I posted this in Gameshack topic first, but I want to give it more exposure, because I would very much like to know it's answer.
My theory is still that the West still hasn't grasped how to do gameplay good enough yet. But haven't played enough modern games to know for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
The West has been making great games since the very beginning of the medium. For modern stuff:
Play The Witcher III for an RPG.
Play 3DS Shinobi for an action/platformer.
Play STALKER Call of Pripyat for an action/adventure.
Play Tesla Effect for a graphic adventure game.
Play Resogun for a shooter.
Play Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed for a racing game.
Play Portal 2 for a puzzle game.
^ I'm certain you've misunderstand me... I mean, I never knew Witcher was renowned for their gameplay or had great gameplay to begin with (I played very briefly part II that I own and it seemed like an over convoluted mess typical of "made in the West gameplay" mold, thus doubt they all of a sudden got it right by part III. But I could be wrong since I only played part 2 briefly and non of part 3, so just a hunch on my part).
I was certain that Sonic racing game was made by the East, looked it up, and surely enough, it's made by Sumo Digital; location - Tokyo Japan. ie. Made in the East by the East.
And a graphics adventure game has gameplay prowess too these days?!?! Now I know for sure you're not getting my drift.
The only games on your list that I recognize as maybe legit, are Portal 2, Resogun and that I guess maybe even 3DS Shinobi. But again, just a guess on my part as I haven't played these games either. Just heard the two Portal games seem to be the rage these days and I think them two games are heavily gameplay based... Resogun is supposedly a spiritual sequel to Stadust, so maybe...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Vanquish vs. Gears of War seems like a legit comparison, but I don't feel that Mass Effect belongs in that category. It's an RPG that has battle elements very similar to those 2 games, but it's much more than a 3rd person shooter. Combat is not necessarily the main focus of Mass Effect.Quote:
Anyway, I'm still very much interested in who is better at doing gameplay with the West VS the East these days. But you guys are really lacking focus, so here, let me help by showing some very similar games from both ends;
EAST VS WEST;
Vanquish VS Gears of War/Mass Effect Trilogy
Dragons Dogma VS anyother Elder Scrolls game/clone
Zelda VS Darksiders 1 & 2
and so on...
Also, look from gameplay and gameplay design and balance perspective. As in, I don't care about the game's graphics, lore or music.
Dragon's Dogma appears to play more like an MMO, than a free roaming adventure RPG like Skyrim. The game is more focused on combat, while Skyrim's design is more about exploring and interacting. A game like World of Warcraft is probably a better comparison, though still a bit different. Diablo 3 is a better fit, but the player perspective is different, as well as the areas being more confined.
I don't know if you can really compare Zelda to Darksiders. Darksiders certainly has better play mechanics (if that is your sole focus) and a more diverse combat system, while Zelda is more about puzzle solving and light combat.
It's a matter of taste. I've yet to see a real-time strategy game from the East that compares to Warcraft, or StarCraft. And the East certainly hasn't made an FPS that competes with the best that the West has to offer.Quote:
My theory is still that the West still hasn't grasped how to do gameplay good enough yet. But haven't played enough modern games to know for sure.
^ Thanks for your input. They sound legit enough too me.
PS - fps games have gameplay depth? And the East actually made an fps? Both news to me.
Yeah, Japan made a few attempts at the genre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
http://kotaku.com/5911355/its-true-j...ters-do-exist/
Micronet also released the horrible Robotica for the Saturn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronet_co.,_Ltd.
Yes, there are FPS games that have depth. The Fear series is not your typical FPS game, as well as the Bioshock series.
Outtrigger is another Japanese FPS. Yu Suzuki's attempt to do an arena style game on the heels of Quake III and Unreal Tournament's popularity.
Edit: Nevermind I said that before even looking at that article.
This year's Splatoon has to be one of the best Japanese shooters yet... it's third-person and not first, but same basic thing. That and Vanquish are probably about as good as Japanese attempts at first or third person shooters get. By all accounts they're pretty good, but probably don't quite match the best Western first or third person shooters.
As for Robotica though, a few more Japanese games with some similarities to that one are Space Griffon VF-9 (PS1, also has a Japan-only Dreamcast remake) and the two Japan-only Crime Crackers games for PS1, which have more RPG elements (experience, levels, items, etc.) but also shooting. And Robotica isn't horrible, just mediocre, in my opinion.
As for Outtrigger... nice try, Sega, but the postage-stamp sized levels are far too small.
I get he was trying to make it a bite-sized arcade experience but I wasn't a fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Black Falcon
There's also Maken X if that counts. First person sword-er. Not a fan of that either but I know it has its fans.
Whats the point of trying to start a discussion if you're just going "yeah err no." You haven't even played Witcher III.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
The Witcher 3 is a massive improvement over the previous two games, so definitely needs to be checked out.
overall the west make most amazing games in general but the absolute top for me is still japan. japan has most attention for detail and no glitches and bugs in their games. for instance look at metal gear solid 5. the reviewing world couldn't believe a sandbox game could exist without any bugs, glitches or patches
Sumo Digital (the video game developer) is in Sheffield, England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Adventure games have puzzles. Puzzles are gameplay.Quote:
And a graphics adventure game has gameplay prowess too these days?!?! Now I know for sure you're not getting my drift.
You won't recognize STALKER, why? You might want to actually play games before judging them. Your entire view of gaming seems to be based on assuming shit.Quote:
The only games on your list that I recognize as maybe legit, are Portal 2, Resogun and that I guess maybe even 3DS Shinobi.
Because I can very easily tell you're not comparing games from the perspective I'm asking for. But I blame myself for not being able to explain properly (the other problem is nobody else looks in depth at this perspective). But lucky I recall somebody else giving a very good example of basically what I'm asking for in this article. Please read it;Quote:
Originally Posted by Gogogadget
source; http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shoot...to-2d-shootersQuote:
Euroshmup ” Casually serves as a designation for any shooter created in (duh) Europe, but more specifically references a particular design mentality especially prolific among Commodore-era developers; the connotation is usually negative. While these games’ detailed hand-drawn artwork often elicits praise, other elements have rarely received as much time or attention – weaponry is by turns either over- or underpowered, enemy patterns repeat too frequently, movement is sometimes hobbled by inertia, and damage is frequently unavoidable, prompting many to tack on health/shield meters in a half-hearted attempt to compensate. While not all “Euroshmups” are roundly detested by the fan community (Soldner-X 2’s recent release was pretty well-received), the word tends to set many denizens on edge.
Now in that example above is only when comparing that one genre back in it's heyday. But back during NES-32 Bit era, I still seen games made outside of Japan lack much more in actual gameplay/level design & balance by comparison. ie. When some Japan guys got shoved on on STI to work on Sonic 2, it came out almost like a made in Japan quality gameplay videogame. But take away those Japanese guys, and all other STI games came out more then a little rough around the edges in the gameplay department.
And in the other thread you wrongfully accused me of saying I think Fallout 3 sucks. No. I love Fallout 3. Why I have it for both 360 and PS3 (ditto for owning dupes of Skyrim, Oblivion, New Vegas). But the actual gameplay in that game is typical Western made balls that's only there as cheesy feel good filler with shock value any dumbass casual would go crazy over for the rest of the game to make them oversee any issues while they drown in awesome lore and atmosphere. And that's what I meant by "sucks." Otherwise I love the heck out of that game. But because it lacks gameplay, it gets boring much faster once you experience most of it's awesome lore, atmosphere and exploration... sadly, that's also all RPGs in a nutshell...
You know, I actually looked it up yesterday on wiki and it said Tokyo Japan. Looked it up today, and it says what you've said. Looked up the names of some of the guys on that team, and I don't see one Japanese name on there. Says also this is where some old member of Gremlin ended up in. That I find interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
I looked up some footage of that Adventure game and it looked like an FMV game... I honestly don't know what else to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
As for Stalker, yeah. Sorry. I don't recall hearing it. And I've said I've barely played modern games even thought I own a about 1000 games for 360, PS3, DS and PSP - it's basically still one massive do do list at this point... why I'm asking for you guys to compare this topic for me. Me. You can look at me as a moderator in this thread. Overseeing that you guys keep things on topic. :D