I could flame about 1991 libraries if that eases out the thing, hehe... oh wait, I think there was some important game on the MD that year. Aside from that, no that much.
Yes the name of this game is FLICKY
I could flame about 1991 libraries if that eases out the thing, hehe... oh wait, I think there was some important game on the MD that year. Aside from that, no that much.
Yes the name of this game is FLICKY
What libraries were these then as Core said back in the MD days SEGA didn't supply libraries or tools , you had to make your own and so they did laugh at people bashing the Saturn tools .Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
The 1st corp to start to change that was Atari with the Lynx I think
*claps*
This thread got crazy for a bit there...
I like all consoles, but I definitely prefer the genesis library to the super Nintendo library. I think that's mostly taste though. I like arcade ports and arcade style games, and the genesis had them in spades.
1991 sounds like an interesting year to me. What games did you have in mind to flame?Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
That's more than fair enough and I agree with you . For me the SNES had the better single player games I liked at that stage of my gaming life , the Mega Drive was in a class of its own for multi player and sports games. That's what me and my mates used for multi player games . I just happened to like the single player modes of Super Castlevania IV , Mario IV and Metroid . That said my fav 16 bit systems was and still is the Mega CD as I just loved the single player modes to Batman Returns 3D stages, the Lunars, Dracula Unleashed , Wing Commander , Popful Mail , Rise of the Dragon , Third World War .Quote:
This thread got crazy for a bit there...
I like all consoles, but I definitely prefer the genesis library to the super Nintendo library. I think that's mostly taste though. I like arcade ports and arcade style games, and the genesis had them in spades.
I really don't get why people just can't accept one likes a system over the other , with out the need for inulsts or making out one it's a fan and all that nonsese . I love the Saturn but if people said I like the PS more for platforms games that more than fair enough
It was a great year for PC Engine, SMS and NES games.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
If even a dozen great games come out within a year, what is there to complain about?
I think that the 4th gen consoles, more than any other generation, inspires a crazy amount of fanboy behavior, but it's totally understandable. Most game players of our age, or at least, people that are in their late 20's - mid 30's now generally had access to one of the 4th gen consoles. We were kids at the time, and not all of us could own multiple consoles, which is much more common now. That lead to some crazy console/franchise devotion, which kinda formed a lot of how some game enthusiasts grew.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
If you had access to both, I think you got the most well rounded, generally positive exposure to what gaming offered in the 90's. Even then, if you were like me, I had a SNES, Genesis, and Game Gear, I still was an avid arcade game enthusiast. A person like me missed out on TG16/PCE offerings, and my exposure to Neo Geo was at the arcade only. (Later in life I bought a NeoGeo cab, but yeah...) Add to that the Amiga, PC/Mac gaming, there was a lot to play. Only the most fortunate had the access, money, and time to really dig into all those libraries, and even then, only the local stuff. (Unless you were even MORE fortunate, and had access to import stores, Etc.)
I think that because of that, people built a real dedication to a particular brand, and that kinda carries on to their adulthood. Even if you are exposed to all the stuff you missed out on, overlooked, ignored, you never really approach it with the same mindset because you're experiencing it in a different context.
It was the exposure, and very real difference in content of each library that helps to form how dedicated most 4th gen gamers are.
I actually think that our generation of game enthusiasts is fortunate to have experienced those moments in video game history. It's not like that at all anymore. There's lots to play, a rich history to explore, research and experience, but the fanaticism, for better or worse, is pretty much gone from current generations, and replaced with petty bickering in regards to which version of the same game is better looking, or more fully takes advantage of its platform, at the most minute levels.
Yeah, it was a great year for computer and arcade games as well (Out of this World, Street Fighter II, and plenty of others).Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
This is the most pants on head retarded thing I've seen posted out of you yet. He said PIXIE not PIXEL. He's making a joke about it being magic. Let's look at the actual interview shall we?:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Source: http://info.sonicretro.org/Jon_Burto...October,_1997)Quote:
Sega Saturn Magazine: What special effects and techniques are you most proud of in the Sonic R engine and why?
Jon Burton: The cross fading "misting" effect, the reflective water, and the compression technique used to calculate visible polygons.
Sega Saturn Magazine: You appear to have an almost Nintendo 64 style of "misting in" scenery as opposed to the usual popup. How was this achieved?
Jon Burton: Pixie Dust.
Sega Saturn Magazine: Okay... Is this engine 100% Travellers Tales' work or did you receive technical assistance from Sega or the Sonic Team?
Jon Burton: Everything we program is 100% original code. We are hopelessly arrogant and always think we can do it better than everyone else.
Notice how the interviewer doesn't follow up with a question like "Oh interesting, can you go into detail about this pixel dust effect?" It's instead an awkward "okay..." and he quickly changes subjects implying it was an awkward attempt at a joke. The misting they are referring to is the N64 like fog effect. That is being done by VDP2 I believe you will find. Which would explain why it's absent on Radiant Emerald since VDP2 is being used to do the transparent effect of that entire level.
He's clearly being arrogant and facetious in the interview. No where in the interview does he mention any kind of dithering or meshing. The only one making that claim is you by making extreme stretches of the imagination.
It was for me. I like being able to know where I am in relation to the rest of the stage so I know if I'm getting too close to the edge or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Because in certain situations it does give an advantage. In Grandia it gives the floor freeing up polygons. In Mass Destruction it does the same thing allowing the game to run at 60fps. It does the same in most 3D fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Where did I knock it in this thread? I don't knock the effect, I knock games that use it poorly and in a gimmicky manner. Like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bIF5B0P3z8
This is an extremely dull and boring use of Mode 7. I'd much rather have the Arcade level.
Again, I'm not knocking Mode 7, I'm knocking games that use it poorly. Sure those nicer looking Saturn games might not be affected by gameplay, they still look a lot nicer and I'd rather play them. Just as I'm sure you'd rather play PS1 versions of some games due to better transparencies and lighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Sure the PS1 can replicate those effects too using polygons or CPU brute force. The Saturn has hardware for it though giving it an advantage when it can be used. It can be used to save polygons and CPU resources which it can't for the PS1.
Again though, I didn't say the Genesis did mode 7 better than the SNES. I simply pointed out it can do it when you said it absolutely cannot. The difference between the Saturn and PS1 comparison is that with the Saturn VDP2 planes can give a significant rendering advantage when applicable. It gives free floors and ceilings freeing up polygons and CPU resources that would have otherwise been wasted. PS1 doing it in software doesn't give it this benefit so there's little point in doing it.
Since you're not really doing lots of 3D rendering on the SNES, that advantage isn't really applicable. It's benefit instead comes down strictly to interesting new games. Which in that area the Genesis being able to do it through software is applicable as doing it at 30fps vs 60fps is still acceptable for that purpose. Yeah the SNES does it better, no one denied that. But the Genesis can still do it to an acceptable level.
So? We can call the Genesis a souped up Master System and the Master System a souped up Colecovision. What's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The 2 player mode issue makes no sense. Why would 2 players cause more clipping than 1 player in the Arcade when the 2 player cabinets have a dedicated board for each screen? If it's anything like Daytona USA machines it's again in a whole different league than the clipping in Saturn Virtua Fighter and Saturn Daytona USA. Same with Virtua Racing and the Rear View. Yeah the clipping is there, but in those instances it's not having an impact on important information reaching the player. In Saturn Virtua Fighter and Saturn Daytona USA it does have an impact in that sense. You can't see enough of the ring to have a sense of where you are on it with certainty and in Daytona USA you can't see far enough a head to react in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You're comparing apples to oranges.
The clipping and flickering happens all the time. The entire stage is never visible which means you don't know how close you are to the edge until you're right on top of it. That's pretty important information to have in a game where you can lose by ring outs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Actually it's not laughable at all. The Saturn development documents even refer to them as sprites, not polygons. The Saturn doesn't really draw polygons, it draws distorted sprites. The Transparency issues stem from that fact. It's slow and the rendering nature of warped sprites has a high chance of pixels being drawn multiple times, resulting in errors. You can see that happening in Sonic R's light trails. If you can ensure that there will be no pixels being drawn more than once then you'll be ok. Otherwise you'll have errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
That issue plus the speed issue and the other rendering quirks is why so many games didn't use them. It's not that the system can't do them, it's that it has a lot of quirks and issues with them.
That's what you say to move the goal posts. You usually start off saying "SATURN CAN'T DO REAL 3D TRANSPARENCIES!" or "MEGA DRIVE CAN'T DO MODE 7!" and when examples are posted you go into these idiot circles and end with the above statement to save face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I already explained it too you multiple times. That video explains it as well. But here, I'll break it down for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
1) VDP1 Transparencies are slow. They take 6 times longer to render than non-transparent sprites. So that could have caused a performance hit. The Light Trails and Shields are not up constantly so their performance impact is most likely minimal.
2) VDP1 Transparencies have issues when VDP2 is involved. Either they belnd well with VDP2 but hide VDP1 objects, or they blend with VDP1 objects and hide VDP2 objects. You can't have both. This probably would have resulted in things looking really odd. Again the Sheilds and Light Trails aren't up that often to make this an issue.
3) Radiant Emerald is NOT Made of transparent polygons. It is instead done by clever use of VDP2 layering. The track is drawn into the frame buffer first, then the shimmer layer is applied by VDP2. Then VDP2 draws the space background layer overtop as a transparency. Then finally the non transparent models are laid overtop. This gives the illusion that the track is transparent, even though it is not.
In short, the shadows are not rendered as VDP1 transparencies because it would have been either two slow, or caused unwanted rendering errors, or both. Again I have explained this to you before. Please take the time to read and understand it this time. If you don't understand something, ask.
:horse:Just let it die already. :horse:
Trekkies might as well be talking to a brick wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Does this forum not understand the meaning of "drop it?"
There's plenty the genesis did well and plenty it didnt. There's plenty the snes did well and plenty it didnt. Both have stellar examples and both have their share of shit. I don't see the point of this thread, you don't HAVE to play the snes, you can go on enjoying your genesis without putting the other system and it's capabilities down.
I could have worded the thread title a little better, which stopped being the main point after the first 50 to 100 posts. All I wanted was some answers about why SNES fanboys take issue to when someone might not be a huge fan of their system, even if said person likes it. Some people want to have the last word on certain things, like Trekkies and Team Andromeda. Any way to shut a topic like this down?Quote:
Originally Posted by cabear