Newfangled Zelda is as Bad as Modern Sonic, you know...

Aonuma Zelda games are just... bad. Wind Waker was an atrocity. Why the cel-shaded art, when Nintendo presented a plausible evolution of a prior style? What use is sailing? Why are there so many damn puzzles? Sure, old Zelda games had them, but they did not take over the entire damn game. Why is Tingle still here? Tingle is a terrible character. TP was better, but was followed up by the even worse Skyward Sword, which destroyed Link's character. It was also accompanied by crappy handheld Zelda games. Aonuma's big problem is his puzzle addiction, followed by the random ideas, and then Tingle.

Nintendo are even hypocrites about Tingle. They keep putting him everywhere even though non-Japanese rightfully despise him, but they keep Krystal out even though non-Japanese love her.

Wow, where to start. OK here goes.....fuck off and die with your shit opinions ;)

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Originally Posted by Crystalpepsifan

Wow, where to start. OK here goes.....fuck off and die with your shit opinions ;)

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It is fine. I have a FACT to back me up.

Wind Waker sold poorly and killed the Gamecube. HD version did not have a large backlash, but that is because the Zelda fans gave up.

no comment..

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Originally Posted by miru

It is fine. I have a FACT to back me up.

Wind Waker sold poorly and killed the Gamecube. HD version did not have a large backlash, but that is because the Zelda fans gave up.

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How do poor sales equate to a bad game? Plenty of great games have sold poorly. So, ahem....fuck off and die ;)

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Originally Posted by Crystalpepsifan

How do poor sales equate to a bad game? Plenty of great games have sold poorly. So, ahem....fuck off and die ;)

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Most Zelda fans despised it and were dissapointed in bad graphics and Aonuma puzzles. The mainstream even mocked it.

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Originally Posted by miru

Aonuma Zelda games are just... bad. Wind Waker was an atrocity. Why the cel-shaded art, when Nintendo presented a plausible evolution of a prior style?

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It looked like a cartoon you can control, at a time when no other game looked that good.

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What use is sailing?

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The same use as horseback riding. Mobility between sections of the world.

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Why are there so many damn puzzles? Sure, old Zelda games had them, but they did not take over the entire damn game.

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Yes they did, and Wind Waker suffered due to a lack of dungeons and puzzles.

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Why is Tingle still here? Tingle is a terrible character. TP was better, but was followed up by the even worse Skyward Sword, which destroyed Link's character.

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Skyward Sword tried to shoehorn character development in Skyloft that didn't end up mattering at all anyway, onto a 3 stage Zelda game you needed to backtrack through. Link never really had character traits to ruin. Tingle was a gimmick to get you to fuck around with the GBA. An optional gameplay gimmick. Welcome to the world of Nintendo.

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It was also accompanied by crappy handheld Zelda games. Aonuma's big problem is his puzzle addiction, followed by the random ideas, and then Tingle.

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Again, you're insane. Puzzles make Zelda what they are. Random ideas make the series worth playing. Who the fuck cares about Tingle?

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Nintendo are even hypocrites about Tingle. They keep putting him everywhere even though non-Japanese rightfully despise him, but they keep Krystal out even though non-Japanese love her.

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Krystal? The aborted Dinosaur Planet turned Star Fox Adventures furry character that nobody gives a shit about? Right. All of us non-Japanese love her. :roll:


The reason modern Zelda games are weak, is that Nintendo caters to the childish baby's-first-game, tutorial packed routine. It lacks critical thinking skills, which could also stem from the fact that the games were designed for children in the first place and people who have grown up with the series are already too well equipped to play the new games. Life's a bitch, and so is the retarded Nintendo fan base.

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Originally Posted by miru

Most Zelda fans despised it and were dissapointed in bad graphics and Aonuma puzzles. The mainstream even mocked it.

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Uh huh.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

It looked like a cartoon you can control, at a time when no other game looked that good.



The same use as horseback riding. Mobility between sections of the world.



Yes they did, and Wind Waker suffered due to a lack of dungeons and puzzles.



Skyward Sword tried to shoehorn character development in Skyloft that didn't end up mattering at all anyway, onto a 3 stage Zelda game you needed to backtrack through. Link never really had character traits to ruin. Tingle was a gimmick to get you to fuck around with the GBA. An optional gameplay gimmick. Welcome to the world of Nintendo.



Again, you're insane. Puzzles make Zelda what they are. Random ideas make the series worth playing. Who the fuck cares about Tingle?



Krystal? The aborted Dinosaur Planet turned Star Fox Adventures furry character that nobody gives a shit about? Right. All of us non-Japanese love her. :roll:


The reason modern Zelda games are weak, is that Nintendo caters to the childish baby's-first-game, tutorial packed routine.

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Nice points. Doesn't really excuse Tingle...

Doesn't excuse Tingle from what?


It's an insignificant character that is designed to be offbeat and fucked up, for comic relief. Like the Happy Mask Salesman.

Cell shaded Zelda should of looked like this;

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100508205329

And not this garbage;

http://www.justpushstart.com/wp-cont...D-Featured.jpg


So I stand by OP. New Zelda is trash.

I've been a Nintendo kid since 1985, I got my NES from the NYC launch. I got Zelda when it was brand new.

I have nothing left for that company. The reason the modern games are trash, is because they follow a formula and cater exactly to people like Miru here. Less puzzles, less random ideas, more of the same old shit for people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground about game design, or what they actually want.

Those are some -- interesting arguments in the first post, but I'll play along. ;)

Things that annoy me the most about Aonuma Zelda games:

- stealth sections
- that super annoying, like one second long "Inside a building" music loop
- Minigames you have to play in order to progress

I definitely prefer 2D to 3D Zelda and it looks like there isn't a single major 3D Zelda game without something that I really dislike about it:

• Ocarina of Time feels empty and sterile to me, it's a good game with good dungeons, but nothing I like to revisit
• Majora's Mask made a game out of what Zelda was never really that great at: Puzzles between dungeons
• Wind Waker seems like a blast at first but after a couple hours, the cut corners become really apparent
• Twilight Princess takes forever to get going and feels comical in its "GO HERE" linearity at times. Still, it's my favorite 3D Zelda game
• Skyward Sword I haven't played but it appears to make you play through every location twice to pad out the game, which is a shame because it looks beautiful

Out of the newer handheld games, Phantom Hourglass has the honor of being the only game I ever sold, and A Link Between Worlds is decent (and in a way, the game teenage me dreamed about for years), but in some regard, Aonuma-fies one of my favorite games ever.

I can't wait to learn what will be terrible about the new Wii U Zelda.

So yeah, I feel a little better now. ;)

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Originally Posted by miru

It is fine. I have a FACT to back me up.

Wind Waker sold poorly and killed the Gamecube. HD version did not have a large backlash, but that is because the Zelda fans gave up.

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Wind Waker is the 4th best selling game for the Gamecube. How did it kill anything? The HD version didn't have a large backlash because it was made for Wii U, which is a dead platform that had no other big games to play, and nobody around to really give a shit.

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Originally Posted by magicalsoundshower

[*]Ocarina of Time feels empty and sterile to me, it's a good game with good dungeons, but nothing I like to revisit

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Not sure the exact reason for me, maybe the same as yours, but I've never had the urge to replay OoT even once since buying at release for Christmas. I did beat it right away, but once I did, I never wanted to return to OoT. Ever. So why so many consider this the best Zelda is a mystery to me.

I never liked the zelda games. especially after ALTTP. The nes games were ok, definitely not for kids as the difficulty was fairly high and not a whole lot of information was conveyed to the player during game play, forcing you to kind of figure it out.

i played wind waker, meh. twilight princess looked cool but that fairy always bugging you really annoyed me.

My guess is that OoT was super impressive back when it was new. I was a PC-only gamer back then -- I did know a couple people who owned N64s but none of them owned OoT -- and didn't get to play Ocarina of Time until much, much later.

In my opinion the game was too ambitious for the hardware and it ended up hurting it. Compare the snoozefest that is Hyrule Field to the non-stop action in the 2D Zelda games, for instance. I own and have beaten the 3D re-release but the prettier coat of paint didn't really fix the issues I have with the game. It's still more enjoyable than Majora's Mask, though.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

The HD version didn't have a large backlash because it was made for Wii U, which is a dead platform that had no other big games to play, and nobody around to really give a shit.

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There's also the fact that people have come to appreciate it's art style in later years, and the fact that the HD version is flat out gorgeous:

It looks nice in some ways, but the overuse of bloom kills the flat cel-shaded look.

WW is a forgettable Zelda game outside of its art-style. Boring dungeons, lackluster bosses, pathetic difficulty, cut content*... People were right to be disappointed. Aonuma's "style" has slid in quality over the years. I know he was only a "producer" (but it's clear he had a lot of influence on the game), but Skyward Sword is the first main Zelda title I just didn't finish. It compounded every single problem that had been building up since WW into one awful package (long-ass tutorial, lame story, insulting handholding and difficulty - now wedded to awful controls!).

*I remember when Aonuma said that he believed people thought that WW was unfinished due to the in-game "architecture" and how he would resolve those problems with the HD release. HA HA HA. Good one Aonuma.

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Originally Posted by miru

It is fine. I have a FACT to back me up.

Wind Waker sold poorly *Which I think you're talking out of your ass honestly* and killed the Gamecube. HD version did not have a large backlash, but that is because the Zelda fans gave up.

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The fact the game sold poorly doesn't mean I myself and a lot of other folks didn't enjoy it. I enjoyed Wind Waker and the HD Remake I tore thru 100% as well. It's not a Zelda for everyone I know but a terrible game? I could name off a ton of games like Zelda that were way worse then Wind Waker.

Also the handheld Zelda games like Link's Awakening and The Minnish Cap were amazing little handheld titles. Oh and if you're really saying a Link between Worlds is bad also then I know you're smoking something.

I'm seriously thinking this thread was created with the sole purpose of being troll bail.

I don't know if they're as bad as modern Sonic, what I do know is that modern Zelda has killed my enthusiasm for this series.

Horrible gimmicks that do nothing to move the series forward in a meaningful way, lackluster overworld design, no sense of adventure, below average swordplay, LOTS of padding, complete lack of challenge, streamlined dungeons, shitty cut-scenes, horrendous pacing issues, ridiculous amount of handholding and a boring puzzle-centric direction, aimed at casual players, that is completely unexciting to me. Golden Axe Warrior is better than all modern Zelda games combined.

I also can't stand this happy-go-lucky vibe of modern Zelda when it comes to presentation. I prefer the Tolkien-style Zelda of the NES-era and the awesome atmosphere of Ocarina of Time in areas like the forest temple.

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Originally Posted by Loggo

I don't know if they're as bad as modern Sonic, what I do know is that modern Zelda has killed my enthusiasm for this series.

Horrible gimmicks that do nothing to move the series forward in a meaningful way, lackluster overworld design, no sense of adventure, below average swordplay, LOTS of padding, complete lack of challenge, streamlined dungeons, shitty cut-scenes, horrendous pacing issues, ridiculous amount of handholding and a boring puzzle-centric direction, aimed at casual players, that is completely unexciting to me. Golden Axe Warrior is better than all modern Zelda games combined.

I also can't stand this happy-go-lucky vibe of modern Zelda when it comes to presentation. I prefer the Tolkien-style Zelda of the NES-era and the awesome atmosphere of Ocarina of Time in areas like the forest temple.

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You gotta admit Twilight Princess seemed pretty dark for a Zelda game.

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

You gotta admit Twilight Princess seemed pretty dark for a Zelda game.

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Yeah, it was probably the darkest Zelda game.

But Twilight Princess felt "dark" in the most juvenile of ways IMO. It's the kid who tries to be cool by dressing like an emo. Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, or the adult part of Ocarina, are less "dark" than Twilight Princess, but everything is done in an elegant, non-juvenile, way. Twilight Princess was the perfect game for insecure teens who want something to be dark for the sake of being dark.

I really wish Nintendo had let the Metroid Prime team make a Zelda game back then. It probably would have been amazing.

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Originally Posted by magicalsoundshower

Those are some -- interesting arguments in the first post, but I'll play along. ;)

Things that annoy me the most about Aonuma Zelda games:

- stealth sections
- that super annoying, like one second long "Inside a building" music loop
- Minigames you have to play in order to progress

I definitely prefer 2D to 3D Zelda and it looks like there isn't a single major 3D Zelda game without something that I really dislike about it:

• Ocarina of Time feels empty and sterile to me, it's a good game with good dungeons, but nothing I like to revisit
• Majora's Mask made a game out of what Zelda was never really that great at: Puzzles between dungeons
• Wind Waker seems like a blast at first but after a couple hours, the cut corners become really apparent
• Twilight Princess takes forever to get going and feels comical in its "GO HERE" linearity at times. Still, it's my favorite 3D Zelda game
• Skyward Sword I haven't played but it appears to make you play through every location twice to pad out the game, which is a shame because it looks beautiful

Out of the newer handheld games, Phantom Hourglass has the honor of being the only game I ever sold, and A Link Between Worlds is decent (and in a way, the game teenage me dreamed about for years), but in some regard, Aonuma-fies one of my favorite games ever.

I can't wait to learn what will be terrible about the new Wii U Zelda.

So yeah, I feel a little better now. ;)

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It's amazing how similar our opinions are on this matter, word for word really. Except for the "after a couple of hours" bit on wind waker. It doesn't take that long to tell.
I'd also add the horrible hand-holding to the list of bad things about modern zelda games.

And I definitely don't get the complain about too many puzzles in Wind Waker. Not enough and not good enough is more like it.

EDIT: The darkest Zelda is obviously Majora's Mask

EDIT: One thing I agree with miru is that A link between worlds is kinda bad. Well, not terrible but boy is it overrated. The new way it handles items is not good, at all, takes away half of what makes zelda fun.

Don't worry, Kamahl, you've got good taste is all! ;-)

What I found most disappointing about A Link Between Worlds is that it doesn't seem to have an equivalent to the awesome Hyrule Castle segment which really starts the original off with a bang. And then, there's that "Modern Zelda" trademark stealth section in the Dark World which (surprise!) isn't fun in the slightest.

I'm still gonna finish it one of these days, though. One thing it has going for it is that it looks so much better in motion than it does in screenshots and it controls really smooth.

I loved the 2D Zeldas, but haven't had much interest in the 3D games. However, I haven't even played the newer ones yet. I've only played Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.
Ocarina of Time is a game I want to get back in to, but it didn't impress me before. I got stuck for a long time in the first town trying to find the equipment you're required to find. Other tutorial junk rapidly annoyed me and wore down my interest in the game. I just want to turn on the game and play it, but modern game designers always feel the need to get in the way.
Finally did the first dungeon. It's okay, but 3D platforming is not one of my favorite things.
Then I was allowed to enter the world. My favorite thing to do in the 2D Zeldas (most especially Zelda 1) was to explore and wander the overworld. In Ocarina, the sense of adventure is lost. I can see everything long before I get there, and it's mostly open space. There seems to be hardly anything interesting to find and just a few overworld areas.
It's not like in Zelda1 and 3 where you go from screen to screen discovering new places with every transition, and wondering about possible secrets just about anywhere.

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I only played a little of Majora's Mask, partly because I wanted to do Ocarina first. It seemed like a cool concept, but when the novelty wears off I'm not sure I'll have enough interest to stick with it very far.

I have Wind Waker, but still haven't tried it.

Well, nothing can be as bad as Modern Sonic so your topic is factually, scientifically proved, 100% wrong.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

There's also the fact that people have come to appreciate it's art style in later years, and the fact that the HD version is flat out gorgeous:

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Who cares is folks are coming around to Wind Waker art style. The point is that it could of be way, way, way, way, way, way, way BEETTTTEEERRR!!! Stop accepting garbage art so that quality art can thrive.

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

Oh and if you're really saying a Link between Worlds is bad also then I know you're smoking something.

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The biggest problem with LttP was it's difficulty, or lack of. You'd think they'd of fixed or added an extra difficulty level/second quest for long time fans of LttP. But nope. Because Nintendo don't care about its past Nintendo fans (biggest issue with Nintendo right now). Thus LbW sucks too, because it could of been a lot better. Instead it's aimed at under 10 year kids, like every other stupid Nintendo game these days.

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Originally Posted by Loggo

Yeah, it was probably the darkest Zelda game.

But Twilight Princess felt "dark" in the most juvenile of ways IMO. It's the kid who tries to be cool by dressing like an emo. Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, or the adult part of Ocarina, are less "dark" than Twilight Princess, but everything is done in an elegant, non-juvenile, way. Twilight Princess was the perfect game for insecure teens who want something to be dark for the sake of being dark.

I really wish Nintendo had let the Metroid Prime team make a Zelda game back then. It probably would have been amazing.

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Too bad I can't rep you again back to back.

I played and finished Crusader of Centy long before I ever got my hands on LttP and completed it (with a big yawn to boot). Before that, I had only seen people play LttP. I was a fan of the simplicity of the original NES Zelda and to some extent Link's Awakening on GB, but for the most part did not give a shit about the franchise. I hate to say it, but despite the fact that LttP had more content and playtime, I found Centy immensely more enjoyable and the story made a bigger impression on me at the time than the generic plot of LttP which didn't even attempt anything resembling character development or story besides a stupid save the Princess fiasco. Centy's plot actually had somewhat of a moral behind it, which was commendable for something of that caliber.

I agree Zelda's franchise has stagnated. The Japanese gaming industry is drying up. Even with all the 3DS owners in Japan, the sales are still lackluster compared to how much is invested into the Puzzle & Dragons/Monster Strike properties. I don't think Nintendo NX is going to save Nintendo from going bottom up hardware wise. They're not doing anything to compete effectively with current trends outside the country. Most Japanophile gamers are centered towards the retro era where they were actually relevant and in fact still outshine most of today's creepy indie games. Nintendo is going to go the way of SEGA, by being a third party developer. But even still, they'll probably rehash a lot of old franchises until people are sick of them and stop buying them. SEGA can only survive now by being a publisher or funding projects to publish by western makers. Sonic is a good example of oversaturation as is every retro compilation SEGA has put out. You have to remember that even in their heydey, most non-Sonic franchises by SEGA were niche and short lived. I do sincerely believe people are getting fed up with Sonic since the lackluster success of Sonic Boom. Most of those whose interest was fueled by nostalgia from Sonic's golden age are realizing slowly but surely and taking note that it's all a joke. Live and let die, and learn to adapt to changes that are happening. I don't give a rat's ass about these companies because their time is up. There'll always be something to look forward to in one way or another, even if the titles we want to satisfy our niche with are few and far between. They'll be there.

As for me, I'll just keep rocking my Genesis and EverDrive.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around Zelda Wind Waker "Killing" the Gamecube.

It was the pack-in game that made me buy that lunch box with the horrible controller.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around Zelda Wind Waker "Killing" the Gamecube.

It was the pack-in game that made me buy that lunch box with the horrible controller.

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It's funny how Nintendo still makes horrible controllers.

Wind Waker sold close to 5 million on the GCN. How is that poor?

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Originally Posted by JCU

Wind Waker sold close to 5 million on the GCN. How is that poor?

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It's poor because Tingle isn't a furry dog chick with a pair of tits, or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Thief

It's funny how Nintendo still makes horrible controllers.

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Gives the Classic Controller analog triggers.

Immediately removes the analog triggers in Classic Controller Pro.

I don't know what you're smoking, but Wind Waker was great. Only complaint I have with it was the tedious sailing, other than that, it's a great game.

And comparing Zelda to the current shitstain that is the Sonic series? Boy, you are on drugs. Or trolling. I'll go with the latter.

count me in on Wind Waker Defense Force, OP is wrong

SS needed work though, next one better change things up (as it's looking to)

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Originally Posted by JCU

Wind Waker sold close to 5 million on the GCN. How is that poor?

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This is not any franchise we're talking about: with something like Fatal Fury or Freedom Planet, 5 million is a hit. This is Zelda. STINKIN' ZELDA! Older Zelda games outsold WW by a vast margin up until Skyward Sword totaled the series.

do you think those zelda game sales were maybe affected by GCN selling like used diapers and the wii having thoroughly fallen off a cliff long before SS made it out the gate or nah

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Originally Posted by miru

This is not any franchise we're talking about: with something like Fatal Fury or Freedom Planet, 5 million is a hit. This is Zelda. STINKIN' ZELDA! Older Zelda games outsold WW by a vast margin up until Skyward Sword totaled the series.

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Why the fuck do you keep bringing up that mediocre fan fiction trash game Freedom Planet? It only sold around 200k, so fuck yeah 5 million is a hit. No shit, bud.

http://steamspy.com/app/248310


Guess what! Only 3 games in the "STINKIN' ZELDA" franchise sold more than 5 million copies.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda

https://sickr.files.wordpress.com/20...ment_zelda.png