Modded PAL MD on Framemeister mini. How do I make it work?...

Anyone here got any experience with modded PAL consoles on a Framemeister mini?...

Just got mine in a few days ago. Yesterday I made an RGB-21 to SCART RGB adapter with audio out and was unfortunate enough to test it with my modded MD first. Not the best way to convince myself this was a good purchase so it seems, lol. After searching the net for a bit I found modded PAL consoles, and in particular the MD are a bit troublesome on the Meister. After changing the sync level from 9 to 16 the image became more stable, but still far from optimal. So I wonder, can I get a perfect picture with this console, or do I really need to buy an NTSC model?...

Anyone with a similar setup, feel free to post your best settings -as thorough as possible please- or a possible fix...

I also know there's a mod that fixes the B&W issue on modded PAL consoles when not using RGB. Would replacing that oscillator do the trick, or is there anything else that sets it apart from a genuine NTSC MD as far as this issue is concerned?...

Just in case anyone is wondering, I also tested the adapter I made with my US NES and the image I got was fine. So nothing wrong with the adapter AFAIK.

Thanks in advance.

Have a look at this link:

http://www.zipplet.co.uk/index.php/c...ronics_mdpal60

I suppose replacing the oscillator in my PAL MD with a 53.6931Mhz one would do the trick?...

That in combination with the region switches would actually turn it into a 'genuine' NTSC console. Right?...

Although I do wonder what happens to the 50Hz PAL signal then when switched to that...

Probably best to add that second oscillator with a switch instead of replacing it.

Thoughts?...

Entirely turning the console NTSC would have similar issues at 50Hz. If nothing else, you'll likely need to use RGB.
NTSC color encoding in 50Hz is not a valid TV standard.

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Originally Posted by lumclaw

Entirely turning the console NTSC would have similar issues at 50Hz. If nothing else, you'll likely need to use RGB.
NTSC color encoding in 50Hz is not a valid TV standard.

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I don't think a modded Genesis would do NTSC 50Hz. I think it would try to go for PAL 50Hz, but be a little off.

You're probably right as far as the result goes. A correct 50 fields per second image, but with the color burst frequency just a little off for PAL.

Hope you don't mind me spewing out thoughts. I learn as I write it down.

This PAL / NTSC , 50Hz / 60Hz, color burst frequency stuff is more confusing than I first thought.

Your mistake made me think though and led me in the right direction. I think. So thank you for that... :p

So I guess it would indeed be best to keep both oscillators with a switch so I can choose the correct color burst frequency both in 50Hz and 60Hz.

The Framemeister doesn't seem to have a problem with PAL 50Hz, so I'd like to keep that option too.

I have a setup like this, but my unit is natively PAL and modded to also output NTSC, I run anything PAL that is Sega related on 720p 50hz. After a lot of tweaking and experimenting with sync and stuff I found that cables make a massive difference; you really do need good cables, check this site out...

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk

... I got the SCART to mini DIN with USB powered sync stripper adapter. This guy posts here, his videos are helpful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwBioaGCDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NJT4cVSAsE

... I really can't stress the importance of cables enough though, I had a setup with switchers and all sorts going on and could not get it to work. I changed out one SCART cable from the switcher to the TV and it solved all my sync issues in a trice. Also, try this little program out, it helped me with callibration a good deal...

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...-and-Dreamcast

... You'll get it sorted, it'll take a while but it really is worth it. The only problem I have encountered is when the Mini has to switch resolutions on the fly; so the Saturn can be a bit of a pig to use on here, and Sonic 2's split screen res is not supported currently. Also, check out the FW details here too...

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm

... To summarise, CABLES, CABLES, CABLES!

Hope you get sorted, if you need profiles I can send you some, but your TV might be different and it could alter things.

Not sure it can compare but I have a PAL SMS II with 50/60Hz switch and via RGB to the XRGB Mini and it works flawlessly
[50hz is PAL at 60hz is PAL60].

I also have an NTSC MD with 50/60Hz and also via RGB works flawlessly
[50hz is NTSC50 (and it doesn't work well obviously, B&W), 60hz is NTSC]

I bought a Scart to JP21 adapter and added an inline sync-stripper on it (LM1881 I assembled myself) and that did the trick on many consoles:
in specific all my SMS, MD and NeoGeo AES sync issue are gone thru the sync stripper.

I wired my sync stripper so I can have either std composite (on the sync line) or sync stripped composite and I can tell you it makes a huge difference (why the XRGB Mini doesn't have a built in one I'll never know, is a 1$ part).

You can read some of my (mis)adventures with the XRGB Mini here:
http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/...32#post-824512

read a few of my posts and you'll see what I mean.

The xrgb wiki recommends using a c-sync RGB cable for the most stable image on a Megadrive. Most SCART cables are wired to use composite instead. You may also need to do a hardware mod since the Megadrive outputs c-sync straight from the VDP instead of using the video encoders c-sync output (which is more stable iirc, though might not be 100% working with 32x).

PAL Megadrive modded to 60hz will not output proper 60hz but some other odd value that the xrgb might not process right.

Also, interlaced resolution is not supported, so Sonic 2 splitscreen will not work.

Guess I'll do both then. Two oscillators and the LM1881.

Thanks for the replies guys. Much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by zyrobs

PAL Megadrive modded to 60hz will not output proper 60hz but some other odd value that the xrgb might not process right.

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It should process it fine. There are only two potential issues that I'm aware of, and one doesn't apply to the Mega Drive:

1) There will be a slight stutter in the video output. It's barely noticeable but it's there.
2) 480i de-interlacing can become screwed up on resolution changes. This is a problem for a modded Saturn but not a Mega Drive. Saturn games which switch between 480i and 240p are a pain on the Framemeister anyway due to the horrible mode change delay.

FWIW, except for the slight stutter and the Sonic 2 issue, my PAL 60Hz modded MD 1 and 32x work perfectly through the Framemeister.

elmagicochrisg:

Did you mod the system yourself, or was it done for you? If it was the latter, have you inspected the mod? I'm just wondering if it the cut traces could perhaps be not quite cut.

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Originally Posted by Silanda

Did you mod the system yourself, or was it done for you? If it was the latter, have you inspected the mod? I'm just wondering if the cut traces could perhaps be not quite cut.

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Yes I did. Don't worry about the mods. I work with a pocket microscope to check my connections in case I don't feel confident about something.

Pocket microscopes. Handy for checking trichomes and PCBs... :mrgreen:

I also use my multimeter to check continuity in some cases.

On another note, I had some company tonight and we decided to test it out on the projector. Worked like a charm. No sync problems with the MD whatsoever.

So I guess some screens really are more picky about signals than others.

Still gonna do the csync mod and second oscillator though. See if that helps with my two monitors.

Only problem I still had on those monitors after upping the sync on the meister was on b&w screens, e.g. black background with white lettering being very unstable.

Oh, and unstable blacks, especially in 60Hz mode. Very light and unstable blacks.

Projector is a Mitsubishi HC7000, and the monitors both iiyamas.

Added a switch to choose between sync on composite and composite sync. Thanks Phoenix for that tip... ^^

Still doesn't help with the washed unstable blacks which probably aren't sync problems, but the rest of the image is stable now with sync off in the menus.

You are a brave one modifying the Mini but I feel like the sync stripper option should have been embedded all along given the much better results.
As I said already I put mine in the JP-21 to Scart adapter and tapped the power from the 5V pin in the Scart used to control switching (so far with no issue).

Thanks to your pics now I know that there's a PIC32MX440F512H in there (MCU 32bit), an Analog Device ADV7441A (dual HDMI receiver etc...), a Xilinx XC3S50A (Spartan3 1.5k LE FPGA), an ITE IT6613 (HDMI transmitter) and the Marvell 88DE2750 QDEO (video converter) ....

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Originally Posted by phoenixdownita

As I said already I put mine in the JP-21 to Scart adapter and tapped the power from the 5V pin in the Scart used to control switching (so far with no issue).

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Couldn't do that since pin 8 on my MD cable was not connected. Guess the less signals going through the cable the better. While I had it open I also changed sync from the composite pin to the clean sync pin on the connector -and added a 75Ω resistor and 220µF capacitor- after which I could turn sync off completely on the Meister since having it on or off made no more difference at this point. For the rest the cable -bought from Retro Computer Shack on eBay- seems to be just fine. They use shielded cable, and in their defense, the sticker on the SCART connector does say 'composite video sync' so I'm pretty sure they also have a retail one with clean sync. I did buy that cable before knowing any of this stuff to be honest.

Anyway, those 53.693175Mhz oscillators came in. I just replaced the original with one of those -no switch yet since pfffrt I didn't feel like it right now- and lo and behold, it did the trick!

Image is much more stable, and black is actually black on 60Hz, not a darker shade of grey. Switching it to 50Hz at this point makes the image look all shitty again though. At least through the Meister. Connected to a CRT directly everything looks just fine. At least when you feed it an RGB signal.

For those who are stuck with a PAL console and don't feel like doing this mod, there is a way to 'hide' the distortions in the blacks to a certain level. The Meister's black level is factory set to 0 (out of 49). Set it to 1 or 2 and you should already see a big difference. Setting it to 6 or higher and the distortions should be blacked out to the point that you will barely notice them. Should do the trick for the less anal Meister users amongst us... lol

But yeah, success. Happy camper in the house... ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phoenixdownita

Thanks to your pics now I know that there's a PIC32MX440F512H in there (MCU 32bit), an Analog Device ADV7441A (dual HDMI receiver etc...), a Xilinx XC3S50A (Spartan3 1.5k LE FPGA), an ITE IT6613 (HDMI transmitter) and the Marvell 88DE2750 QDEO (video converter) ....

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Glad I could help... lol