peritel is actually the French name for SCART, I'm on the same thing, with a Genesis 1 though. But dithering still very present on (modded) european Mega Drives and also Genesis 3
Am I the only one who sees dented white/gray not blending at all in Donald's bottom on the infamous screenshot? Even at this small size it's still clearly visible. Same thing when on a CRT.
After doing that Sonic recoloring using the SMS palette, I realized that the first Sonic game is actually very NES-color-friendly. Both the general colors of elements in that scene and the fact that everything uses only 4 - 5 shades.
So I was able to make something that looks good for the most part.
SMS color:
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/sonic_sms_colord.png
NES color:
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/sonic_nes_colord.png
But after going through the palette and trying to mix shades from different colors, I'm all the more convinced that it's not nearly as good as the SMS palette for most cases. Aside from some crucial colors that aren't really available at all, just the fact that it's a random assortment of colors with inconsistent shades of each, it just doesn't have the flexibility of an RGB palette, where even when the values jump in large steps as it does in the SMS palette, it's still a full spectrum with every color able to transition to any other.
Black Tiger: The NES link doesn't work unfortunately.
Here's SMW with the SMS palette, placed in Alex Kidd (could be more otimized in spots though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPOarUAzWig
http://img.youtube.com/vi/bPOarUAzWig/0.jpg
That's why i have always favored japaneses consoles with rgb scart, because 60 hz on full screen and very good art and colourful manuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
In France, in 1991 i had pc engine coregrafx ( scart rgb modified by Sodipeng importer ) , so 60 Hz full screen, beautiful scanlines ( scart rgb ) and great visuals inserts and manuals with japanese art style.
I went from nes to the pc engine, you imagine the shock.
but there sould not be differences between genesis ntsc 60hz and japanese MD 60 hz on the same CRT via RGB, right? cause I'm on the first case and I clearly see all the dithering of the latter games (on SCART of course, because how do you RGB other than with that on an unmodded console?)
The RGB vs composite debate is an interesting one and deserving of it's own thread. For me, some games look better in rgb, others in composite. Arcade ports with really tight pixel art often look better in rgb to me, for example. Later Genesis games with lots of composite dithering tricks (Comix Zone, Vectorman, Lion King, etc) tend to look better on composite to me (although I don't mind dithering in rgb for the most part).
Don't know i'm not in US, but normally there shouldn't be differences. It depends also on your CRT model.
Nicely done, and surprisingly I don't think the NES one looks much worse. I'd probably prefer the SMS one on a TV screen though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Ooooo playing with palettes, one more chance to show off the DB16 palette :p
http://i.imgur.com/oHphyXb.png
Looks eerily close to the magazine screenshots of the beta version :)
Now that you mention it... it really kinda does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alianger
For shits and giggles I made a C64 palette version. I don't want to hear anyone complain about the NES or SMS palettes after this xD.
(To be fair it is not that bad of a palette, the other colour limitations of the system are what really make it bad)
http://i.imgur.com/LL3MKmr.png
Just do CGA and be done with it already =P
Now now, lets be reasonable.
ZX Spectrum please!
I cannot be held responsible for my actions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
http://i.imgur.com/9sMFoRP.png
Made a CPC one just to feel a little better about myself.
http://i.imgur.com/8xDWVg4.png
Thank God for the 4th gen consoles.
The ZX spectrum palette is really something else xD. I should make one with the Atari 800 palette cuz that one is really good.
EDIT: I actually made a version with the Atari 800 palette, but there is little point in posting it since it is so close to the original. Amazing for a 1979 machine.
That isn't Speccy enough! Where's the rule of "One 8*8 tile can only have 2 colours, whatsoever"? :D
those color palettes looks pretty nice honestly! especially the C64 one that looks almost exactly like the Genesis hardware and as for CPC one it looks like you added scanlines to it.
Why do so many SNES games seem to have input lag.
Blame Nintendo :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Thief
Actually, there's an explanation for this. There's always a one-frame buffer between yourself inputting a button, and the button actually being recognized.
This's really annoying when trying to perform SNES TAS's, because you basically gotta try and plan two frames in advance, and that's a lot more tedious than you'd think.
Is just me or are a lot of Super NES crossplatform games look stretched horizontally? The Mega Drive/Genesis games look to me as they were intended when side by side.
I see it here in the timbers on the walls in the first act Santa's Hallway as a good example.
It's because the SNES resolution is like NES, more of an 1:1 aspect ratio then 4:3 one as on Genesis hi-res mode. So all SNES games are stretched to 4:3 aspect ratio of TVs back then. Sprite artists had to keep this in mind while drawing. Both for Genesis to SNES ports and vice versa, they obviously weren't going to waste a ton of development time to re-draw everything. So it's either stretched (SNES Earthworm Jim) or squished (Genesis Zombies Ate My Neighbours) on the vertical line.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeDeeNo76
For example, in this video, the guy compares both consoles in pixel perfect aspect ratio. The the SNES looks more like a 1:1 square, while Genesis looks more like a 4:3 rectangle. Notice how the Earthworm Jim sprites are exactly the same fatness on both consoles in their native pixel perfect aspect ratio?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYaJke21s0E&index=2&list=PL0lvxf9K4QWplGPv m1ECV6LPLGGfUSqJM
While for MK2 the developer kept in mind that the sprites would be stretched on SNES and made them thinner while drawing them in pixel perfect mode. So that when it's stretched to 4:3, it would match the same character fatness as Genesis. (Though of course this means the sprites use less pixels, thus are less detailed on SNES)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ATYrLk1y5E&index=1&list=PL0lvxf9K4QWplGPv m1ECV6LPLGGfUSqJM
Some PCE games have a hi-res mode option. Only it usually letterboxes the games, thus squishing the horizontal plane. So what I do when I play these PCE Shooting games is check to see is my speeds across the horizontal axis is the same as the vertical one. If not, I either not use Hi-Res mode or still keep it in Hi-Res mode, but further stretch the image since this it's possible to do via emulation aspect ratio options.
So my eye does not lie. :) But I think Zombies Ate My Neighbors is a bad example because of the black info bar on the right of the Genesis version.
Edit: They put these (1.1 and 4.3) options into the NES Mini.
It's even more restrictive then that, each 8x8 tile can only have 2 colours of the same intensity :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
Replicating that sonic screenshot using the actual platform limitations would pretty much require redrawing everything from scratch.
I just wanted to show that both the SMS and NES master palettes are great compared to the alternatives.
The black bar is the only reason anything will be squished on Genesis Hi-Res mode if directly ported from SNES. Sure Konami could of just used Genesis low-res mode to match SNES resolution exactly, like most games did, but they did it like that to better squeeze extra info needed. That and SNES has easier time with life bars and what not, because SNES has an extra background layer it can dedicate this to. While Genesis, on the other hand, usually brute forces this with sprites (Circus Mystery) or black border (TMNT Hyper Stone).Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeDeeNo76
Only for TMNT Hyper Stone (which is low-res to match SNES exactly, by the way), we lose some background graphics due to black bar for health display cutting it off (in SNES, you can see more background graphics behind lifebars). Versus in Zombies, we lose nothing due to extra information display being handled in the horizontal resolution of Genesis hi-res mode. Only side affect to this is squished image.
I'd love to see a list of games on the SNES and Genesis that show less of the playfield in the SNES version because of stretched pixels. Itchy & Scratchy is one, and it really affects the gameplay. I suspect there must be more.
(Then, I suppose, we'd have a list of Genesis games that lose screen real estate to HUD features that are transparent in the SNES version. Toys is one of those.)
Lion King is one where it really affects the gameplay. I can manage the double ostrich jump on the MD version. The SNES one is next to impossible for me, the extra input delay just makes it even worse.
Phantom 2040 does it too. Even more amusing, the weapon screen is 256px (like on SNES) but in-game it's 320px. This means the health bar will change size when you go change your weapons. Whoops?
I believe that many Genesis games also distort the original perspective by porting elements pixel for pixel, but the games use a different resolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenband
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturndual32
I was having a deeper look into Joe & Mac and things are more interesting than I first realized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
SNES version seems to run/scroll/move things on the screen at 30 fps vs 60 fps of the MD version.
Some bosses seem to animate slower on the SNES as well, like the carnivorous plant one. If it's animated at 30 fps on the MD, it might be 20 fps or maybe 15 fps on the SNES.
By looking at the SNES VRAM on debuggers, it's actually loading a lot of the sprites to VRAM when needed in order to fit things inside the 16 kBytes limitation; on the MD all the enemies animations is loaded to VRAM just once, 'cause it has enough room for that.
This need of constantly transferring stuff to the VRAM might be the reason why they capped the frame rate in the SNES version and why some enemies animate slower; according to some nesdev discussions I'm reading lately (Killer Instinct animates just one fighter per frame AFAIK, Mickey Mania also capped the frame rate of the enemies animation, etc.).
The size reduction of enemies on the SNES version seems to be related to the VRAM area dedicated for each one of them in the sprite system they implemented for this game.
Each enemy has to fit its sprites inside an arbitrary amount of space (1 kB for regular enemies and 2 kB for most bosses). And these sprites are double-buffered for some reason (pardon me for my sheer ignorance here).
Another interesting info which gives a notion of how the limitation of having to choose just two sprite sizes on the SNES can make things way more complicated is:
The main character uses two sprites for his standing frame in the MD version. On the SNES it uses eight sprites.
Two sprites for the crouching frame on the MD. Four sprites on the SNES.
Four sprites on the MD for the regular jump frame. Ten sprites on the SNES.
But Barone, every tech spec list for the SNES says 128 on the sprite category vs 80 on the Genesis. Even the Nerd said so! Clearly that must mean it is better at handling sprites. Same for the 512 pixel maximum resolution, that is totally what every game ran at and why they look so much better.
/s
shhhhhhhh
Ben Heck may hear you and he'll spread those expert secrets in his next "in-depth" hardware analysis.
I still don't get why people for both sides of the camp , just can't give each machine credit . Both systems were brilliant and did stuff the other system would have issues with . So it was great to own both systems and enjoyed what both had to offer
I only wished the Mega CD ASIC chip was used more for effects like this ingame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--RQL87dE2s&fmt=18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk2FgvwfxrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk2FgvwfxrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMSn3Rf8pY8
Because people see a larger sprite count and think it's better without realizing there's another limitation that negates this benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
This said, there is one thing the SNES sprite system has that is better no matter how you look at it: any 8px silvers that are off-screen don't factor into the bandwidth no matter the size of the sprite, while on the Mega Drive even off-screen sprites eat bandwidth. This gives the SNES some more wiggle room before hitting the scanline limit, which can be useful if there's a lot of stuff going on, or more importantly to use it as a second plane when mode 7 is in use.
YES PLEASEQuote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The main idea behind the add-on was the scaling/rotation enhancement features, yet aside from Core Design it seems devs didn't give it any thought. I guess nobody was interested on the Sega CD in the first place, and then you have Digital Pictures jumping in and releasing a tad of FMV games giving everybody the impression that was the main advantage of the system and scared anybody who could have cared away. Fucking hell.
Funny thing is, when I look at the Sega CD, it's the sound system I find juiciest. You have something that can basically stream samples to the RAM, and have access to the rest of the Mega Drive's sound system.
Nevermind the possible craziness you could have with the onboard CPU either mixing or generating samples. Of course, maybe I'm just too focused on the music and not so much on the graphic. :D
I get that, but some Mega Drive fans are acting to no better than the Snes fans this thread took issue with . Both systems could do wonderful stuff and each one did something the other console would find hard to do - It was a great era of gaming and made owning both systems a think to do .Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
John O'Biren used the chip a lot too and so did Game Arts but those were the only real ones . Sonic CD makes great use of the chip for the DA Garden and clouds on the title screen only to make next to use of it in-Game - when all the bosses should have made use of the chip in some shape or another . Fair play to Core Son Of Chuck makes use of ASIC chip in Game for some extra effects over the Mega Drive version and it looks really impressive and shows what could have been done .Quote:
The main idea behind the add-on was the scaling/rotation enhancement features, yet aside from Core Design it seems devs didn't give it any thought. I guess nobody was interested on the Sega CD in the first place, and then you have Digital Pictures jumping in and releasing a tad of FMV games giving everybody the impression that was the main advantage of the system and scared anybody who could have cared away. Fucking hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You're so hypocrite and full of shit it hurts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You've stalled this and countless other threads for dozens of pages just 'cause you can't handle "reading" anything not appreciative about the sacred cows of The Church of TA's Wondermega.
Hadn't you and chilled harped so much about the SNES' superior hardware and software quality, then me, Kamahl, Sik, etc. maybe wouldn't even have posted in this thread.