Nintendo, What went wrong

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

You advocate hardship and the lack of built in mapping in one moment, claim it makes Shining in the Darkness' difficulty curve "more balanced" and that if everybody else hates the game, they just don't understand it right, because they used graph paper.

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But it does make the game more balanced because you level up while getting the hang of exploring without maps. If you use graph paper/online maps, you'll always be forced to do heavy grinding in one spot because you'll always be underleveled due to not getting lost and exploring naturally enough.

And forced grinding is major complaint of SitD I always hear (I am on the Shining Force Central forums, by the way) because most gamers do not play SiTD without online maps/grid paper help, thus are forced in mindless tedious JRPG forced grinding that turns most gamers off. Meanwhile when I played the game without maps, I never once had to stop to catch up in levels because I was gaining those levels while exploring and getting lost. The tedious JRPG grind and simple turn based battles were also always at the back of my mind, with the figuring out where I am and been at the main forefront each time. That's why the game was one of the best JRPG gaming experiences ever. Because it was such a breath of fresh air and so exciting to be playing and exploring a first person dungeon crawler without a map (my first dungeon crawler was it's sequel on Saturn, StHA). So that's what made this first person dungeon exploration exciting, otherwise if I would of used maps it would of felt like I was playing another typical overhead JRPG with lame forced grinding as filler. And I've played enough of those.


So yes, StHA and SiTD is what made me a fan of dungeon crawlers. But sadly, just like it's SRPG brethren, it raised the bar so high that enjoying any other games in these genres is such a chore because nothing else seems to live up to Camelot's genius games developed during the 90s. (ie. even Phantasy Star 1, of which I made it as far as last dungeon and lost interest)

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Haha who in the hell can't get PC games to work in 2016? Seriously.

Plug the bastard controller in, launch the game and done. Also I had zero issues with Dead Space 1, 2 or 3 so yeah, check your hardware I guess.

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Tell that to my buddy who bought me the game key code and all these other people; https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...nning%20camera

And don't tell me I imagined that spinning camera issues either. The fix was an empty text file placed in my document for the game simple titled "joypad" for those wondering.
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/...mera%20fix.png

And here's another guy who ran into some major mouse issues and that he never had so much trouble with bugs before;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqWwqXmdjKk

Because lets face it, even for devs it's much harder to troubleshot games for PC then console due to too many variables in how varied PC builds are out there VS one console build. But at least on PC eventually the fans patch these issues themselves (if the a game is popular enough, that is).

What are the chances we get back on track and continue discussing the follies of Nintendo?

The chances are if people want discuss Nintendo. I mean, don't tell me I'm stopping them.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Haha who in the hell can't get PC games to work in 2016? Seriously.

Plug the bastard controller in, launch the game and done. Also I had zero issues with Dead Space 1, 2 or 3 so yeah, check your hardware I guess.

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I was like WTF, when he said he had problems with running Dead Space 2. It worked just fine on my old 2010 rig.

Wait, Windows Vista?

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Haha who in the hell can't get PC games to work in 2016? Seriously. Plug the bastard controller in, launch the game and done. Also I had zero issues with Dead Space 1, 2 or 3 so yeah, check your hardware I guess.

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Unless you don't want to use a keyboard and mouse or a Xbox gamepad and want to use a DS3 or in my case a 3rd party (Hori Gen Pad 3) USB PS3 gamepad. I still need to figure out how to setup Scarlet Crush wrapper, I hooked up the DS3 to install the driver but don't where it went? On a side note did you upgrade to Windows 10?

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Originally Posted by Thief

But it does make the game more balanced because you level up while getting the hang of exploring without maps. If you use graph paper/online maps, you'll always be forced to do heavy grinding in one spot because you'll always be underleveled due to not getting lost and exploring naturally enough.

And forced grinding is major complaint of SitD I always hear (I am on the Shining Force Central forums, by the way) because most gamers do not play SiTD without online maps/grid paper help, thus are forced in mindless tedious JRPG forced grinding that turns most gamers off. Meanwhile when I played the game without maps, I never once had to stop to catch up in levels because I was gaining those levels while exploring and getting lost. The tedious JRPG grind and simple turn based battles were also always at the back of my mind, with the figuring out where I am and been at the main forefront each time. That's why the game was one of the best JRPG gaming experiences ever. Because it was such a breath of fresh air and so exciting to be playing and exploring a first person dungeon crawler without a map (my first dungeon crawler was it's sequel on Saturn, StHA). So that's what made this first person dungeon exploration exciting, otherwise if I would of used maps it would of felt like I was playing another typical overhead JRPG with lame forced grinding as filler. And I've played enough of those.


So yes, StHA and SiTD is what made me a fan of dungeon crawlers. But sadly, just like it's SRPG brethren, it raised the bar so high that enjoying any other games in these genres is such a chore because nothing else seems to live up to Camelot's genius games developed during the 90s. (ie. even Phantasy Star 1, of which I made it as far as last dungeon and lost interest)

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I don't care if you're on the SFC forums, a lot of us are on other forums.

This is ridiculous anecdotal shit-logic. You played SitD without a map, and somehow the game itself was more balanced because the potato between your ears was distracted by needing to remember a sense of direction or map in your head. The game designers didn't give you a map feature in-game, and they didn't throw graph paper and a pencil at you despite it being the standard tool commonly used by most grid-based dungeon crawlers of that era, and somehow it mitigates the need to grind levels when you run into a scripted boss battle or new section with stronger monsters?

Shining the Holy Ark had an auto-map. I guess Camelot aren't geniuses after all. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Wait, Windows Vista?

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Don't you just miss Aero? :lol:

I don't care what people say. Vista was great.

The downside for consumers was 3rd party OEMs refusing to support their product lines with new drivers submitted to Microsoft, it launched and peripherals didn't work right, and PCs getting Vista Ready badges despite not having enough memory to handle it.

The downside for power users was the media bloat bundled with it that became optional and modular in it's revision, and rebranding, Windows 7.

Other than that though, it was the first NT operating system that had useful and functional repair tools built in, for people who don't know what they're doing. A lot of stuff got ported into using the volume shadow copy feature for backups.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Wait, Windows Vista?

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I was running a dual operating system. Windows XP Pro and Windows 7.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I was like WTF, when he said he problems with running Dead Space 2. It worked just fine on my old 2010 rig.

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Yeah, well there's clearly issues, like I've backed up with links too.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Wait, Windows Vista?

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For me, still on Windows 7.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

I don't care if you're on the SFC forums, a lot of us are on other forums.

This is ridiculous anecdotal shit-logic. You played SitD without a map, and somehow the game itself was more balanced because the potato between your ears was distracted by needing to remember a sense of direction or map in your head. The game designers didn't give you a map feature in-game, and they didn't throw graph paper and a pencil at you despite it being the standard tool commonly used by most grid-based dungeon crawlers of that era, and somehow it mitigates the need to grind levels when you run into a scripted boss battle or new section with stronger monsters?

Shining the Holy Ark had an auto-map. I guess Camelot aren't geniuses after all. :roll:

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Ah, Knuckle Duster has arrived.


By SFC, I meant that I heard a lot more feedback on the matter since it's a "Shining" dedicated forum.

Look, SitD is balanced leveling wise to take into consideration that the player will get lost a lot = balanced.

Meanwhile for StHA, which comes with a modern day auto map system, is balanced for a modern day auto map system game and not getting lost. Meaning StHA can be beat without any extra grinding whatsoever = balanced.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Ah, Knuckle Duster has arrived.


By SFC, I meant that I heard a lot more feedback on the matter since it's a "Shining" dedicated forum.

Look, SitD is balanced leveling wise to take into consideration that the player will get lost a lot = balanced.

Meanwhile for StHA, which comes with a modern day auto map system, is balanced for a modern day auto map system game and not getting lost. Meaning StHA can be beat without any extra grinding whatsoever = balanced.

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I've been here all along, dumbass.

You're implying that creating and using a map in Shining in the Darkness is game breaking, as it somehow has an effect on the usual grinding you run into when encountering scripted bosses or another floor. What you're actually saying is that you're an idiot who gets lost very easily, and you didn't need to grind because you already ran in circles to level up. You're justifying it as some sort of intentional game design balance.

There's no difference in the sequel or other games in the genre. The auto-map is an optional feature.

You're saying people play these games incorrectly by mapping, and it's 'good balance' in either case.

TL;DR: You're fucking stupid.

Dude, I can't explain it more simpler then that. So that's not the issue anymore. The issue is you and others either want to accept it or not.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Dude, I can't explain it more simpler then that. So that's not the issue anymore.

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You can't explain it at all, let alone in simple terms. It's a conclusion drawn from your anecdotal enjoyment of a typical oldschool JRPG.

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The issue is you and others either want to accept it or not.

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We all can probably accept that you're contradicting yourself, and you're claiming to be right in both cases. That's what it looks like to me.

Again. I don't know how to be more clear then that post. So, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Thief

And here's another guy who ran into some major mouse issues and that he never had so much trouble with bugs before;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqWwqXmdjKk

Because lets face it, even for devs it's much harder to troubleshot games for PC then console due to too many variables in how varied PC builds are out there VS one console build. But at least on PC eventually the fans patch these issues themselves (if the a game is popular enough, that is).

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Great, so ATI dropping the ball with their drivers and GPU support software is the developer's fault. I had no issues with the game when I was playing it back in 2011, and I was running a couple of GTX 460s in SLI.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Great, so ATI dropping the ball with their drivers and GPU support software is the developer's fault. I had no issues with the game when I was playing it back in 2011, and I was running a couple of GTX 460s in SLI.

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Still fits the the bill with PC gaming issues. Not everybody's PC hardware is the same and always changing. Adding toward more issues for gamers and developers. So my point still stands.