tells people what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
What was the SNES Fire Emblem like? How does it compare to Shining Force I and II? It alwasy felt like Nintendo's answer to those games.
Other way around really. They're good games, I like Shining Force better personally but I'm biased.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge