Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

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Originally Posted by Barone

You're so hypocrite and full of shit it hurts.
You've stalled this and countless other threads for dozens of pages just 'cause you can't handle "reading" anything not appreciative about the sacred cows of The Church of TA's Wondermega.

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? I praise both systems can see both systems had their plus and minus points . Its you're the one that's been totally and utterly hypocritical on this matter and only because you're hell bent on making the Mega Drive look brilliant at all costs . Lets not compare Mortal Kombat or Smash TV becasue they're made by different teams (read the Snes versions are actually better but I can't bring myself to say it ) , but lets compare Streets of Rage to Final Fight even though one made In-House and the other by a 3rd party. It's embrasshing the levels you are getting at, to smash the Snes to bits and make the Mega Drive look utterly amazing .

You need to stop with the inults and just accept that some people have their own views on games and that the Mega Drive and Snes had their plus and minus points .

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Hadn't you and chilled harped so much about the SNES' superior hardware and software quality

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It some area's its superior and in others it not , why you get so worked up about it I do not know . Software quailty is subjective and I liked the Snes more for the platform games and that's it . I actually liked the Mega CD above the Snes or Mega Drive for its software .

Also Yeah the WonderMega is fab, looks stunning and easily the best looking 16 bit system and yeah... It actually does make each and every Mega Drive and Mega CD games sound better when using the Game DAP mode , but never mind

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7554/3...a6921743_o.jpg

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Because people see a larger sprite count and think it's better without realizing there's another limitation that negates this benefit.

This said, there is one thing the SNES sprite system has that is better no matter how you look at it: any 8px silvers that are off-screen don't factor into the bandwidth no matter the size of the sprite, while on the Mega Drive even off-screen sprites eat bandwidth. This gives the SNES some more wiggle room before hitting the scanline limit, which can be useful if there's a lot of stuff going on, or more importantly to use it as a second plane when mode 7 is in use.

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Isn't that just one more spec/attribute which is only a superiorority when taken out of context? When you add up all of the bottlenecks for SNES sprites, it seems to be at a major disadvantage and the best example seems to be the library of games which were actually released.

The PC Engine must not count sprites overlapping off-screen either, because so many games feature a horizontally scrolling strip of sprites which is as wide as the screen size, which is also the horizontal sprite pixel limit in 256 pixel-wide resolution.

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Originally Posted by Barone

Hadn't you and chilled harped so much about the SNES' superior hardware and software quality, then me, Kamahl, Sik, etc. maybe wouldn't even have posted in this thread.

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I'm amused that you need to post in every thread/forum where someone doesn't agree with you. I'm less amused when you insult people in a way Sik or Kamahl would never do. I guess you still have other things to learn from them.

I myself, as you may know, do actually prefer the MD and its library over the SNES, but that doesn't prevent me from saying that I think Nintendo had overall superior hardware & library, whatever the reasons were (2 years later, third parties, add-on chips, etc.), which actually hurts a little to reckon, and I guess that's the reason you get so mad and you come with your zillion stats to overcome the argument. That's revisionism, by the way (not the other way around). Not necesarily a bad one, though.

So how about you stop insulting people who disagrees on the MD superiority and you start explaining why you aren't a fan of both consoles as everyone here should probably be? I think we all agree it's a generation where the gap between consoles wasn't that far away both in terms of capabilities and results (ie the actual library). That doesn't seem to happen in any other generation.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You need to stop with the inults and just accept that some people have their own views on games and that the Mega Drive and Snes had their plus and minus points .

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I wasn't even replying to you anymore but you decided to write your shitty jab posts as a follow up to my posts. If you can't deal with it, don't bring the argument in the first place.

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Originally Posted by chilled

I'm amused that you need to post in every thread/forum where someone doesn't agree with you. I'm less amused when you insult people in a way Sik or Kamahl would never do. I guess you still have other things to learn from them.

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I can quote and reply to anyone I want, as many times as I want.
And it's not my fault you say a lot of things which can't hold any water. Opinion is one thing, invalid/wrong information is another thing.

You both cry babies are welcome to use the ignore list feature if you can't handle seeing your posts quoted by me and your misconceived info corrected.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Isn't that just one more spec/attribute which is only a superiorority when taken out of context? When you add up all of the bottlenecks for SNES sprites, it seems to be at a major disadvantage and the best example seems to be the library of games which were actually released.

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QFT.

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Originally Posted by Barone

I wasn't even replying to you anymore but you decided to write your shitty jab posts as a follow up to my posts. If you can't deal with it, don't bring the argument in the first place.



I can quote and reply to anyone I want, as many times as I want.
And it's not my fault you say a lot of things which can't hold any water. Opinion is one thing, invalid/wrong information is another thing.

You both cry babies are welcome to use the ignore list feature if you can't handle seeing your posts quoted by me and your misconceived info corrected.

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Hey, I love it when someone can defend Sega stuff, but you're starting to get annoying and you're not making this any better by doing the same stuff Andromeda and Chilled are doing. (More so Andromeda. Chilled can't back up anything he says.)

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Originally Posted by Barone

I wasn't even replying to you anymore but you decided to write your shitty jab posts as a follow up to my posts. If you can't deal with it, don't bring the argument in the first place.

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No you just quoted me twice in the same post, but never mind . By all means carry on insult people , not wanting others to express a different point of opinion and quoting people without realising it.

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Originally Posted by goldenband

I'd love to see a list of games on the SNES and Genesis that show less of the playfield in the SNES version because of stretched pixels. Itchy & Scratchy is one, and it really affects the gameplay. I suspect there must be more.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

Lion King is one where it really affects the gameplay. I can manage the double ostrich jump on the MD version. The SNES one is next to impossible for me, the extra input delay just makes it even worse.

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Originally Posted by Sik

Phantom 2040 does it too.

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Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel is another one.

Last night, i was playing akumajo dracula SFC ( super castlevania 4 ) on my crt sony trinitron.
What a wonderful game, last time i finished this game, it was perhaps on 2010.
This game always impressed in true condition.
This game has a crazy atmosphere.
Yes, several snes hits have crazy atmosphere, i'm thinking about akumajo dracula, super metroid and actraiser for example.
You can make specials effects, many sprites on screen, nervous gameplay in front of this snes games, it doesn't change anything.
Even on megadrive, among my favorite games, gameplay is important and also atmosphere is decisive.
For example, i like atmosphere of super shinobi ( revenge of shinobi ), it reminds me ninja B movies on 80's.
I prefer gunstar heroes compared to contra hard corps because artwork design is better on Gunstar Heroes.
And , gameplay is more confortable adjusted on Gunstar heroes.
Ok, it's good to make nervous games but don't forget playing comfort.
On gunstar heroes, it is nervous but thanks to the possibility of catching the enemy, it is confortable.
I am an arcade player, i have danmaku games as ketsui, do donpachi dai ou jou, esp galuda on PGM SYSTEM.
Yes, it is nervous but thanks to collision mask, we can dodge bullets.
I blame some megadrive games to make some games too nervous to the detriment of the balance game.

I said I was amused, not crying. Anyway as it seems I can't back up any of my arguments I'll stop stating that snes games were prettier, sounded better and were overall more polished, had better presentation and were more balanced since citing Legend of Zelda or Super Metroid doesn't seem to get me as far as citing DMA writes or whatever.

Just please don't make it look that there are only two fools on this forum/planet that think the SNES was a superior system. Oh well do whatever pleases you, I'll be ok with and TA should also, if I may. I much rather like you when you hack games than we you try to hack people.

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Originally Posted by chilled

I said I was amused, not crying. Anyway as it seems I can't back up any of my arguments I'll stop stating that snes games were prettier, sounded better and were overall more polished, had better presentation and were more balanced since citing Legend of Zelda or Super Metroid doesn't seem to get me as far as citing DMA writes or whatever.

Just please don't make it look that there are only two fools on this forum/planet that think the SNES was a superior system. Oh well do whatever pleases you, I'll be ok with and TA should also, if I may. I much rather like you when you hack games than we you try to hack people.

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All three of you need to leave.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

All three of you need to leave.

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Yes we do.
I'm just trying to reach to page 50 in order to avoid seeing the top of page 49 which doesn't look pretty at all.

Segonku 2's last sentence is interesting, coming from a hardcore shmup player (at least he looks like one). Maybe one of the problems of all these games being so arcadey is that they weren't adapted to a console world, gameplay expectations wise. Surely Nintendo not coming from the arcade didn't have this issue. Still, it seems a bit far fetched as there are many other reasons to as why the games were overall more difficult/unforgiving on the MD.

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Originally Posted by chilled

. Surely Nintendo not coming from the arcade didn't have this issue. Still, it seems a bit far fetched as there are many other reasons to as why the games were overall more difficult/unforgiving on the MD.

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Donkey Kong, Popeye, Punchout!!!, Vs. Baseball, Vs. Tennis and Donkey Kong Jr., just to name a few.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

All three of you need to leave.

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That was a pretty rude thing to say. And not that this place is so active we can tell others to shut up and ban. Just look on the bright side to how these guys sparked a some great chit chat.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

All three of you need to leave.

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Why don't you leave the thread since you're so unsatisfied?

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Originally Posted by Thief

That was a pretty rude thing to say. And not that this place is so active we can tell others to shut up and ban. Just look on the bright side to how these guys sparked a some great chit chat.

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I don't give a fuck. The name calling and petty insults on all three of them need to stop. I like a person that can defend Sega, but Barone is getting out of line along with chilled and Andromeda.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Donkey Kong, Popeye, Punchout!!!, Vs. Baseball, Vs. Tennis and Donkey Kong Jr., just to name a few.

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I love me some Donkey Kong Arcade (NES, 2600). Never did play Punch-Out (have Mike Tyson on NES)

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Donkey Kong, Popeye, Punchout!!!, Vs. Baseball, Vs. Tennis and Donkey Kong Jr., just to name a few.

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Yes sorry I meant at the time. Those are mostly older titles than outrun, golden axes etc but well you are probably right as I was just following the usual Sega's high profile on the arcade vs Nintedo being bigger on the console market since the Famicom

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

I don't give a fuck. The name calling and petty insults on all three of them need to stop. I like a person that can defend Sega, but Barone is getting out of line along with chilled and Andromeda.

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Then you should of just said that instead.

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

Last night, i was playing akumajo dracula SFC ( super castlevania 4 ) on my crt sony trinitron.
What a wonderful game, last time i finished this game, it was perhaps on 2010.
This game always impressed in true condition.
This game has a crazy atmosphere.
Yes, several snes hits have crazy atmosphere, i'm thinking about akumajo dracula, super metroid and actraiser for example.
You can make specials effects, many sprites on screen, nervous gameplay in front of this snes games, it doesn't change anything.
Even on megadrive, among my favorite games, gameplay is important and also atmosphere is decisive.
For example, i like atmosphere of super shinobi ( revenge of shinobi ), it reminds me ninja B movies on 80's.
I prefer gunstar heroes compared to contra hard corps because artwork design is better on Gunstar Heroes.
And , gameplay is more confortable adjusted on Gunstar heroes.
Ok, it's good to make nervous games but don't forget playing comfort.
On gunstar heroes, it is nervous but thanks to the possibility of catching the enemy, it is confortable.
I am an arcade player, i have danmaku games as ketsui, do donpachi dai ou jou, esp galuda on PGM SYSTEM.
Yes, it is nervous but thanks to collision mask, we can dodge bullets.
I blame some megadrive games to make some games too nervous to the detriment of the balance game.

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The MD ones which I really dislike are the super harsh, unpolished ones; such as X-Men and Chakan.
Chakan sucks to no end IMO. And I've find quite more MD games than SNES ones like that; I'm not sure if Nintendo would allow publishing shit like that.

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Originally Posted by Barone

The MD ones which I really dislike are the super harsh, unpolished ones; such as X-Men and Chakan.
Chakan sucks to no end IMO. And I've find quite more MD games than SNES ones like that; I'm not sure if Nintendo would allow publishing shit like that.

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Hey, X-Men MD is awesome and polished just enough. So I won't hear any of that. :p

Hahahaahah, oh, I'm always in the polarizing end I guess.
I've seen other people who share the same opinion of yours (StarMist, Kollision, etc.); but I find it (the game) simply unacceptable. It looks and feels really clumsy, runs choppy, sounds annoying and it's harsh on the player.

I love X-Men 2: Clone Wars though and a lot of people also hate it. :?

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Originally Posted by Thief

Then you should of just said that instead.

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It wouldn't have worked. Unless you got glasses on, there have already been four or five fights in this topic and it's usually involves one of those three or all. It's time to put the foot down on them before it gets much worse.

Got a chance to look at sengoku's post. Super Castlevania IV might be my favorite game on the SNES and the best of it's 91 lineup.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

It wouldn't have worked. Unless you got glasses on, there have already been four or five fights in this topic and it's usually involves one of those three or all. It's time to put the foot down on them before it gets much worse.

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Is that how psychology works?

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Originally Posted by Thief

Is that how psychology works?

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I don't know. I just want to see talk about games instead of the constant fighting. Like that sengoku fella who talked a little about Super Castlevania, which I've said earlier is probably my favorite title on the SNES and of its 91 lineup. I've always had a lot of fun with that. Did play Zombies Ate My Neighbors on it (Have the Genesis version), but that was quite a few years ago. But nothing beats playing Doom on the PlayStation for Halloween stuff. I gotta get to playing Medievil again. Anybody know any good Halloween stuff to play on 16-bit systems?

Finally decided to play ActRaiser. I must say that the music fits quite well with the overall premise and style of the game. Released in 1990, I can see why alot of people raved about this game back in the day! I'm having a blast! Hopefully I will be able to beat this game in the near future and attempt ActRaiser 2!

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

But nothing beats playing Doom on the PlayStation for Halloween stuff.

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Amen to that. I love PSX Doom, the sound is incredible and the coloured lighting adds a lot to the experience. I've just finished beating two of the three chapters of Final Doom on Ultra Violence, feels good man. Plutonia Experiment is pretty rough :) Final Doom has mouse compatibility as well if that's your thing, although I've become a bit of a gun with the pad after all this practice so not too worried about that myself.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

Anybody know any good Halloween stuff to play on 16-bit systems?

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The Splatter House series springs to mind, and so does Devil Crash if you like some pinball related tomfoolery. Perhaps MK as well but frankly I'd rather play the arcade versions. Nosferatu on SFC looks interesting.

About games for the Halloween:
http://www.sega-16.com/2005/10/holid...for-halloween/

I'd add Gauntlet IV, I think it has a dark atmosphere to it.
Ghostbusters is also a pretty good one IMO.

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Originally Posted by OverDrone

Nosferatu on SFC looks interesting.

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Don't waste your time .. I couldn't wait for that game after the hype of 3 years of development and tons of frames of animation and a Prince of Persia killer . Its pretty rubbish (though it sounds amazing) and not a patch on Castlevania IV - which to me is just about as good as it gets. Also I love POP on the Snes and a game that sounds way better on the Snes than most other versions and I'll include the Mega CD/MD versions in that




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZsA5hrwt-0

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

Anybody know any good Halloween stuff to play on 16-bit systems?

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Dracula Unleashed is fab one of the best point and click games ever made and the b movie sets and acting just add to a top laugh and great game, I like playing Bram Stoker's Dracula on the Mega CD due to music being really really creepy and liking the atmosphere for about 10 mins lol . I also like playing Star Flight on the Mega Drive (not only is the best space game ever made, it got some really weird music and creepy sound effects . I agree with you on the Doom soundtrack, but to me the Quake Music on CD is every more scary and weird

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

I am an arcade player, i have danmaku games as ketsui, do donpachi dai ou jou, esp galuda on PGM SYSTEM.
Yes, it is nervous but thanks to collision mask, we can dodge bullets.

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To me, Ketsui is pretty much the shooting game apocalypse. Actually, I think CAVE's last shooter DDP Saidaioujou is perhaps even more difficult, at least for me.

Funnily enough the CAVE ports on 360 were part of the reason I got back into Mega Drive after all this time - Even the toughest (fair) 16-bit console games are like a relaxing holiday compared to some of those. I'm really not dedicated enough for the more difficult bullet hell stuff.

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Originally Posted by sengoku 2

I blame some megadrive games to make some games too nervous to the detriment of the balance game.

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Which games are you thinking?

Hmm, the best i can answer you, is that i will speak about 2 megadrive games with arcade quality.
First Alien Soldier, yes it is arcade quality, overall design is successful, it is nervous.
Yes, overall control requires training , but my main complaint is about this boss rush system.
It doesn't amuse me, to me bosses have to be reward after a good stage of side-scroller with a good level-design.
And to me, it is all about atmosphere and variety. For example, on gunstar heroes, there is a rush boss mode but it is after several stages of side-scrolling and also is justified by the script : the dice game. Yes, dice game is a good idea, according to the parties, you never encounter the same opponent twice thanks to random dice.
Yes, unbalance Alien soldier to me because of game system that is not my cup of tea.

Seconde game, Batman and robin, why it is a difficult game ?
It could have been a masterpiece, but theses bosses and this plane stage are too long and too repetitive.
Even by cheating with invincibility, it is too long.
Batman and robin, huge technical performance, in each stage, megadrive is pushing at its limits, but unbalance difficulty ruin all the game.

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Originally Posted by Flygon

Actually, there's an explanation for this. There's always a one-frame buffer between yourself inputting a button, and the button actually being recognized.

This's really annoying when trying to perform SNES TAS's, because you basically gotta try and plan two frames in advance, and that's a lot more tedious than you'd think.

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So wait, one frame buffer = 2 frames input delay? So all 60fps SNES games have 2 seconds of input delay? ... What aboot Star Fox with 15 or so frames...

Also, is there no way emulator authors can create some workaround for this? Like write some code that tells the SNES framebuffer to stop being such a d-bag.


Otherwise yes, I've been looking for my next SNES shump, and messed around with the SNES Parodius games for a bit. Then decided on the PCE version to see how noticeable of a difference it is without the input delay. Man is it ever noticeable.

No, not 2 seconds of input delay, just... one frame... ish.

Point is, you have an additional frame of delay compared to the Mega Drive. It's almost never noticeable, unless you're working in a TAS environment, or have good reaction time.

And remember, the SNES is not using a framebuffer. Same basket as the Mega Drive. Blitters and backgrounds! :p
Edit: Though, with context of emulation?...

I'm sure it could be 'done', but I suspect it's not worth it.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

Anybody know any good Halloween stuff to play on 16-bit systems?

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How the hell has nobody mentioned Clock Tower? :o

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Originally Posted by Flygon

No, not 2 seconds of input delay, just... one frame... ish.

Point is, you have an additional frame of delay compared to the Mega Drive. It's almost never noticeable, unless you're working in a TAS environment, or have good reaction time.

And remember, the SNES is not using a framebuffer. Same basket as the Mega Drive. Blitters and backgrounds! :p
Edit: Though, with context of emulation?...

I'm sure it could be 'done', but I suspect it's not worth it.

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Oh, I meant 0.02 seconds. Sorry. But now you're saying it's 0.01 seconds (because 1 frame per 60 frames a second = 0.01 seconds).

And yes, it's very noticeable. Especially yesterday when I went from PCE Parodius to SNES Gokujou Parodius. Took me at least the entire first stage to adjust to new input delay that it made me wonder if SNES Gokujou Parodius has more input delay then even SNES Parodious? Because that's how bad it was. Going to double check this soon.

First time I noticed input delay as a kid, and I'm certain this is where everybody else noticed too, was going from Genesis MK1 to SNES MK1. That game had to have had at least 0.02 to 0.03 seconds of input delay. The craziest input delay SNES game I can think of to this day. So makes me wonder what other SNES games have higher then standard SNES input delay?...

EDIT - and what? Not worth it? It's totally worth it.

At 60Hz, 1 frame = 0.016667 seconds (approx)
At 50Hz, 1 frame = 0.02 seconds

So dunno, you really weren't that off with 0.02, especially in the case of PAL.

I originally thought SNES Parodius was a lager cart size then PCE Parodius. Turns out they're both 8megs. And not just with extra stages, but looks like more graphical detail. Then I remembered this recent post from the 32X MK2 thread;

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

... although the PC Engine can't do as heavy duty compression as Genesis/SNES.

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Can somebody give more detail about this across PCE, Genesis and SNES?

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Originally Posted by Thief

I originally thought SNES Parodius was a lager cart size then PCE Parodius. Turns out they're both 8megs. And not just with extra stages, but looks like more graphical detail. Then I remembered this recent post from the 32X MK2 thread;



Can somebody give more detail about this across PCE, Genesis and SNES?

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The PC Engine doesn't draw frames the same way as MD/SNES, so it doesn't need much work ram, but this leaves it without the ability to do compression as well as the others.

The SFC version of Parodius Da! is also missing some details that the PC Engine version has, but it also has much less animation. You can't judge the game by the first stage.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

The PC Engine doesn't draw frames the same way as MD/SNES, so it doesn't need much work ram, but this leaves it without the ability to do compression as well as the others.

The SFC version of Parodius Da! is also missing some details that the PC Engine version has, but it also has much less animation. You can't judge the game by the first stage.

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Ah, I should of guessed that.

And I just reached the last stage in PCE version then Game Over'ed. Back to SNES version.

Are you playing these games on emulators Thief?