Oh, right. I too miss the days of wearing out the right direction on my D-pad.
Oh, right. I too miss the days of wearing out the right direction on my D-pad.
So this means characters like Blaze, Wisps, etc. depend on their game's content? The Rush games and Colors/Gens were regarded as good, and they were liked. But when they were in bad games, they were lumped in with the rest, and the Wisps were especially hated by fans. Characters who have never had good game appearances (Mephiles, Babylon Rogues, Chip, Big, DEADLY FUCKING SIX), could be regulated to the comic and possible merchandise/cameos. Great idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticGroove
This leaves Tails (who has immunity except for with purists), Knuckles (who HAD immunity until Boom), Amy, Cream, Blaze, Wisps, Marine, Rouge, Shadow (who will likely be permanently killed off), Big (Background cameos only), Espio, Charmy, Vector, Mighty, Metal Sonic, and Tikal are left as the cast.
For the majority of people it will absolutely depend on the game and nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
Almost all of those characters you've mentioned are absolutely irrelevant to Sonic in any real way when talking about games people loved. Characters that appear in ensemble type games (Rush, R, Fighters, transformed, etc) are not relevant to the main sonic series since they are not "Sonic" games in the purest sense of the word. When you talk about "Mario Games" people aren't going to bring up Mario Kart or Smash unless you're specifically talking about those games or are compiling a list of games Mario has been in.
So you're looking at sonic 1, 2, 3+k, CD, SA1, SA2, 06, generations... and I think you get my point. Knuckles Chaotix wasn't explicitly a "Sonic" game, and it wasn't exactly a game that saw a lot of ownership as it was on the short lived 32x.
So no, the cast is nowhere near as large as you stated. You're looking at Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles as the main protagonist cast in terms of games that have wide appeal. With Robotnic and whatever minions (like Metal Sonic) as being the antagonists.
Expanding it much beyond that with more than background characters or special unshockable content is a bad idea.
Likewise turning Sonic into a poorly written, acted, and directed tween drama also doesn't work.
Sonic is supposed to be about good gameplay in relatively simple stories.
I don't want Sonic to suffer the constant whoring out to so many games Mario has been gone through. But at the same time, you can see different and varied gameplay with the early Sonic games.
SA1 had a relatively simple story as well, focusing more on the gameplay than a convoluted and cheesy story.
They could have built and refined that, but instead started focusing even more on the story with SA2, forcing players to switch between a variety of gameplay modes that had nothing to do with each other.
The comics are the comics, irrelevant to the games in every way. They could have made the cast of sonic06 an amazing comic, it isn't going to help people not hate them all because the game was warmed over shit.
It also doesn't help to bog down the games with tons of story. So background characters simply being there is fine. I doubt anyone would care if any of the characters you mentioned were just in the background of a stage, or showed up briefly to give you an objective. What they do care is crappy soap opera level plot/stories, tons of jarring gameplay changes forced onto you, and all the rest that keeps anchoring down Sonic in ways that the original games, and to a lesser extent SA1, didn't even bother.
TLDR:
Sonic- Good: Fast and enjoyable gameplay with simple stories to move you along.
Sonic- Bad: tween drama, often "edgy", with overly convoluted and poorly written stories (also often filled with terrible acting). Too many characters jumping in and muddling up gameplay.
Okay, and I guess overly kiddy stories don't work either, as evidenced by SLW failing commercially. Do you agree?Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticGroove
Page 5 already. ... If only I had an interest in this topic.
http://threadbombing.com/data/media/...less-troll.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Fuck off, then.
You usually contribute nothing but pure stupidity anyway.
I'd imagine being a sub par Mario Galaxy rip off limited to Nintendo's console (for home versions. Pc has never been a strong sales platform for Sonic), had far more to do with the game failing than being a "kiddy" story.Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
Then I don't think this thread needs any help.
Sonic needs one storyline:
Robotnik is capturing sonic's animal buddies to power his robot army and take over the world through his energy corporation (chemical plant). Sonic decides to go save them again with the help of his buddy tails. Knuckles may or may not factor in as a dupe of robotnik, depending on which game it is. Sounds pretty familiar right? Well megaman has the same damn plot each game and no one seems to mind there! Why not have sonic just keep saving his friends / the land without the help of boobs mcbat and all the other lame-o's. Sonic doesn't need to snowboard in downtown San Francisco then hit the docks with a whale. AT ALL!
But still, no "kiddy" stories, just simple ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticGroove
I hear this a lot. But nobody explains WHY they are lame.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabear
They're lame because they're unnecessary. I know sonic was always supposed to have some kind of friend band or something, but as it stands the way characters were introduced was pretty incremental. First tails then amy and metal sonic, then knuckles and the chaotix crew. Then all these other guys showed up and it was jarring, what's with the big cat thing and the hypersexual bat? Why am I fishing again? What the hells going on in a sonic game where the main enemy feels like a second thought to whatever fresh hell youre trying to navigate with supporting cast. You ask why they're lame, I ask why they're necessary?
Sonic isn't a game like, say, Zelda, which has always had a deeper world and gameplay. Sure you can boil it down to "Link defeats bad guy and saves world" just like you can reduce Sonic down to the same, but there's a hell of a lot more nuance in Zelda. It's a bigger world (and keeps getting bigger nearly every game) that necessitates the need for more characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
Zelda can get away with that because it's not the simple arcade style gameplay of Sonic.
You may want to play Sonic for hours on end if it's good, but you're not doing it for a rich and developed storyline. Those add to Zelda but detract from Sonic.
All those "Sonic Pals" weigh the game down. The main 3 were historically fine. Minor gameplay tweaks from Sonic, allowing them to have a slightly different game experience. Everyone else was simply background fluff.
So the reason why they are lame is because they add nothing to Sonic when they interfere with Sonic's traditional strengths and hurt the flow of gameplay. (Most) People don't give a shit about a ton of dialog about plot, world building, or character growth. They don't want to run through a level only to have 5+ minutes of story and transition every time where a motly gang of Sonic's friends are all yapping, or where Sonic is getting frisky with some human chick.
Megaman was mentioned, and most of those games (haven't played all of them so can't say all) keep dialog story to a minimum and at key moments. And megaman had a hell of a lot more story interjected from the very first game. They have kept to the formula with minor tweaks while trying to advance and diversidy the gameplay, all within the same general framework.
You can play a megaman game and know it's a megaman game right away (or trying to be one.
You can't play a sonic game anymore and know it's a sonic game right off the bat by gameplay alone. He's lost, muddled, and desperately trying to latch onto something "cool" to try and be relevant again. He's tried motion controls, he's tried being edgy, tried being darker, tried being a bright mario wannabe, etc.
Ever since they left the 16bit era Sega has been struggling to find a way to bring Sonic forward, and has never quite done it right. They have only recently been making advances in the right direction (like Generations), but still not there (as evidenced by Sonic Boom).
Sonic really needs Sonic and that's it. Adding a little bit of OPTIONAL variety is fine, but don't interfere with the game. Meaning don't bog down the pace of the game with long dialog or complex stories, and most certainly don't screw with simple, tight, and enjoyable gameplay.
Sonic games are supposed to be all about playing, not reading/watching. If they want to make a completely different kind of game, then spin off something for it. Or better yet, revive an IP that is more suited for it.
Did you really feel the need to post that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Everybody else does. But I was just really surprised so many would stick in a topic they have nothing good to say about. Because that's what everybody else tells me. So yeah, that's exactly what was on my mind when I wrote that, in case you're wondering. But also not saying it's wrong or anything. Just an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
Everybody else has put in what they think about the topic. Your first post is to criticize how many pages it's gotten to, and point out how uninterested you are to participate in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Not saying it's wrong or anything? When you're called out for contributing nothing but stupidity anyway, you say "Then I don't think this thread needs any help."
Come on. You can do better, troll.