Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

Color count has nothing to do with RAM accesses though? I mean you could probably just do palette swaps if you felt like it. They probably just decided it wasn't worth trying to push it further in that regard.

Also these are the guys behind the Dezaemon series. I think they know how to make competent shmups =P (also looked up and wait, the first Dezaemon was for the Famicom? and apparently happily goes at 60FPS? erm yeah I think the SNES was definitely not a problem for them)

EDIT: there's a point in the third stage where there are literally so many bullets they start flickering like crazy and the game still goes along as if nothing was amiss (・ω・；) (skip to 4:55 for that specific part)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dW03pJElZA

So yeah, if they could afford to do that on the NES (well, Famicom) then I don't think they saw the SNES as problematic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Also there were times the Snes outdid the Mega Drive for Arcade ports .. Sunset Riders, Smash TV (a sprite intensive game) are much better onthe Snes that the MD. Sometimes the PC-Eng can out do both the MD and Snes

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I don't agree with the Sunset Riders part. They're quit different versions overall. And I personally prefer the Genesis version over SNES. SNES version feels like just a boss rush with pretty empty levels. Meanwhile the Genesis version cuts the bosses in half, and doubles the amount of actual level gameplay. That and that native boss is crazy hard in the SNES version. Otherwise I thought Konami did a great job on the Genesis with a 4 meg cart VS SNES 8 meg cart (I'm guessing cart space also might of made Konami not be able to add the isometric look to all Genesis stages. As is, some stages have it, and some don't). And too bad the colouring was so off on Genesis, but thankfully at least someone from Sega-16 fixed that for us, and fixed it real good. (Sorry I forgot your name, but again, thanks a lot for the excellent colour hack)

Smash TV I'm not familiar with. But looking it up, I'm shocked to find that Beam Software actually handled a decent game (SNES version). Genesis version I just had this feeling it was Probe, and I was right. Probe stamp of approval came up when I quickly fired up this game. :p Otherwise both carts are 4 megs. And it was two entirely different developers (even if both were pretty shit). But I doubt even Konami used the exact same guys for Genesis/SNES ports, at least Konami had enough talented folks working for them.

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Originally Posted by Thief

And it was two entirely different developers (even if both were pretty shit). But I doubt even Konami used the exact same guys for Genesis/SNES ports, at least Konami had enough talented folks working for them.

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Every time the Mega Drive out does the Snes it doesn't matter if its made by a different developer , when the Snes out does the MD its not made by the same developer and somehow not fair then . I would guess very very few MD and Snes games were handle by the same teams

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I don't agree with the Sunset Riders part. They're quit different versions overall. And I personally prefer the Genesis version over SNES. SNES version feels like just a boss rush with pretty empty levels.

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That's fair enough but to me the Snes version is way-way better than the MD version .

I just played some both versions of Smash TV, and I just can't get into this game (I have a problem getting into these Midway developed Arcade games). But noticed they have a different gameplay feel from playing just the first few minutes. Genesis has more room horizontally and enemies move faster. While the stages in SNES feel more like square and the enemies don't move as fast, but there's more of them. Playing with Genesis single controller scheme really seems wear out your thumb real fast. Otherwise, I'd really like to hear a more in depth opinion on these ports and how they compare from someone who beat both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Every time the Mega Drive out does the Snes it doesn't matter if its made by a different developer , when the Snes out does the MD its not made by the same developer and somehow not fair then . I would guess very very few MD and Snes games were handle by the same teams

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I don't know. I think games like MK1 and 2 would of been a lot better if Sculptured Software handled both ports. And MK3 proves this.

Sunset Riders if I remember was supposed to be like the arcade version when it was on the SNES.

Smash TV is a Williams game from Eugene Jarvis. It's meant to be hard. Anyone that could not get into Robotron 2084 will not get into this. Never played a 16-bit version, but have the NES version, which is pretty decent. At least you can use two controllers for that version. Otherwise, outside of NBA Jam, I have never been a huge fan on Midway arcade offerings.

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Originally Posted by Thief

I don't know. I think games like MK1 and 2 would of been a lot better if Sculptured Software handled both ports. And MK3 proves this.

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You could say that about so many games and I say it with regards to Saturn games, but if people are going to compare SOR to Final fight and have no issues even though it made by initially different teams then it shouldn't be an issue for other games . Give the Snes a break its the one time it handle a busy screen and loads of sprites better than the MD lol

Biometal music is better on japanese version, this euro dance on snes version is irrelevant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You could say that about so many games and I say it with regards to Saturn games, but if people are going to compare SOR to Final fight and have no issues even though it made by initially different teams then it shouldn't be an issue for other games . Give the Snes a break its the one time it handle a busy screen and loads of sprites better than the MD lol

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I think it's more of a case by case basis. For games like Mortal Kombat, you can clearly tell there's some laziness involved from Probe's port. They couldn't even get the track order right on the Sega CD version. We also see that when the same team handled both ports, such as with Mortal Kombat 3, the gap narrows considerably between both versions.

If both games are done by different teams but both appear to be doing the best that could be done, I think most people are fine with comparing them. However when one port is clearly a more lazy port than the other, you can't help but wonder what could have been if a different team handled it.

For example, we don't really complain about port quality differences and say one doesn't count due to lazy porting between Powerslave on the Saturn and PS1, or Quake on the Saturn or N64. Both of those comparisons appear to be with games that are doing the best that could be done for those games at the time. But when we look at Saturn Doom we all immediately go "What would we have gotten had Lobotomy Software handled this port?"

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

But when we look at Saturn Doom we all immediately go "What would we have gotten had Lobotomy Software handled this port?"

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Not really there's a story as to why the Saturn port is so bad and it comes from id- who banned RAGE from using the Saturn extra hardware and wanted a straight PS port and just to use the CPU's and I'm really not making that up .

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you can clearly tell there's some laziness involved from Probe's port

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It doesn't work like that though . Saturn ports are always knocked for the gulf in graphics even if in most cases it by another team and done on the cheap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I think it's more of a case by case basis. For games like Mortal Kombat, you can clearly tell there's some laziness involved from Probe's port. They couldn't even get the track order right on the Sega CD version. We also see that when the same team handled both ports, such as with Mortal Kombat 3, the gap narrows considerably between both versions.

If both games are done by different teams but both appear to be doing the best that could be done, I think most people are fine with comparing them. However when one port is clearly a more lazy port than the other, you can't help but wonder what could have been if a different team handled it.

For example, we don't really complain about port quality differences and say one doesn't count due to lazy porting between Powerslave on the Saturn and PS1, or Quake on the Saturn or N64. Both of those comparisons appear to be with games that are doing the best that could be done for those games at the time. But when we look at Saturn Doom we all immediately go "What would we have gotten had Lobotomy Software handled this port?"

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This.

TA is so annoying these days. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Not really there's a story as to why the Saturn port is so bad and it comes from id- who banned RAGE from using the Saturn extra hardware and wanted a straight PS port and just to use the CPU's and I'm really not making that up .

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And if that's the case that's even more reason to say that port is garbage and isn't a fair comparison. That just makes me think even more now about what would we have gotten had Sega stepped in and insisted Lobotomy handle the port using their Slavedriver engine.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

It doesn't work like that though . Saturn ports are always knocked for the gulf in graphics even if in most cases it by another team and done on the cheap

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Sometimes yes, but other times it's justified. Such as the case with Saturn Doom, or Saturn Symphony of the Night.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Give the Snes a break its the one time it handle a busy screen and loads of sprites better than the MD lol

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I'm guessing this is in response to Smash TV. All I requested was a more extensive opinion from someone who extensively played both these ports.

And give the SNES a break? Well, lets see; just 5 days ago I've beat Chrono Trigger, this past month I came pretty close to beating Axelay, and I'm currently over 8 hours in on a FF6 playthrough. VS no Genesis games that I've played recently. So lets not look at me as a stuck up Genesis fanboy. SNES was my first 16-Bit console.

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Originally Posted by Sik

Color count has nothing to do with RAM accesses though? I mean you could probably just do palette swaps if you felt like it. They probably just decided it wasn't worth trying to push it further in that regard.

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Are you sure about that?

The more colors you use, the more memory space that will be needed to store the color information. A lot of shooters will group a bunch of enemies that look alike, because it saves memory space and the need to store more sprite data in RAM.

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Originally Posted by Thief

I'm guessing this is in response to Smash TV. All I requested was a more extensive opinion from someone who extensively played both these ports.

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Eh, as far as technical-wise goes, they're about as good as you normally would expect from each system.

The problem is the controls. This game really needs to be a twin-stick shooter, you get enemies coming from just about everywhere. This is not much of a problem for the SNES due to the rhomubs layout of the ABXY buttons: you just use the D-pad to move and the buttons to aim. On the Mega Drive though? You're pretty much stuck with aiming with the D-pad, and the hold button isn't really good enough this time. The alternative is to use the D-pads from two controllers, but due to the shape of the controllers this is just too awkward to be feasible. Contrast with the NES port, where you get the same option but the shape of the controllers makes it much more bearable, in fact it feels more like a wiimote with the nunchuck, and it also supports the multitap (unlike the Mega Drive counterpart) so this works even with two players (two controllers each).

Smash TV on the Mega Drive is unplayable and it entirely boils down to the controls.

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Originally Posted by Barone

This.

TA is so annoying these days. :(

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It's called being fair, which you seem not to like . Lets compare Final Fight to Streets Of Rage , never mind they're made by completely different teams , but lets not compare Mortal Kombat or Smash TV because they're made by different teams . I know you're trying so hard to make the Mega Drive look brilliant , but maybe you're going a little too far .

I wouldn't say too much, but I did point out that it wasn't really fair to compare VR on the 32X to the Saturn as they were made by different teams .

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And if that's the case that's even more reason to say that port is garbage and isn't a fair comparison.

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Hey I was all for hating on RAGE, but then I saw feature and it turns out the Team hands were tide by id.

[IMG]https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5345/2...2c4cd3f8_h.jpg2016-09-25_10-15-01 by Mega Drive, on Flickr[/IMG]

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Sometimes yes, but other times it's justified. Such as the case with Saturn Doom, or Saturn Symphony of the Night

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I agree, but it happend all the time with the Saturn . Prope even posted it only used one SH-2 for its Alien Trilogy Saturn port and yet the PS fanboys and PS loving press were all so quick to point out the Saturn game looked worse as more proff of the Saturn being underpowered . Yet when Saturn games looked better like Mass Desruction, Exhumed, Duke , Souky, Grandia, Street Racer hardly a word is said (bar the Saturn faithful)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thief

I'm guessing this is in response to Smash TV. All I requested was a more extensive opinion from someone who extensively played both these ports.

And give the SNES a break? Well, lets see; just 5 days ago I've beat Chrono Trigger, this past month I came pretty close to beating Axelay, and I'm currently over 8 hours in on a FF6 playthrough. VS no Genesis games that I've played recently. So lets not look at me as a stuck up Genesis fanboy. SNES was my first 16-Bit console.

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Good for you, but I'm not talking gameplay or good games . Just that Smash TV was one of the few Snes games that beat the MD for sprite handling on screen . I had both and the MD version is ok gfx wise its the controls where it really falls down , while the Snes version is really really close to the Arcade game and its not just sprite handling that's better with the Snes, so is colour, control and sound .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

It's called being fair, which you seem not to like . Lets compare Final Fight to Streets Of Rage , never mind they're made by completely different teams , but lets not compare Mortal Kombat or Smash TV because they're made by different teams . I know you're trying so hard to make the Mega Drive look brilliant , but maybe you're going a little too far .

I wouldn't say too much, but I did point out that it wasn't really fair to compare VR on the 32X to the Saturn as they were made by different teams .

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I'm don't think I said like that? (Hope not & too lazy to check) Because both developers are pants anyways, therefore fair comparison, no? I just brought the developer thing up because it is a good point to keep in mind.

And Capcom messed up every beat 'em up they've developed in house for SNES anyway (though Knights of the Round & the first Final Fight are still fine enough to me). Otherwise the best SNES Capcom beat 'em up is The King of Dragon, which no surprise, was outsourced. So yes, I would keep SNES Capcom incompetence in mind when comparing to SoR series. Especially after that thread I did on Capcom showing how much SNES Capcom really didn't live up to their over praised standard on SNES (because of course everyone knew for sure didn't live up on Genesis) outside of a few exceptions and Arcade ports (because Arcade Capcom were kings back then, that even poor SNES ports were still very good. ie. FF1 flawed port is still way, way better then SNES Capcom developed exclusives FF2 & 3).

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Originally Posted by Thief

I'm don't think I said like that? (Hope not & too lazy to check) Because both developers are pants anyways, therefore fair comparison, no? I just brought the developer thing up because it is a good point to keep in mind.
.

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I don't think your name is Barone tbh , But in the 16 bit and 32 bit days different teams (even with-in the same company) would be tasked with handling the ports . I agree Capcom were rubbish in the 16 bit days it was very clear Arcade was their main focus . Konami were much better than Capcom or Namco in the 16 bit days, it wasn't untill the 32 bit days that Namco and Capcom really took home users seriously imo, SEGA to a point too

Looking over all that Streets Of Rage II was an In-House title it would have all the tech and development resources to hand and any issues with Hardware, they'll only have to go up the floor to the R&D and get an answer . So on that reason it not a fair comparsion .

@TA
You have been rambling and triple posting for days. It's rather annoying to see several different threads being bogged down by the same nonsense shit.
Give it a break, man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thief

Especially after that thread I did on Capcom showing how much SNES Capcom really didn't live up to their over praised standard on SNES (because of course everyone knew for sure didn't live up on Genesis) outside of a few exceptions and Arcade ports (because Arcade Capcom were kings back then, that even poor SNES ports were still very good. ie. FF1 flawed port is still way, way better then SNES Capcom developed exclusives FF2 & 3).

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Top :

Demon's crest, rockman x ( 3 episodes ), rockman and bass.

Very good :

Rockman 7, magical quest 1 and 3, super ghouls'n ghosts. ( not top because it lacks the intensity of GNG cps 1 )

Good :

Magical quest 2, x-men mutant apocalypse, marvel war of gems, final fight 3, Aladdin.

I don't count arcade ports when arcade versions are better.

If i count arcade port, it would be remake as ninja warriors again, atomic runner md for examples.
Or great port which add some contents.
For example, bloody wolf are both interesting on arcade and pc engine.
Same thing for Edf arcade with super edf snes. ( both interesting )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Top :

Demon's crest, rockman x ( 3 episodes ), rockman and bass.

Very good :

Rockman 7, magical quest 1 and 3, super ghouls'n ghosts. ( not top because it lacks the intensity of GNG cps 1 )

Good :

Magical quest 2, x-men mutant apocalypse, marvel war of gems, final fight 3, Aladdin.

I don't count arcade ports when arcade versions are better.

If i count arcade port, it would be remake as ninja warriors again, atomic runner md for examples.
Or great port which add some contents.
For example, bloody wolf are both interesting on arcade and pc engine.
Same thing for Edf arcade with super edf snes. ( both interesting )

---

From what I played of Demons Crest (I think just past that underwater shell boss? And I got sick of forcing myself to continue playing), it doesn't seem that good at all. This video kind of sums up my point too;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvx8Dgad8I0

Compare that review to this review;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--kXkVAr-HQ



As for the Mickey Trilogy, X-Men, Marvel, and Aladdin games, they feel exactly like typical cookie cutter licensed fodder to me and what inspired me to further dig deeper on SNES Capcom's profile (I also much prefer the Genesis X-Men and Disney games). FF2 & 3 are no way as good as the first SNES FF1/Guy Arcade port. So what's left as above average that's not an Arcade port then? Just Mega Man, SGnG, BoF1 (I guess part 2 too), and maybe Goof Troops. Especially considering how high everybody praises Capcom, having so many average or below average SNES games was a wake up call to me personally.

Anyway, here's my original thread where I talked about this already; http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=capcom

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Originally Posted by Barone

@TA
You have been rambling and triple posting for days. It's rather annoying to see several different threads being bogged down by the same nonsense shit.
Give it a break, man.

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No you just don't like it because you want to make the Mega Drive look brilliant and poo on the Snes .

Thief, to me demon's crest and rockman series on snes are top notch.
I like both super famicom and megadrive japanese.
I don't think as a megadrive fanboy, i'm more a 2d fanboy, i like 2d games whatever the platform.

So, as a 2d fan and not a megadrive fan, i will say this.

Final fight like : megadrive wins thanks to Street of rage series.
Kung fu master or Vigilante like : super famicom wins thanks to Ninja warriors. Comix zone is not nervous as arcade games because of gameplay mechanics.
Horizontal shmup : megadrive wins. ( thunder force 4, battlemania 2, gleylancer, eleminate down etc...)
Vertical shmup : seriously, on megadrive there is just Musha aleste. On snes, you have super aleste and pop'n twinbee. So i prefer super famicom on vertical shmup.
Top-down scrolling : Twinkle tale and elemental master for megadrive , but i prefer pocky and rocky serie on super famicom.
Gun-shooting : megadrive wins, i like Body Count.
Cabal-like : wild guns on snes. I don't know a single cabal-like on megadrive. Snes wins.
Shinobi-like : megadrive wins thanks to numerous shinobi-like. Hagane is on level of super shinobi 2 ( shinobi 3) but on megadrive, you have also super shinobi ( revenge of shinobi and shadow dancer )

When you think about categories, it is more complicated to decide who is the best.

Trying to find another SNES game to play that I've never played (FF6 I've played before, still remember it's story too well, and just don't want to continue playing because since RPGs like this are mostly all about story and no gameplay...), and decided to give Secret of Mana another try. But it's one of those games where they're forcing you to choose your own hero name. I don't like that. So I google searched what it's supposed to be, and then as I went to spell it out I noticed the low resolution issue with that...

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/...n%20issues.png

Lucky I still remember my alphabets. :p

Ahh, the curses of a half-width font over a variable-width font. It'll happen with any English game that uses only half-width. Check out that N and M! :D

There is ways to work around it, but it can make the font kind of ugly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Thief, to me demon's crest and rockman series on snes are top notch.
I like both super famicom and megadrive japanese.
I don't think as a megadrive fanboy, i'm more a 2d fanboy, i like 2d games whatever the platform.

So, as a 2d fan and not a megadrive fan, i will say this.

Final fight like : megadrive wins thanks to Street of rage series.
Kung fu master or Vigilante like : super famicom wins thanks to Ninja warriors. Comix zone is not nervous as arcade games because of gameplay mechanics.
Horizontal shmup : megadrive wins. ( thunder force 4, battlemania 2, gleylancer, eleminate down etc...)
Vertical shmup : seriously, on megadrive there is just Musha aleste. On snes, you have super aleste and pop'n twinbee. So i prefer super famicom on vertical shmup.
Top-down scrolling : Twinkle tale and elemental master for megadrive , but i prefer pocky and rocky serie on super famicom.
Gun-shooting : megadrive wins, i like Body Count.
Cabal-like : wild guns on snes. I don't know a single cabal-like on megadrive. Snes wins.
Shinobi-like : megadrive wins thanks to numerous shinobi-like. Hagane is on level of super shinobi 2 ( shinobi 3) but on megadrive, you have also super shinobi ( revenge of shinobi and shadow dancer )

When you think about categories, it is more complicated to decide who is the best.

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- There are more beat em ups then just SoR and FF. And SNES has way more beat 'em ups overall. Actually, SNES had more of everything in most genres thanks to deeper third party support. Only at times it feels too much like quantity over quality. ie. No turn based SRPG on SNES compares to Shining Force series. And smooth scrolling Shining in the Darkness seems like the better dungeon crawler over SNES choppy scrolling Arcana (I still need to give Arcana another try. It actually was the choppy dungeon scrolling that scared me away the first time... that card theme sucks the big one too).
- Two Crude Dudes on Genesis seems like a good single plane 2D scrolling beat em up Arcade port for Genesis. Not sure how that fares against SNES Ninja Warriors. Or even against Sega CD original Ninja Warriors. I only made enough progress in SNES Ninja Warriors myself (last boss kicked my butt good).
- I don't agree with the vert shooters thing. Vert or not, Genesis still has quite the edge in this genre over SNES in my opinion. Only SNES shooters I really enjoy in a nutshell are the Konami and two R-Type games. Incidentally, the two things missing on Genesis. ... And what the heck, MUSHA isn't the only Genesis vert, lol. :p ... oh wait, SNES also has Aero Fighters too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flygon

Ahh, the curses of a half-width font over a variable-width font. It'll happen with any English game that uses only half-width. Check out that N and M! :D

There is ways to work around it, but it can make the font kind of ugly.

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Yeah, it was the M and N that made me go "What the heck?!" (Hero's name is Randi)

But for those wondering, there is a solution around it for this particular game. There's a more accurate translation of this game by Aeon Genesis, I believe? And those guys do quality work. So I'm sure they've come up with a better font. Only I think I want to play the Ted Wolseley original translation first time through, even though he did have a lot of trouble getting it all to fit in and had to cut a ton of stuff out...

Thief, i don't count arcade ports that are inferior port against arcade version.
On vertical shoot, i forgot Verytex. But i prefer snes vertical shoot because for me, Pop'n twin bee is superior to super aleste and musha aleste.
My ranking :
1- Pop'n twinbee
2-Musha Aleste
3- Super Aleste

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Thief, i don't count arcade ports that are inferior port against arcade version.
On vertical shoot, i forgot Verytex. But i prefer snes vertical shoot because for me, Pop'n twin bee is superior to super aleste and musha aleste.
My ranking :
1- Pop'n twinbee
2-Musha Aleste
3- Super Aleste

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Oh, so you're masochist enough to handle something like the single player Arcade version of Fire Shark (Same! Same! Same!) over the Genesis version? (The 2 player easier Arcade version removes the side to side movement, among other things like instant respawn - I think?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or9SNdwf-M0

As for other exclusive Genesis verts besides MUSHA and Verteyx, there's; Elemental Master, Slap Fight (is an improved version with extras), and Undead Line.

Anyway, turns out the font is fine in game, but there's a new problem. Even switching from S-Video to Composite (minus artifacts) video mode, low res dithering just doesn't seem to want to blend.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/...ansparency.png

But the main reason I'm posting this, is why would the programmers choose dithering over transparency for this instance? I know they had to have ran into some limitation with this engine and setup they've came up with for this game. Can anyone think of it?

^Are you just now starting Secret of Mana? It's funny because I began playing it on/off a few weeks ago and was also totally perplexed by the dialogue boxes; with the dithered infill they are too difficult to read as the text gets lost against the backgrounds! Luckily the options allow you a few alternatives and I found the one you have pictured above but without any fill. Reads much better.

I actually beat the first Secret of Mana (Final Fantasy Adventure) earlier this year, but boy did I have a tough time. Secret of Mana (SNES) so far has been pretty pleasant.

Yes, I'm just starting this game now too. There's lots of popular games I can't believe I've still yet to play, like Cybernator, that's I've even thought about starting a thread on this subject. Since I can't be the only weirdo. :p (But I start enough shit threads, so meh)

Glad to hear SoM is working out for you. Hopefully it works out for me too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thief

Yes, I'm just starting this game now too. There's lots of popular games I can't believe I've still yet to play, like Cybernator, that's I've even thought about starting a thread on this subject. Since I can't be the only weirdo. :p (But I start enough shit threads, so meh)

Glad to hear SoM is working out for you. Hopefully it works out for me too.

---

Yeah man, Secret of Mana is great so far. The only problem I had starting out is as you run your characters do not stay centered on screen (I'm sure you've noticed :p); I felt like I risked running into enemies all of the time but there is a setting under 'action grid' to avoid that with an automatic attack or defensive action. That took a while to get used to but I guess this is to allow for three characters acting on screen at once.

And I'm totally in the same boat with Cybernator. I love that game but I keep just playing the first level over and over, haha. If you end up enjoying Cybernator, you must play Front Mission: Gun Hazard. Many of the same programmers/designers were involved so it's almost like a spiritual RPGesque sequel and is perhaps my favorite game. And not just on SNES, like, Gun Hazard is one of my most beloved games I've ever played.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfWzonnY1cI

^Haha, sorry, just had to share.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thief

Anyway, turns out the font is fine in game, but there's a new problem. Even switching from S-Video to Composite (minus artifacts) video mode, low res dithering just doesn't seem to want to blend.

But the main reason I'm posting this, is why would the programmers choose dithering over transparency for this instance? I know they had to have ran into some limitation with this engine and setup they've came up with for this game. Can anyone think of it?

---

The SNES can only do a single tile layer of transparency. Square likes to spam it and games like Chrono Trigger have layers fading in and out so that different transparency effects can take place.

In Secret of Mana, they must have not wanted to juggle transparency effects and thought that dithered windows are cool, as many developers used them.

Otherwise they couldn't do stuff like this:

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/somt1.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thief

Yeah, it was the M and N that made me go "What the heck?!" (Hero's name is Randi)

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I have drawn up a Half-Width Font with discernable letters all-round, but I don't think it'd be easy to read over RF/Composite anyway (project concept is on the Master System... SMSIIs only have RF :? ).

Regarding the transparency stuff, this's why I enjoy the Mega Drive's Shadow/Highlight modes. Much easier to throw about with impunity, rather than the SNES's layering problems. :D
Not that setup for that isn't a pain in the ass, either. But you can get some really cool effects mixing Shadow and Highlight together that you can't achieve with the SNES's alpha transparency!

I'm not a fan of the game but Road Runner: Death Valley Rally looked nice and ran pretty fast for a Snes game and also had some great music and Terranigma made some nice use of the various Snes Mode effects too

You know, for SNES being able to choose from and display more colours, why do the devs so often choose such faded colours. This can be so annoying in action packed shooting games like Axelay, since everything blends in so easily.

I just want to say Front Mission: Gun Hazard is one of the greatest RPGs I have ever played.

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Originally Posted by Thief

You know, for SNES being able to choose from and display more colours, why do the devs so often choose such faded colours. This can be so annoying in action packed shooting games like Axelay, since everything blends in so easily.

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Because it gets to a point where you have too many shades to pick and start filling in the gaps not exactly in the smartest way possible. Also that artists love pastel colors (I keep getting criticized for preferring going towards the saturated end of the spectrum). So yeah, entirely an human issue here, pixelart on VGA had the same exact issue (hence the ugly gradient fest many of those games had).

The ideal thing is to go high contrast for foreground and low contrast for background, but for whatever reason people are prone to go all high or all low contrast.