Nintendo, What went wrong

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06-29-2016, 07:22 PM
Gogogadget

Those old CRPG's using graph paper is basically a requirement for some of them.

Or looking up maps online, but thats the 2016 DosBox experience
06-29-2016, 07:36 PM
Thief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

Pretty much all RPG/Adventure type games up until 2000 or so.

I take you weren't playing games back then because you're a babby?

But the 90s was my fave gaming era. Sensing my mom play games from her womb turned me into a gaming addict at birth.

I guess the advantage of being a baby is that learning new tricks is much easier. Brains are still developing for babies, after all, so it must be much easier for us to map things out via memory alone.
06-29-2016, 07:55 PM
Thief

But lets get serious here for a moment. Why do you guys think a no map Super Metroid hack even exists? Any guesses?

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/752/

"This series of patches hides all automap features from the games, providing a challenge to the player, and a greater sense of exploration that’s been absent since the first two Metroids."
06-29-2016, 09:07 PM
Gogogadget

Damn masochists, I find Metroid 1 close to unplayable
06-29-2016, 09:38 PM
Thief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Damn masochists, I find Metroid 1 close to unplayable

Pity. It's one of the greatest games of all time.
06-29-2016, 09:54 PM
gamevet

Quote:

Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

The problem with your argument is that you are defending a genre that is absolutely filled with horrible and cliche ridden games, tons of cutscenes, and stale battle systems while simultaneously claiming you hate a whole selection of games you haven't even played by attacking them for the exact same reasons.

The apologize comment was dumb I agree, but you are doing yourself a disservice for not even giving a slew of well regarded games a try.
.

I meant it as a dick comment, because he used the sorry old cliché of the game being nothing more than a story told through cut-scenes. Just as you have pointed out above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I'd much rather own Mass Effect on PC. The game is fine with Keyboard and Mouse set up. I played the third on the Wii U and I'd say it was the best controlling console version due to it having the ability to have additional buttons on the touch screen. I can't see it playing any better with less buttons on the PS4/XB1. As for paying $60, you can get it when it goes on sale inevitably.

I'm not paying $60 for a digital copy of any PC game. I did that once with Star Wars Battlefront, because I had $40 of Origin credit sitting around.

I can buy the PS4 version, finish the game and sell it for 75% of what I'd paid for it. When the PC version hits $20 with all of the DLC, then it makes sense to buy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

You mean like how in the first, second, and third Resident Evils you need to play with ammo conservation in mind, know which enemies to shoot, which to run from, how to plan your route from one side of the area to the other, etc.? That's not redefining the Survival Horror genre, it's simply taking what's been done and putting the Sony AAA coat of paint on it. I don't care how many times you say it's art or the best game of the generation. It doesn't appeal to me. Nothing I see in it looks like something I want to play. I don't play games to be "enriched" by B-Movie quality plots playing off as Art. I play them to have fun and enjoy myself.

For example, compare the first 30 minutes of the Last of Us to the first 30 minutes of any Resident Evil. The Last of US starts off with 30 minutes of cutscenes and walking around with gameplay that looks to be about as fun as watching paint dry. Meanwhile Resident Evil gives you maybe a 5 minute intro to set up the premise and then immediately drops you into exploring and dealing with zombies however you see fit. Meanwhile in The Last of Us when you finally do get to some action it's brief, and on top of it all if you try to actually have some fun with it, the game punishes you. That's not a very good way to get me interested in a game and have me want to keep playing it.

The Last of Us does not start out with 30 minutes of cut scenes. It starts out with a 5 minute moment between Joel and his daughter giving him his birthday gift (a watch) and then him putting her to bed. The game then it cuts to Joel's daughter waking up in her bedroom. You wander around the house as his daughter, trying to figure out where Joel is. After about 10 minutes of wandering around the house, you get to a sliding glass door where the infected neighbor comes breaking through. Joel shows up, trying to talk some sense into his now crazy neighbor, before finally shooting him in the head. A massive explosion happens several miles away and military helicopters and personnel start swooping into the town to isolate the incident. Joel's brother shows up and they are forced to proceed on foot, as traffic comes to a standstill and infected people start running rampant. The military is now considering the whole town a casualty and everyone is pretty much to be shot on site. Joel and his daughter get separated from his brother and end up being confronted by a military member with intent to kill. *Skipping what ensues there*...... we are flashed forward to 20 years after the outbreak, where the survivors are either contained within military quarantine zones, or are our running about for survival of the fittest. You're encounters with the infected throughout the game is about 30%, while the rest is with different factions that are either on your side, you think they are on your side, but they aren't, or the last group, that is just the worst example of humanity you can think of.

Resource management in Resident Evil is much simpler than that of TLOU. You pretty much scrounge for cloth scraps, bullets, arrows, alcohol, metal blades and weapons. There is no weapons dealer trading you goods for treasures you've found. You have to find work benches to assemble weapons, like shivs, and things like bandages and explosives share many resources forcing you to decide weather you want to make a bomb, a molitov cocktail or a means to heal yourself. You actually have to think about the situation and the possibility of not having any sort of weapon to make your way through an area.

I'm liking what I've played of Resident Evil VII demo, because it appears to be a change for the better of the franchise. The old ways have pretty much been played to death, and that is why I stopped at RE5 and never even thought about getting 6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Like what? Most of what I'm seeing seems to be derivative of other popular games. Uncharted looks to be a more cinematic Tomb Raider. Last of Us takes that game play, and adds Resident Evil elements but somehow makes it look to be more boring than both games it derived from.

When Uncharted came out, it was way more than just a cinematic Tomb Raider. I think you're also overlooking that the original Tomb Raider had a lot of cut-scenes in between levels. The play mechanics in the original Tomb Raider also sucked pretty bad, with tank controls to turn Laura around. The new Tomb Riader borrowed heavily from what Uncharted did to improve what was so bad about Tomb Raider, and in turn, the latest Tomb Raiders are now better than Uncharted.

Quote:

Yet you're excited about Mass Effect 4 and obviously got Uncharted 4 from your signature. Why are those sequels ok but Mario Kart 8 isn't? Mario Kart 8 may be the 8th Mario Kart game after 25 years, but its a very well polished racer that has new mechanics that makes it play quite differently from previous Mario Kart games. New mechanics like Anti-Gravity, Fire-Hopping, Bump-Boosting, etc. make the game play quite differently and require you to figure out new ways to get through new and old courses as fast as you can. Not to mention it's Multiplayer gold.

I'm excited about Mass Effect 4, because I like the lore and the setting, and I'm not burned out on it yet. I don't think I can handle another Uncharted game at this point, because after replaying 1 & 2 HD on the PS4, along with Uncharted 4, I have no immediate desire to go back and play Uncharted 3 HD. I even suggested that you sell your Uncharted bundle and get the superior TLOU. And speaking of the New Tomb Raider, it too borrows from the stealth from TLOU.

I didn't enjoy playing Mario Kart Double Dash or Mario Kart 64. I did enjoy the original on the SNES. I can get some enjoyment out of those Kart games, but that style of racer wears thin on me pretty quick.

I used to think that the Mario platform games were pretty fun. I enjoyed all 3 SMB games on the NES, along with Super Mario World on the SNES and SM64. I also liked playing Sunshine on the Gamecube, but after a while it all starts to become a lot of the same old, same old. There's only so much of that I can play before it become monotonous. I got burned out on Final Fantasy as well, along with most turned based RPGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

Pretty much all RPG/Adventure type games up until 2000 or so.

I take you weren't playing games back then because you're a babby?

I still have my old graph paper maps from The Bard's Tale.
06-29-2016, 11:03 PM
Thief

I don't know about you guys, but I loved my experience with The Last of Us very, very much. Sucked that game experience had to end sometime. Surprisingly I even died a ton too during that one and only playthrough like I was playing some old school trial and error videogame. Guess I wasn't near as experienced with 3rd person shooters at that time as I am now. I also totally specced my character completely wrong because I had no idea I couldn't be able to max everything out by end game.
06-30-2016, 09:01 AM
Gentlegamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thief

But lets get serious here for a moment. Why do you guys think a no map Super Metroid hack even exists? Any guesses?

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/752/

"This series of patches hides all automap features from the games, providing a challenge to the player, and a greater sense of exploration that’s been absent since the first two Metroids."

To make it more like the first Metroid, so the player has to draw his own map, if desired.
06-30-2016, 09:07 AM
BonusKun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thief

^ Says who? And how old?

Says me and a shitload of other people who played on Apple IIs and IBMs back in the mid 80s before Nintendo revived this market. I played a ton of D&D project games back then and you had to take notes if you wanted to actually keep advancing in the game.
06-30-2016, 10:02 AM
gamevet

:rock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonusKun

Says me and a shitload of other people who played on Apple IIs and IBMs back in the mid 80s before Nintendo revived this market. I played a ton of D&D project games back then and you had to take notes if you wanted to actually keep advancing in the game.

Ahem! C-64! :rock:
06-30-2016, 10:34 AM
Gentlegamer

Heh, all three of us grognards are from Texas.
06-30-2016, 10:58 AM
Thief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

To make it more like the first Metroid, so the player has to draw his own map, if desired.

But then it wouldn't fit in with the more challenge and sense of exploration as well anymore since you're replacing one map with another. You see, from my personal experience when I played the first Metroid without a map (which was right after beating Metroid Zero Missions on GBA with a map and still on the GBA since you can unlock the first Metroid one it), the sense of exploration got a huge boost because I didn't have a clear enough image of what the full map was really like. Then one day when I finally took a peak online to see the map outline, I was blown away by how much smaller the Metroid 1 world was in comparison to what I imagined. I wasn't the only with this experience, as when I talked to my brother about it, he said that was his experience too.

So no, I don't believe the hacker of that hack created that hack to remove the map just so the players could grid paper it back up again (at least not main intention of hack or inspiration). But then again, this is also based on personal experience on playing games without maps too and that it matches perfectly with that hack description I've highlighted in regards to greater challenge and sense of exploration.

PS - Metroid 1 blew Zero Mission out of the park for both my brother and I back when we first played them shortly after Zero Missions release. Gunpei Yokoi is sorely missed. I also believe that if he were still alive and at Nintendo, that Nintendo wouldn't be in as big a mess as they are now.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3a82376fe4.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonusKun

Says me and a shitload of other people who played on Apple IIs and IBMs back in the mid 80s before Nintendo revived this market. I played a ton of D&D project games back then and you had to take notes if you wanted to actually keep advancing in the game.

That doesn't really answer my question, since that doesn't show any evidence that the devs intended it that way. Especially since the games I've played without maps can be beaten without grid paper maps or online finished maps. I mean, gamers also loved using Game Genie back in the day to make games easier too.

Now if were to choose your side, I would of said one of the DS dungeon crawler series (Etrian Odyssey) comes with the option to draw maps on the other DS screen.
https://rpgrabbit.files.wordpress.co...m-girl-map.jpg
But that is another generation of gaming, also at a time where gamers from previous generations (like you who said liked & used to draw maps) are also now making the games too. Along with the fact that all games eventually started showing maps due to customer complaints. But listening to too many customer complaints has basically lead us to the current too much hand holding generation gaming of today too... :( ... Still, I can't help but wonder what if today's games like Skyrim never had any maps?
06-30-2016, 12:26 PM
Gentlegamer

I remember also mapping the maze in Mordack's dungeon in King's Quest V.
06-30-2016, 01:28 PM
Gogogadget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thief

Pity. It's one of the greatest games of all time.

I'd so much rather play Zero Mission personally.

I love Metroid, it's a great series, but Metroid 1 is basically like being a rat in a maze, not to mention not being able to save your game or anything like that.

I don't remember which one, but i believe an old CRPG actually had some plotting paper in the box so you could draw the maps on it. Personally as someone who works full time I play games to just play the fucking game, not make a damn art project.
06-30-2016, 01:57 PM
Thief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I'd so much rather play Zero Mission personally.

I love Metroid, it's a great series, but Metroid 1 is basically like being a rat in a maze, not to mention not being able to save your game or anything like that.

I don't remember which one, but i believe an old CRPG actually had some plotting paper in the box so you could draw the maps on it. Personally as someone who works full time I play games to just play the fucking game, not make a damn art project.

Wizardry. Might and Magic.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1467219314

https://crpgbook.files.wordpress.com...review-2-1.pdf

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