Sonic Mania/ Sonic Mania Plus (XB1, PS4, PC, Switch)

Eh, the problem with Sonic CD is not which soundtrack is better (both are good honestly), but which soundtrack fits better. The Japanese soundtrack is a synth-fest much like the rest of the series.

Incidentally, this is the "official" explanation for the soundtrack change, Sega of America thought it wasn't good enough - I assume they wanted something that stood out much more from the synths the base console has. The other suspicion is that they may have had trouble with the licensing for the original tracks (hm?), though that wouldn't explain why Europe managed to get those as well (usually Japan licensing issues result in things staying Japan-only).

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Originally Posted by Blades

the real story is that when Sonic CD was set to arrive on our shores, Sega simply couldn't let a game with such a bad soundtrack through, so they ended up redoing it

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if you change "soundtrack" with "Palette" then you have their Streets of Rage 3 story.

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Originally Posted by Blades

Opinions aside, the real story is that when Sonic CD was set to arrive on our shores, Sega simply couldn't let a game with such a bad soundtrack through, so they ended up redoing it with Spencer Nilsen (also the mastermind behind Ecco CD, another excellent soundtrack).

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They are both good, but in very different ways. There are also weak spots on both, and really strong points.
But in the end a lot of it is down to personal taste. I'd rather be able to assign soundtracks on a per stage basis than just go with one over the other.

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Originally Posted by Blades

It pains me to say, but Chaotix is probably the weakest 2D Sonic, though the 32X could've hosted the best one.

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The 32x was never going to get the best 2D Sonic because of it's bastard child status.
I'm much more disappointed that they were so focused on 3D with the Saturn, because it truly could have had the best 2D Sonic offering hands down.
It had all the requirements to do something absolutely excellent.
Not only would it visually have been excellent, but the sound hardware in the Saturn could have let them do some truly magnificent things (in addition to some straight redbook audio if they wanted... but I think that would be a waste).

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Originally Posted by NeoVamp

if you change "soundtrack" with "Palette" then you have their Streets of Rage 3 story.

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But in that case, both were no good.

If you ask me, Sonic CD feels like a Sonic 1 beta, the levels were a little mess compared with those on Sonic 1.

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Originally Posted by EclecticGroove

The 32x was never going to get the best 2D Sonic because of it's bastard child status.

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Ironically, the 32X had more of a Sonic presence than the Saturn ended up having.

Honestly, if Sega invested resources in making a 2D Sonic game in 1995/6, that would've been a PR disaster for Sega. The entire gaming world was going 3D. When Mario 64 was brand new, a new 2D Sonic would've shut the series and the Saturn down hard.

It would directly be admitting that the Saturn can't compete with the N64 and PSX, from the company that pioneered 3D gaming.

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Originally Posted by Blades

Ironically, the 32X had more of a Sonic presence than the Saturn ended up having.

Honestly, if Sega invested resources in making a 2D Sonic game in 1995/6, that would've been a PR disaster for Sega. The entire gaming world was going 3D. When Mario 64 was brand new, a new 2D Sonic would've shut the series and the Saturn down hard.

It would directly be admitting that the Saturn can't compete with the N64 and PSX, from the company that pioneered 3D gaming.

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Oh, I agree it did. I just wish it hadn't.

And they could have released a 2D Sonic just fine at or near launch so long as they had other 3D offerings not long after it.
The Saturn was launched in 1994, Mario 64 was launched in 1996. That would have gave them a full 2 years to come out with a 3D Sonic game (or another 3D mainline game).

That would have given the Saturn a polished, well known, well liked series to showcase on the system... even if it was 2D (assuming it looked, sounded, and played great). I really doubt anyone would have complained considering other 2D (or pseudo 3D) games were quite common that gen (rayman, gex, clockwork knight, bug, astal, oddworld games, etc) and many of them quite popular.

Except what Sega needed was a Sonic game as a launch game for the Saturn. Sonic was their obvious killer app everybody was expecting and they didn't deliver it when they should have, and what they delivered later wasn't what people were hoping for either.

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Originally Posted by Blades

Honestly, if Sega invested resources in making a 2D Sonic game in 1995/6, that would've been a PR disaster for Sega. The entire gaming world was going 3D. When Mario 64 was brand new, a new 2D Sonic would've shut the series and the Saturn down hard.

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Yeah this was the other issue, to the point that 2D games would outright be rejected for publishing altogether just for being 2D (this kept going in the 6th generation too). Heck, the common insults about the Saturn are "it sucks at 3D" and "it's a 2D powerhouse" (which was not a good thing in the context of that generation, not to mention the PS1 could pull off 2D just as well), and it still hasn't gotten that stigma off it, even though at lot of that had to do with how awfully Sega handled the early Saturn games.

And for that matter, the main reason the PC-FX died so quickly was because it lacked hardware that could be used to render 3D models. (and don't say the Saturn didn't, it used quads for polygons - the PS1 GPU also only understood 2D triangles for that matter, how the CPU handled them is what made them usable for 3D)

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The Saturn was launched in 1994, Mario 64 was launched in 1996. That would have gave them a full 2 years to come out with a 3D Sonic game (or another 3D mainline game).

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The Saturn was released in November 1994 only in Japan.

They did release a 3D game by Sonic Team in 1996, Nights.

That point is irrelevant anyway. Sonic is (was) Sega's flagship. To release a fully developed 2D Sonic instead of a 3D one would've been admitting complete defeat. If you're suggesting they did both a 2D and 3D game, why would you think that a company that handed off their star franchise to a group of losers with no experience to make a 3D game would've been able to make a 2D one at the same time?!

Takashi Iizuka saved Sonic in the late '90s by making the totally rad SA for DC, but it was too late.

Frankly, I thought the 32X made perfect sense at the time as a way to end the reign of Genesis by making a few quality 2D Sonics (and other overdriven 16-bit era favorites) to the few fans who wanted them for the 32X, it certainly could've handled it, and big-budget 3D games for the powerhouse Saturn. Unfortunately, the Saturn was more of a middle-aged compromise so that plan would've failed anyway. No one would've complained because the 32X would've had a small but dedicated fanbase of old Genesis diehards too cheap/too into the old style games to upgrade.

That plan is much better than the 32X-as-stepping-stone plan they did instead, which was stupid.

^I'm with you on that.

I never saw the 32X, or the Sega CD, as "obstacles" that impeded more Genesis games from being made. To me, they meant "more". More life for my favorite system. More games to be played. More power. Better music and graphics. And this is the opinion I strongly held back in the day. Not just some retrospective views on the subject.

What I would have given to have been able to afford a 32X or a Sega CD back then.

Bump!

I need some levity after all this "Sonic was never good" fiasco. Fuck the haters.

Miru, repped for bringing that one to light.

As for levity:

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Originally Posted by Sik

Eh, the problem with Sonic CD is not which soundtrack is better (both are good honestly), but which soundtrack fits better. The Japanese soundtrack is a synth-fest much like the rest of the series.

Incidentally, this is the "official" explanation for the soundtrack change, Sega of America thought it wasn't good enough - I assume they wanted something that stood out much more from the synths the base console has. The other suspicion is that they may have had trouble with the licensing for the original tracks (hm?), though that wouldn't explain why Europe managed to get those as well (usually Japan licensing issues result in things staying Japan-only).

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The explanation is simply that electronic music was not considered mainstream enough in the US market at the time, and Sega of America were a lot more brand-conscious over Sonic than their other properties.

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Originally Posted by QuickSciFi

Bump!

I need some levity after all this "Sonic was never good" fiasco. Fuck the haters.

Miru, repped for bringing that one to light.

As for levity:

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That felt comforting to read.

Although I was ticked off some pages ago, I sat down and went through my games and found that I own fourteen Sonic the Hedgehog games. Not including spinoffs, and considering Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles is one game and not two, I can honestly say of those fourteen games I can sit, play, and enjoy each one now just as much as I did whenever I first got them.

So forget the hate, right now I'm looking forward to Sonic Mania and should it be as good as I hope it is and ever be available on an older Sega console, I'll have fifteen great Sonic games that have spanned over twenty-five years now. If that isn't a sign of a successful game series, then I don't know what is.



*edit, song was cool too by the way.

Thankfully, I don't think that video will reach much higher than 20,000 views, but the views it did get was from playing people like you guys, who had to visit that channel after the fact. I saw it the first night because I often search words like "Sega" "Sega Genesis" or various games, to see whats new for videos for my favorite console/developer.
(<-What can I say? I love me some Streets of Rage ...and classic Sonic, and Shinobi, and Phantasy Star, etc.)

I don't have a login for Youtube/Google thankfully, or obviously there'd have been 1 more thumbs down, but I don't know if I ever counted for 1 more view because of that either. I sure as fuck didn't want to share that video and give them more views though...

I don't know how many times I can say it, it obviously never sinks in, most negativity on the internet is from a loud minority, the Sonic hate included. Don't give the negative assholes the attention they want.

Yep. Fuck the haters, the Sonic cult will be around for years to come. You can count on me and miru!

Random, pointless, post of the week(well, the week's still fairly young, one of you could still prove me wrong in 2 days :p)

Sega's original Sonic Boom(arcade, 1987):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tU2r8uMcM8