Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

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Originally Posted by GeckoYamori

I've analyzed and reverse engineered the Vega track, and I think I figured out what the main problem is, which is the attack of the trumpet sample [...] is a slightly different pitch from the sustain/loop (looks like around 10 cents), which is pretty normal when it comes to instruments like brass or guitars. Thing is, it is being played in rapid staccato sequences, but the sample itself is not really a staccato articulation and was not meant to be used as such. So the attack becomes the dominant part of what you're hearing, and in turn the different pitch since the sample was tuned with the sustain part in mind, and so it sounds off relative to the other instruments being played.

Here's a .spc rip of the original with the tonal instruments isolated, followed by my own mockup using the same ripped and re-tuned samples, and then finally one where I edited out the attack from the sample leaving only the sustain.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66640537/sf2.mp3

And then, here's a short looped excerpt of the original followed by a mockup where I re-tune it with the attack in mind and leave out the sustain.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...37/sf2%202.mp3

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Good ears! I think most listeners can tolerate about 12-15 cents of discrepancy before something consciously starts to sound out of tune, especially in a staccato part like that and especially in the flat direction. So it's easy to understand why this escapes most folks' notice (including mine until now, and I do have absolute pitch FWIW), but you're clearly right that it's there.

You mentioned some samples in the SNES version being nearly a quarter-tone (i.e. 50 cents) out. Did you have any examples of that?

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Originally Posted by gamevet

It's not a trombone. The artist was going for a Spanish Bullfight sounding song, to fit the theme for Vega. Vega's costume is that of a bull fighter. The Spanish Bullfight Songs have a trumpet lead, with maybe a couple of trombones in accompaniment. A trombone will have a sliding tone when it changes notes.

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Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all. But This group cannot even stand up for a guy who has done more than enough work on the audio end of Sega Genesis related emulation and mods?!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cowtow for never researching like these geniuses.

http://gamepilgrimage.com/content/3d...1se-benchmarks

Hey, Sheath is back. Welcome back, Sheath. And stick around.

Sheath! I just mentioned your absence something like a few months ago! A warm welcome back.

As for this thread's topic, I could never take them seriously. I beat SMW to the farthest end I could. I accumulated something like 560 lives just replaying every single level and getting through all the hidden stages, all without a walkthrough.

SMW is not a fun game. Once I finished it to the secret ending, I had a "that's it?" moment. It was literally one level (and one musical motif!) repeated ad nauseam. I vowed never to play a boring game again, so I picked up a game with a fat blue hedgehog on the cover and Blades was never the same.

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Originally Posted by Folco

I know JRPG isn't a very popular genre in the west (or even in Japan nowadays)

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Eh, while traditional JRPGs are indeed not doing that well, RPG as a concept certainly is not in Japan. If you want to release a mobile game over there and hope to even remotely stand a chance, your game needs to be a RPG, period. And kind of a big deal since they're abandoning consoles in general because they barely have any time left to play games anymore (in many cases their only chance to play games is on the commute, because Japan these days is more workacoholic than ever, and spare time practically doesn't exist anymore for anybody with a job).

But yeah they aren't exactly the same thing as JRPGs, though most of the problems plaguing JRPGs are common to all kinds of RPGs in general.

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Originally Posted by Blades

As for this thread's topic, I could never take them seriously. I beat SMW to the farthest end I could. I accumulated something like 560 lives just replaying every single level and getting through all the hidden stages, all without a walkthrough.

SMW is not a fun game. Once I finished it to the secret ending, I had a "that's it?" moment. It was literally one level (and one musical motif!) repeated ad nauseam. I vowed never to play a boring game again, so I picked up a game with a fat blue hedgehog on the cover and Blades was never the same.

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Yeah, I beat SMW too back in the day when I got my SNES with then just released SFII (115$ with tax that game was in Canada brand new when it came out. I'll never forget that crazy price tag). Only I could never find like 4 of the exits. But yes, I too hit that point where SMW appeal just vanished completely after I finally gave up on finding the last 4 or so exists. Even just before I got the SNES and seen it at a friends house, I always wanted play F-Zero instead (the only other SNES game they had). Speaking of that friend, I was always surprised he wanted to play my SMB3 over his brand new SMBW. He said he likes SMB3 better. I didn't believe him back then. But now I do.

Might as well add this too. That one friend also played my Knight Rider game (that dad bought) once or twice, and I always remember him saying it's not as good as Rad Racer. And I knew of that name and cover as I seen it enough in game stores. But never played it until recently. And yes. He was right. Rad Racer is way rad. But have yet to play Knight Rider again to see how it holds up to how I see games today (though I didn't like it back then).

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Originally Posted by midnightrider

If the genre was to have suddenly burst in popularity because of that game, would it not stand to reason that it's own sequels should have sold just as well, if not better? Then other games in the genre should have begun to sell exceptionally well too. That's the problem with the argument, is when someone suggests it made the genre mainstream, when it was little more than an overhyped game, that made publishers take more of a chance on localizing the genre at the time. Then the 'net nerd fans of something like the "Tales of" series don't appreciate the bone they're given when they do get a localized game within, because the series obviously doesn't sell well enough here for continuous localizations.

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It's not always the case, sometime an early game in a series/genre maxed out the sales potential.
For example Super Mario Bros., Pokemon R/G/B, Kirby's Dreamland, Mega Man 2, Street Fighter 2 (SNES) or Dragon Quest III (which is close to be the best selling JRPG in Japan despite being released in 1988).
Usually when a genre burst in popularity you have one or two game series that sell extremely well which are usually those that popularize the genre in the first instance or the one who stole the thunder (example: Street Fighter 2), a few clones that set themselves apart and are met with favourable responses (example: Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct) which sell very very good and a bunch of more or less notable clones that sell decently but aren't true hit which are produced in great quantity while the genre is still hot because publishers hope in a potential big return (many tries fails though).

BTW FFVII sequels (namely FFVIII and FFX) sold very well and not too far off FFVII (about 8.6 million units worldwide).

What I agree with you is that the JRPG genre explosion in the west is often misunderstood.
What is regarded as a genre explosion in the west in reality was the explosion in popularity of a single publisher: Squaresoft.
During the PS1 generation, not every JRPGs game brought in US sold well.
In fact if you could look at NPD chart for PS1 you could see that only a fraction of JRPG released sold more than 200K and all of these have a specific reason why they got higher sales than the rest:
1- They were published by Squaresoft which was seen as the publisher of reference for the genre.
or
2- They are special cases, for example JRPGs pushed by the hardware manufacturer which of course had greater visibility than "normal" third party publishers.

However the genre was undeniably considered hot because publishers at the time brought an unusually high quantity of games in that genre to the american market.
They translated all those games (which isn't free) because they saw potential and while as I said above most of them sold at best decently it was enough to sustain the genre expansion in the west.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all. But This group cannot even stand up for a guy who has done more than enough work on the audio end of Sega Genesis related emulation and mods?!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cowtow for never researching like these geniuses.

http://gamepilgrimage.com/content/3d...1se-benchmarks

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Sure dude, and he tells me that a trumpet sounds like a Trombone. I sat in front of the trombone section for over 6 years.

I just added someone actually composing the sound track spot on using Mario Paint. It clearly shows the trumpet notes (2 trumpets in harmony) and that it is not a single instrument playing the staccato part, like he is trying to show there.



I never said that it sounded just like the real instrument. I said that it sound pretty close to the real thing. The higher pitched notes start to sound very synthetic and lacking of the warm sound of brass.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all. But This group cannot even stand up for a guy who has done more than enough work on the audio end of Sega Genesis related emulation and mods?!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cowtow for never researching like these geniuses.

http://gamepilgrimage.com/content/3d...1se-benchmarks

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Holy shit is right! Where the feck have you been? And how is fatherhood treating you? Are you still busy changing those nappies? :p

Barone, Trekkies, and Stu may give you shit! But the unsaid truth is they'll be happy that your back ... if only to continue the Dreamcast/PS2 debate! :p

Welcome back Sheath! :ok:

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Sure dude, and he tells me that a trumpet sounds like a Trombone. I sat in front of the trombone section for over 6 years.

I just added someone actually composing the sound track spot on using Mario Paint. It clearly shows the trumpet notes (2 trumpets in harmony) and that it is not a single instrument playing the staccato part, like he is trying to show there.



I never said that it sounded just like the real instrument. I said that it sound pretty close to the real thing. The higher pitched notes start to sound very synthetic and lacking of the warm sound of brass.

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Your Youtube examples sound like enhanced emulation. I have heard plenty of off tune SNES samples to know that GeckoYamori is on to something. MK2 is a great example.

Hi all, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have come back.

To get back to the original question: I think that the SNES is generally accepted by people who aren't super informed as the default "best" console of the 16-bit generation (whether or not this is actually true). Whenever you try to question what's accepted as the default way of thinking, you're going to run into a lot of resistance.

WHY the SNES is generally accepted as being the "best" is pretty well covered in this thread (seems to be a combination of factors, even if there's plenty of people who don't think it's the best).

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Originally Posted by sheath

Your Youtube examples sound like enhanced emulation. I have heard plenty of off tune SNES samples to know that GeckoYamori is on to something. MK2 is a great example.

Hi all, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have come back.

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Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.


I'd like to hear some of your examples.

It's a pick your poison with this track. The Genesis version has better bass and a much snappier snare drum sound, but the main instrument sounds like it's being pushed through a thin aluminum pipe; it has a horrible twang to it. The SNES version has a slightly subdued bass and the snare drum sort of cuts off short, but the main instrument sounds better.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Thank you!

I just don't get how someone can hear a beautiful music composition on the SNES and then trash it because it isn't as in your face loud as the vibrating sounds that the Genesis creates. A perfect example is Street Fighter 2, with its improved sound track and good sounding voice samples. I keep hearing these raving Genesis fans trying to say that the Genesis version is better, yet the Genesis version doesn't even sound (music timing is all over the place) as good as the arcade game. I have both versions of the game and it's just hard for me to get into playing it on the Genesis, because it just doesn't sound right.

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If you like the compositions of the SNES SFII soundtracks, so be it, but the sound of the instruments has issues... but it's only minor compared to how butchered the voices are. They're pretty much ruined, at least what little of them actually made it into the game. I get that people were blind to this kind of stuff bitd and all of the mags were telling us that SNES has perfect sound and that all that there is to samples is scratchiness (BAD!) or non-scratchiness (CD QUALITY!)... but how can the kind of hardcore 16-bit fans who post on forums like this not instantly hear how terrible the SNES voices are, let alone how often those memory saving techniques were used in SNES games in general?

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Originally Posted by QuickSciFi

So. To answer your question, there were many more Nintendo units (consoles/handhelds) sold than there were Sega units sold. This made for more Nintendo fans than Sega Fans. That made for more fanboys (not fans) on both sides; with the SNErdS taking the lead. The math is simple. SNErdS will feel the need to be hatin' ;). Take out the die-hard irrational fanboys from both sides, and you still get more Nintendo fans than Sega fans. You can't help it.

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I don't think it's a simply matter of units sold.
Sure Nintendo sold several times more consoles (and games) than Sega which more or less distributed about 75 million units of its consoles/handhelds but the biggest disadvantage Sega has is that the relevancy of its legacy is severely weaker than Nintendo at the moment.
Nintendo still keep alive its legacy constantly (it's probably the best videogame company that does it), they not only pump up new consoles and games but these are strictly tied to their old properties.
Each generation new people are potentially exposed to Nintendo past achievements and current iterations.
On the other side Sega leaving the console manufacturing business 15 years ago was a huge blow to Sega mindshare for the future years and put an end to Sega properties premium status (of being first party games).
If we add that often Sega mismanaged its own legacy by chasing quick profits and that it couldn't keep up with the big guns in the current industry it's obvious why Sega perception is far far weaker. than Nintendo.

This tie with another phenomenon , briefly cited by Barone, the general public tend to gravitate toward preconceived truths because they don't have the time and the will to check for their own an argument in depth.
If we look at the many top 10 charts of the best games for a specific consoles it's easy to spot patterns.
Not just because there are great games but because there is a consolidation of what is considered "great" or "must have" regardless if you have play in depth a game or not.
This consolidation favour in bias Nintendo because as I said above they have a far stronger perception than Sega.

Therefore even if Mega Drive and SNES sold more or less the same outside Japan, the SNES's legacy reputation is far stronger than Mega Drive even in the west.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Let me ask you this. Have you ever seriously played a musical instrument?

I ask this, because to play a musical instrument, you most definitely have to have your ears in tune with every note and the tempo that you are playing at.


I'm dead serious when I ask how someone would think that this (The main instrument sounds like it was generated by the 2600).....




Sounds even remotely better than this?



Fine tuned ears. :daze:

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You're right , but in terms of Arcade faithfulness the MD music is far closer to the Arcade tunes , it's the speech that lets the MD version down but that's a Hardware issue and a Hardware oversight by SEGA

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Originally Posted by midnightrider

Back to opinions again:
Pilotwings, F-Zero, Goemon, and Super Metroid don't have comparable titles. I don't see Toejam & Earl, Skitchin', Ecco, or Pirates! Gold(The Genesis also has both Unchartered Waters games, for the record, which still aren't quite the same) comparable titles on the SNES either. Bloodlines at least isn't piss easy enough for grandmother to beat, and actually has some variety to it, beyond taking the same character through the same path every time. To me, S3&K is the best platformer of the era. Tons of secrets that are only available to some of the 3 characters, who add each something unique to the core gameplay. Even with a save function, one could still beat it in an afternoon. Contra: Hard Corps. isn't ruined by levels that need the player to spin around with bosses that take forever to destroy, has a much faster adrenaline rushing pace in general, doesn't slow down at the first of the games many explosions, and has tons of variety, from 4 playable characters with 4 unique weapons each, and stage choices.

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See it's opintions and fine i can live with that, but there's nothing comparreable to Pioltwings or Super Metroid on the MD , There's nothing on the MD that's like SOS / Septentrion. Like I've always said all systems have their strenghts and weakness. Also I don't agree with you on Contra or Castvlevania . Hard Corps is a showcase for the the MD hardware and is handing so much more than the Snes game, but it doesn't play as good, the bosses battle aren't as good, it sounds nowhere near the Snes version and its far... far.. to hard for its own good . Bloodlines isn't a patch on the castlevania IV on almost every level for me : Level desgin, bosses, music and gfx . Sonic III and S&K is when the Sonic games started trying to be a bit too Mario like for me and I've always thought Quackshot was the best platform game on the MD along with Revenge and Ghost N Ghouls (which is so much better than the rubbish Snes version imo)

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.

I'd like to hear some of your examples.

It's a pick your poison with this track. The Genesis version has better bass and a much snappier snare drum sound, but the main instrument sounds like it's being pushed through a thin aluminum pipe; it has a horrible twang to it. The SNES version has a slightly subdued bass and the snare drum sort of cuts off short, but the main instrument sounds better.

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You've never heard of emulation being enhanced, audio and video? SNES emulators are notorious for it, but Tido just confirmed Genesis video was always off in emulators too.

MK2 Genesis:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...nds/MK2gen.MP3

MK2 SNES:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ds/MK2SNES.MP3

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.

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Would a snapshot of ZSNES sound settings do?
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/...20settings.png

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You're right , but in terms of Arcade faithfulness the MD music is far closer to the Arcade tunes , it's the speech that lets the MD version down but that's a Hardware issue and a Hardware oversight by SEGA

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I thought we proved it was Capcom's fault with those new Driver patches by Stephane for Genesis SS2 & SSF2?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iE5GJNkOqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN7fyEuIiHI

Thus a software issue, not hardware.

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Originally Posted by sheath

You've never heard of emulation being enhanced, audio and video? SNES emulators are notorious for it, but Tido just confirmed Genesis video was always off in emulators too.

MK2 Genesis:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...nds/MK2gen.MP3

MK2 SNES:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ds/MK2SNES.MP3

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I've used Kfusion for the Genesis. I've used BSNES and ZSNES for the SNES. The only things that I've messed with are the resolution and scan lines.

The track you posted for the Genesis still has that vibrating aluminum sound. It's a little irritating to me.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I've used Kfusion for the Genesis. I've used BSNES and ZSNES for the SNES. The only things that I've messed with are the resolution and scan lines.

The track you posted for the Genesis still has that vibrating aluminum sound. It's a little irritating to me.

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SNES emulators enhance the audio by default.

It's OK to like both, they have good games for both, stuff worth putting time into. I own both systems, I won't put one over the other, I just want to get as many good games for both as I possibly can.

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Originally Posted by sheath

SNES emulators enhance the audio by default.

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As do most emulators for all systems to be perfectly honest. But if we're talking about Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, here's real hardware recordings for the Genesis versions from Model 1's and Model 2's with the Mega Amp mod:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51cEDCcfLAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIQodsLpqk

Personally I think the main issue with Vega/Balrog's theme on the Genesis is that it sounds like they tried to make it sound more like the SNES version instead of the Arcade original. The beta version floating around sounds much better I think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaA-CHp5fPA

Vega's theme is at around the 30 minute mark.

Arcade for comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFxADC0o8Ds

Vega is around the 26-27 minute mark.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all. But This group cannot even stand up for a guy who has done more than enough work on the audio end of Sega Genesis related emulation and mods?!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cowtow for never researching like these geniuses.

http://gamepilgrimage.com/content/3d...1se-benchmarks

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Myself and others have cited numerous sources for you over the years. You just ignored them because they went against your preconceived bias. I specifically remember in the thread you blew up and quit over we threw source after source in your face and you refused to look at them and just kept saying we weren't providing them. In fact, I can go back and provide specific posts where we provided sources to you.

Nice benchmarks, though what you're trying to show with them isn't quite clear. The poor color choice makes things even worse as it's hard to tell which bar is which. Though if you're trying to prove the Dreamcast was as good as or more powerful than PC technology (as was your previous argument years ago if I remember correctly), your own graphs prove that one wrong as Quake 3 is running at a much higher frame rate at 640x480 on all of them.

And why do we need to come to Gecko's defense? He's an adult, he can take care of himself. I agree with him that Vega's theme sounds awful on the SNES and out of tune. But I also agree with Gamevet that the version released for the Genesis sounds equally terrible for different reasons. If unreleased versions count the Genesis beta beats both of them, if unreleased doesn't count then they both lose to the PC Engine on that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0WuG5LDrE

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Originally Posted by sheath

Barone pretending he is a responsible poster

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Certainly more responsible than you and your fake account (which is perma banned, btw):
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/member....2956-LastBronx
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...374#post695374

I hope you don't teach things like that to the kids of your church.

Instead of man up, you cowardly lurked for fucking two years and came back with the same stupid mindset. :shame:

Barone have you ever thought that guy (LastBronx) might of been someone else who didn't like you, and maybe, just maybe wasn't an alt of Sheath's like you claim?

I see nothing else to connect the two.

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Originally Posted by The Jackal

Barone have you ever thought that guy (LastBronx) might of been someone else who didn't like you, and maybe, just maybe wasn't an alt of Sheath's like you claim?

I see nothing else to connect the two.

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The only connections I see are that he joined right around when Sheath rage quit the forums, and early on had a bone to pick with Barone and I for little to no reason. But I agree it is a bit of a stretch to say they're the same person.

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Originally Posted by The Jackal

I see nothing else to connect the two.

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There are several related posts, you just have to look at things. But I think you weren't following the previous discussions at the time, so it may not make sense to you; but other people also noticed it back then.

I'm sure it's sheath and I'm sure he'll refuse to acknowledge it, using every trick in the book if necessary to try to refute it and paint himself as a victim (as he always does).
And I also know where the homossexual references of those insults came from.

It has sheath written all over it for those who were partaking in the same discussions where he meltdown and for those who know him a bit better.
But I'm not here to prove anything in such regard, I'm just telling him so he officially gets to know that I'm aware of the cards he was playing at the time.

He has gotten away too many times with his lies, this time he'll have a really hard time with his bs.
I'll bring it to him.

I'm an unapologetic Sega fanboy and have been since I fell in love with the company, it's games and identity during my childhood. In an age of online overrated 'journalistic' revisionist crap being constantly spewed about the 'vastly superior SNES' and the amount of ill-informed Nintendrones that seem to know next to nothing about Sega's legacy, hardware and games library, yet still harp on about how inferior the Mega Drive/Genesis is/was, I feel absolutely no need whatsoever to apologise for my love, loyalty and fanboyishness when discussing Sega. In any event here in the UK, and throughout Europe, Sega's Mega Drive was king and, for a few years, even knocked Nintendo off it's perch across the pond. Not bad going for a company working with a 'vastly inferior machine with crappy ports of arcade games and shit sound' eh? I'm still hoping for a decent movie/documentary adaptation of the fantastic book Console Wars, to slap in the face of completely and utterly biased Nintendorks like TAVGN, James and his ilk.

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Originally Posted by sheath

SNES emulators enhance the audio by default.

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I opened up ZSNES on my real gaming PC and then on my other PC in my office. It does not sound good on that emulator, no matter what you adjust.


Here's my real SNES playing Vega's theme without any enhancements, or pre-amp gains added to the output.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsxkLOlwkSU

Nice. Though that version is still my least favorite of the 16-bit ports. It just sounds so off and odd when compared to the other versions. The Genesis versions sound right pitch and tempo wise, but the official version is ruined by odd instrument choices.

In case it got missed on the last page, real hardware recordings of the other 16-bit ports:

Genesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51cEDCcfLAo

Genesis Beta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaA-CHp5fPA

PC-Engine Playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF1C...epe84ckEBDIKw-

In case that playlist isn't real hardware, this is a real hardware playthrough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JyiHOmS_Ug

Official Arcade Soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFxADC0o8Ds

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Originally Posted by Folco

However the genre was undeniably considered hot because publishers at the time brought an unusually high quantity of games in that genre to the american market.
They translated all those games (which isn't free) because they saw potential and while as I said above most of them sold at best decently it was enough to sustain the genre expansion in the west.

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How much of that can be said for the general expansion of gamers though? That one console alone sold as much as all 3 16-bit consoles combined(taking into account what was licensed, but distributed by other companies). So it should stand to reason that if the percentage of RPG gamers stays the same, it now becomes a much larger number, especially on that one console, in which a much more vast majority now all share. Whereas genre fans would have been split by the likes of Final Fantasy on one console, and Phantasy Star on the other, in the previous generation(as well as whatever the Japanese liked on the PC Engine).

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

See it's opintions and fine i can live with that, but there's nothing comparreable to Pioltwings or Super Metroid on the MD , There's nothing on the MD that's like SOS / Septentrion. Like I've always said all systems have their strenghts and weakness. Also I don't agree with you on Contra or Castvlevania . Hard Corps is a showcase for the the MD hardware and is handing so much more than the Snes game, but it doesn't play as good, the bosses battle aren't as good, it sounds nowhere near the Snes version and its far... far.. to hard for its own good . Bloodlines isn't a patch on the castlevania IV on almost every level for me : Level desgin, bosses, music and gfx . Sonic III and S&K is when the Sonic games started trying to be a bit too Mario like for me and I've always thought Quackshot was the best platform game on the MD along with Revenge and Ghost N Ghouls (which is so much better than the rubbish Snes version imo)

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This would be the point of agreeing to disagree.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Nice. Though that version is still my least favorite of the 16-bit ports. It just sounds so off and odd when compared to the other versions. The Genesis versions sound right pitch and tempo wise, but the official version is ruined by odd instrument choices.

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I'm really not a fan of the real arcade soundtrack. There are a few levels like those for Dhalsim, Blanka and and Sagat where I think the sound is just horrible. The warble sound of the flute in Blanka's stage is ear grating to me. When I played the arcade games a few times back in the day, the arcade that it was at had the sound turned down quite a bit, so it wasn't so noticeable. The 1st time I got Street Fighter Collection for the PlayStation, I was pretty much floored by how bad it sounded compared to the SNES game.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I'm really not a fan of the real arcade soundtrack. There are a few levels like those for Dhalsim, Blanka and and Sagat where I think the sound is just horrible. The warble sound of the flute in Blanka's stage is ear grating to me. When I played the arcade games a few times back in the day, the arcade that it was at had the sound turned down quite a bit, so it wasn't so noticeable. The 1st time I got Street Fighter Collection for the PlayStation, I was pretty much floored by how bad it sounded compared to the SNES game.

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I prefer the arcade CPS-1 renditions for most of the tracks. They're just a bit more punchy and energetic. The CPS-2 renditions are nice for some as well, but I prefer the CPS-1 for Vega/Balrog, Balrog/M.Bison, Ken, Ryu, Cammy, Guile, etc. Zangief I like on both. Though for some stages like E. Honda, Blanka, Dhalsim, etc. I just find boring and poor tracks in general regardless of what version.

I've never really liked the SNES tracks though. They just seem to use really odd instrument choices that come off as awkward sounding. They just sound like funky MIDI I'd find on some 90's fan site to me. They lack the Energy the other versions all have. Compare Vega on the SNES to the CPS-1 rendition for example. There's just a lot more energy in the Arcade track. Then agian, I have a soft spot for FM Synthesis.

You want RPGs you go for the SNES, you want fast paced arcady action you go for the MD, you want shmups you go PCE.
I guess typical SNES dorks just can't handle proper fast paced action, that's why they like contra 3 and gradius 3. The slowdown makes them happy. Being able to handle a game without slowing down to a crawl is a misfeature to them.

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Originally Posted by Barone

Instead of man up, you cowardly lurked for fucking two years and came back with the same stupid mindset. :shame:

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Lol wot.

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He has gotten away too many times with his lies, this time he'll have a really hard time with his bs.
I'll bring it to him.

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Barnoe, since you seem to have found your evildragon, I will quote what you told me back then.

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You both should cut the crap IMO.
Whatever you may want to prove or disprove here, Barone, it's not getting to a good place. By any means. You both will end up getting banned or something; and for what??? What's the point of your discussion?

About what Barone is claiming, IDK the US laws, but here in Brazil that's not "lying" by any means. It's not a good way to handle things, bad manners IMO, but far from being a crime or something that could put sheath in the jail and not even enough to get banned from this forum.

But the discussion you're having here is so retard and you're sooo overly nonsense that you'll probably getting somewhere with that. And the outcome will not be good to both of you.

I'd say, cut the crap, stop the nonsense and quit the pathetic threats. You both. You're getting nowhere with that bs other than to a meeting with the ban hammer.


Putting that aside, I have nothing against you both. I don't care about the puerile hoax which sheath pulled off several years ago and I also don't care aobut the rest of this bullcrap. I've seen you making worthwhile posts in this forum and you really shouldn't get this low IMO.

Barone, you seem to have an emotional attachment to this forum which is stronger than people usually consider as "normal". It doesn't bother me at all, but some guys seem to like to exploit that to no end, especially 'cause you show a borderline behavior when they do it.
I'd say that it's up to you, Barone, to break this cycle. As much as you keep giving so much attention to the very same guys who always like to paint you as a bad person, they'll keep getting from you exactly what they want: facts about old video games which may lead you to be banned again.

My 2 cents.

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Practice what you preach, my man.

The difference is that evildragon was a bizarre socially retarded idiot and sheath just disagrees with you about video games.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I prefer the arcade CPS-1 renditions for most of the tracks. They're just a bit more punchy and energetic. The CPS-2 renditions are nice for some as well, but I prefer the CPS-1 for Vega/Balrog, Balrog/M.Bison, Ken, Ryu, Cammy, Guile, etc. Zangief I like on both. Though for some stages like E. Honda, Blanka, Dhalsim, etc. I just find boring and poor tracks in general regardless of what version.

I've never really liked the SNES tracks though. They just seem to use really odd instrument choices that come off as awkward sounding. They just sound like funky MIDI I'd find on some 90's fan site to me. They lack the Energy the other versions all have. Compare Vega on the SNES to the CPS-1 rendition for example. There's just a lot more energy in the Arcade track. Then agian, I have a soft spot for FM Synthesis.

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I guess you're not a fan of Street Fighter Alpha 2 then.

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Originally Posted by Blades

Practice what you preach, my man.

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Well, it works both ways, right?! 'Cause I don't think you have changed your stance towards evildragon. You probably had your reasons and I didn't see like that at the time.
I also hadn't exchanged pretty much anything with you at the time, I didn't "know" you at all (and that's another reason why I probably shouldn't have said anything).

Looking back now, after having experienced a somewhat similar situation with sheath, I think I was wrong or, at the very least, I shouldn't have said anything.
I hope you can forgive me for that one day, since, after that, I've had some good exchanges with you and I regret my stance in that situation. And I'm sorry for that.

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Originally Posted by Blades

The difference is that evildragon was a bizarre socially retarded idiot and sheath just disagrees with you about video games.

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Both guys seem to have some serious social issues IMO.
However, it was sheath that called out me, Trekkies and stu after two years. I think I still offered him a fair shake during his previous personal attacks (which, IMO, went well beyond what you took from evildragon, at least publicly and I also don't think you had a background of over fifty thousand messages exchanged with him through facebook ;) ) but at this point I've really had enough.

At the end of the day, it's up to him if he wants go on with this crap. As long as he quits the false accusations, the fake accounts, etc. he'll be fine with me and probably with the others he keeps calling out for no good reason.

Just caught that Contra Hard Corps is "way, way too hard" remark by Team Andromeda thanks midnightrider quoting it. Because from a speedrunners perspective, the game is apparently not hard/intense at all compared to SNES Contra. At least according to Mike Uyama (personally, I haven't beat any of these games, so I have no opinion on this. Plus keep in mind speedrunning is very different from a casual or 1cc playthrough too. ie. Super Castlevania is considered easy, but is hard to speedrun);
https://youtu.be/OEm_dnl7lXs?t=54
^ He first mentions this at 54 seconds in, and continues to make fun of the game's difficulty throughout. Seems like once you know the patterns, that's that.

Compare to his earlier that day Contra 3 speedrun that coined the term "serious time" for Games Done Quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDHkesclXK0

Here's a quote from that interview about "serious time."

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Where did "Serious Time" come from?

The reason that came about was during the first marathon I was playing during the contra block. Frezy_man had done a really good job with Contra and Super C. I was kind of nervous and a bit afraid because Frezy_man did really good with his games and I did not want to screw up. I wanted to put my full concentration for the game and I was really super focused, and really super determined to do it. There was a lot of stress going into CGDQ, and at one point I thought it was completely going to fail. Because of all that stress that was built up, I had the most unbelievably stressed out, serious, angry face and I said "everyone shut up because this is serious time and you should not speak out." And I remember someone spoke out and I told them to shut up. It has caught on and I am fine with it, runners need their respect sometimes. As long as it is not over done I am fine with it, you can't be the little boy who cried serious time.

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http://speeddemosarchive.com/feature...interview.html

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Originally Posted by Thief

Just caught that Contra Hard Corps is "way, way too hard" remark by Team Andromeda thanks midnightrider quoting it. Because from a speedrunners perspective, the game is apparently not hard/intense at all compared to SNES Contra.

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Once I had a neighbor who would play Hard Corps "by heart" as well.

I'd like to know more about the enemy placement and AI pattern differences that may exist between these two games. Is Contra III's AI somehow less predictable or something?

Here are my thoughts on the games I have, beginning with third party.

Addams Family Values: Looks decent, but got lost early and had no clue what to do, so I gave up
Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle: Meh game that is very difficult for the wrong reasons. Got pretty far, though.
Animaniacs: Not too great of a game. Genesis version is much better.
Batman Forever: Mortal Kombat type of game but a side-scroller. Pretty awful.
Batman Returns: Pretty fun, but no two player. Clean and bright look (excellent, though) compared to the film.
Battletoads/Double Dragon: Seems decent enough compared to most beat-em-ups.
Beavis and Butt-head: Forgettable side-scroller. Get the Genesis version.
Chuck Rock: Decent platformer with good music. Almost Flintstones like.
Contra III: Haven't played enough, but seems very difficult.
David Crane's Amazing Tennis: Not amazing.
The Death and Return of Superman. Decent from what I've played. Seems competent.
Doom: Very faithful port despite some cut levels. Enjoyable.
Earthworm Jim: Very fun action game but very difficult.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest: Haven't played enough to form an opinion
Final Fight: Decent game, but lack of two player hurts it.
Final Fight 2: Feels improved in every facet. A better game.
Frank Thomas Big Hurt Baseball: Okay game.
Frogger: Decent, but could be a generic Windows 95 game
Home Alone 2: Not as bad as people make it out to be. Not bad, but not great either.
Izzy's Quest for the Olympic Rings: Far from mediocre, but questionable hit detection when attacking enemies.
John Madden Football: I like sports games, but this is choppy.
The Jungle Book: Forgettable game. Genesis version is better.
Lemmings: Fun in short bursts.
The Lion King: Controls not as crisp but very good.
Madden 93: Plays better, but still a little work needed.
Madden 95, 97: Play a lot smoother and better. Good attempts at football.
Mega Man Soccer: Have not played enough to form an opinion.
Mega Man X: Good, but challenging game with cool powers and weapons
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: Fun action game. Want to get the Fighting Edition game.
Mortal Kombat: Decent and playable, but no blood.
Mortal Kombat II: Delivers on every front.
Mortal Kombat 3: Okay game. Not as polished as the first two
NBA Jam: Best of the series.
NBA Live 96: Plays just as well as the Genesis version.

Next set of games in the next post I'll make.

Third party games, Part II

NHL 94: Not as smooth, but very playable
NHL 96, 98: Fun attempts at hockey.
NHLPA Hockey 93: Choppy game, but playable. No blood, but not a deal breaker.
Populous: Can't say much on it.
Porky Pig's Haunted Holiday: Pretty decent considering most Looney Tunes games.
Prince of Persia: Altered game, but still good.
Radical Psycho Machine Racing: Okay game that is tough to control.
Rocko's Modern Life: Seems decent enough.
R-Type III Competent shooter.
The Simpsons: Bart's Nightmare: Enjoyable set of mini-games.
Sonic Blastman II: Fun beat-em-up similar to Final Fight and Streets of Rage 2.
Speedy Gonzales in Los Gatos Banditos: Decent Sonic the Hedgehog clone.
Spider-Man X-Men: Arcade's Revenge: Fun in certain sections, but way too difficult.
Street Fighter II: Good fighting game.
Super Buster Bros.: Great arcade fun.
Super Castlevania: Great action and danger at every corner.
Super High Impact: Okay game. Never been a fan of Midway's football games.
Taz-Mania: Repetitive, but stupid fun. Not much you can do with Taz.
Tecmo Super Baseball: Not bad, but fielding perspective is not great.
Tecmo Super Bowl III: Expanded game that doesn't lose its arcade roots.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV; Fun, but very overrated port.
Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose: Great platformer
Tiny Toon Adventures: Wacky Sports Challenge: Good, but punishing game
WWF Super Wrestlemania: Okay game. I hear the sequels are better.
Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel: Decent game with some nifty moves