Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

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Originally Posted by Blades

The difference is that evildragon was a bizarre socially retarded idiot and sheath just disagrees with you about video games.

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I think it's safe to say that sheath has the issues here. It's obvious he's been dwelling on his personal issues with myself and Barone for the past 2 years he's been absent from the forum. Otherwise I doubt he would have made one of his first posts after returning an unprovoked shit flinging fest.

Sheath doesn't just disagree with Barone and myself. He disagree's in the face of facts and will go out of his way to conjure up and grasp at any straws he can find to try and back up his warped view of reality to try and prove actual facts wrong.

We all debate here and will argue over petty things. I've even made an ass of myself quite a few times. The difference however is that when faced with overwhelming factual evidence I will admit I was wrong and move on. The same is true for Barone, stu, and just about any other rational person on this forum. sheath instead chooses to see the facts that don't align with his preconceived bias as personal slights against him and decides to wage a personal war against them.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I guess you're not a fan of Street Fighter Alpha 2 then.

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I'm fine with Street Fighter Alpha 2 because the instrument choice is well done, just like the CPS-2 renditions of Street Fighter 2's music. Though I personally prefer the Saturn renditions of Alpha 2's music. The SNES version of Street Fighter 2 Turbo just uses really bad sample choices in my opinion. Same is true for Alpha 2 on the SNES.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

I'm fine with Street Fighter Alpha 2 because the instrument choice is well done, just like the CPS-2 renditions of Street Fighter 2's music. Though I personally prefer the Saturn renditions of Alpha 2's music. The SNES version of Street Fighter 2 Turbo just uses really bad sample choices in my opinion. Same is true for Alpha 2 on the SNES.

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Yeah, Alpha 2 and Super Street Fighter sound like ass on the SNES, because of the limitations of the cartridge. The Saturn version is absolutely great.

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Originally Posted by The Jackal

Barone have you ever thought that guy (LastBronx) might of been someone else who didn't like you, and maybe, just maybe wasn't an alt of Sheath's like you claim?

I see nothing else to connect the two.

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The sad truth is Barone and I were friends and all of this is the worst kind of bullshit.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I guess you're not a fan of Street Fighter Alpha 2 then.

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Alpha 2 and Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition are pretty much the only two I care about. Do you not hear the off key instruments in SNES games though? It has been long enough that I was wondering if I just thought the "right" key was just one version.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Would a snapshot of ZSNES sound settings do?
I thought we proved it was Capcom's fault with those new Driver patches by Stephane for Genesis SS2 & SSF2?

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No its a Hardware issue as the Mega Drive only as one sample channel for playback . It's not just Street Fighter II that suffers any game that uses multi Samples at the same time suffers from it. But in most cases the speech for one character or sound effect is cut out - SF II doesn't do that and so suffers.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

Here are my thoughts on the games I have, beginning with third party.

Addams Family Values: Looks decent, but got lost early and had no clue what to do, so I gave up
Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle: Meh game that is very difficult for the wrong reasons. Got pretty far, though.
Animaniacs: Not too great of a game. Genesis version is much better.
Batman Forever: Mortal Kombat type of game but a side-scroller. Pretty awful.
Batman Returns: Pretty fun, but no two player. Clean and bright look (excellent, though) compared to the film.
Battletoads/Double Dragon: Seems decent enough compared to most beat-em-ups.
Beavis and Butt-head: Forgettable side-scroller. Get the Genesis version.
Chuck Rock: Decent platformer with good music. Almost Flintstones like.
Contra III: Haven't played enough, but seems very difficult.
David Crane's Amazing Tennis: Not amazing.
The Death and Return of Superman. Decent from what I've played. Seems competent.
Doom: Very faithful port despite some cut levels. Enjoyable.
Earthworm Jim: Very fun action game but very difficult.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest: Haven't played enough to form an opinion
Final Fight: Decent game, but lack of two player hurts it.
Final Fight 2: Feels improved in every facet. A better game.
Frank Thomas Big Hurt Baseball: Okay game.
Frogger: Decent, but could be a generic Windows 95 game
Home Alone 2: Not as bad as people make it out to be. Not bad, but not great either.
Izzy's Quest for the Olympic Rings: Far from mediocre, but questionable hit detection when attacking enemies.
John Madden Football: I like sports games, but this is choppy.
The Jungle Book: Forgettable game. Genesis version is better.
Lemmings: Fun in short bursts.
The Lion King: Controls not as crisp but very good.
Madden 93: Plays better, but still a little work needed.
Madden 95, 97: Play a lot smoother and better. Good attempts at football.
Mega Man Soccer: Have not played enough to form an opinion.
Mega Man X: Good, but challenging game with cool powers and weapons
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: Fun action game. Want to get the Fighting Edition game.
Mortal Kombat: Decent and playable, but no blood.
Mortal Kombat II: Delivers on every front.
Mortal Kombat 3: Okay game. Not as polished as the first two
NBA Jam: Best of the series.
NBA Live 96: Plays just as well as the Genesis version.

Next set of games in the next post I'll make.

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Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010

Third party games, Part II

NHL 94: Not as smooth, but very playable
NHL 96, 98: Fun attempts at hockey.
NHLPA Hockey 93: Choppy game, but playable. No blood, but not a deal breaker.
Populous: Can't say much on it.
Porky Pig's Haunted Holiday: Pretty decent considering most Looney Tunes games.
Prince of Persia: Altered game, but still good.
Radical Psycho Machine Racing: Okay game that is tough to control.
Rocko's Modern Life: Seems decent enough.
R-Type III Competent shooter.
The Simpsons: Bart's Nightmare: Enjoyable set of mini-games.
Sonic Blastman II: Fun beat-em-up similar to Final Fight and Streets of Rage 2.
Speedy Gonzales in Los Gatos Banditos: Decent Sonic the Hedgehog clone.
Spider-Man X-Men: Arcade's Revenge: Fun in certain sections, but way too difficult.
Street Fighter II: Good fighting game.
Super Buster Bros.: Great arcade fun.
Super Castlevania: Great action and danger at every corner.
Super High Impact: Okay game. Never been a fan of Midway's football games.
Taz-Mania: Repetitive, but stupid fun. Not much you can do with Taz.
Tecmo Super Baseball: Not bad, but fielding perspective is not great.
Tecmo Super Bowl III: Expanded game that doesn't lose its arcade roots.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV; Fun, but very overrated port.
Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose: Great platformer
Tiny Toon Adventures: Wacky Sports Challenge: Good, but punishing game
WWF Super Wrestlemania: Okay game. I hear the sequels are better.
Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel: Decent game with some nifty moves

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Man, you owned a ton of shitty or seemingly, shitty, shitty & mediocre games. Should of read some gaming magazines & made some rental to make at least some informed buying decisions, lol. (no offense either). As I only owned like one shitty or mediocre game and that's because my mom bought it for me (it was Sports Talk Football 92 or something).

- Earthworm Jim a difficult game? Maybe I just played it too much or something, but I don't recall it ever as that difficult?

- Final Fight 2 better then 1? Wrong. Despite being single player and a weaker port, FF1 definitely is still the best FF on SNES. FF2 is also way too easy (but FF3 is easier still). So if you like easy play and forget games, sure. Otherwise I would of felt ripped off if I owned FF2 instead of 1 back in the day. FF2 is just a weak remake of FF1 with 2 players and everything else being, well, weaker (down to the setting/enemy re-skins that lost that really cool 80s atmosphere vibe). Also, those jumping/tossing knife guys from FF1 have been greatly weakened; aka; we're the biggest pain in FF1, now a joke in FF2 with a missing move set or something? Think he got split between two enemies + the knife throw is missing? But basically the careful enemy design chemistry is gone.

- Jungle Book I rented both version back in the day. First the SNES version and only version I was able to beat back then (which is strange because in a recent replay of these games, I have zero idea why I was stuck at King Loui in Genesis version). Not sure how much that contributed for me preferring SNES version back then. But my new opinion is that I prefer the Genesis version, despite being easier too. I also prefer Genesis graphics and music... did you ever beat the SNES version? Doesn't seem that forgettable to me... maybe I need to play it more to know for certain...

- Lion King I didn't enjoy the movie much (Aladdin was last Disney movie I really enjoyed). So my opinion on the game wasn't that high & worth owning from the get go. But I did rent and beat both versions of the Lion King. And not sure how much enjoying original Jungle Book movie affects this, but if I couldn't only own one, it would be Genesis Jungle Book. Either way, Genesis version is the one Lion King version to own. Gameplay reason included. Heck. All Disney/Virgin/Westwood games are superior on Genesis anyway. Anybody says otherwise in an objective manner is automatically labeled blind SNES fanboy by me.

- The hardest thing in MMX is that last boss battle. Way harder the the rest of the game hard... yeah, that's right. I never beat it. Just a ton of failed attempts. I'm not worthy, yada, yada. :p

- MK1 for Genesis is very nostalgic & preferred version for me (seeing it at a friends house for first is what got me into the MK craze in the first place). MK2 for SNES (my only pre-ordered game) was my preferred version over Genesis. But for MK3 they really messed up the SNES version. Genesis by a wide margin over SNES and obviously my to go version for MK3 fix. Therefore SNES fanboys saying SNES MK3 is again better over Genesis really pisses me off more so then any other game this being said for. I really was disappointed with assuming and trusting he SNES version to be better again by buying the SNES version of MK3. Especially when I rented Genesis version and it was superior to my surprise (this was like one of the final straws that turned me into a Genesis fanboy over SNES). Lucky, I right away bought the Genesis version soon right after. So scratch that. I owned two shitty games back in the 90s (so Sports Talk Football & SNES MK3). But at least I had a lot of fun comparing the heck out of these two versions (I owned and compared the heck out of all SNES/Genesis MK games).

- owned SNES NBA Jam first. Had a password list that went over a 100 games (still have the passwords somewhere stored with the game). So I basically played this game enough that I don't care about it or this series anymore. As I result I think this game is overrated. I only might fire a game from this series like for one game curiosity or nostalgia and that's it.

- I'd say R-Type 3 is more then a competent shooter. Definitely one of the best in it's genre for SNES.

- Played Sonic Blastman 2 recently and made much more progress this time. And my stance switched from pretty decent beat'em up to mediocre or shit beat'em up. :D

- Bought Super Castlevania IV late, as it was during the 32-Bit era thanks to EGM buyers guide ranking it so high in their top 10 list. Only played and beat it once back in those day... I'm a much bigger Castlevania fan now. My only regret not having bought it when it was new. As the graphics impressing the heck out of everyone at first had no impact on me during laet SNES/32-Bit era. That, and I now I have a thing for first gen or two games.

I say lets drop this Sheath debate for now and move on. ... Anyway, moving on...

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

No its a Hardware issue as the Mega Drive only as one sample channel for playback . It's not just Street Fighter II that suffers any game that uses multi Samples at the same time suffers from it. But in most cases the speech for one character or sound effect is cut out - SF II doesn't do that and so suffers.

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Isn't the more sample focused SNES sound chip setup more of a negative since it's way too costly on cart space? A couple of SNES ports having lots of cuts compared to Genesis versions do come to mind (though I would like a more thorough comparison on cart space efficiency between both systems that include other areas)... but think about other SNES exclusive games that could of had extra content too.


Also what this guy said here about SNES/Genesis music;

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

Is there a list anywhere of the top selling SNES games in NA/Europe that's accurate?

I had a SNES growing up and played the Genesis occasionally at friends' houses. I used to love everything about it. Games like Mario Allstars, DKC, Gradius 3, Starfox, Yoshi, Power Rangers, F-Zero, Ninja Warriors used to be my favorites but since really delving into the Genesis and to a lesser extent the NES/FC, it just doesn't hold up. The games that I used to love just don't hold my attention, the music that used to sound so good to me now sounds hollow and bland, and I know that there are equivalents on the MD/FC that are more fun to me. Once I went MD/MCD I never went back.

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I'm also finding rings more and more true to me too. As I really only listen to videogame music anymore, and am just discovering what zetastike said here for myself too. Seems like the only SNES playlist I can put up with outside of gaming is select tracks from Donkey Kong Country 1 and 2. Everything else sound too hollow and bland or gets boring too fast outside of a gaming environment.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Isn't the more sample focused SNES sound chip setup more of a negative since it's way too costly on cart space? A couple of SNES ports having lots of cuts compared to SNES version do come to mind (though I would like a more thorough comparison on cart space efficiency between both systems that include other areas)... but think about other SNES exclusive games that could of had extra content too.

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My only issue with the Snes sound chip is a lot of games tended to sound very similar when it came to sound effects . The Mega Drive had a hardware issues with one Sample channel and so that mean that even in a game like Greatest Heavyweights which was a Huge game with great sound, it was impossible for both players to taunt each other at the same time due to the Mega Drive single sample Hardware channel .

Also when it came to music I think the Snes was better due to it being better able to emu real instruments that bit better . Both sound chips have their plus and minus points

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Also when it came to music I think the Snes was better due to it being better able to emu real instruments that bit better . Both sound chips have their plus and minus points

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Surprised to hear this point. We're at a point where it's a all real instruments or really well emulated. Personally, I miss the more unique one of a kind videogame sounds and music off unique console sound chips and the creativity they've inspired. Even Yuzo Koshiro misses making music like this. Seems like everything is created in a studio and streamed off the CD these days.

I've come to think that if the two consoles' strengths could be combined we'd have the ultimate 16 bit box. If the SNES could make games run as fast as the MD while still looking as pretty as they do (transparencies in particular enhance things I reckon) you'd have had some really great looking titles.

Every SNES game I have played (not that many, admittedly) has sounded nice, but muffled sometimes; but it has to be admitted that it does, in general, create better sounding music than the MD in terms of all round realism. Most instruments sound more real.

That is not to say it is intrinsically better than how the MD sounds, which generates music quite differently and personal opinion counts for a lot when comparing multiplats (MK springs to mind, SNES is more faithful to the arcade, but the MD sounds really really ace. This thread is good... http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ack-ever/page2). I think that SFII games illustrate this the best; it really does sound better on SNES, even though the MD version sounds fairly good.

Imagine a machine that sounded as clear as a lot of MD games but sampled as nicely (most of the time) as the SNES.

I may actually have just described the PlayStation, making all of this a pointless read! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKRNOWCUDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XydJ8sF4AJU

One of the best SNES songs, the same song covered by currently the best (IMO) YM2612 composer (Hi Gecko!).
A lot closer than you'd think.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Alpha 2 and Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition are pretty much the only two I care about. Do you not hear the off key instruments in SNES games though? It has been long enough that I was wondering if I just thought the "right" key was just one version.

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Now and then I do, but it's not like some of that is getting drowned out by all of the noise being made by the fighters in SFII. It's not like I don't also hear it in the arcade game and on the Genesis. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me.

Let me ask you this. How can you not notice the broken rhythm in the arcade and Genesis versions of Street Fighter II?

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Originally Posted by cleeg

I've come to think that if the two consoles' strengths could be combined we'd have the ultimate 16 bit box. If the SNES could make games run as fast as the MD while still looking as pretty as they do (transparencies in particular enhance things I reckon) you'd have had some really great looking titles.

Every SNES game I have played (not that many, admittedly) has sounded nice, but muffled sometimes; but it has to be admitted that it does, in general, create better sounding music than the MD in terms of all round realism. Most instruments sound more real.

That is not to say it is intrinsically better than how the MD sounds, which generates music quite differently and personal opinion counts for a lot when comparing multiplats (MK springs to mind, SNES is more faithful to the arcade, but the MD sounds really really ace. This thread is good... http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ack-ever/page2). I think that SFII games illustrate this the best; it really does sound better on SNES, even though the MD version sounds fairly good.

Imagine a machine that sounded as clear as a lot of MD games but sampled as nicely (most of the time) as the SNES.

I may actually have just described the PlayStation, making all of this a pointless read! :)

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PlayStation and Saturn. That's why I've never considered getting MKIII for either of the 16-bit consoles, since the PlayStation and Saturn can pretty much copy any sound that an arcade machine can produce.

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Originally Posted by sheath

The sad truth is Barone and I were friends and all of this is the worst kind of bullshit.

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You were and stilll are the one in complete control of the entire situation. Your behavior and actions in all these hardware debates is what has caused the situation. If you can't deal with the possibility of learning that your favorite systems aren't quite as amazing as you think they are, then don't participate in those discussions. If you can't deal with learning something new that changes your perception of what these companies actually did back in the 80s and 90s, then don't participate in those discussions either.

You are the one who decided to lash out and attack myself, Barone, and others for simply replying to your statements with "Hold on, that's not right. This is the truth of the matter and here's the raw facts to back it up." You were the one who decided that after 2 years of being gone to make one of your first posts be flinging shit at Barone and I for no reason. Don't try to be the victim here.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Surprised to hear this point. We're at a point where it's a all real instruments or really well emulated. Personally, I miss the more unique one of a kind videogame sounds and music off unique console sound chips and the creativity they've inspired. Even Yuzo Koshiro misses making music like this. Seems like everything is created in a studio and streamed off the CD these days.

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I really don't agree with that at all . The Mega CD had some fantasic music thanks to the CD drive (Ecco is so much better onthe Mega CD thanks to the sound alone) and I loved the 32/128 bit generation of music where we at last started to get enough channels to really push music in games .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxtl3jI39g&index=1&list=PLLXc9lTSYQhlc2FE PjhPJ4aGHxPoIL7xG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_JiuEM-CmQ&list=PL279CF49D06E01994&index=8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQwo6FYKses&index=5&list=PLA76C65E2878C189 0



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMWwqwRggQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzMbiIU7Pg&list=PL8_dFsE09Vx9tu1fGToC_ujQ TZ4c_G7Us&index=6

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Originally Posted by gamevet

PlayStation and Saturn. That's why I've never considered getting MKIII for either of the 16-bit consoles, since the PlayStation and Saturn can pretty much copy any sound that an arcade machine can produce.

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I don't care about the PS1 and Saturn ports (had the Saturn port of UKM3 back in the day too and didn't care for it at all). Much rather emulate the Arcade ports via MAME if I want a carbon copies of MK1-3 and without load times these days. At least the Genesis versions of MK3 is quite unique and gave me a great time back in those days.

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Originally Posted by cleeg

I've come to think that if the two consoles' strengths could be combined we'd have the ultimate 16 bit box. If the SNES could make games run as fast as the MD while still looking as pretty as they do (transparencies in particular enhance things I reckon) you'd have had some really great looking titles.

Every SNES game I have played (not that many, admittedly) has sounded nice, but muffled sometimes; but it has to be admitted that it does, in general, create better sounding music than the MD in terms of all round realism. Most instruments sound more real.

That is not to say it is intrinsically better than how the MD sounds, which generates music quite differently and personal opinion counts for a lot when comparing multiplats (MK springs to mind, SNES is more faithful to the arcade, but the MD sounds really really ace. This thread is good... http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ack-ever/page2). I think that SFII games illustrate this the best; it really does sound better on SNES, even though the MD version sounds fairly good.

Imagine a machine that sounded as clear as a lot of MD games but sampled as nicely (most of the time) as the SNES.

I may actually have just described the PlayStation, making all of this a pointless read! :)

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And you also just described the 32x;). SNES had the luxury of coming out years after the megadrive, it should have absolutely demolished the MD graphically etc, but thankfully it didn't. Since the snes uses fx chips in many games I think it's perfectly fair that the 32x and sega cd add ons be considered fair play. Neither add on works on it's own, they are enhancers for the MD. So when I read all the ignorant snes worshipping comments made by 14 year olds on youtube saying the snes sounds godly and the genesis causes ear bleed I take solice in the fact that they are complete and utter noobs (or pubes as they are sometimes referred to as). Tower of power has way more power than snes. And better controllers but that's obviously just my opinion. But for my tastes I'll prefer even a vanilla non powered up genesis's sound over snes, but what else can we expect from a total sega fuckboy like me. I will concede that there are games w amazing music on both machines.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I really don't agree with that at all . The Mega CD had some fantasic music thanks to the CD drive (Ecco is so much better onthe Mega CD thanks to the sound alone) and I loved the 32/128 bit generation of music where we at last started to get enough channels to really push music in games .

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32 Bit era still had a lot of music off internal sound chip.

Wow never heard of Plok but that is a hot track for the snes! I love hearing snes game songs played on the genesis, I think videos like that really help educate people that the genesis's sound is not bad at all just widely misunderstood. I usually prefer the genesis version to the snes original, but I gotta give that track off Plok to the snes. Altho the last half of the MD version started regaining ground very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

And you also just described the 32x;). SNES had the luxury of coming out years after the megadrive, it should have absolutely demolished the MD graphically etc, but thankfully it didn't. Since the snes uses fx chips in many games I think it's perfectly fair that the 32x and sega cd add ons be considered fair play. Neither add on works on it's own, they are enhancers for the MD. So when I read all the ignorant snes worshipping comments made by 14 year olds on youtube saying the snes sounds godly and the genesis causes ear bleed I take solice in the fact that they are complete and utter noobs (or pubes as they are sometimes referred to as). Tower of power has way more power than snes. And better controllers but that's obviously just my opinion. But for my tastes I'll prefer even a vanilla non powered up genesis's sound over snes, but what else can we expect from a total sega fuckboy like me. I will concede that there are games w amazing music on both machines.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Thief

I don't care about the PS1 and Saturn ports (had the Saturn port of UKM3 back in the day too and didn't care for it at all). Much rather emulate the Arcade ports via MAME if I want a carbon copies of MK1-3 and without load times these days. At least the Genesis versions of MK3 is quite unique and gave me a great time back in those days.

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I only use MAME if it's the best option. Playing arcade games on a LCD<CRT with a Playstation, Saturn or Xbox.

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Originally Posted by Thief

32 Bit era still had a lot of music off internal sound chip.

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So does this gen, so it did for the XBox gen and so on . Difference with the 32-bit era was thanks to CD storage and far more powerful sound chips and far far more channels for sound and samples . Sound really became important to games and more money and staff were put on the sound desgin .

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

And you also just described the 32x;). SNES had the luxury of coming out years after the megadrive, it should have absolutely demolished the MD graphically etc, but thankfully it didn't. Since the snes uses fx chips in

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FX was used in a handful of games , the DSP was more widly used.

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it's perfectly fair that the 32x and sega cd add ons be considered fair play.

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You're having a laugh right ? . 32X cost £170 and the Mega CD £299. Think its ridiclous to compare them to Cart having some extra chips to help with functions myself . Most of the better looking and sounding games didn't need extra hardware and were able to do stuff the Mega Drive would have a hard time handling if at all

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

Wow never heard of Plok but that is a hot track for the snes! I love hearing snes game songs played on the genesis, I think videos like that really help educate people that the genesis's sound is not bad at all just widely misunderstood. I usually prefer the genesis version to the snes original, but I gotta give that track off Plok to the snes. Altho the last half of the MD version started regaining ground very quickly.

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Its not being fair. Comparing what someone is able to do with a Mega Drive sound chip 2day to a Snes game made in 1994 is just unfair . Given the advancements in 2day technology, know-how and knowledge base for old consoles ECT . There was an Interview with one of the sound staff from Prope and he said that you can download a free programme to compress your game file in seconds; and where you can compress the file to less than half its size with no loss in quality . To do something similar that in the Mega Drive days would have taken him weeks of solid coding and where the results wouldn't have been anyway near as good or the file size anywhere near as small and there was no online knowledge base to speak off.

Its far better in giving a real picture and a complete fair picture to compare games made back inthe day imo

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

2day [...] 2day [...]

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Are you really that lazy to type one extra character?

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I only use MAME if it's the best option. Playing arcade games on a LCD<CRT with a Playstation, Saturn or Xbox.

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True that. But you can hook up a PC to a CRT TV.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Its not being fair. Comparing what someone is able to do with a Mega Drive sound chip 2day to a Snes game made in 1994 is just unfair . Given the advancements in 2day technology, know-how and knowledge base for old consoles ECT . There was an Interview with one of the sound staff from Prope and he said that you can download a free programme to compress your game file in seconds; and where you can compress the file to less than half its size with no loss in quality . To do something similar that in the Mega Drive days would have taken him weeks of solid coding and where the results wouldn't have been anyway near as good or the file size anywhere near as small and there was no online knowledge base to speak off.

Its far better in giving a real picture and a complete fair picture to compare games made back inthe day imo

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Yeah. The Genesis version of Street Fighter II: SCE has an additional 4Mb of cart space (over Turbo), which should provide more room for better voice samples, but the way that sound code is written for the console seems to be less efficient than the way that SNES games can create a sound.

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Originally Posted by Thief

True that. But you can hook up a PC to a CRT TV.

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My old VVGA monitor is rotting away in the attic, and the PCs I have are using expensive video cards that use DVI and HDMI outputs. I could downscale my video output to 720p to hook my main gaming rig to my HD CRT, but I'd much rather use the best 6 button gamepad on the planet (for fighting games) with my Saturn. I just finished playing UMK3 on the Saturn and the controls were ultra-responsive, while playing MKII on the SNES is frustrating, even with the Capcom fighting stick.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Are you really that lazy to type one extra character?

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Yes when posting on my mobile phone sorry

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Yeah. The Genesis version of Street Fighter II: SCE has an additional 4Mb of cart space (over Turbo), which should provide more room for better voice samples, but the way that sound code is written for the console seems to be less efficient than the way that SNES games can create a sound.

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That sounds like interesting info. And would explain why maybe the two Genesis SFII games had +4 & +8 Mb extra cart space. But then MK3 & UMK3 for Genesis & SNES (both by Sculptured Software this time around) are the same cart size, yet Genesis has more voice samples for both, double the background maps for UMK3, more animation, better sounding music (though mono)... Earthworm Jim has one more stage, two extra tunes at least, extra voice samples, better sounding music and more animation frames too... I hear similar about Toy Story... and Capcom has been proven to be pretty shit at coding and/or being in-efficient at SNES and Genesis coding...

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Originally Posted by gamevet

My old VVGA monitor is rotting away in the attic, and the PCs I have are using expensive video cards that use DVI and HDMI outputs. I could downscale my video output to 720p to hook my main gaming rig to my HD CRT, but I'd much rather use the best 6 button gamepad on the planet (for fighting games) with my Saturn. I just finished playing UMK3 on the Saturn and the controls were ultra-responsive, while playing MKII on the SNES is frustrating, even with the Capcom fighting stick.

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Last time when I still had a CRT TV before my last move, I hooked up my PC to it as a secondary screen via an DVI>S-Video thingy my PC buddy got for me.

I'm not a fan for the SNES controller for fighters like those two either. Not of fan of using SNES controller shoulder buttons period (especially the left side one).

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

FX was used in a handful of games , the DSP was more widly used.



You're having a laugh right ? . 32X cost £170 and the Mega CD £299. Think its ridiclous to compare them to Cart having some extra chips to help with functions myself . Most of the better looking and sounding games didn't need extra hardware and were able to do stuff the Mega Drive would have a hard time handling if at all

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I am. What's cost have to do with anything? If you wanted to be thrifty you could get a tiger handheld instead of a snes or genesis, but if you wanted the best looking, sounding, and playing console of that generation sega had you covered. True there were probably some games on snes that the vanilla genesis may have had a hard time handling, but the snes sure couldn't do very good ports of alien soldier, thunder force 4, etc so it's a wash. It's just a bummer the SCD and 32x never fully realized their potential with a good robust library of arcade style games. If they had I'm sure nintendo would have countered and launched their own cd add on that they were planning. It would have been interesting.


Also didn't nintendo purportedly do shady deals w third party companies behind the scenes to have them intentionally do shittier ports of games on the genesis to make the snes seem better? Not sure if there is any truth to that, but if true I think it sort of makes comparing the modern recreations of songs people are making w the genesis sound chip today a little more forgive able for comparison's sake, as nintendo was basically knee capping sega. I'm not sure I get how these supposed modern compression techniques you speak of somehow means it's cheating, since they aren't making a new song to compare but are just replaying the notes of the snes song on the MD sound chip, unless I'm missing something. A better counter would be to show what modern enthusiasts are doing with the snes sound chip. I'm sure there are examples. Anybody recreate genesis music on snes? Otherwise we are basically just comparing the strengths of individual composers and designers from bitd, not the hardware itself. And we all know how ruthless nintendo was about locking up talented companies from their competitors. I can't believe nintendo was able to legally get away with their practices back in the 80's/90's.

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Originally Posted by sheath

The sad truth is Barone and I were friends and all of this is the worst kind of bullshit.

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Well, let's take a closer look on the replay:

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Originally Posted by sheath

You asserted that "friendship," and I went against my better judgement having seen you rail on people in this forum already.

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Originally Posted by sheath

And yes, you asserted that "friendship". You asked me to let you onto my facebook when I don't let any of these internet types have access to anything personal, and you used the term "friend" all of the time, which here in Texas is always a sign to watch out.

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And what about this?

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Originally Posted by sheath

But until you can at least admit you have been rude, I will continue to ignore you.

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Originally Posted by sheath

I have not lied, not once.

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Let that sink in for a moment. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKRNOWCUDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XydJ8sF4AJU

One of the best SNES songs, the same song covered by currently the best (IMO) YM2612 composer (Hi Gecko!).
A lot closer than you'd think.

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Awesome!
I've never listened to that game's OST before. Thanks for sharing (no rep sending allowed yet :().

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Now and then I do, but it's not like some of that is getting drowned out by all of the noise being made by the fighters in SFII. It's not like I don't also hear it in the arcade game and on the Genesis. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me.

Let me ask you this. How can you not notice the broken rhythm in the arcade and Genesis versions of Street Fighter II?

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The music always sounded off to me, in any version. The SNES version always sounded weird to me. FM seemed better to me I guess. Isn't all of Capcom's 16-bit stuff Mono too?

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Originally Posted by Barone

Well, let's take a closer look on the replay:
And what about this?
Let that sink in for a moment. ;)

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What exactly caused you to turn on me again? Is it my lack of proper research in your estimation, or is it really just that Sony sucks and always has sucked? They actively put legitimate gaming companies out of business, how does this not offend you?

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

I am. What's cost have to do with anything?

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I hell of a lot . NCL since the NES days used extra chips in their Carts to help certain games . NCL obvioulsy thought that was more cost effective than putting the chips inside the consoles in the 1st place

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True there were probably some games on snes that the vanilla genesis may have had a hard time handling, but the snes sure couldn't do very good ports of alien soldier, thunder force 4, etc so it's a wash

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F-Zero a Snes launch title and a standard cart was doing stuff that the MD drive just couldn't handle , there's plenty more . Sure I agree with on Thunder Force IV etc that's why I always say all systems have their plus and minus points

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Also didn't nintendo purportedly do shady deals w third party companies behind the scenes to have them intentionally do a shittier ports of games on the genesis to make the snes seem better?

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That's the stuff of myth and fanboy nonsense . Funny too as many SNES fanboys make out EA set out to make their Snes ports of Mega Drive games far worse

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Originally Posted by sheath

What exactly caused you to turn on me again? Is it my lack of proper research in your estimation, or is it really just that Sony sucks and always has sucked? They actively put legitimate gaming companies out of business, how does this not offend you?

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Please, tell us more about how Sony has personally slighted you.

Why couldn't the genesis do F zero exactly? Not so sure about that. Great NCL used chips.... Not sure how that's here or there but alright. And simply stating "a hell of a lot" leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied. If you wanted to pinch pennies you could get a used 32x, or steal one for free. Either way the result is you have a sega console that could theoretically beat the snes like a red haired step child in terms of music/graphic capabilities. Pretty good for a console born in the eighties.

It kind of can do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNGNh8JDcQ

Now the SNES still does it better (Full resolution at 60fps vs half resolution at ~27-30fps on the Genesis) but the Genesis can technically do it.

^That is awesome! It just needs an fx chip for additional blast processing then it's on! I thought snes sucked at resolution? How is f zero pulling that off?

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

Why couldn't the genesis do F zero exactly? Not so sure about that. Great NCL used chips.... Not sure how that's here or there but alright. And simply stating "a hell of a lot" leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied. If you wanted to pinch pennies you could get a used 32x, or steal one for free. Either way the result is you have a sega console that could theoretically beat the snes like a red haired step child in terms of music/graphic capabilities. Pretty good for a console born in the eighties.

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So a serious, realistic and fair debate is out of the question is it ? . Carry on with your fanboy nonsense

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, my apologies TA!