Hardware pushed to the limits according to Sega-16 members

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09-25-2016, 10:15 PM
Black_Tiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

What a ridiculous thing to say , you're upgrading the memory and that makes a Huge difference ask any N64 or Sega Saturn own the different a 4 MB boast can make to the system .

No version of the PC Engine CD-ROM formats upgrade the PC Engine ram/memory/hardware. The Sega Saturn ram carts do the same thing, allowing the base hardware to use a larger segment to run content from, but does not upgrade system/work/video/misc "ram". The FDS also downloads mini roms to a small space and has the same kind of bottleneck, without upgrading the actual Famicom hardware, other than running additional sound in parallel. The batteries in cart games which save progress do not turbo charge the console hardware either.

The N64 ram expansion however, upgrades the actual hardware. The PCE CD system cards "upgrade memory" no more (but arguably less) than different sizes of cart roms are "upgrading memory".

If you refuse to research what you're commenting on to learn how these things work, then just stop commenting.

Quote:

Sapphire was never released and the Arcade card cost a fortune at the time . But it game a massive rise in performance , compare any SNK Arcade card game to their Mega Drive or Snes version for proof

The Arcade Card saw few releases because PCE players were content with the SCD format and it launched during the 32-bit generation, while NEC was already showing off the PC-FX at the same time. Sapphire was released almost 2 years later and barely had any copies pressed because everyone was playing 32-bit consoles. Where I lived, 16-bit games sold for $60 - $70, but many SNES games sold for $100 - $150. I know, because I bought most of them, spending $1000 on a handful of games.

The Arcade Card does absolutely nothing to increase performance, it only supported games with enough content for the PC Engine to flex its muscle with, the same as giant sized carts. The larger Arcade Card games are comparable in size to Star Ocean, Tengai Makyou Zero and SFA2 for SNES/SFC. The extra rom size didn't give a rise in performance to the SNES, it only gave it more assets to take on. SFA2 doesn't run nearly as well the SFII ports, because taking on so much only strains the hardware and doesn't help it.

Neo Geo games with smaller roms than SNES/Genesis/TG-16 games still massively outperform them, because of the power of the Neo Geo hardware. Do you really believe than a 74 meg uncompressed Genesis port of Viewpoint would run the same as the Neo Geo version? Raiden for TG-16/PCE has a smaller rom than the arcade version, yet it tosses around twice as many sprites. Is this proof that smaller roms/"memory" equals more power? Or do we just need to exercise common sense?
09-25-2016, 10:22 PM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

god? Your statment is truth? Why not admit that you commit a mistake? This not will turn you a weak, poor or fool.
You only mentioned speed sensation. Not mentioned what conditions each game give this sensation. Silly is to say that other are silly because you want compare rad racer to outrun. There is others games:

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

Not. Barone just mentioned that "nothing" in SMS is close in terms of "speed sensation". He not claimed hills, backgrounds, leagues. Now he want a criteria because he saw a game close in "speed sensation". If i dont fit in criteria of him im silly. Weak argument.

Why are you always so snarky and invested when the SMS is cited?
You're making an ass out of yourself by overreacting like that, especially when you clearly have no clue about what you're saying.

I didn't invent any criteria, it's just video games history 101. You can compare any games you want, but when you compare apples to oranges you're being silly and it's pointless.
09-25-2016, 10:43 PM
segarule

objectively:

Yes, it's using a MMC1 chip but, seriously, there's nothing on the SMS that even comes close to it in terms of speed sensation and how smooth it runs. Several racing games of 4th gen consoles also look far worse IMO.

god statment 1 - Nes game impressive for hardware;
god statment 2 - there's nothing on the SMS that even comes close to it in terms of speed sensation;
SMS game presented with speed sensation
god criteria: Now compare OutRun to Rad Racer.
because: No hills though and Racing games which can render road elevation changes are in a different league, it's just silly to ignore that

Conclusion im silly because i presented a game with speed sensation BUT now i need compare OutRun to Rad Racer because to compare speed sensation i need also include background with hills and road elevation rendered. For me this is known like as criteria. Before - speed sensation now - speed sensation with hills and road elevation.
"Babaquice" in not admits that "there's nothing on the SMS that even comes close to it in terms of speed sensation" is wrong .
09-25-2016, 10:53 PM
Barone

Google Translate is a hell of a drug. :lol:
09-25-2016, 11:22 PM
saturndual32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Raiden for TG-16/PCE has a smaller rom than the arcade version, yet it tosses around twice as many sprites. Is this proof that smaller roms/"memory" equals more power? Or do we just need to exercise common sense?

The PCE Raiden does that?
09-26-2016, 12:36 AM
AggroSky

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

Not. Barone just mentioned that "nothing" in SMS is close in terms of "speed sensation". He not claimed hills, backgrounds, leagues. Now he want a criteria because he saw a game close in "speed sensation". If i dont fit in criteria of him im silly. Weak argument.

One thing I learned about Barone since I came in here is that he is good at pushing people's buttons :p
09-26-2016, 12:48 AM
AggroSky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

One game I think is pretty impressive for the hardware it's running on is Rad Racer (1987):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHu5nEZKteA

Yes, it's using a MMC1 chip but, seriously, there's nothing on the SMS that even comes close to it in terms of speed sensation and how smooth it runs. Several racing games of 4th gen consoles also look far worse IMO.

Yup, it is a damn impressive game. Especially the night stages. I guess it cheats by using a chip but you are right, pretty great looking for a NES game.
09-26-2016, 01:59 AM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by AggroSky

One thing I learned about Barone since I came in here is that he is good at pushing people's buttons :p

You never know when you'll step on someone's sacred cow. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

Originally Posted by AggroSky

Yup, it is a damn impressive game. Especially the night stages. I guess it cheats by using a chip but you are right, pretty great looking for a NES game.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. And there's nothing like that on the SMS.

Another game I always advocate in threads like this is Rapid Racer (1997) (a.k.a. Turbo Prop Racing) for the PS1.
60 fps, 15 AI-controlled vehicles, high vertical resolution, some good lighting and solid geometry for PS1 standards. Yeah, there's obvious trade-offs in the amount of details the tracks have and the noticeable clipping, but it delivers good arcade gameplay and speed sensation IMO.

It's hard to find decent captures of this game on YT, so I'll go with this lukemorse video because he knows how to actually play the game. I'd recommend watching the final segment of the video, starting at 15:25:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fc8oPNkiM
09-26-2016, 05:32 AM
Team Andromeda

Quote:

No version of the PC Engine CD-ROM formats upgrade the PC Engine ram/memory/hardware. The Sega Saturn ram carts do the same thing, allowing the base hardware to use a larger segment to run content from, but does not upgrade system/work/video/misc "ram"

Sega Ram cart up the Saturn main RAM and that allowed the developers to really go to town. To try and make out its not a add-on or its not adding to main system Ram is a getting a little silly.

Quote:

The Arcade Card saw few releases because PCE players were content with the SCD format and it launched during the 32-bit generation

It didn't launch during the 32 Gen but in 93 and it cost a staggering 12,800 yen at the time . It allowed a huge boost in performance

Quote:

The Arcade Card does absolutely nothing to increase performance, it only supported games with enough content for the PC Engine to flex its muscle with, the same as giant sized carts

Adding more memory is a easy way to boost performance , any PC owner will know that . If you were a PC- Eng CR ROM use one would know what adding more memory could do with various upgrades to system memory CD ROM 2 version 3 was a big step up

Quote:

Sapphire was released almost 2 years later and barely had any copies pressed because everyone was playing 32-bit consoles.

Sapphire was only sold at trade shows , but it shows what could be done with more memeory . Compare Fatal Fury II, Fatal Fury Special to the Mega Drive version for starters if you want to talk SNK
09-26-2016, 07:42 AM
segarule

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

Google Translate is a hell of a drug. :lol:

What is relevance in discussion?

Quote:

One thing I learned about Barone since I came in here is that he is good at pushing people's buttons

Barone issue is that he dont know respect the opinion of members here. He need point something with the "alter" arguments.
09-26-2016, 08:00 AM
Team Andromeda

Have to say Robocop III onthe Amiga was pushing the system a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFdgyuv6fU
09-26-2016, 11:03 AM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

What is relevance in discussion?

The "relevance in discussion" is to be able to actually partake in the discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

Barone issue is that he dont know respect the opinion of members here. He need point something with the "alter" arguments.

All I did was to tell you to compare Rad Racer to OutRun; just like the reviewer in the video I shared in the original post was doing in his commentary.
But I'm sure you didn't watch the review before jumping down in my throat like a maniac. I'm also sure you don't understand the difference between "It's silly" and "You're silly".
You need to learn how to take criticism towards your beloved SMS; it could do wonders for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Have to say Robocop III onthe Amiga was pushing the system a lot
[video]cheap emulation[video]

It runs quite slower than that on real hardware though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czTpAYmnAsE

It's a very ambitious game.
09-26-2016, 12:15 PM
Team Andromeda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barone

It runs quite slower than that on real hardware though

Don't remeber it jerking around that my on my Amiga 600 . It was gob smacking graphics back in 1992
09-26-2016, 12:16 PM
segarule

Phrases like:

Can I disagree 200% with your post? :P

Ridiculous this, ridiculous that... Enough with the trolling, man.
You can't even understand the context of the discussions nor the technical info you spit on us randomly every now and then; let others have a minded conversation for a change

My, my... Hahahaha.

Racing games which can render road elevation changes are in a different league, it's just silly to ignore that; you'll be comparing apples to oranges.

Show your complete tolerance with others arguments.

If you think that Rad Racer is impressive, is your opinion and must be respected.
When you say: (seriously, there's nothing on the SMS that even comes close to it in terms of speed sensation).
You opinion but is wrong. you did a statment with no specifications.I presented a SMS game with speed sensation. After, you claimed that there no is hills or road elevation. Ok, but not were your initial argument. I dont know if the presence of hills or road elevation change the speed of a game closely but fact is that there is games in SMS with speed sensation.
09-26-2016, 01:08 PM
Barone

Quote:

Originally Posted by segarule

HUEHUEHUEHUE BRBRBRBRBRBR

:ok:
And, please, don't send PMs to me anymore asking for help next time you get yet another beatdown from tomaitheous and/or Black_Tiger due to your ignorant rant against the PC Engine. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Don't remeber it jerking around that my on my Amiga 600 . It was gob smacking graphics back in 1992

The graphics are very ambitious for the time. I've always been amazed about how many polygonal games were developed for the Amiga.

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