Digital Foundry (Official Thread)

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Originally Posted by Soulis

DOOM is a 1993 game, running smooth enough (30-35fps) on a 486 in software.

A PSX or Saturn (used properly) should be able to handle a better looking version than the PC original, breaking no sweat. At least they managed that with the N64 version...

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N64 got a much faster CPU and it came 2 years latter than the PS or Saturn, mind you Listen to John Carmark the Jaguar is the best version of the game and it running in a much better colour mode than the PC version. I just can't work JC out it was ok for id to use the custom chips of the Jaguar, but Rage couldn't use the custom chips of the Saturn.

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My family did have a PC back in 1996, completely forgot the specs but it played Quake 1, Duke Nukem 64 pretty much perfectly. Not GLQuake mind

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My 486 could handle Doom and Duke no worries, Quake was a totally different matter, it was a blocky low res mess that moved like crap too. Also has a console gamer I was used to playing games on then big 21 TV in my Bedroom, while the PC was always kept downstairs and had a tiny 14 Monitor . Which is why I much rathered played Duke on the Saturn than on my PC (if that makes any sense)

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Quake for Saturn is a good example, as it has colored lighting that the original Quake did not. It's no different than arcade ports to 16-bit consoles. Authenticity isn't better than the best balance you can customize for the target hardware.

Quake II for Playstation is cool for what it is but if anything, it would only indicate that the Playstation couldn't handle Quake, as the geometry is super blocky and it looks like a 3DO FPS with 3D modeled enemies instead of sprites and is more crude than Duke Nukem 3D, even though it sticks to small claustrophobic spaces. Some people try to make a big deal out of minor changes to Saturn Quake's structure, to improve performance, but Quake II PSX does this for everything to the point that it is painfully noticeable in every scene.

Of course the Playstation could do a version of Quake, but Quake II isn't the libraries' best example of that potential. I have to say it too often, but no game will ever show the full potential of hardware and no game is proof of the limit of any hardware's potential.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

The PSX it's self couldn't handle the Build engine in software, never mind Quake . That was the whole point and advantage of console back then and that was custom hardware, rather than doing everything in software. Forsaken onthe PS was super impressive too, but that game was using low level fully assembly code and its showed

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There was a version of Quake developed by Lobotomy, but they could not get a publisher for the port and it was never released. According to Ezra Driesbach of Lobotomy, the PS version of Quake ran faster than the Saturn and also video output on the Playstation made the colors better than the Saturn version.

http://www.gareth.uk/2010/08/07/inte...tomy-software/

Matt: How did you feel about the two platforms, Saturn and PlayStation?

Ezra: I did do some work on the PlayStation later. After Saturn Quake was done I did a quick port of it to the PlayStation. Lobotomy was really hurting for cash at that point, and I hoped that we could get some publisher to sign us up to do PlayStation Quake. But for some reason, we couldn’t get anyone to go for it. Lobotomy folded soon after.

Matt: A PlayStation port of Quake? That’s terribly interesting! I’ve wanted a version of Quake on the PlayStation so I could compare versions on all three of the consoles from that “generation”. If you’ve the inclination, I’d truly like to hear how the port turned out on the PlayStation hardware, compared to the Saturn and (if you’ve seen it) the N64 version.

Ezra: The most striking thing about the PlayStation port was how much faster the graphics hardware was than the Saturn. The initial scene after you just start the game is pretty complex. I think it ran 20 fps on the Saturn version. On the PlayStation it ran 30, but the actual rendering part could have been going 60 if the CPU calculations weren’t holding it up. I don’t know if it would have ever been possible to get it to really run 60, but at least there was the potential.

Other than that, it would have looked identical to the Saturn version. Except for some reason the PlayStation video output has better colour than the Saturn’s.

So I know something about the PlayStation. And really, if you couldn’t tell from the games, the PlayStation is way better than the Saturn. It’s way simpler and way faster. There are a lot of things about the Saturn that are totally dumb. Chief among these is that you can’t draw triangles, only quadrilaterals.

^Yeah, but it didn't get released.

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Originally Posted by Blades

^Yeah, but it didn't get released.

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Yeah I'm not questioning that. Just pointing out that HAD it been released that the Playstation would of had a decent version of Quake. Like the person conducting the interview I linked, I would of liked to have seen all three versions. Alas that didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by stu

Yeah I'm not questioning that. Just pointing out that HAD it been released that the Playstation would of had a decent version of Quake. Like the person conducting the interview I linked, I would of liked to have seen all three versions. Alas that didn't happen.

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I don't agree. It would still be powered by the Exhumed engine, which is still not Quake. The problem isn't the Saturn's execution (which is pretty OK), it's that the engine itself is not well suited for Quake.

I can't get past episode 2. The Quake maps were just designed for a tighter engine. I haven't seen a single playthrough of ep. 2 online that's not on easy mode. I've had CLEAR shots go right through the baddie. Sometimes, I land on top of the baddie who then instantly kills me without being able to reciprocate (which can't happen in the Quake engine).

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Originally Posted by Blades

I don't agree. It would still be powered by the Exhumed engine, which is still not Quake. The problem isn't the Saturn's execution (which is pretty OK), it's that the engine itself is not well suited for Quake.

I can't get past episode 2. The Quake maps were just designed for a tighter engine. I haven't seen a single playthrough of ep. 2 online that's not on easy mode. I've had CLEAR shots go right through the baddie. Sometimes, I land on top of the baddie who then instantly kills me without being able to reciprocate (which can't happen in the Quake engine).

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Since it would have developed after the Saturn version they may have been able to solve a number of those issues. That's entirely hypothetical on my part since as I said in my initial post and you reiterated in your reply, the game never came out on the PS. Nevertheless, the Playstation version would of had a better framerate therefore I'm sure that the Saturn version could have been improved upon in other ways.
Short of building a whole new engine on the Playstation that allows the Quake maps to work better but uses the strength of the system, I really can't see another solution.

You're right, if the other option is no Quake at all (because the Saturn/PSX can't handle the Quake engine) then a PSX Quake would've been better than SAT Quake.

However, I'm still wondering what engine Quake II PSX runs on...

Its a custom engine that the developer made for the game. the developer was called Hammerhead LTD.

http://www.mobygames.com/company/hammerhead-ltd

They also developed Shadow Master for the PS and PC. http://www.mobygames.com/game/shadow-master

I'm pretty sure that their Quake II code was a development of the engine that they used for the PS version of Shadow Master.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

My 486 could handle Doom and Duke no worries, Quake was a totally different matter, it was a blocky low res mess that moved like crap too. Also has a console gamer I was used to playing games on then big 21 TV in my Bedroom, while the PC was always kept downstairs and had a tiny 14 Monitor . Which is why I much rathered played Duke on the Saturn than on my PC (if that makes any sense)

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Duke Saturn isn't a half bad port really, I did aquire the PS1 version once upon a time and the dance remixes of the music are godawful and the frame rate is lower than anything else on the PS1 at the time for sure. Just a big mess.

I do miss my 19" PC CRT though, that thing was a beast. Heavy too.

Found out some more interesting information on the PSX version of Quake II. The game ran in a resolution of 512x240 and at a constant 30FPS regardless of whether it was in single or multi-player mode (up to 4 players).

Here's a couple of interviews on the game and the developers HammerHead.

http://www.ign.com/articles/1998/12/...e-ii-interview

Quote: "The New EngineIGNPSX: Are you using a brand new engine to create Quake II on the PlayStation, and if so, what are its strengths, and how will it make Quake II unique on the PlayStation?
Chris: For Quake II we're using a completely new engine. The one we used for ShadowMaster was tailored precisely toward the needs of that project, in short it was efficient but limited. At that time we were reading all this stuff about Quake being impossible to do on the PSX, which we thought was just untrue. As a result we redesigned the game engine from scratch with an eye to providing all the functionality required for a game like Quake (or better yet Quake II, which hadn't been released at that point), along with the capability to handle multiple-split screens. The objective being to build an engine powerful enough to handle any sort of game we desired to do in the future.
We've designed the engine without compromise so the player can enjoy the game to the fullest extent. Hopefully the gamer will appreciate our efforts in keeping the wide-open areas free of fogging, and close objects and surfaces free of tearing and distortion, but in the end it's quite unimportant. Our aim is to produce the most enjoyable game possible.
IGNPSX: So, this isn't the one used for ShadowMaster?
Chris: Right, it's 100% new. The ShadowMaster engine was designed purely for that title, tweaking it up was always completely out of the question. Designing and coding anything is always a learning experience, and there were things we would have liked to have done on that title which were simply not practical."

And
http://www.ign.com/articles/1998/11/...e-ii-interview

Quote: "IGNPSX: What resolution and frame rate will QII on PlayStation be?
PlayStation Quake II runs in 512 by 240, at a smooth 30fps regardless of the number of players. There will be a minor loss of detail for the four-player mode, but given the relatively small display area it shouldn't be at all obtrusive."

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I do miss my 19" PC CRT though, that thing was a beast. Heavy too.

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I miss my 19" IBM CRT for Dreamcast with the VGA box. It just doesn't look all that good on an LCD.

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Originally Posted by stu

]Other than that, it would have looked identical to the Saturn version. Except for some reason the PlayStation video output has better colour than the Saturn’s.[/I][/SIZE][/B]

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I'm not trying to make out that Quake either couldn't be done or would look worse on the PS at all, in my eyes the PS was always a better system for 3D gfx . I'm simply saying that when both consoles either were not allowed (like Doom on Saturn) or didn't choose to use the custom silicon (like with Duke on the PS) then you had issues. Quake was remarkable on the Saturn mainly because this was a complete 3D game in terms of full 6 axis and the Saturn did a nice port with dynamic lighting too . On a systems lets not forget, many said couldn't do 3D

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Duke Saturn isn't a half bad port really, I did aquire the PS1 version once upon a time and the dance remixes of the music are godawful and the frame rate is lower than anything else on the PS1 at the time for sure. Just a big mess.

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Think both the PS and Saturn Duke ports had good and bad points and while my PC could run Duke in back inthe day, no worries , I'd much rather played games on the consoes on what was then for me a Big 21' TV in my bedroom . The PC was always downstairs and playing on the 14' monitor was a Huge come down. I loved my PC manily for the flight sims like F22, Half-Life and Geoff Crammon incredible racing sims F1GP 2 and III , but I've always much rather play on the consoles to this very day

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I miss my 19" IBM CRT for Dreamcast with the VGA box. It just doesn't look all that good on an LCD.

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Yeah the old CRT PC VGA monitors were class . I remember paying like £70 for the import VGA box like in March 1999 and being amazed at how good Sega Rally II looked, it was like it was a different game.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I do miss my 19" PC CRT though, that thing was a beast. Heavy too.

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I remember using my flat screen 19inch CRT monitor with my Dreamcast via VGA. Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, Daytona, DOA, and Soul Calibur all looked so amazing on it.