Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

It kind of can do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNGNh8JDcQ

Now the SNES still does it better (Full resolution at 60fps vs half resolution at ~27-30fps on the Genesis) but the Genesis can technically do it.

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How about we stop it with these tech demos done with today's knowledge base and tools sets? and let's compare games made at the time the consoles were out and with 90's levels of development tools, development time limits , 90's levels of development support , cart limits and so on in the interests of fairness . The Mega Drive didn't have hardware for scaling or rotation , otherwise they would be no need for the ASIC chip inside the Mega CD for starters so any major Snes Mode 7 would be though for the MD to handle - why is that so hard for people to accept , just like any major VDP 2 Saturn effect is tough for the PS to handle .

I really don't know why people get so worked up about pointing out hardware shortcomings of any system myself .

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Please, tell us more about how Sony has personally slighted you.

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I agree with Sheath. Sony was a great blow to gaming in my opinion. Wish it was still just Nintendo and Sega.

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Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer

^That is awesome! It just needs an fx chip for additional blast processing then it's on! I thought snes sucked at resolution? How is f zero pulling that off?

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It's being done entirely in software on the Genesis where as the SNES has hardware support for it. So the Genesis is rendering at half resolution for it where as the SNES is running at it's standard 256x224 resolution.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

How about we stop it with these tech demos done with today's knowledge base and tools sets? and let's compare games made at the time the consoles were out and with 90's levels of development tools, development time limits , 90's levels of development support , cart limits and so on in the interests of fairness . The Mega Drive didn't have hardware for scaling or rotation , otherwise they would be no need for the ASIC chip inside the Mega CD for starters so any major Snes Mode 7 would be though for the MD to handle - why is that so hard for people to accept , just like any major VDP 2 Saturn effect is tough for the PS to handle .

I really don't know why people get so worked up about pointing out hardware shortcomings of any system myself .

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It's not like you couldn't do it with the tools back then either. It's just doing the approach in software. There are existing Genesis games from back then that do mode 7 like effects in software too. Puggsy does the Bowser style effect for one of it's bosses, and it does it even better than the SNES since it can still have a background layer:

@4:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVL58fTAFQ

So why shouldn't something like what homebrew people have done count? It's not like the hardware magically got better or something.

^Not to mention the way the court turns in Dick Vitale's Awesome Baby! College Hoops. Plus wasn't the unreleased Wack Races a Mario Kart clone?

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Originally Posted by Thief

I agree with Sheath. Sony was a great blow to gaming in my opinion. Wish it was still just Nintendo and Sega.

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Nintendo made that monster, and Sega allowed them to come in(along with Microsoft later). I'm not upset though. Sega's properties can now be distributed to more than the one console. I mean, chances were Sega were never getting back into the handheld market anyway, so isn't it better to have the games there that you get nowadays? Though I could see them supporting tablets/phones even if they were still in the hardware market. They made PC ports for a lot of their games back in the day. Plus, with Sonic in 2 generations of Smash Bros., and the olympic games series, you can effectively take Sega and kick Nintendo's ass :p(or vice versa, but it's still an option nowadays).

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

How about we stop it with these tech demos done with today's knowledge base and tools sets? and let's compare games made at the time the consoles were out and with 90's levels of development tools, development time limits , 90's levels of development support , cart limits and so on in the interests of fairness . The Mega Drive didn't have hardware for scaling or rotation , otherwise they would be no need for the ASIC chip inside the Mega CD for starters so any major Snes Mode 7 would be though for the MD to handle - why is that so hard for people to accept , just like any major VDP 2 Saturn effect is tough for the PS to handle .

I really don't know why people get so worked up about pointing out hardware shortcomings of any system myself .

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When you're trying to prove what was possible, you've got to be able to take a consoles full potential into account, which now includes what fan programmers can do with it. It's no different than a 4 gigabyte chip to run Road Avenger on the SNES, except what's done with the Genesis is done on stock hardware.

As for voice sample clarity, whatever Stef did is all in an ips patch, which means it's a re-write of coding. All it would have taken for Capcom was to have had someone of Stef's level to do the same. Otherwise explain how the hardware itself is at fault when companies like Data East, Treasure, and even Sega's own E-SWAT have clear voice samples.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

How about we stop it with these tech demos done with today's knowledge base and tools sets? and let's compare games made at the time the consoles were out and with 90's levels of development tools, development time limits , 90's levels of development support , cart limits and so on in the interests of fairness . The Mega Drive didn't have hardware for scaling or rotation , otherwise they would be no need for the ASIC chip inside the Mega CD for starters so any major Snes Mode 7 would be though for the MD to handle - why is that so hard for people to accept , just like any major VDP 2 Saturn effect is tough for the PS to handle .

I really don't know why people get so worked up about pointing out hardware shortcomings of any system myself .

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In all honesty, I originally thought F-Zero was the future of 16-Bit racing games. Little did I know it would become the bane of 16-Bit racers. I've got the racing game roms organised and categorised for my fave 8-16 Bit consoles, and I can't believe how bad these mode 7 racers seem on SNES. Seems like the only good mode 7 racers are like F-Zero, Mario Kart and Street Racers. That's it.

And I never played other mode 7 games like Pilotwings (but assume that one is good, but it's only possible via cheater chip). But all other times I seen it in games it seems like just a marketing afterthought "Hey, mode 7 is all the rage. Lets create some quick and BS so we can show and write about it at the back of the box and in press." ie. Terminator VS Robocop, Turtles in Time, and Contra 3 mode 7 levels suck balls. What a waste of dev time and cart space.

Even mode 7 wannabe's like Axelay would have been better off without that effect and more like Life Force and Salamander 2 in my personal opinion.

So yeah, not having mode 7 wasn't a hardware limitation going by the mode 7 SNES games that used it.

I heard once that Nintendo basically forced you into using Mode 7 on your games because the Megadrive couldn't do it.

Figured it looks impressive, but most of the time it's annoying and gets in the way. Those Contra 3 levels are horrible.

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Originally Posted by sheath

The music always sounded off to me, in any version. The SNES version always sounded weird to me. FM seemed better to me I guess. Isn't all of Capcom's 16-bit stuff Mono too?

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No, CPS2 uses QSound.

If you're talking about the consoles, I do know that the Capcom intro always pans in the opening for SNES games.

From a technical perspective, I don't see anything all that special about F-Zero.
At the time there were far more complex racing engines out there. Floor rotation wasn't really something out of the Mega Drive's or even the Amiga's capacity.

The thing about F-Zero, IMO, is that it had a really good design, excellent presentation and perfect timing in its release.
It had the proper setting to make a flat scenario being perfectly acceptable.
It had great speed sensation to support its setting.
It had simple track design and handling mechanics to work with its speed sensation.
It had the required AI to make the track design really challenging and compelling.
It had distinguishable design for each AI-controlled vehicle.
It had a great soundtrack to make all that a very pleasant experience.
...

And for 1990, the year it was first released, the norm for arcade-ish racing games still was your average race-against-the-clock approach, with brain-dead traffic, indistinguishable opponents and real world/F1 world setting.
In terms of consoles it was even worse since most of the racing games were also failing to provide the speed sensation you would find in the arcades.




gasega68k's G-Zero requires on-cart RAM in order to run at 30 fps. But the quantity it requires would be perfectly fine for back in the days; just as the DSP chips used by many SNES games were also fine.

IMO, F-Zero design could work fine for the most part with a regular line scrolling-based engine (if well adjusted); Mario Kart was the SNES game that really expanded on the role played by a track design which relies on rotation capabilities.

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Originally Posted by sheath

Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all.

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Really? Thats why you've been away for 2 years and are still mad. Yeah I can tell how "not bothered" you are.

Oh btw keep those personal attacks coming. Makes you look really classy and grown up .. not.

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IMO, F-Zero design could work fine for the most part with a regular line scrolling-based engine (if well adjusted); Mario Kart was the SNES game that really expanded on the role played by a track design which relies on rotation capabilities.

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HuZero shows how a traditional line scrolling version of F-Zero would look, although I think it features realtime scaling.

https://youtu.be/HEp7niIP4Qw


Too bad he didn't make a version with competitors to race against.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

HuZero shows how a traditional line scrolling version of F-Zero would look, although I think it features realtime scaling.

https://youtu.be/HEp7niIP4Qw


Too bad he didn't make a version with competitors to race against.

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Or any sensation of speed.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

So why shouldn't something like what homebrew people have done count? It's not like the hardware magically got better or something.

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Because they are using today's knowledge base and thinking . Its not really fair to compare that to what was being developed in the early 1990's . Some brilliant coder got Tomb Raider working on the LCD screen of his printer - any developer think that was possible when Tomb Raider was launching in 1996 ? . Totally different mindset , tools and compression .

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It's not like you couldn't do it with the tools back then either. It's just doing the approach in software. There are existing Genesis games from back then that do mode 7 like effects in software too.

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That's more like it and Puggsy a great tech demo of Mega Drive Gfx and coding skill . Play the Mega CD version and you'll see even more impressive effects thanks to Hardware support for Mode 7 effects, same goes for Son Of Chuck (Chuck Rock 2) . But you got to accpet that having Hardware support allows the developer to do more . Play the Mega Drive version of Striker and play the Snes version . You think Soul Star, Batman Returns 3D sections were possible on the Mega Drive ?

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I heard once that Nintendo basically forced you into using Mode 7 on your games because the Megadrive couldn't do it.

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That's silly and like saying NCL forced N64 developers to use anti-aliasing, Z-buffering, trilinear filtering to make Saturn games look worse , or SONY forced PS developers to use half transparencies to make Saturn games look rubbish . Using a system hardware built in effects to make games look good , is why various effects were put into the Hardware in the 1st place

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Originally Posted by Barone

From a technical perspective, I don't see anything all that special about F-Zero.
At the time there were far more complex racing engines out there. Floor rotation wasn't really something out of the Mega Drive's or even the Amiga's capacity.

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It was way better than any Mega Drive effect one seen at the time and also had full 360-degree movement at 60 fps , something which any similar Mega Drive game lacked at the time (Street Racer for example ) . Mode 7 was a nice effect for home systems at the time . Axelay was another game that used Mode 7 to look impressive . It just a shame that so little developers made use of the ASIC chip inside the Mega CD, even the Mega CD title screen was handling effects that blew Mode 7 out of the water and most Mega Drive software effects

You what I liked the SNES handle? Slow-motion. :D

And did Axelay really use mode 7? I've been playing that game this past week, by the way. Looks like this one will be an unintentional 1cc because I need all the lives I can muster to brute force myself past that last stage and boss.

Axelay used mode 7 ? Where ?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Because they are using today's knowledge base and thinking . Its not really fair to compare that to what was being developed in the early 1990's . Some brilliant coder got Tomb Raider working on the LCD screen of his printer - any developer think that was possible when Tomb Raider was launching in 1996 ? . Totally different mindset , tools and compression .

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That's a bit silly. If we're comparing the hardware anything goes. Nothing is stopping you from bringing up SNES homebrew.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

But you got to accpet that having Hardware support allows the developer to do more .

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I never said it didn't. I simply said the Genesis has a strong enough CPU to brute force quite a bit of those effects through software to acceptable levels.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Play the Mega Drive version of Striker and play the Snes version .

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And? Other than the title screen I'm not really seeing anything that special. The Genesis version's effect actually looks a bit more interesting if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

You think Soul Star, Batman Returns 3D sections were possible on the Mega Drive ?

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Did I say they were? The ASIC in the Sega CD is more advanced than mode 7 in the SNES too. Though it's limited if I remember correctly by drive and bus speed so it can't go over 20-30fps. All I said was for something like F-Zero, the Genesis technically can do the effect. Not as well as the SNES, but it can do it to an acceptable level.

Mode 7 on the SNES didn't really impress me that much to be honest. You sacrifice all background layers for scaling and rotation. Mode 7 simply gives you Bowser in Super Mario World. The effect in F-Zero if I remember correctly is a combination of scaling/rotation and raster effects. Yeah it's interesting and it can do it at 60fps, but I kind of like the Genesis software implementation more simply because backgrounds aren't sacrificed to pull it off. And I find it much more impressive that the Genesis CPU is powerful enough to brute force that effect in software at playable levels.

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Originally Posted by Thief

You what I liked the SNES handle? Slow-motion. :D

And did Axelay really use mode 7? I've been playing that game this past week, by the way. Looks like this one will be an unintentional 1cc because I need all the lives I can muster to brute force myself past that last stage and boss.

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The Axelay effect is simply a VScroll exploit if I remember correctly from previous discussions. Sonic 3D Blast does it for the special stages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udmMdkXtN1A

The Overdrive tech demo does it too @2:27:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGDtViPngi8

There's also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2Yoz0INrI

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Originally Posted by midnightrider

How much of that can be said for the general expansion of gamers though? That one console alone sold as much as all 3 16-bit consoles combined(taking into account what was licensed, but distributed by other companies). So it should stand to reason that if the percentage of RPG gamers stays the same, it now becomes a much larger number, especially on that one console, in which a much more vast majority now all share. Whereas genre fans would have been split by the likes of Final Fantasy on one console, and Phantasy Star on the other, in the previous generation(as well as whatever the Japanese liked on the PC Engine).

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Final Fantasy VII sold several times more than what FFVI did in US, it's not just a matter of a general expansion of gamers available because the increase outstripped the market expansion in US.

As an aside one of the big misconception of the PS1/N64 generation is that PS1 sold more than 100M units mainly because PS1 targeted older gamers.
This isn't true.
Not only the concept is reverse that is game software makers could target older demographics because older gamers were already there, that is the ageing of the demographics ready to play on consoles was on a steady rise since late '70 due to the natural maturing of the medium and audience (which growing older stick to the medium while younger consumers joined the fry) but the big chunk of expansion didn't come from older gamers.
If one look at the big regional breakout of shipment data for NES and PS1 provided by Nintendo and Sony, one can easily spot that the big chunk of the increase came from a regional expansion factor and not just demographics in relatively mature markets like US and Japan (especially the latter).
The big expansion PS1 did that generation was due to target and maturing markets outside US and Japan, for example the many fractured european markets.

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Originally Posted by sheath

or is it really just that Sony sucks and always has sucked? They actively put legitimate gaming companies out of business, how does this not offend you?

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Those legitimate gaming companies put themselves out of business.
Aside from the many big mistakes committed by Sega, it was also unlucky that it was backing a trend in gaming which was rapidly declining.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

No, CPS2 uses QSound.

If you're talking about the consoles, I do know that the Capcom intro always pans in the opening for SNES games.

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I must have been thinking of the Genesis games then. Actually I know I was thinking of Sega's ports of Ghouls N Ghosts and Strider, but I am fairly certain the SF2 games and Punisher are Mono too.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

It kind of can do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNGNh8JDcQ

Now the SNES still does it better (Full resolution at 60fps vs half resolution at ~27-30fps on the Genesis) but the Genesis can technically do it.

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With way more memory than would have been economically feasible at the time, and still worse in every respect than the SNES.

That's why I don't like any attempts at mode 7 on the Mega Drive, it's doomed to always be worse and it's only useful to create fanboy flamewars. How about you bring me some actual 3D instead? Both consoles suck spectacularly at it :v

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I heard once that Nintendo basically forced you into using Mode 7 on your games because the Megadrive couldn't do it.

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Doubt it, but publishers probably did.

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Originally Posted by stu

Really? Thats why you've been away for 2 years and are still mad. Yeah I can tell how "not bothered" you are.

Oh btw keep those personal attacks coming. Makes you look really classy and grown up .. not.

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So, here is my attempt to reconcile with this group. Are you going to tell me you didn't troll my every post too? I really just want to talk about these good old games without all of that nonsense. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

That's silly and like saying NCL forced N64 developers to use anti-aliasing, Z-buffering, trilinear filtering to make Saturn games look worse , or SONY forced PS developers to use half transparencies to make Saturn games look rubbish . Using a system hardware built in effects to make games look good , is why various effects were put into the Hardware in the 1st place

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I never said 100% CONFIRMED TRUE, just an off-hand comment I seen once.

Considering Sony had the no 2D games ever policy for a little while I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it was true.

Unless you're just fucking with me, I can't even tell.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

That's a bit silly. If we're comparing the hardware anything goes. Nothing is stopping you from bringing up SNES homebrew.

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His whole argument is nonsense IMO.
We're talking about matrix multiplication and maybe some few other concepts from Linear Algebra; there's nothing new about that.
MD's DMA usage, since when is that a new thing?
Pre-calculated data, why is it any innovative?

It's actually the opposite, to be very honest. Developers nowadays know shit about Mathematics and how to optimize more complex calcs; they also know shit about low level programming or optimization in general. Most of the "magical" knowledge TA is referring to was "discovered" by reverse engineering 25-35 year old games.

Gimme a break.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Did I say they were? The ASIC in the Sega CD is more advanced than mode 7 in the SNES too. Though it's limited if I remember correctly by drive and bus speed so it can't go over 20-30fps.

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Despite of what TA says and dreams about, most of the games making heavy use of the ASIC were in the 10-15 fps range.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

The Axelay effect is simply a VScroll exploit if I remember correctly from previous discussions.

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The torus effect is H-Int based and even older hardware can pull it off (maybe you can go further on the MD/SNES by combining other stuff, but the basics are there):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2hKl7WOW-8

Mickey Mania and The Smurfs special stages also pull it off on the Mega Drive.

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Originally Posted by Folco

Those legitimate gaming companies put themselves out of business.

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No, man. It's Sony's fault that Sega decided to spend money in marvelous experiences such as the Activator.

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Originally Posted by Sik

With way more memory than would have been economically feasible at the time, and still worse in every respect than the SNES.

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Probably not economically feasible for 1990/1991 or maybe even 1992; but I don't see why it would cost more than those RPG carts with save RAM, for an example.

Whoever said Ghouls N Ghosts was way better then Super Ghouls N Ghosts, I'm very curious if could you explain your opinion on this matter.

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Originally Posted by sheath

So, here is my attempt to reconcile with this group. Are you going to tell me you didn't troll my every post too? I really just want to talk about these good old games without all of that nonsense. Do you?

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No one trolled you. You simply couldn't handle being given information that didn't match up with your preconceived bias. If I really wanted to troll you there are far easier, and much more hilarious, ways to go about doing that.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Whoever said Ghouls N Ghosts was way better then Super Ghouls N Ghosts, I'm very curious if could you explain your opinion on this matter.

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I much much much prefer Ghouls N Ghosts.

I never said that originally, but whoever did i'm throwing my hat into that ring too. Super GnG is a good game but GnG Classic (?) is an all-time great for me.

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Originally Posted by sheath

So, here is my attempt to reconcile with this group. Are you going to tell me you didn't troll my every post too? I really just want to talk about these good old games without all of that nonsense. Do you?

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Nobody trolled you. All Barone, Trekkies, myself and others did was to disagree with your narrative that Sony is the root of all evil and that Sega did absolutely nothing wrong EVAR. We then provided evidence in the form of facts to back up our points.
Since when is disagreeing with someone the same as trolling them?
TBH your behavior in the discussions is not what I would call saintly since when ever one of us would point out the fallacies in your narrative, you would respond with insults, name calling and other personal attacks (calling Barone and Trekkies names, accusing me of being an alt for them etc). A case of pot meet kettle indeed. If you want to talk about the old games without any of the "nonsense" (as you refer to it) then I'd suggest sticking to that instead of trying to rewrite history. Maybe then we can get back to a more positive discussion on our favorite games/systems instead of you crapping all over the ones you don't like.

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Originally Posted by Barone

Mickey Mania and The Smurfs special stages also pull it off on the Mega Drive.

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Sonic 3D's too (look at the background).

The special stages in Sonic 3D are quite a thing. They tried pretty hard to make it look like the floor is real 3D polygons, to the point of intentionally faking the pop up effect in the distance. Huh? o_O

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Originally Posted by Barone

Probably not economically feasible for 1990/1991 or maybe even 1992; but I don't see why it would cost more than those RPG carts with save RAM, for an example.

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64KB of static RAM? Are you sure? I don't recall RPGs using up that much memory (and even then they were still pretty expensive, though ROM sizes didn't help either).

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Originally Posted by Sik

64KB of static RAM? Are you sure? I don't recall RPGs using up that much memory (and even then they were still pretty expensive, though ROM sizes didn't help either).

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Some of the later released RPG games used 32 KB and a few used 64 KB of RAM.

Star Fox was released in 1993 and it used a Super FX chip, 32 KB of RAM and a 8 Mbit ROM.
Civilization released in 1994 had 32 KB of RAM and it used a 10 Mbit ROM.
Stunt Race FX was released in 1994 with Super FX chip, 64 KB of RAM and 8 Mbit ROM.
Super Mario World 2 - Yoshi's Island released in 1995 had a Super FX2 chip, 32 KB of RAM and 16 Mbit ROM.
...

F-Zero was a 4 Mbit ROM. Even if you needed/wanted an 8 Mbit ROM for the MD version, I feel like 64 KB of RAM wasn't really out of reach for a major 1993 release, for an example.

Now that we are in rom sizes, why was there some sort of ban from SoJ on 32 meg games? Why the SNES has way more bigger carts? I know MD could decompress art etc faster, allowing for more compression, but I'm guessing that doesn't explain that difference.

And a more general question: why were there way more expensive carts (in production costs: extra chips, more ROM) produced for the SNES than for the MD ? Weren't the licensing fees a bit lower on the Sega side? Why that SVP Virtua Racing pricing debacle? I never got that

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I much much much prefer Ghouls N Ghosts.

I never said that originally, but whoever did i'm throwing my hat into that ring too. Super GnG is a good game but GnG Classic (?) is an all-time great for me.

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It's true that the gap between these games is greatly reduced when you actually play both...

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Originally Posted by Thief

Whoever said Ghouls N Ghosts was way better then Super Ghouls N Ghosts, I'm very curious if could you explain your opinion on this matter.

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Because GnG is a proper game, instead a bullet time game Super GnG is? Seriously, I really like GnG games, but "Super" was pretty dissapointed from gameplay point of view.

I think SGnG is better because the double jump makes for better/challenging platforming, while the ability to fire up and down in GnG makes most sub-weapons superfluous (similar to why I prefer Bloodlines to SCIV).

Ok, I was just curious. Have some nostalgic memories of seeing someone play SGnG a few times before I finally got my SNES. Never did end up getting SGnG, and I kind of regret it now. Either way, the GnG series looks very promising and always mean to one day give some serious playtime.

I guess this is the best thread to post this, specially since it will annoy TA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2zBYzyDBxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaJghnqlarU

Gecko's life is pretty rough at the moment, if you guys want more undeniable proof of just how good the YM2612 really is, please consider helping the guy out:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=XSS2UJKTWQG3C

[QUOTE=Kamahl;758697]I guess this is the best thread to post this, specially since it will annoy TA.

Its just shows how superior the Snes sound chip was for type of music . We can all play the home brew game too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdJd_pnrObs

How about linking actual Mega Drive games made back in the day with music to rival the likes of these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7LCXEFl2Xw&index=6&list=PLF166E080673006A A



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cq1ZISOX6c&index=3&list=PLACBAB356CA64284 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRmYBDn8xw&list=PL2528F4AB5484907F&index= 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmmpZfRmBFk&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index= 4

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

I never said 100% CONFIRMED TRUE, just an off-hand comment I seen once.

Considering Sony had the no 2D games ever policy for a little while I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it was true.

Unless you're just fucking with me, I can't even tell.

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So a console manufacturer doesn't want a developer to use the feature set it put into the Hardware. RIGHT.......:daze:
Also, SONY having a anti-2D stance is another myth . If that was the case why even include 2D hardware inside the PS, never mind produce and fund 2D games . I think you find it was SONY America that had a aggressive stance against 2D games , Sony Europe and Japan not the case at all .

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That's a bit silly. If we're comparing the hardware anything goes.

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No it's not . It's only fair to compare games made at the time , not games tech demo made decades latter

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I simply said the Genesis has a strong enough CPU to brute force quite a bit of those effects through software to acceptable levels

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The same CPU inside the Atari ST and Amiga (and the ST CPU run faster too ) . The trouble with that is you're leaving it up the to skill of the developer then . It's better in almost all cases to have hardware support for various effects .

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And? Other than the title screen I'm not really seeing anything that special.

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In the Snes version you see logo zoom into to screen using Mode 7, then 2 player zoom in and then you'll see the pitch being rotated complete 360 and scale smoothly in . Totally gone inthe MD version and in-game the pitch effect isn't a patch onthe Snes . Both games are basic and not the best, but it shows when you put hardware suppport developer will use it , more offten that not .

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Did I say they were? The ASIC in the Sega CD is more advanced than mode 7 in the SNES too. Though it's limited if I remember correctly by drive and bus speed so it can't go over 20-30fps

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You imply the MD is so wonderful and powerful that it can do Mode 7 effects, when it can't. Sure the ASIC is limited thanks to it being an Add-on to the MD. But when used it allowed developers to handle far better effects than possible on the MD or Snes.

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The Axelay effect is simply a VScroll exploit if I remember correctly from previous discussions

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Its a scroll and mode 7 exploits as confirmed by the team in the making of Axleay : with the team wanted to build on the similar effect 1st used in Tunnel 3D section in Castlevania IV . I have complete admiration for Jon and Travels Tales coding skills and always have . The effect in Sonic isn't anywhere near as impressive and there no left or right movement onthe floor . Also Mode 7 effects are used on the bosses in Axelay , plus there's also colour layering effects too. It's really nice use of the system and a great 2nd gen game for the Snes Hardware.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Its a scroll and mode 7 exploits as confirmed by the team in the making of Axleay : with the team wanted to build on the similar effect 1st used in Tunnel 3D section in Castlevania IV .

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Interesting, do you have a source for this?

It's not mode-7. There is more than one overlapping background layer, and any emulator with a debugger will show mode-7 is not on. You have mode-7 sometimes in the horizontal sections for bosses and such.

Any interview that says the effect is mode-7 is incorrect.