GENESIS GAMES THAT TO PERFORM/ SIMULATE 3 OR MORE BACKGORUND LAYERS

Yep, to be in the technical specifications of our favourite 16 bits system, two background layers is the maximum supported, few games have managed to go beyond, Sonic 3 uses animated tiles in Hidrocity Zone, other games use replaced sprites, clever low/high priorities or wise parallax linescrolling, but the final result is the same, 3 or more backgrounds apparently fully (or almost) tilled overlapped.

One curious case skip to 39 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWr2w983IBM

I need your opinions, to post their examples, so we can understand how the Genesis overcome this technical barrier.


OBSERVATION: Do not confuse with foreground linescroll.

Thanks.;)


Games list user name in bold.

Toy Story add for me
https://i.imgur.com/gihxZgO.mp4

Toki Going to Ape add for me and Zebbe
http://i.imgur.com/Dr0XXmT.gif

Adventures of Batman & Robin add for me
https://j.gifs.com/1jDo3o.gif

Project MD add by Sik
https://j.gifs.com/1jDop0.gif

https://j.gifs.com/O7RvXB.gif

Sonic 2 Hill Top Zone add by Sik
https://j.gifs.com/g5PqyZ.gif

Street of Rage Beach Stage add for me
https://j.gifs.com/2REpJP.gif

Cheese Cat Astrophe add by magicalsoundshower
https://j.gifs.com/y8n4zz.gif

Sonic 1 Starlight Zone add for me
https://j.gifs.com/ElBgym.gif

Super Fantasy Zone add for me
https://j.gifs.com/j2PwMY.gif

Pingouim Bleu homebrew add by tryphon
https://j.gifs.com/xGm05E.gif

Gunstar Heroes add for me
https://j.gifs.com/pgPn52.gif

Mickey Mouse Castle of Illusion - Candyland Stage - add by me
https://j.gifs.com/8qlyWl.gif

Revenge of Shinobi stage 1 add by me
https://j.gifs.com/P1KgOn.gif

Sonic the Next Level add by Manveru
https://j.gifs.com/mwPzVn.gif

Ristar first boss scenery add by me
https://j.gifs.com/nZPA7D.gif

Eternal Champions add by me
https://j.gifs.com/O7RvRE.gif

Power Athlete add by Pyron
https://j.gifs.com/r06G6L.gif

Thunder Force IV Strife add by AggroSky
https://j.gifs.com/Q1RxB5.gif

Light Crusader intro screen add by Zebbe
https://j.gifs.com/r06GWp.gif

Sonic 2 Aquatic Ruin Zone add by midnightrider
https://j.gifs.com/vgkMv8.gif

Dynamitte Heady missile base add by me
https://j.gifs.com/nZPlyR.gif

Sonic 3 Carnival Zone add by Thief
https://j.gifs.com/X6RG9v.gif

Simpsons Barts Nightmare add by me
http://i.imgur.com/HmG17pM.gifv

Rocket Knight Adventures - Sea Stage - add by me
https://j.gifs.com/Rg7X7E.gif

Earnest Evans climb stage add by me
https://j.gifs.com/r06WVW.gif

Alien Soldier Crazy Dick Boss
https://j.gifs.com/Q1RzGG.gif

James Pond add by me
https://j.gifs.com/DRlN0K.gif

excepcionally Micro Machines for Master System - animated tiles add by moon
http://i.imgur.com/9BkflC8.gif

Very thanks all contibutors!

The foreground part, closest to the camera, is made up of sprites. The I-beams and the rod the connects them, they're sprites. The rod creates sprite overflow when fully on screen, but won't notice it because it's solid, so anything that appears behind it - always will (other sprites) whether they blank out or not. I've seen that trick before, but it's not used that often because of how limited it is.

The next two layers are regular BG layers. Nothing fancy there.

The last layer is the BG color #0 trick. You use an interrupt to change this color to produce a gradient down the screen (nothing can show behind it, not even the lowest priority sprites). Amiga games were notorious for using this color change trick, although it was usually more complex on the Amiga. In the demo scene, this was called "copper bars" - even if it wasn't on the Amiga and didn't use "copper" co-processor.

Question: I thought the Genesis had 4 layers out of the box? Why are 3 layers considered impressive?

It's the SNES which has four layers. Mega Drive has two.

Oh I see. Weird, I thought it was 4 for each console, my bad.

Related:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ound-parallax)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stika

Oh I see. Weird, I thought it was 4 for each console, my bad.

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The genesis has 4 layers, but not 4 background ones. It has 2 background layers, 1 sprite layer and 1 "window" layer (used for status bars, kinda worthless since many games don't even use it for that). On the SNES it depends on the graphics mode, and varies between 2 to 5 layers (1 sprite layer + X background layers).

The SNES extra backgrounds aren't free though. With 3 it can't do column scrolling (and the third layer is low colour), and with 4 it loses a lot of colour in every layer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

The genesis has 4 layers, but not 4 background ones. It has 2 background layers, 1 sprite layer and 1 "window" layer (used for status bars, kinda worthless since many games don't even use it for that). On the SNES it depends on the graphics mode, and varies between 2 to 5 layers (1 sprite layer + X background layers).

The SNES extra backgrounds aren't free though. With 3 it can't do column scrolling (and the third layer is low colour), and with 4 it loses a lot of colour in every layer.

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Ah I see, thank you

The most popular SNES Mode also restricts the color of a layer (often used for HUD stuff) to a handful of colors, so that it looks like a colorized Gameboy game or NES graphics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

The foreground part, closest to the camera, is made up of sprites. The I-beams and the rod the connects them, they're sprites. The rod creates sprite overflow when fully on screen, but won't notice it because it's solid, so anything that appears behind it - always will (other sprites) whether they blank out or not. I've seen that trick before, but it's not used that often because of how limited it is.

The next two layers are regular BG layers. Nothing fancy there.

The last layer is the BG color #0 trick. You use an interrupt to change this color to produce a gradient down the screen (nothing can show behind it, not even the lowest priority sprites). Amiga games were notorious for using this color change trick, although it was usually more complex on the Amiga. In the demo scene, this was called "copper bars" - even if it wasn't on the Amiga and didn't use "copper" co-processor.

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I'm curious about the foreground layer moves in sync with the third layer, follows the Super Nes version for comparison, Genesis stage is more beautiful for my taste.

skip to 1:00:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqtijsWPpYE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE

I'm curious about the foreground layer moves in sync with the third layer

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It does. I thought it was using sprites to mask out over the sprites underneath, but looking at it again - it's just a priority level thing. The foreground and the last layer are the same, and the same speed, but the I beam and the rod/bar are high priority tiles while on the same layer the there are low priority tiles in other parts of the BG layer, making them appear behind the middle layer (which is its own layer). The 1st and 3rd layer always scroll at the same speed because they are the same layer, only the second layer is independent in scrolling.

For scrolling, or rather a parallax view, this actually makes no sense. It's a broken illusion, but one that really isn't that noticeable. Even if the scrolling layers don't make logical sense, the depth is felt and that's key. Nice example there Epsylon.

Edit:

The snes 3 layer mode has some pretty good usage in this game. For the cave level, at 11:15, that three layer parallax layer looks very nice. The forest stage right after it, also has some nice 3 layer depth. The additional parallax strips in the Genesis version of the first stage looks weird and wrong. Why is the city-scape section scrolling waaay faster than the cloud layers? Plus the fixed clouds around the moon, in the middle those parallax strips looks weird. The snes version of that level looks cleaner and better visually because it doesn't have all of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

For scrolling, or rather a parallax view, this actually makes no sense. It's a broken illusion, but one that really isn't that noticeable. Even if the scrolling layers don't make logical sense, the depth is felt and that's key. Nice example there Epsylon.

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Indeed, it's nonsensical and yet it works. Well done on the developers. I also really like the colour use in the game, instead of dithering everything to hell they reuse colours as much as possible. IMO that's a better approach (worked pretty well for Lords of Thunder on the Sega CD too).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

The most popular SNES Mode also restricts the color of a layer (often used for HUD stuff) to a handful of colors, so that it looks like a colorized Gameboy game or NES graphics.

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In the hands of skilled developers the Super Nes can make huge environments, it's hard time for Genesis replicating with accuracy this pics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXskmLqKnko

1:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1vQnfzLVs

2:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn31QUC9Ro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6T5j_HiwTQ

Back to the Genesis, Toki Going to Ape, the first stage features the neat trick of placing sprites on the trees trunks, works great for a early game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMxpDFj-xzk

Toy Story for Genesis perform one third layer, look beyond the window the far background moves, it's probably animated tiles.

https://j.gifs.com/76kxAj.gif

Super Nes version don't perform the trick in this stage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbjfZo_uFeQ&index=7&list=PLCC6CE06971AB8F2 C

Very cool thread!

Next case is Adventures of Batman & Robin, in the top shooter stage, during the battle against the airship sub-boss.

At first, thought that huge airship has built by sprites, but no, the airship is the background layer A, after we have two other overlap cloud layers moving at different speeds, it's very impressive how smooth all works, the vertical stretch lines works very well and simulate one extra layer and fake translucenty.

https://j.gifs.com/1jDo3o.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE

Next case is Adventures of Batman & Robin, in the top shooter stage during the battle against the airship sub-boss.
At first, thought the huge airship has built by sprites, but no he is the background layer A, after we have two other overlap cloud layers moving at different speeds, it's very impressive how smooth all works, do not confuse, the vertical stretch lines it is only vertical dithering to simulate transparency effects, does not exist interlace wich is used in this game for fake translucenty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xpzCbRurdM

0:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCB8jCw2Ofs

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Yeah, it's just even scanlines scroll at a different speed an odd scanlines for that single BG layer. I've seen it done in other games, but it looks better here since the colors are low brightness and little contrast.

Surprised nobody mentioned this yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snoy7wv1RCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3brS0fCKg

Also one that tends to go ignored (look at the base of the mountains):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKP4m7BHF1A

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Edit:

The snes 3 layer mode has some pretty good usage in this game. For the cave level, at 11:15, that three layer parallax layer looks very nice. The forest stage right after it, also has some nice 3 layer depth. The additional parallax strips in the Genesis version of the first stage looks weird and wrong. Why is the city-scape section scrolling waaay faster than the cloud layers? Plus the fixed clouds around the moon, in the middle those parallax strips looks weird. The snes version of that level looks cleaner and better visually because it doesn't have all of that.

---

Even on remake of super mario bros 1 ( super mario all stars ), there are a lot of levels on 3 background layers.
On snes, it's hard to find games on 4 background layers. ( Donkey kong country and some others games )
But on 3 background layers, it is very easy to find a large number of games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sik

Surprised nobody mentioned this yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snoy7wv1RCE

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Frozen Memories was in my future post list, but nothing better than to be submitted by the game creator. :)

IIRC

Layer 1 where game action happens Plan A
Layer 2 the overlap columns are sprites Plan B
Layer 3 and Layer 4 not totally overlapped columns, but move at different speeds also Plan B.

The end result is impressive, we have the perfect impression that Genesis is dealing with 4 layers when they are only two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3brS0fCKg

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Yep, this stage it's intriguing, in some points in first layer has dithered and shadows transparencies effects, but what's the hell happens in second 2nd layer, it has several translucenty colors (blue, red, violet) overlapping the greenish third layer and the most impressive, seems not dither!

What's the wizardry back this?

Project MD is honestly one of 2d games with the most creative design, it's funny and challenging, certainly is among the most beautiful Genesis games, what is lacking to launch it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sik

Also one that tends to go ignored (look at the base of the mountains):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKP4m7BHF1A

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I'm pretty sure that the mountains are sprites, in that particular stage, has much less interaction with rings and enemies on screen in comparision with another stages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Even on remake of super mario bros 1 ( super mario all stars ), there are a lot of levels on 3 background layers.
On snes, it's hard to find games on 4 background layers. ( Donkey kong country and some others games )
But on 3 background layers, it is very easy to find a large number of games.

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It is very unlikely, the four background layers Super Nes mode only support low color count. Is not very adequate for the Donkey Kong Country high count color configuration, the mostly game stages perform 3 layers (mode 1).

My Genesis game for today is Streets of Rage 1, look to the coconuts trees and outdoors overlapping the city night skyline.
https://j.gifs.com/2REpJP.gif

Sprites?

I like this, it simulates a true 3 background layer.
Witk Gens K mod, you can activate or not layer A, layer B an sprites.
Start the rom and play.
On the stage 3, you go in the top bar and go to CPU, then Debug and Layer.

Like here :

Attachment 10974


Sprites is just the upper part ( second half ) of the tree trunk on the first layer .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xv4YsZyaMo

Here's this seemingly obscure-ish Speedy Gonzales game, which was apparently developed by none other than French FMV "wizards" Cryo Interactive (anyone who was into PC gaming in the mid-90s probably remembers them for their pretty but ultimately boring games).

The game seems to fake a third layer by reusing BG A and switching it to the back. As the desert foreground and the mountains in the back never overlap and the level only scrolls horizontally, it works without a hitch.

It's a neat trick, but more impressive in games such as Thunder Force 4 or Rocket Knight Adventures.

Plus, that Yogi Bear game in the first post really has that "Euro" look going on. It even looks like it was originally going to be an Amiga game in a ton of places. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magicalsoundshower

The game seems to fake a third layer by reusing BG A and switching it to the back. As the desert foreground and the mountains in the back never overlap and the level only scrolls horizontally, it works without a hitch.

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It looks like there's more going on than just that. @ 0:25 you can see the acme boxes overlapping two other planes. So it looks like sprites are thrown in there as well to supplement some of the background layering (more than what TF4 is doing).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sengoku 2

I like this, it simulates a true 3 background layer.
Witk Gens K mod, you can activate or not layer A, layer B an sprites.
Start the rom and play.
On the stage 3, you go in the top bar and go to CPU, then Debug and Layer.

Like here :

Attachment 10974


Sprites is just the upper part ( second half ) of the tree trunk on the first layer .

---

As i suspected thanks! I already knew about the GensKmod disable layer funcionality, what I lack is time to play :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magicalsoundshower

Here's this seemingly obscure-ish Speedy Gonzales game, which was apparently developed by none other than French FMV "wizards" Cryo Interactive (anyone who was into PC gaming in the mid-90s probably remembers them for their pretty but ultimately boring games).

The game seems to fake a third layer by reusing BG A and switching it to the back. As the desert foreground and the mountains in the back never overlap and the level only scrolls horizontally, it works without a hitch.

It's a neat trick, but more impressive in games such as Thunder Force 4 or Rocket Knight Adventures.

Plus, that Yogi Bear game in the first post really has that "Euro" look going on. It even looks like it was originally going to be an Amiga game in a ton of places. ;)

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Nice one, like tomaitheous say, the boxes and cactus foreground are sprites, in latest levels they also used pipe sprites for simulates one extra layer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlghfSLfP8

Star Light Zone in Sonic we can see the same trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2egdvEmWSs


P.S.: How i can edit topic title? Written background wrong :?

Unlike from Speed Gonzales, Super Fantasy Zone in first level the pilars and flower columns on first plane are not sprites, they are part of the layer A and overlap the mountains and the far clouds.

skip to 3:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4fMmZozwJs

Overral result are three layers moving at different speeds and overlapping

The layer where game actions happens is Plane A
The lake and mountains are Plane B
The Far sky and cloud are Plane A

Super Fantasy Zone is better looking than the arcade game. Top quality genesis game in all areas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EPSYLON EAGLE

It is very unlikely, the four background layers Super Nes mode only support low color count. Is not very adequate for the Donkey Kong Country high count color configuration, the mostly game stages perform 3 layers (mode 1).

My Genesis game for today is Streets of Rage 1, look to the coconuts trees and outdoors overlapping the city night skyline.

0:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ojTZMCBEgM

Sprites?

---

I really like the parallax in that stage. If only SoR1 played a bit better...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jDmft2H_Po

<<<Pingouim Bleu clever example from promising homebrew, i hope somebody complete the game.

The pines are sprites ; )

Today's game is Gunstar Heroes, this may be the only example that a developer used the window layer in a game situation.

https://j.gifs.com/pgPn52.gif


How creative Treasure was!

Myself I would like to see the opposite. Less backgrounds and more sprites. I always wonder if it had any sence to design the VDP in a way so that you could turn off one background layer and gain some rendering performance / time to get more than just a width of screen for sprites which is totally insufficient for games that are not strictly designed for a smaller number of smaller objects to bounce around the screen. Beat 'em Ups, Shooters, 3D games... they all require more then a width of screen for objects many times...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom M.

Myself I would like to see the opposite. Less backgrounds and more sprites. I always wonder if it had any sence to design the VDP in a way so that you could turn off one background layer and gain some rendering performance / time to get more than just a width of screen for sprites which is totally insufficient for games that are not strictly designed for a smaller number of smaller objects to bounce around the screen. Beat 'em Ups, Shooters, 3D games... they all require more then a width of screen for objects many times...

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Genesis and SNES games already "fake" large sprites using tile layers, to allow more real sprites on-screen without breakup/flicker.

But using a scrolling background for "sprites" is very very restrictive. It would be much more useful to gain real sprites potential by disabling one background completely if it had sence to design VDP this way...

^^^

...and 128 simultaneous colors on screen, it would have been a great graphic mode :)

All that is left to the developers, was to find ways to work around the hardware limitations.

This night game is Mickey Mouse Castle of Illusion - Candyland Stage.

4 overlapp parallax layers, the first is most likely entirely built with sprites.

https://j.gifs.com/8qlyWl.gif

very tight for a early game

Revenge of Shinobi is one oldest Genesis games, the iconic first stage nightfall, makes the moon appear in the black sky back the bamboo line, it is a subtle effect, which adds to the game atmosphere. The moon is a sprite, but have the perfect illusion that the stage moves in 3 layers.

https://j.gifs.com/P1KgOn.gif

I like a lot tile animation effect simulating a third plane. You can see here in the rounded windows from 4:15

https://youtu.be/Xln0a0HIX5Y

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manveru

I like a lot tile animation effect simulating a third plane. You can see here in the rounded windows from 4:15

https://youtu.be/Xln0a0HIX5Y

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Holy hell, what kind of black magic was used for that hack?

Its just overwriting one or more tiles with another ones simulating a scroll, when the main scroll moves.

A easy-to-understand demonstration of the animated tile approach can be seen in Micro Machines for Master System ( which only supports 1 background layer ). It updates / animates 4 tiles ( outlined in green ) to simulate a parallax layer / area ( outlined in red ).

http://i.imgur.com/yslaXBH.png

Here's the effect in motion.

http://i.imgur.com/9BkflC8.gif